Financial Services Bill

Lord Haskel Excerpts

3rd reading & Report stage
Monday 19th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe; in doing so, I declare my financial services interests as set out in the register.

My noble friend and I came into the House in the same autumn and, since 2013, we have both talked very much about distributed digital ID. It was pressing in 2013, so it certainly is in 2021. I will speak to all the amendments in this group briefly. I had pleasure in adding my name to my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe’s amendments; they are clear, succinct, short and to the point, and do the job. Does my noble friend the Minister agree?

My Amendment 30 merely seeks to flesh out some of the elements which must be considered if we are to have a successful distributed digital ID—the issues around scalability, flexibility and, crucially, inclusion. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that not only are these three issues vital to any distributed digital ID but that any ID should be predicated on the 12 principles set out in self-sovereign identity? Does she also agree that, because of the nature of this issue—as my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe pointed out—including issues around ID cards and Covid passports, there is a pressing need not only to move forward with this work but to have a public engagement to enable people to understand the issues and really get to grips with a system that can work for all?

My Amendment 31 seeks only to push the opportunity for the UK around open finance. We have seen the advantages open banking has brought; does my noble friend the Minister agree that open finance could be a boon for the UK, and could she set out the Government’s plans to enable this? I brought Amendment 32 forward in Committee so I will not dwell on it, except to seek a specific answer on subsection (2)(a) of the proposed new clause. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that we need to seriously consider the dematerialisation of UK securities at least at the same speed as that proposed in the EU? This is a competitive market; it is a race.

Finally, my Amendment 37E was brought forward simply to push the need for a review of access to digital payments. Digital payments are the future, accelerated by Covid, but, crucially, huge swathes of the population rightly rely—and must be allowed to rely—on cash. Does my noble friend agree that we urgently need a review of access to digital payments?

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

I call the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton. Lord Davies? I call the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I am delighted to support my noble friends who have tabled amendments in this group, particularly my noble friends Lady Neville-Rolfe and Lord Holmes of Richmond; they are very timely contributions to this debate. I am delighted to lend my support by co-signing Amendment 28 in the name of my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe and co-signed by my noble friend Lord Holmes of Richmond. My starting point is with my interest in developing digital ID and proof of age through digital verification. I speak as chairman of the Proof of Age Standards Scheme board.

For the reasons that both my noble friends have so eloquently given to the House this afternoon, time is passing, and we are living in a digital age; it is extremely important that this is recognised by all departments affected. I pay tribute to the work of the working group, of which PASS is a member, which is, I think, set up under the auspices of the Home Office and the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport. I hope that my noble friend the Minister will be able to confirm that the Treasury is also co-ordinating aspects of digital identification with these other departments. It is extremely important that, if it is the wish of my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe that we proceed initially with financial services, we co-ordinate with other aspects. It has been a huge success in terms of sales of alcohol and knives, as my noble friend expressed. In Scotland, where 16 year-olds are able to perform and purchase so many more services than 16 year-olds in the rest of the United Kingdom, the proof-of-age PASS card has been especially important in that jurisdiction.

With these few remarks, I hope that my noble friend will look favourably in particular on Amendment 28. It is important to proceed prudently but with some pace to make sure that we are ahead of the game. This is the time for digital identification—with the proviso that we have the ability to verify age. I absolutely agree with my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe that there is space for digital identification in the terms of the online harms Bill, but there is no reason to delay by not passing this amendment to the Financial Services Bill before us this afternoon.

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Amendments 37 to 37C not moved.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

We now come to the group beginning with Amendment 37D. Anyone wishing to press this or anything else in this group to a Division must make that clear in debate.

Amendment 37D

Moved by

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Amendment 37E not moved.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

We now come to the group consisting of Amendment 37F. Anyone wishing to press this amendment to a Division must make that clear in debate.

Amendment 37F

Moved by

His Royal Highness The Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Monday 12th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, my sympathies and condolences are with Queen Elizabeth, her family, friends and the many associates of her late husband the Duke. Bereavement is immensely difficult at any time, but more so now as it is compounded by the Covid restrictions and lockdowns.

I will look at the life of Prince Philip from a Northern Ireland/Ireland perspective. There is a reference in the Motion to the world-renowned Duke of Edinburgh’s Awards, which recognise youth endeavour, enterprise and outdoor recreational achievement. They are all about building the character and strength of young people. In Northern Ireland, many young people right across the community have benefited from that growing-up experience through this scheme. There are 401 active Duke of Edinburgh centres from 24 licensed organisations. Young people are currently taking part right across our divided community, through schools, churches, Boys’ Brigade companies, Girls’ Brigade companies, Ulster GAA, Scouts, Féile an Phobail, the probation board and the Young Farmers’ Clubs of Ulster. This is a representative proportion of the reach of these awards in Northern Ireland. It is worth noting that 6,018 young people started their programme in 2020 and 3,277 awards were achieved.

Up until 2017, Prince Philip used to come to Hillsborough to present these awards. There is also direct collaboration with the President of Ireland’s awards for young achievement and steadfast commitment to outdoor recreational participation, known as Gaisce, which was negotiated between President McAleese and Prince Philip some years ago.

For me, the most memorable event involving the Prince and the Queen was their official visitation to Ireland in May 2012, when they visited the Garden of Remembrance, dedicated to those who fought for Irish freedom, Croke Park, Islandbridge memorial, and then attended the dinner in Dublin Castle. I participated, as a party leader in Northern Ireland, in many of these events. This was a symbolic visit to many sites representing Ireland’s independence from Britain, but I have to say that both the Queen and Prince Philip fully participated in these visits, thus showing the duality of relationships, the necessity of parity of esteem, and a maturing of relationships between Britain and Ireland. Then there was the reciprocal visit by President Higgins to London—to Buckingham Palace and to Westminster itself in 2014.

It is worthy of note that the Taoiseach, Micheál Martin, said last week on the passing of the Duke of Edinburgh:

“The commitment of the royal family to Irish-British relations is an important part of the work we do together—and today we pay tribute to Prince Philip’s own important contribution”,


no doubt referring to that duality of relationships and building blocks of reconciliation through the awards scheme, and also that particular visit, among other things. I concur with that view. Those building blocks for reconciliation and parity of esteem that were demonstrated by the Queen and Prince Philip with President McAleese and, latterly, President Higgins, are required now more ever with the background of increased community and political tensions in Northern Ireland.

Working with the Heads of State in Ireland, the Queen and Prince Philip demonstrated that we have a common history and shared experiences of historic conflict, both on the island of Ireland and between these islands—including where the Prince’s family were deeply affected, through the murder of his uncle, Lord Mountbatten. The sad departure of Prince Philip after a long and fulfilling life should be, for us, a renewed opportunity to build relationships and promote reconciliation, thus sustaining that new bond of shared endeavour across Britain and Ireland.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

The noble Earl, Lord Shrewsbury, has withdrawn, so I call the noble Viscount, Lord Thurso.

Covid-19

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Thursday 28th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con) [V]]

I can certainly—[Inaudible.] Sorry, I seem to be having a battle with my unmute button. I can certainly assure my noble friend that that will not be the case. I hope I can assure him that more than 2,000 vaccination sites are now set up and 96% of the population in England live within 10 miles of a vaccination site. We are incredibly grateful to the GP surgeries, pharmacies and everyone helping to roll out the programme. I would like to mention, as the noble Lord did, the mass vaccination sites. They are operating from 8 am to 8 pm, but across our communities we have lots of ways in which people can access the vaccination. They can do so in the way most appropriate and easiest for them.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allocated for questions has now elapsed, so I am unable to call any more.

Covid 19: Winter Plan

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Privy Seal (Baroness Evans of Bowes Park) (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their questions. We have published our winter plan, the aim of which is to take us through to spring. I will first answer a few questions on the tier system, which both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord touched on.

We have adapted our tiers in this plan on evidence that gives us the best chance to control the virus, developing community testing with scientific advice from national advisers and local directors of public health. The noble Baroness is right: these tiers are designed to reduce and keep the R below 1 and to support areas moving down tiers. That is the aim of where we are going. I will move on to vaccines, mass testing and other elements that we think will play an important part as we move towards the spring and, I hope, some kind of normality.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness are absolutely right. To provide clarity and consistency, all tier restrictions have been standardised and will not be negotiated locally—so that is tiers 1, 2 and 3. Both asked about decisions on moving out of tiers. Decisions on the areas that go in and out of tiers will be based on a range of indicators, including: case detection rates in all age groups; case detection rates in the over-60s; the rate at which cases are rising or falling; the positivity rate—so the number of positive cases detected as a percentage of tests taken; and pressure on the NHS, including current and projected occupancy. Tiering allocations will be reviewed every 14 days, so there is a process and range of measures that will be published around which decisions will be made. While we appreciate that people would like to see firm thresholds, because areas and localities are different we will need to take into account local factors as well, but the indicators that I mentioned are key ones.

The noble Baroness rightly asked about local engagement on the basis that there is now some consistency among tiers. Absolutely, there will be local engagement. In particular, we will offer local authorities in tier 3 areas the opportunity to participate in a new community asymptomatic testing programme to help to find people who have the virus but do not show symptoms. Local authority directors of public health will be able to select their own approaches for delivering tests and priority testing targets and, as the noble Lord said, we hope that will mean that there is proper targeting of local areas, and some of the issues around take-up that he mentioned can be addressed through this local programme.

The programme will involve a six-week surge of testing capability to enable regular testing to be rolled out to the community in a way that works for the local authority with support from national government, including sufficient test supply, funding to cover support set-up costs and staffing test sites and support for extra contact tracing to break up clusters before they become outbreaks. That is where the additional funding that the noble Lord mentioned for test and trace will be focused.

The noble Baroness asked about contracts, and I can only reassure her that we will, of course, follow all the proper processes, procedures and oversights in awarding any future contracts.

In relation to Christmas, just as we came in discussions finished with the devolved Administrations, and they have reached some conclusions. Between 23 and 27 December, up to three households will be able to join together to form an exclusive Christmas bubble. The noble Baroness rightly asked about the clinically extremely vulnerable. Everyone must continue to take personal responsibility for spreading the virus and protecting their loved ones. For someone who is clinically extremely vulnerable, forming a Christmas bubble carries additional risk, but it will be a personal choice. People should take all precautions, including maintaining social distance from those they do not live with at all times, and they should consider seeing their bubble outside, where the risks are lower—but that will be a personal choice for people.

From 23 to 27 December, travel will be permitted between tiers and nations for the purposes of joining a Christmas bubble. People coming to or from Northern Ireland—and I see the noble Lord sitting there—will be permitted to travel a day either side of 23 and 27 December. I am sure there will be further information coming out, but that has come hot off the press.

In relation to care homes, we have launched testing pilots across 20 care homes, using PCR and the new rapid turnaround tests to allow up to two specific visitors to take two tests a week so they can do indoor visits to residents, including some physical contact. We intend to roll out this approach in a phased way across December, because we have made a commitment to provide tests to enable care home residents to have two visitors tested twice a week.

The noble Baroness and the noble Lord asked about vaccines, which is a key part of our route out by spring, we hope. It is about a combination of the mass testing that I have talked about and, obviously, the improved therapeutics that we have, which are having an impact when people are in hospital, but also vaccines. We anticipate that a number of safe and effective vaccines will be available in 2021, and we have taken steps to ensure that the UK has access to them. As everyone will know, we have agreements with seven separate vaccine developers, but we accept that the shift will not happen overnight, which is why spring is the timescale that we are looking towards.

The noble Lord, Lord Newby, asked about a vaccination certificate. I am not aware of that, but I will take that issue back and raise it. I reassure him that an enormous amount of preparation is taking place to make sure that we have adequate provision, transport, PPE and logistical experts to ensure that the rollout is successful. As he rightly says, the NHS is working from a great base—every year for the flu vaccine we have to roll out a vaccination programme, so we are starting from a good base.

I will attempt to answer the question from the noble Lord, Lord Newby, on interaction in places of worship. Social distancing rules should continue to be followed within places of worship, including during communal worship, which can of course now take place in all three tiers. That means that in areas under tier 1 restrictions, people should attend only in groups of up to six—the rule of six—and in tiers 2 and 3, people must not mix outside their household or household bubble. People should stay socially distanced. There should be closer distance only when absolutely essential to enable a faith practice to be carried out—for example, contact with a faith leader—and time spent in such contact should be kept to an absolute minimum.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

My Lords, we now come to the 30 minutes allocated for Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers.

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I am very happy to provide that reassurance to my noble friend. We are absolutely committed to ensuring rapid and equitable access to safe and effective vaccines, therapeutics and diagnostics, and we have committed up to £829 million of ODA to this. We have announced up to £500 million to the COVAX advanced market commitment, supporting 92 low and lower-middle income countries to gain access to a vaccine.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans has withdrawn, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth.

[Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, with regard to the Minister’s news regarding us being able to have up to three households together at Christmas, does the rule of six still apply and, if not, what will be the limit on people celebrating together? I spoke in the debate on the regulations to put us into lockdown, and asked the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, about the nonsense of children being able to play with their friends bubbling with them in school but not play with the same children out of school. He said he would definitely look into it, but since then I have heard nothing. Can I ask the Minister to please urgently pursue this? Whatever tier we are to move into next week, please can the Government ensure that children have this right to play with their school bubble-mates after school and at weekends?

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[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I reassure the noble and gallant Lord that a vaccine will be deployed across the whole UK. We are working closely with the devolved Administrations to ensure that it is deployed fairly. As I mentioned, the independent Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation will advise on which vaccines should be used and what the priority groups are. The initial advice is that the vaccine should first be given to care home residents and staff, followed by people over 80 and health and social care workers, and then the rest of the population in order of age and risk.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Haskel) (Lab)]

The noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, has withdrawn, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

I thank the noble Baroness for the Statement. The Prime Minister said that the scientific cavalry is now in sight. Can I be assured that the squadrons of cavalry will all arrive on the battlefields of the United Kingdom together, so that care home workers, clinical staff and all the rest will be vaccinated and have access to rapid testing at roughly the same time?

Brexit: Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord, Lord Robathan, read the letter from Lord Aldington to the Financial Times. He wrote that knowing Brexit is harmful yet insisting it be done is the essence of the classic Greek tragedy. The noble Lord will know that they all end badly.

How do we know this one will not end well? Because we have been told so by virtually every respectable economic organisation. The Bank of England, doing its duty, tells us that if we stay in the EU our public finances will be significantly better. That means that we would be better able to deal with our many pressing problems: the schools, the police, homelessness, lack of skills and training leading to low pay, infrastructure and, of course, the NHS. In his speech, the noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, pointed out that these problems affect the poorest in our society. They will pay the price, and that is why it will end badly. Even though some may have voted for Brexit, they did so on a false prospectus.

We are told that by being independent we will be able to expand our trade. Again, the conclusion of the Bank of England study is that there is virtually no value in our having an independent trade policy, so instead of finding fault with the message, the ardent Brexiteers damn the messengers—a bit more Greek tragedy.

The Prime Minister seeks to settle this by compromise. We all admire the Prime Minister’s doggedness and hard work and we admire the hard work of officials in achieving this compromise agreement, but when you examine it, as our EU Select Committee has, it may deal with our departure but it certainly does not deal with our future relationship.

It maintains frictionless trade and, we hope, jobs during the transition period, but it leaves fundamental questions about our trade relationship still to be settled, and they will be settled in a difficult atmosphere and may require several years of perhaps acrimonious negotiation. Our failure to make any progress on trade agreements elsewhere since the referendum does not augur well. The political declaration is full of fine words such as “explore” and “engage”, but there are no commitments. This is not really a compromise; it is just a poor deal lacking clarity.

Yes, there is impatience to do a deal, to get it over with, to provide a little certainty. I understand and sympathise with that view, as I particularly would if I were still running a business. It provides respite, it delays change and, yes, it may prevent us from crashing out, with all its awful consequences—a very important consideration, because most small businesses are still unprepared. Yet, attractive as that seems, it is short-sighted because, as many other noble Lords have told us, eventually when it comes to the important negotiations about our future relationship, we will be negotiating from a far weaker position than we are today—something for which future generations will not forgive us.

So what is to be done? At the time of the referendum, none of us knew how closely integrated we were with the EU, but neither did we realise that despite that close engagement, we have the freedom of our own currency. We are outside Schengen, so we could take more steps to control our borders, as my noble friend Lord Hain reminded us. We negotiated a valuable discount. Indeed, the gains of the proposed agreement hardly match the potential damage and cost of dismantling that closeness. My noble friend Lady Andrews spoke about that.

No deal is the link. We are faced with 16 weeks before we have to leave, the risk of crashing out, not knowing how we are to trade in future, a divided Government and, perhaps, a Parliament unable to decide, together with all the other insecurities. It is obvious that triggering Article 50 was both premature and ill advised. Let us not play out the Greek tragedy; let us stop the clock and think again. The Advocate-General of the CJEU thinks we can do this unilaterally. As no deal is the legal default, we must ask for a suspension of Article 50 and so ensure that it takes place within the next 16 weeks.

I was one of the 700,000 marchers calling for a second referendum, and nothing that has happened since has made me change my mind. Indeed, my view is strengthened by my grandchildren, like those of the noble Lord, Lord Ricketts, telling me that they now want a voice because, in their view, freedom of movement is a basic right. A second referendum after carrying out Gordon Brown’s proposals for deepening dialogue would help to both inform and unite the country.

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft: it cannot be undemocratic to give people the chance to think again, especially if their Parliament cannot decide. Perhaps a free vote in Parliament could be an alternative; I do not know.

That is why I agree with my noble friend’s Motion rejecting a no-deal outcome and stating that the current agreement would do us damage.

Role of the Lord Speaker

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Thursday 30th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, I think that I am going to be the odd man out, because in reviewing the role of the Speaker, I think that we should think in much broader terms than just Question Time in the House. Yes, the Speaker has a crucial role inside the Chamber, but there is a much more crucial role outside the Chamber. It has always seemed to me that this is of greater importance because we are an unelected House: we must reach out to the public so that the public understand the work and the role of this House.

When you google the Lord Speaker, yes, he is there on the parliamentary website and Wikipedia, with plenty of information about him and what he does, so that the public can learn about him, his job and responsibilities, but it needs a lot more. Already 100 of us are involved in the Lord Speaker’s “Peers in Schools” outreach scheme. We must add to this by reaching out to other places—universities and colleges, businesses, trade organisations and charities. I have rarely met a Peer who is not involved in a charity and I have always felt that an outreach scheme could both help the charities and say something about us. The Lord Speaker could maintain a public schedule of this involvement: it would be easily done on a website.

Of course, we receive Speakers and other parliamentarians from overseas, and once a year we reach out with our Chamber event for non-Members, but I think that the Lord Speaker has a particular role in outreach. It is a role that I would like to see further emphasised, to clearly enunciate our mission statement and sense of purpose. We are here to challenge the Government, to challenge the elected Chamber, to challenge proposed legislation. This is what defines us and by reaching out in this way, I think that the public will understand far better what we do and why we do it than they did through the recent BBC programmes.

Turning to the role of the Speaker inside Parliament, I agree with my noble friend Lord Grocott that his task must be to take a lead in maintaining the House’s reputation; yes, at Question Time, but also in other areas. Where I think the Speaker could intervene at Question Time might be by giving a signal when a Question or an Answer has been going on for too long, often much to the irritation of the House.

There is a case for the Speaker leading the way on modernising the House. Take dress, for example. Clerks in the other place now no longer wear wigs. Should we follow suit? Are we going to dress down? I think that this is the kind of thing on which the Lord Speaker could take the lead.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

His is not a wig.

[Lord Grocott]

It’s real.

[Lord Haskel]

He is lucky.

Thanks to several changes in recent years, the House now has a clearly established code of conduct, with powers to discipline or even expel Members who have broken the code. It is by being a champion for this code that the Lord Speaker plays an important role in maintaining the reputation of the House.

Over the years, we have taken small steps regarding behaviour, standards and procedure, sometimes initiated by the Lord Speaker. Question Time, obviously, is no exception. The role of the Lord Speaker in these matters does not necessarily need reform; what it needs is for the Speaker to be urged and encouraged in taking these small steps, judging when the House is ready for them.

The Speaker’s special role is to help maintain the correct balance between lawmaking and our civil rights and liberties. This is not easy. As times become more difficult, so the Speaker’s task becomes more difficult. At the same time, however, it becomes more necessary.

House of Lords: Size

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, when I became a life Peer, my children told me that being an unelected parliamentarian was a contradiction in terms. This is why outreach is such an important activity for me and for us. I have found that after explaining to schools, universities and other organisations the work that we do in holding Governments to account, in scrutinising and improving legislation, and in protecting the rights and lives of our fellow citizens, as well as our committee work, especially when the primacy of the other place is explained, most people support what we do. They are less concerned that we are unelected, that we have hereditary Peers and that some are part-timers. But the one thing that is not understood is our number and the cost—that rankles, and it tarnishes the work we do. That is why I think that the time is long overdue to do something about it. I welcome the debate and support the Motion.

It is not as if we are short of ideas. We have had a royal commission—in April 1999 I made a submission to it—four White Papers, draft Bills, and reports from Select Committees, academics, think-tanks, our own Clerk of the Parliaments and our own parliamentary groups. Generally, when it comes to numbers, what it boils down to is that we should be no larger than the other place—which is looking to reduce its numbers. Other noble Lords have detailed the mechanics, and I do not need to go through them, but as the noble Lord, Lord Low, and others have said, at the same time as we are reducing our numbers, the Prime Minister and the Appointments Commission must appoint only when there is a vacancy. There has to be a formula fixing the balance between the groups, perhaps relating to the result of the last three elections, but with no political majority and with some 20% to 25% on the Cross Benches. The important thing is that these measures should all happen together.

I too might add that much of the detailed work and analysis has already been done by Professor Meg Russell and her colleagues at the Constitution Unit at University College London. Conceivably, your Lordships could take things into their own hands, for example by introducing new Peers only when we think there is a vacancy. In a way, this happens with the Bishops. In addition, a move to the QEII Centre during R&R could force us to reduce our numbers by virtue of insufficient space.

I agree with other noble Lords that, to preserve our reputation, we have to get our own house in order, otherwise others will do it for us. We know that a large part of our population are discontented with mainstream politics. Some are discontented with us. Even the Prime Minister has called us bloated. Has the Leader googled “bloated House of Lords” recently? It is very instructive: there are pages of entries headed by the Prime Minister’s use of the phrase on 8 August, which can lead to fake news websites and a hashtag #CutTheBloatedLords, directing ridicule towards us. This can only damage our work and our reputation. Is this something that worries noble Lords? It does me. All the more reason why we have to get on with reforming our numbers. Let a Select Committee put a proposal to us, and soon.

Industrial Strategy

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Haskel]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have prepared their industrial strategy; and, if so, what it is.

[Baroness Mobarik (Con)]

My Lords, we are in the process of developing an industrial strategy that will embrace the opportunities of our new global role and upgrade our economy so it works for everyone. We are working with the breadth of British industry, local leaders, innovators, employees and consumers to deliver a successful strategy and create the conditions for future success.

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

The Prime Minister, too, has called for an economy that works for everybody and for business to be more responsible. Does the Minister agree that Section 172 of the Companies Act 2006, which requires directors and managers to have regard to the interests of employees, customers and suppliers, as well as shareholders, does just that? However, this section has never been enforced, so will the Government include enforcement of Section 172 in their industrial strategy and so carry out the policies of the Prime Minister?

[Baroness Mobarik]

I assure the noble Lord that the Prime Minister has made it clear that this new industrial strategy will work for everyone. We are looking at exactly those kinds of issues, such as increasing the scrutiny of our large public and private companies and enabling more informed corporate decision-making. We need to give employees and stakeholders a stronger voice in company boardrooms and we will consult fully with business investors, employee representatives and other stakeholders on the best way to do this. We will welcome your Lordships’ input.

Government and Parliament

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Thursday 9th June 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, like other noble Lords, I draw your Lordships’ attention to the declining quality of legislation presented to us. I raise this not only because we can do something about it—as the noble Lord, Lord Lang, suggested, we have to do something about it—but because, as standards decline, there is more opportunity to ignore or even break the rules that have been devised over time to protect the public good. I thank my noble friend for moving this Motion and for her sensible proposals.

Like my noble friend Lady Andrews, my concern arises from my past membership of the Delegated Powers Committee and my current membership of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Trefgarne. Both these committees have witnessed the decline of which I speak. When scrutinising secondary legislation, quite rightly we look not only at what it says but why it is required, how it is explained and what its impact will be—as my noble friend Lady Smith said, whether it is fit for purpose. More and more the committee has to draw your Lordships’ attention to inadequacies in all these aspects.

We recently drew your Lordships’ attention to an order relating to standards in the welfare of livestock. In that order, regulations were to be withdrawn in favour of a voluntary welfare code based on consultation, which the Minister said would improve welfare. But the consultation said exactly the opposite. When we pointed this out, Defra withdrew the order. Do the Government consider this a defeat or the House doing its work?

Almost one in five of the statutory instruments reported to the House in the previous Session was on the grounds of inadequate explanation. Indeed, the SI relating to tax credits which precipitated the report of the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, went back to the Treasury twice because of deficiencies in the Explanatory Memorandum—deficiencies in the explanation as to why it was necessary to use secondary legislation to introduce this new and significant matter.

Why is this not picked up in the other place? As has been pointed out in many reports, not least in the responses to the Strathclyde review, there are so many other pressures on Members of Parliament that they have little time to look at secondary legislation. Indeed, only selected parts of primary legislation are scrutinised, partly because virtually every major Bill is timetabled—not, I think, an invention of the Blair Government, as the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, suggested.

The noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, complained about the number of government defeats. Does he not agree that these defeats are not only because of disagreements over policy but because the legislation is incomplete, not properly prepared and not thought through, as most speakers in this debate have suggested?

What can be done? As other noble Lords have said, there is a Cabinet Office Guide to Making Legislation and instructions that should be given to parliamentary counsel. Are these instructions carried out? There is an understanding of the need for Green Papers, White Papers, draft Bills and a proposed schedule of secondary legislation. Is the problem lack of staff? Have we lost people with the expertise, analytical skills and experience in preparing legislation? Is this the result of budget cuts in the Civil Service?

One way of making up for this loss would be to do what lots of other people are doing—turn to artificial intelligence. As my noble friend Lady Smith mentioned, in the debate on the Queen’s Speech I drew your Lordships’ attention to this possibility and it created a lot of interest on social media. I made the point that the Government’s Science and Technology Facilities Council at Hartree has a five-year collaboration with Watson at IBM. These two organisations are at the forefront of developments in artificial intelligence. I pointed out that we already have machines that can read, prepare and analyse clauses in loan agreements and contracts of sale. With this experience and the excellence of the two organisations, it must be possible to digitalise and code the Cabinet Office instructions on legislation to at least make sure that every element of policy explanation and consultation is present. Having developed this technology, it could be offered for sale to virtually every other legislature in the world. I hope Ministers do not think for one moment that this suggestion is the start of the slippery slope of Ministers being replaced by robots—not at all.

That is just one way of dealing with the problem. Perhaps the Government have other ideas. We have to get the preparation and procedure of legislation right because, if we do not, the low standards will provide an opportunity for poor or bad legislation which will undermine our culture of strong, fair-minded and responsible government, scrutinised by Parliament to make it fair-minded. It will undermine those rules devised to protect the public good, and we will all be the losers.

House of Lords: Domestic Committees

Lord Haskel Excerpts

Monday 9th May 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel (Lab)]

My Lords, I add my thanks to those offered to the noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, and her committee for their report and congratulate them on it. A review of our governance is certainly long overdue and I agree with virtually all its recommendations. I particularly welcomed the opportunities the committee created to give evidence informally, which I think produced evidence from many people who would otherwise have kept silent.

The noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, and others spoke of the need for clarity in the way we are managed and governed. I agree. This will certainly help those involved in outreach who have to explain the practice of deciding many things “through the usual channels”, which is very opaque and hard to explain, as the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, indicated. I think the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, would agree with me that it is also good and accepted practice that together with governance should go stewardship: nurturing as well as controlling; looking after as well as managing.

It is with this in mind that I raise three points, the first of which is the position of staff. We are fortunate in having exceptional members of staff. Noble Lords who have worked on various Select and other committees will have experienced how much better these committees work once the barriers between staff and Peers are gradually removed. Noble Lords who have worked on management boards of companies, hospitals, schools and charities will have experienced this. Yet the report seems to indicate that it wishes to maintain this division of “them and us” even though it is unhappy about it. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace, reminded us, the report refers to the divisive seating arrangements at committee meetings, as did the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope.

Bearing this in mind, I suggest that staff members serve as equals on the senior committee, the Audit Committee and the services and finance committees, rather than just being present as advisers. This would not only be a step in modernising our governance and good practice but would also help to recruit and retain good staff—nurturing and managing.

My second point concerns the position of the senior deputy speaker. This is a sensible proposal because it represents the actual situation—the work that he or she will do. The report rightly makes the point that its remit is not about proceedings in the Chamber, but the post of senior deputy speaker also relates to this. So, in creating the post, it must be good governance to provide for the powers that the senior deputy speaker needs—powers to implement the decisions he or she may make. This matter has been debated in this House for years and, in creating this new post, now is the time to deal with it. It is part of governance. As we come more and more into the public eye, a solution becomes more pressing. In creating the post we need to define not only its terms of reference but its powers of enforcement, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, indicated—looking after as well as managing. The rest can be left to other reports.

My third point concerns the finance committee. The noble Baroness, Lady Shephard, refers in her paper to the committee being in the strange position of being responsible for our finances but unable to control our costs, particularly our variable costs. It is accountable but not responsible because the main variable costs are the number of Members and the days that we sit—costs outside its control. Most of the rest of our other costs are fixed. In every other organisation the finance committee has a say in controlling its variable expenditure—but not here. Surely an important part of modernising our governance is that a way needs to be found for the finance committee to influence these costs, and not just leave things as they are. Can the Leader of the House suggest how this may be done?

I again congratulate and thank the Leader’s Group for its report. It is full of common sense. I look forward to its implementation, both in terms of governance and stewardship.