Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 5th March 2025 Lords Chamber

Amendment 15 withdrawn.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, if Amendment 16 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 17 for reasons of pre-emption.

Amendment 16 not moved.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendment 17 agreed.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, if Amendment 18 is agreed to, I cannot call Amendments 19, 21, 22, 24, 32, 56 and 59 for reasons of pre-emption.

Amendment 18 not moved.

Product Regulation and Metrology Bill [HL]

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 26th February 2025 Lords Chamber

Amendment 2 in particular gives the House an opportunity just to say, “Enough—no more. Please go back and find a better way of proceeding in this vitally important area of law”. I beg to move.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I must inform the House that, if Amendment 2 is agreed to, I will not be able to call Amendments 3 and 4 by reason of pre-emption.

[Lord Anderson of Ipswich (CB)]

My Lords, I rise not to support the noble Lord, although it is a pleasure to follow him, but to address government Amendments 44 and 61 in this group, which I have signed, together with government Amendment 55, which will be for another day.

The Constitution Committee has already been kindly mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Sharpe and Lord Hunt. As a member of that committee, I register my appreciation for the fact that the Government have not only listened to the committee’s concerns and to those developed with impressive persistence by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee but have reacted constructively to them. The Henry VIII powers have been greatly reduced in scope and a credible explanation has been given for the small remainder. While the Bill continues to contain uncomfortably wide ministerial powers to make significant policy decisions, the broad duty of consultation in Amendment 61 is a welcome mitigation. The third part of the package—an extension of the affirmative procedure—is another positive step.

It might have been possible to go further, as the Delegated Powers Committee has rightly said. But, for my part, I would not go so far as to support the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, in his—I am tempted to say “wrecking” —Amendment 2. How to avoid the unconstrained use of excessively broad delegated powers is a problem that will not go away. It was raised by this Bill in a particularly acute form. The Government have grappled with it conscientiously and they deserve credit for that.

I have one final thought. It is rather a dry one, I am afraid, but what do you expect from the Cross Benches? I hope that, some day, the relevant committees of this House might have occasion to discuss the constitutional issues around framework Bills and delegated powers with the Government, not only Bill by Bill, as we do at present, but in a more structured and strategic way. Such discussions would give proper weight to the constraints on government but could also draw on the guidance provided by our committees and bodies such as the Hansard Society over many years. Perhaps the Minister will agree, after his generous and productive engagement on this issue, that the goal of a more consistent and principled approach on both sides of the fence might at least be worth pursuing.

Safety of Rwanda (Asylum and Immigration) Bill

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Consideration of Commons amendments
Wednesday 20th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, before I call Motion B, it may assist the House if I say that Amendment 3B in the name of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, would be in lieu of Lords Amendment 2, and that his Amendment 3C would be in lieu of Lords Amendment 3.

Motion B

Moved by

Operation Conifer

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Monday 11th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)]

My Lords, in October 2018, the then Home Secretary, Sir Sajid Javid, wrote to Lord Armstrong following a meeting with him and other Peers to discuss Operation Conifer and related matters. In that correspondence, the then Home Secretary wrote:

“As I think you would agree, the real issue here is not so much Operation Conifer itself, but the inconclusive nature of its findings and what you describe as ‘the cloud of suspicion that … continues to hang over Sir Edward Heath’s memory and reputation’ … it is not clear to what extent a further review of the existing evidence by a judge or retired prosecutor would resolve this. It remains my view that the handling of this is properly a matter for the local PCC and that it would not be appropriate for me to seek to persuade him how he should go about it”.


That largely remains the case, and the current Home Secretary wrote in answer to a Parliamentary Question on 7 February that

“the Government has no plans to commission a review of either the conduct of the investigation … or the findings”.

We are aware of no direct precedent for the type of review that my noble friend calls for. However, I am happy to ask officials to look into this to see whether it is either possible or viable, and I will report back in due course.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, is taking part remotely. I invite him to speak.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, why perpetuate the existence of these allegations by refusing to establish the independent review we have all called for for years? No one has ever produced a shred of evidence. The allegations are based on the early ranting of Carl Beech, a proven liar now languishing in prison. What possible benefit is to be gained by leaving on the table accusations that tarnish the reputation of a former British Prime Minister, over which historians will argue? I simply cannot understand the Government’s hesitation, and neither can anybody else I speak to.

Illegal Migration Bill

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

Amendment 156 withdrawn.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I must inform the House that if Amendment 156A is agreed, I will not be able to call Amendment 157 by reason of pre-emption.

Amendment 156A

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, I cannot call Amendments 159 and 160 by reason of pre-emption.

Amendments 159 and 160 not moved.

National Security Bill

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

I thank noble Lords for Amendments 43 to 45A, which seek to introduce reporting arrangements around disinformation and would require further controls on political process. I will set out in my closing remarks that it is the Government’s position that these amendments are not necessary. I look forward to the debate on these important issues but, for now, I beg to move.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble)]

My Lords, if Amendment 38 is agreed to, I will not be able to call Amendment 39 by reason of pre-emption.

Daniel Morgan Independent Panel Report

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)]

I again join the noble Lords, Lord Rosser and Lord Paddick, not only in paying tribute to the family of Daniel Morgan but in their appreciation of the work of the panel.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked when the Metropolitan Police Service will respond to the Home Secretary. The Home Secretary has undertaken to update the House by the end of the year, so the answer to his question is “swiftly”. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, talked about the obstruction in obtaining documentation. On the production of documentation and the funding required to carry out the work of the panel, the Home Secretary feels that the money and resources were sufficient to carry out the investigation. To date, some £16 million has been spent on this investigation.

On the relationship with the Home Office, I do not think that it has been smooth sailing. The previous Home Secretary, my right honourable friend Theresa May, set up the inquiry and it was never the intention that the relationship with the Home Office should be difficult. The Home Office has tried to assist the panel in whatever way it can.

I do not have to hand the terms of reference for the inspectorate, but I assume that that they would have been set up for the precise reason of ensuring that there is a full inspection. On the point of the term “and others”, I presume that one of the “and others” is the IOPC. On the duty of candour to be taken forward, as I said earlier, the Home Secretary will want to speak to the family and to progress matters after that.

I was asked by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, whether the Government will ensure that such a tragedy and miscarriage of justice never happen again and that the police cannot get away with impunity. I said earlier that Section 35 of the Inquiries Act 2005 makes it an offence to commit acts that are intended to have the effect of distorting, altering or preventing evidence being given to a statutory inquiry, although this was not a statutory inquiry, and I understand that. However, it is an offence intentionally to suppress, conceal or destroy a relevant document.

On recent measures, the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, talked about historic failings. The investigations may be historic, but police corruption is something that the Government have focused on. The introduction of the code of ethics in 2014 went some way towards correcting it, as did the establishment in 2015 of a specific criminal offence of police corruption. I recall, because I took the legislation through the House, that measures to ensure that officers cannot resign or retire to evade accountability were brought in in 2017, as well as a barred list to prevent dismissed officers rejoining policing.

There are also last year’s reforms to ensure that misconduct investigations are more transparent and swift. Much work has been done by national policing to tackle corruption, particularly through the national action plan on abuse of a position for a sexual purpose. I know that HMICFRS is currently undertaking a follow-up inspection of all forces’ counter-corruption and vetting capabilities and, as I may have said earlier, the Home Secretary has asked HMICFRS to ensure an urgent focus on the Metropolitan Police Service.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Non-Afl)]

We come now to the 20 minutes allocated to Back-Bench questions. I ask that questions and answers be brief so that I can call the maximum number of speakers.

Davies Commission Report

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kramer (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, it is sensible that the Liberal Democrat Benches should have an opportunity.

[Baroness Kramer]

My Lords, I declare that I have lived for 20 years under the Heathrow flight path and that I am a member of HACAN. Could the Minister tell us what the anticipated impact is on Manchester and Birmingham airports? The business plan for Heathrow includes a proposal to divert direct flights into those two airports to the third runway, which will have an impact on the northern powerhouse. In addition, my neighbours and I were told when the fourth terminal was approved that there would be no further expansion at Heathrow. There was then an effort to get a fifth terminal, and we were promised that there would be no expansion beyond the fifth terminal and no third runway. Within six weeks of planning approval, a campaign began for the third runway. Would the Minister tell me whether I am a fool to have believed those assurances from both the airport and the aviation industry, and whether I would be a fool to believe again promises about there being no plans for a fourth runway or indeed about the rather minor mitigations promised, many of which could have been implemented already?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Rowe-Beddoe (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I apologise, but we cannot have two noble Lords standing at the same time. The Cross Benches have not made a contribution as yet.

[Lord Rowe-Beddoe]

Could the Minister confirm that in his opinion Her Majesty’s Government have taken into adequate account the increased security implications for this capital city of increased flights over its administrative centre?

Queen’s Speech

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd June 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Best (CB)]

My Lords, I am delighted to follow the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, and I congratulate him on a very significant maiden speech. After a distinguished career in local government, he was an outstanding chief executive of the Homes and Communities Agency before going on to be both Permanent Secretary at the Department for Communities and Local Government and head of the Home Civil Service. These are impeccable credentials for contributing to our deliberations and his speech today assures us that he will be a wise, influential and most welcome addition to this House.

My comments in this debate take forward some of the points on the forthcoming housing Bill made by the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, and other Peers, including the noble Baroness, Lady Hollis. I am sure that there will be some helpful and positive ingredients in the new housing Bill since I believe that the Government are sincere in their stated aim to increase housing supply and, indeed, to meet their target of adding some 275,000 affordable homes over the lifetime of this Parliament. The problem is that a key component in the Bill is likely to completely undermine their good intentions if it is not greatly modified.

The Bill’s problematic ingredient has two related parts: first, a requirement on charitable housing associations to sell their properties at substantial discounts—up to more than £103,000 in London and £77,000 elsewhere—to tenants who have lived there for three years or more; and secondly, a requirement on local councils to sell their most valuable properties on the open market in order to raise the money for those costly housing association discounts. I see that I am in good company in questioning the wisdom of this two-part policy: the Economist, the Spectator, the Telegraph and the London Evening Standard alongside the Mayor of London are among the critics, as is Martin Woolf in the Financial Times, under the heading:

“Tories wrong to buy votes with housing”.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has called this right-to-buy extension a “substantial giveaway” and warns of harm to the UK public finances over the longer term.

I shall summarise the objections to this policy initiative. First, in relation to housing policy, there are hundreds of thousands of households that are unable to buy but are crippled by the cost of open market renting. For all these, the target of 275,000 extra affordable homes by 2020 is essential and, with government backing, definitely achievable. However, the National Housing Federation estimates that about 221,000 households, out of 1.5 million identified by the Government as eligible, are in a position to buy—and why should they not take advantage of this sudden lucky windfall? If these tenants purchase over the next five years, and if councils over that period are required to sell thousands of their best properties to raise the funds to pay for the housing association discounts, then the social housing providers will have tried to fill the bath with the plug out. At the end of this Parliament, instead of increasing the stock of affordable homes that the country needs so badly, all these efforts will have been in vain and, at best, we will be back where we started.

Moreover, the whole process of selling some social housing and building elsewhere will have grave consequences. With councils having to sell in the best areas and having to build in cheaper places, a divisive segregation results, separating the better-off and the less affluent, in contradiction to the universally preferred alternative of mixed communities. As the London mayor has pointed out, replacing the homes sold in London with homes built outside will deny London the key workers on which this city depends, while affordable homes sold off in rural communities will often be quite impossible to replace.

Secondly, the financial considerations of this double measure are alarming. The National Housing Federation estimates that the cost could be around £11.5 billion. Do these payments to a relatively small number of people represent the very best use of several billion pounds? A windfall grant to those already in decent affordable housing seems strange indeed when the money could help thousands of others in severe housing need. According to the National Housing Federation, this level of funds would, for example, secure no fewer than 660,000 shared ownership homes, helping three times as many aspiring owner-occupiers.

Moreover, what happens if selling good council housing as it falls vacant fails to raise all the funds to cover the cost of the new discounts, let alone pay for the councils to replace the homes they sell off? Can the Minister confirm that whatever the cost, housing associations will be guaranteed reimbursement for the loss of their assets? Will the taxpayer pick up the bill, regardless of the impact on the public finances?

Thirdly, and finally, there are some serious legal and practical objections to this policy. In the 1980s this House very firmly rejected the extension of the right to buy to charitable housing associations, principally on the grounds that government should not be ordering independent charitable bodies to dispose of their assets to the benefit of some tenants of today but at the cost of diminishing the charity’s capacity to help others in need in the future.

On the practical side, there are worries about the response of lenders to the new uncertainties that this measure creates. There are also concerns about planning agreements, which have required a proportion of rented homes in private developments to be retained in perpetuity for those on lower incomes, never to be sold. Are these planning agreements now to be torn up, and will the housing associations be forced to renege on promises to landowners who have given land or sold cheaply, on rural exception sites, for the benefit of their local communities? If so, this is surely an end to such concessions in the future.

Clearly there are serious housing policy, financial, legal and practical difficulties to this multibillion-pound initiative. It looks incredibly fraught. I conclude by asking the Minister: will there now be extensive consultation on the new policy, not least with Members of this House, before it is taken to its next stage?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble (Con)]

My Lords, I ask for noble Lords’ indulgence and assistance. Our timings are such that if we continue to have the length of speeches that we have had, the House will sit very late indeed. The advisory time of seven minutes is to ensure that the House rises at a respectable time, and I am sure that your Lordships would wish me to be helpful in that regard.

Electoral Registration and Administration Bill

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for this wide-ranging debate. The amendments in this group seek to remove the 15-year qualifying period for overseas electors and enable the Secretary of State to remove or extend the qualifying period via secondary legislation. Amendments in this group also seek to extend the 12-month registration period for overseas electors and to enable overseas electors to register and vote online.

I know that my noble friend Lord Lexden feels strongly about these matters, and I am well aware of the continuing loyalty to the United Kingdom of so many who have lived and worked overseas for many years. Indeed, this was echoed by my noble friend Lord Norton.

The current 15-year time limit on overseas voting rights, which Amendment 25 seeks to remove, was approved by an earlier Parliament. Whether the time limit remains appropriate is a wider question, which remains under consideration within government. I refer to what the noble Lord, Lord Wills, said about overseas employees. British Council employees, for instance, already have that continuing right, as well as other sectors. Therefore, his point will be part of that continuing consideration. There are valid arguments on both sides which need to be carefully considered alongside any practical issues before any informed decisions can be taken.

In the mean time, we have already taken steps in this Bill to improve the overseas voting process. The proposals we are introducing to extend the electoral timetable for UK parliamentary elections will facilitate greater voter participation. As part of the move to individual electoral registration, I am happy to announce that we also plan to remove the requirement for a person’s initial application as an overseas elector to be attested by another British citizen who is resident abroad. This change will simplify the registration process for electors living overseas.

Moving to Amendment 26, we believe that the franchise for UK elections should remain set out in primary legislation. It would be very unusual to provide for a change to the franchise in secondary legislation. Proposals regarding the franchise are important matters which should always be considered by Parliament before they become law.

Regarding Amendment 27, it is important that overseas electors update their registration and verify their details each year along the same lines as UK electors. This helps to ensure that postal ballots are despatched to the correct address whenever an election is held and enables the electoral registration officer to verify that an overseas elector’s 15-year qualifying period has not elapsed. Allowing overseas electors to remain registered until after the next general election would lead to inaccuracies in the register and open up avenues for others potentially to use fraudulently another person’s registration or to vote despite being ineligible.

Amendment 28 would compel local authorities to provide an online facility for overseas electors to make the declarations necessary to register to vote. Providing a full online facility for applications to be made that is similar to the domestic system that we are creating could prove to be very expensive relative to the number of people who are registered overseas, largely due to the necessary security against fraud that would need to be built in. We have, however, not ruled this out in the medium term and intend to see how much uptake there is of the domestic online system before making a decision.

While I support the sentiment behind Amendment 54 —that steps should be taken to enable those based overseas to participate effectively in elections—I do not think a provision to vote online is the best way to facilitate participation for this group. As noble Lords are aware, electronic voting is not in use at any statutory elections or referendums in the UK. It was piloted and considered by the previous Government and in some other countries but it has not been pursued in the absence of evidence of improved turnout and because of concerns about security.

The Government are assisting overseas voters to receive and return postal ballot packs. The extension to the electoral timetable from 17 to 25 working days will benefit overseas voters. Given the measures already undertaken to assist postal voting, the proposals to simplify registration and the ongoing consideration of the 15-year limit on overseas registration, I ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Lexden]

My Lords, we have had a useful and productive debate on an issue of international as well as national importance. I am grateful to all those who have taken part and illuminated various aspects of the issue. At the centre stands the principle, so clearly stated by my noble friend Lord Norton of Louth, that British overseas citizens who want to take part in our elections, reflecting their enduring commitment to our country, should be entitled to do so, particularly since they are disenfranchised in the countries where they live. Voting should rest on nationality not on residence or anything else.

I listened with particular care to the Minister’s speech and noted one or two encouraging points. Overall, however, I listened with some disappointment. I shall read his comments in full and reflect on them further. For now, my Lords, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

My Lords, we have two amendments in this group. They chime with the point that the noble Lord, Lord Rennard, is making; namely, is the Bill intending to dilute the powers of electoral registration officers and the Electoral Commission?

Amendment 39A seeks to address concerns held by the Electoral Commission that Schedule 4 waters down the provisions of the Representation of the People Act 1983 that required electoral registration officers to take all necessary steps in carrying out their duties. Our amendment proposes to remove this subsection and is intended to give the Government an opportunity to explain their thinking on this, and it very much reflects the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rennard.

With regard to Amendment 39C, this Bill downgrades the role of the Electoral Commission in the transition to and rollout of individual electoral registration. We have sought several opportunities to amend this Bill to give the Electoral Commission more power. This amendment aims to give power to the Electoral Commission to intervene where EROs are not performing to a sufficiently high standard.

However, interestingly, the Electoral Commission has now issued a statement saying that it feels that it does not need these further powers. We originally tabled this amendment in response to the Electoral Commission’s concerns, but it now says:

“In instances where the Commission has concerns about ERO performance, following a recommendation from the Commission, the Secretary of State or Lord President of the Council has a ‘power of direction’ to require EROs to comply with any general or special directions in relation to the discharge of their functions. To date this system has worked well and we therefore see no need for this to change when IER is introduced”.

The Electoral Commission says it is satisfied with this provided that it receives assurance from the Government that they are prepared to use the existing power of direction in cases where EROs are not fulfilling their duty to take all necessary steps to maintain the electoral register.

It is not a satisfactory position that the Electoral Commission not taking additional powers depends upon a Minister intervening in relation to what particular EROs are doing. It is a slower process; it depends upon the good will of politicians. Is it not better for it to be dealt with by a body that is independent of any political party? I would be interested to hear the Government’s views on these issues.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, first, I thank my noble friend for raising the issue of the general duty on registration officers.

The amendments to the 1983 Act set out in the Bill strengthen the existing duties on a registration officer while taking into account the requirements of the new registration system. The amendments to Sections 9 and 9A of the 1983 Act made by the Bill do not lower the standards that registration officers are expected to meet. Instead, they set out explicitly important requirements that are not expressly stated in legislation at present.

The qualification of “reasonably practicable” applies to the standard of completeness and accuracy of the register that must be reached—it must be as complete and accurate as is reasonably practicable. This is a high standard. To set it any higher would be to ask registration officers to achieve unreasonable or impracticable levels, which would not be right. It is simply not possible for registration officers to have perfectly up-to-date registers at all times and it would not be reasonable to introduce a requirement on registration officers which they would not be able to meet.

The Electoral Commission accepts that the changes proposed to Section 9A do not represent a watering down of the duties of electoral registration officers, but has asked the Government to make clear their intention behind the rewording of Section 9A. To offer that reassurance I will quote Mr David Heath from another place when he said that,

“far from diluting the requirements on registration officers, under the new registration system we are strengthening the existing duties”.—[Official Report, Commons, 27/6/12; col. 316.]

The change we are making does not weaken the duty in Section 9A. We have set out in draft regulations our initial proposals for what registration officers must do to encourage an application to register to vote. This includes as a minimum the sending of an invitation, two reminders, and the sending of a canvasser to encourage an application.

I believe that Amendment 39A has the same desired effect as Amendment 39. In addition, however, it would have the effect of removing the explicit duty to seek to include in the register those who are eligible to vote but are not currently on the register. Amendment 39C would give the Electoral Commission powers of intervention where they judge that registration officers have not taken all of the necessary steps outlined under Section 9A. However, it is not clear from the amendment what form this intervention would take.

We believe that the fulfilment of the requirements set out in Section 9A plays a vital role in improving the completeness and accuracy of our electoral registers, which we are committed to achieving; however, giving the Electoral Commission powers to intervene where this is not being done would be a significant change in its role.

The Commission already has powers to set and monitor performance standards for electoral services, against which electoral registration officers’ performance is measured. A failure to meet those standards could indicate a potential failure to meet the duty set out in Section 9A of the 1983 Act. In addition, Ministers may require registration officers to comply with directions relating to discharging their functions. It is also an offence for them to breach their official duty without good cause. To date this system has worked well and we see no need to change this or for any specific provision to be made relating to the discharge of Section 9A duties. For these reasons, I question whether the amendment is necessary in ensuring that Section 9A duties are fulfilled. For those reasons I ask my noble friend to withdraw his amendment.

I shall also speak to Amendments 43 and 45, which are minor and technical amendments. As a consequence of the changes to the canvass process under IER to be made by the Bill, we need to remove the reference to “the relevant date” from Section 49(6)(a) of the 1983 Act. That date is usually 15 October, which is currently the date of residence for the purposes of the annual canvass. Under IER the canvass will not be tied to a date. It is for those reasons that the Government will move Amendments 43 and 45.

[Lord Rennard]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his assurances that there is no intention whatever to weaken the duties of returning officers in relation to the registration process. I hope that any information that emanates from the Electoral Commission in due course will emphasise that fact to returning officers. On the basis of his reassurances, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 39.

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[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, Amendment 39B would require electoral registration officers to report to the police any instances where they suspect that individuals have committed offences relating to electoral fraud when submitting a registration or absent vote application. While the spirit behind the amendment is commendable, the Government do not consider it to be necessary to make this a statutory requirement. I should like to explain the reasons for that.

The need for EROs to refer to the police any suspicions they have on registration or postal vote applications which they receive is already very clear in the guidance issued to them by the Electoral Commission. The Electoral Commission’s Managing Electoral Registration in Great Britain guidance clearly states:

“Any issues concerning the integrity of the registration process should be reported”—

by the ERO—

“to the police immediately”.

In addition to this, the Electoral Commission has worked with the Association of Chief Police Officers to produce guidance for EROs, returning officers and police officers on identifying and responding to allegations of electoral fraud around the registration and postal voting process. In exercising its powers under Section 9A of the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000, the Electoral Commission has also set a specific performance standard on integrity which EROs need to meet in maintaining the integrity of registration and postal vote applications. In order to meet this performance standard, EROs are required to establish and maintain contact with their local police with a single point of contact and to ensure that any suspicions arising from registration and postal voting applications are reported to them immediately.

In view of the guidance, performance standards and the reports from the Electoral Commission which confirm that the overwhelming majority of EROs already take the appropriate action to report any suspicions they have in relation to fraudulent registration and postal voting applications to the police, we do not consider that this amendment will have any major impact or lead to any improvements on the ground. Although it is commendable, it is for those reasons that I ask the noble and learned Lord to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

40: Schedule 4, page 22, line 20, at end insert—
“(b) omit paragraph (c) and the “or” before it.”

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 44 and 46. These amendments are all technical and consequential. They relate to anonymous entries in the register. I should make it clear that the move to individual electoral registration will not change the right of individuals who may be at risk if their details are published in the electoral register to be registered as anonymous entries. However, the procedure relating to anonymous entries is being modified slightly as a result of individual electoral registration. These amendments are all consequential on these modifications and other IER changes. I beg to move.

Amendment 40 agreed.

Amendment 41

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

41: Schedule 4, page 23, line 15, leave out “In section 13(5)(b),” and insert—
“(1) Section 13 (publication of registers) is amended as follows.
(2) In subsection (2)(b), after “13A(3)” insert “or (3A)”.
(3) In subsection (5)(b),”

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 42. These are minor amendments and are intended to ensure that as many eligible applicants as possible are registered by removing a restriction on rolling registration applications being added to the revised register. Removing this restriction would not affect the entitlement of people to object to an application for registration or the registration officer’s duty to determine objections. Rolling registration was introduced by the Representation of the People Act 2000, the provisions of which set up a 14-day period prior to the publication of a monthly update or a revised register during which successful rolling registration applications may not be added.

Under the household registration system, this 14-day limit does not cause any great problems as different rules apply to the compilation of registers used for elections, and the revised register, which is usually published on 1 December, is published following the canvass period. Because a returned household canvass is a de facto application to register, few rolling registration applications are currently made in the canvass period. However, under IER, all applications to register will be akin to rolling registration applications. Having a 14-day period when these cannot be added to the revised register could cause a problem and potentially harm the completeness of the register. The amendments remove the 14-day limit in relation to the publication of the revised register.

As I said, these are minor amendments, but they are supported by the Electoral Commission, which said that it did not believe that there was any significant rationale for retaining the current 14-day period. Indeed, the Association of Electoral Administrators did not feel that there was any administrative reason to keep the limit. For those reasons, I beg to move.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

My Lords, the amendment sounds reasonable. Am I right in saying that there will now be no time limit before publication in respect of which registration can take place, meaning that, if you make your application the day before the register is published, it will be included in the register? If you remove the 14-day limit, that appears to be the effect. Perhaps I have misunderstood the amendment, but that seems to be the effect.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I think that I am getting into slightly technical territory, but my understanding is that the provision is designed so that, about five days before the register is concluded, as many people as possible are able to be on the register. Some assistance may be coming from the Box, which is always very helpful. The answer that I have is that there is still a five-day objection period, which I think gives the provision a practical effect.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

That is incredibly helpful. I am more than happy to see the 14 days go. The consequence is that, up to five days before publication, you will get on to the next published register; if the application is within those five days, you will be on the register that is published after the one that is just about to be published.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am very happy to confirm to the noble and learned Lord that that is the case.

Amendment 41 agreed.

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

42: Schedule 4, page 23, line 23, at end insert—
“( ) After subsection (3) insert—
“(3A) Subsection (2)(a)(ii) also does not require a registration officer in Great Britain to issue a notice under subsection (2) in a case where the month which follows that in which the relevant time falls is the month containing the date on which a revised version of the register is next due to be published in accordance with section 13(1)(a); and in such a case the alteration in question shall be made in that revised version of the register.””

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Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

44A: Schedule 4, page 24, line 26, leave out “must request or provide” and insert “may or must require persons to give by virtue of regulations under paragraph 1(2), or must provide to persons,”

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, this is a minor and technical amendment to the Bill. It ensures that there is no ambiguity over the continued application under individual electoral registration of the existing criminal offence relating to non-disclosure of information in response to the annual canvass or providing false information in the response.

The amendment maintains our declared policy of keeping the criminal offence alongside the new civil penalty. The criminal offence of non-disclosure or providing false information is an important part of electoral registration, giving registration officers the capacity to offer a warning on the canvass form and to insist that it is duly completed and returned.

The civil penalty is an additional tool for registration officers as they encourage individuals to register, but the criminal offence is still necessary to ensure that they receive as much information as possible in response to the annual canvass so that residents may be retained on the register or invited to make an individual application.

This is a technical amendment to paragraph 1B of Schedule 2 to the Representation of the People Act 1983, which is inserted by the Bill. It creates a link to paragraph 1 of that schedule, on the requirement to give information, which contains the link to the offence in paragraph 13. I beg to move.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

I feel sorry for the Minister because this is rather a complicated amendment. It was presented as being intended to preserve the criminal offence alongside the civil penalty. My reading of the amendment, which amends an amendment to another Act of Parliament, is that, instead of referring to information that a registration officer “must request or provide”, it refers to information that they,

“may or must require persons to give by virtue of regulations under paragraph 1(2), or must provide to persons”,

when conducting a canvass in Great Britain. I do not read Amendment 44A as preserving a criminal offence; I see it as changing the terms of the change that was introduced by the amendment to the other Act in this Act. Am I right and, if so, what is the effect of Amendment 44A? I apologise for asking such a complicated question but it is a rather complicated provision.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I understand that the key phrase in the amendment is the reference back to paragraph 1, but its purpose and effect is that there will be a criminal offence relating to non-disclosure of information on the annual canvass, as there is under the current household registration system. This relates to not providing information or providing false information when requested by an ERO. The criminal penalty can be used by EROs to ensure that the annual canvass form is completed and returned. However, the offence will remain in addition to the civil penalty being introduced under IER, which allows registration officers to impose the penalty where an individual fails to apply to register when required to do so. The criminal offence is more severe because it aims to prevent the potential disenfranchisement of others through the canvass whereas the civil penalty relates to an individual’s application. That is the purpose and effect of the amendment. I can go into further technical detail but perhaps I may clarify the point to the noble and learned Lord more fully when I have taken further advice. Having looked at the technical detail, which involves so much explanation of paragraphs, sections and subsections, I think that I would be in difficulties, and I suspect that other noble Lords might be also.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

I am perfectly content with that answer. Perhaps the Minister could have somebody write a little letter about it, because I do not think that it is at the heart of the Bill. It is my fault for not quite understanding the effect of the new amendment. If it were possible to write a letter in relation to it, I am sure that it would be no problem, but it would mean that, by the time we got to Report, we would know where we stood. I apologise for not grasping it.

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Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

45: Schedule 4, page 25, line 24, at end insert—
“Representation of the People Act 2000 (c. 2)In Schedule 1 to the Representation of the People Act 2000 (registration: amendments of Representation of the People Act 1983), omit paragraph 12(3) and (4).”

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[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

One would hope so. I do not know how long the transition is going to take. It is clear from the way that everybody has spoken that probably in the first publication of the register where IER is compulsory—1 December 2015—it will not be complete. I have no idea how long it will go on after that, therefore at the moment I am not minded to put in a terminus date. At this stage, I cannot see any objection to the principle. This may surprise you as I am not intending to push this to a vote, but if the principle were accepted—which I hope it will be—then I think the right thing to do would be to talk to the Government to work out the best way to craft the detail.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I am most grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his amendment requiring an annual report to Parliament on the funding allocated to local authorities. I am sorry to disappoint the noble and learned Lord, but as the then Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform announced during this Bill’s Second Reading debate in the other place, we will provide local authorities in England and Wales with grants under Section 31 of the Local Government Act 2003 to pay their net costs for the transition to individual registration in addition to the current costs of running the annual canvass process which will continue to be met through the formula grant.

The Government wrote to local authorities over the summer seeking views on the proposed payment method for the allocation of non-ring-fenced Section 31 grant and the proposed formula which will be taken into account in making allocations. The Minister for Political and Constitutional Reform then wrote to local authorities in December 2012 setting out how the final funding approach, including the funding formulae, will work. The grants paid by the Government to each local authority during the transition will be a matter of public record, and the progress made by local authorities towards implementation of individual registration will be scrutinised by the Electoral Commission as part of its performance standards regime and will also be a matter of public record.

Spending decisions are ultimately a matter for local authorities. However local authorities are required by Section 54 of the Representation of the People Act 1983 to pay the expenses of a registration officer properly incurred in the performance of their functions. Paragraph 16 of Schedule 4 to the Bill ensures that this requirement extends to the registration officer’s duties in respect of the transition to the new system.

I am sorry to disappoint the noble and learned Lord, but it is for those reasons that it is felt that the amendment is not necessary, and I therefore ask him to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Falconer of Thoroton]

The effect of my amendment would be that the report to Parliament annually, within two months of the end of the financial year, would simply be on what money was made available which the local authorities could use to meet the costs of the transition and what safeguards have been put in place to make sure the money had been spent on the specified task. It does not, in fact, require that the Government have to ensure that they do. It is a means of identifying what they intended and what steps they took to see whether it happened. With the greatest of respect to the Minister, I cannot see in any of the reasons that he gave why that is not quite a good thing to do which causes no problems for central government and does not interfere with the fact that it is ultimately for local authorities to make the decision about how they spend the overall grant they have. All that is being required here is that central government do the best it can in order to ensure that there is enough money for the transition without in any way offending the constitutional position.

Despite the Minister’s excellent help on previous amendments, I fear we may be hearing about this one again. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.