Elections Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 1 & Committee stage
Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Clement-Jones]

180A: Clause 39, page 48, line 28, leave out “reasonably practicable” and insert “possible”
Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment replaces “if it is not reasonably practicable to comply” with “if it is not possible to comply” to ensure that the majority of electronic material is within scope of the bill’s intentions.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I shall also speak to Amendments 194A, 194B, 196A and 212C. I am a relative interloper on this Bill as I was not able to speak at Second Reading. Part 6 has taken a long time to come in Committee, but the digital aspects of election campaigns are nevertheless of great importance. For the convenience of the House, I thought it best to group all these digital amendments together, although they cover rather different aspects of digital campaigning.

Before I start, I will say that I was looking forward to a joust with the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord True, but I send my best wishes to him for a speedy Covid recovery. On the other hand, it is a pleasure to see the versatile noble Earl, Lord Howe, taking part in these proceedings.

Digital campaigning is of growing importance. It accounted for 42.8% of reported spend on advertising in the UK at the 2017 general election. That figure rose in 2019; academic research has estimated that political parties’ spending on platforms is likely to have increased by over 50% in 2019 compared to 2017. As the Committee on Standards in Public Life said in its report in July last year, Regulating Election Finance:

“Research conducted by the Electoral Commission following the 2019 General Election revealed that concerns about transparency are having an impact on public trust and confidence in campaigns.”


In that light, the introduction of digital imprints for political electronic material is an overdue but welcome part of the Elections Bill.

The proposed regime as it stands covers all types of digital material and all types of appropriate promoter. However, a significant weakness of the Bill may exist in the detail of where an imprint must appear. In its current form, the Bill allows promoters of electronic material to avoid placing an imprint on the material itself if it is not reasonably practicable to do so. Instead, campaigners could include the imprint somewhere else that is directly accessible from the electronic material, such as a linked webpage or social media profile or bio. The evidence from Scotland’s recent parliamentary elections is that this will lead in practice to almost all imprints appearing on a promoter’s website or homepage or on their social media profile, rather than on the actual material itself. Perhaps that was encouraged by the rather permissive Electoral Commission guidance for those elections.

Can this really be classed as an imprint? For most observers of the material, there will be no discernible change from the situation that we have now—that is, they will not see the promoter’s details. The Electoral Commission also says that this approach could reduce transparency for voters if it is harder to find the imprint for some digital campaign material. It seems that

“if it is not reasonably practicable to comply”

will award promoters with too much leeway to hide an imprint. Replacing that with

“if it is not possible to comply”

would ensure that the majority of electronic material is within the scope of the Bill’s intentions. What happened to the original statement in the Cabinet Office summary of the final policy in its response to the consultation document Transparency in Digital Campaigning in June last year? That says:

“Under the new regime, all paid-for electronic material will require an imprint, regardless of who it is promoted by.”


There is no mention of exemptions.

The commission says it is important that the meanings of the terms in the Bill are clear and unambiguous, and that it needs to know what the Government’s intent is in this area. In what circumstances do the Government really believe it reasonable not to have an imprint but to have it on a website or on a social media profile? We need a clear statement from them.

As my noble friend Lord Wallace said, Amendments 194A and 196A really should be included in the “missed opportunity” box, given the massive threat of misinformation and disinformation during election campaigns, particularly by foreign actors, highlighted in a series of reports by the Electoral Commission, the Intelligence and Security Committee and the Committee on Standards in Public Life, as well as by the Joint Committee on the Draft Online Safety Bill, on which I sat. It is vital that we have much greater regulation over this and full transparency over what has been paid for and what content has been paid for. As the CSPL report last July said,

“digital communication allows for a more granular level of targeting and at a greater volume – meaning more messages are targeted, more precisely and more often.”

The report says:

“The evidence we have heard, combined with the conclusions reached by a range of expert reports on digital campaigning in recent years, has led us to conclude that urgent action is needed to require more information to be made available about how money is spent on digital campaigning.”


It continues in paragraph 6.26:

“We consider that social media companies that permit campaign adverts in the UK should be obliged to create advert libraries. As a minimum they should include adverts that fit the legal definition of election material in UK law.”


The report recommends that:

“The government should change the law to require parties and campaigners to provide the Electoral Commission with more detailed invoices from their digital suppliers … subdivide their spending returns to record what medium was used for each activity”


and

“legislate to require social media platforms that permit election adverts in the UK to create advert libraries that include specified information.”

All those recommendations are also contained in the Electoral Commission report, Digital Campaigning: Increasing Transparency for Voters from as long ago as June 2018, and reflect what the Centre for Data Ethics and Innovation set out in its February 2020 report on online targeting in specifying what it considered should be included in any such advert library. The implementation of these recommendations, which are included in Amendment 196A, would serve to greatly increase the financial transparency of digital campaigning operations.

In their response to the CSPL report, the Government said:

“The Government is committed to increasing transparency in digital campaigning to empower voters to make decisions. As part of this, we take these recommendations on digital campaigning seriously. As with all of the recommendations made by the CSPL, the Government will look in detail at the recommendations and consider the implications and practicalities.”


The Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee report last December followed that up, saying at paragraph 216:

“The Government’s response to the CSPL report on electoral finance regulation provides no indication of which of its recommendations (not already included in the Bill) the Government is likely to adopt … prioritise for consultation or when or how the Government proposes to give legislative effect to recommendations that will not be included in the Bill. The Government should give clarity on its next steps in this regard.”


So the time has come for the Government to say what their intentions are. They have had over six months to do this, and I hope they have come to the conclusion that fully safeguards our democracy. I hope the Government will now see the merits and importance of those amendments.

On Amendment 194B, the CSPL also recommended changes to electoral law regarding foreign actors. We had some discussion about this issue during the debate on Amendment 35. The CSPL says at paragraph 6.29 of its report:

“As we discuss in chapter 4, the rules on permissible donations were based on the principle that there should be no foreign interference in UK elections. However, the rules do not explicitly ban spending on campaign advertising by foreign individuals or organisations.”


It specifically refers to the Electoral Commission’s Digital Campaigning report, which said:

“A specific ban on any campaign spending from abroad would … strengthen the UK’s election and referendum rules.”


It quoted the DCMS committee’s February 2019 report, Disinformation and “Fake News”, which said that

“the UK is clearly vulnerable to covert digital influence campaigns”,

and the Intelligence and Security Committee report, which stated that if the commission

“is to tackle foreign interference, then it must be given the necessary legislative powers.”

These are powerful testimonies and recommendations from some very well respected committees. As a result, the CSPL recommended:

“In line with the principle of no foreign interference in UK elections, the government should legislate to ban foreign organisations or individuals from buying campaign advertising in the UK.”


This is very similar to a recommendation in the Electoral Commission’s Digital Campaigning: Increasing Transparency for Voters report of 2018, which I referred to earlier. In response, the Government said: “We are extending this”—the prohibition of foreign money—

“even further as part of the Elections Bill, to cover all third-party spending above £700 during a regulated period.”

However, the current proposals in the Bill have loopholes that foreign organisations can readily use, for instance through setting up multiple channels. A foreign actor could set up dozens of entities and spend £699 on each one—something very easy for online expenditure.

Amendment 194B would ensure that foreign entities were completely banned from participating at all and would make absolutely certain that the Government’s intentions were fulfilled. Again, I hope that the Minister will readily accept this amendment as strengthening the Bill against foreign interference.

Turning to Amendment 212C, tackling societal harms caused by misinformation and disinformation is not straightforward, as our Joint Committee on the Online Safety Bill found. However, consistent with the report of the Lords Select Committee on Democracy and Digital Technologies, Digital Technology and the Resurrection of Trust, chaired by the much-missed Lord Puttnam, we said:

“Disinformation and Misinformation surrounding elections are a risk to democracy. Disinformation which aims to disrupt elections must be addressed by legislation. If the Government decides that the Online Safety Bill is not the appropriate place to do so, then it should use the Elections Bill which is currently making its way through Parliament.”


There is, of course, always a tension with freedom of expression, and as we emphasised in our Joint Committee, so we must prioritise tackling specific harmful activity over restricting content. Apart from the digital imprint provisions, however, the Bill fails to take any account of mounting evidence and concerns about the impact on our democracy of misinformation and disinformation. The long delayed report of the Intelligence and Security Committee on Russian interference of July 2020 was highly relevant in this context, stating:

“The UK is clearly a target for Russia’s disinformation campaigns and political influence operations and must therefore equip itself to counter such efforts.”


Protecting our democratic discourse and processes from hostile foreign interference is a central responsibility of the Government. The committee went on, very topically, to say:

“The links of the Russian elite to the UK—especially where this involves business and investment—provide access to UK companies and political figures, and thereby a means for broad Russian influence in the UK.”


It continued:

“We note—and, again, agree with the DCMS Select Committee—that ‘the UK is clearly vulnerable to covert digital influence campaigns.’”


The online harms White Paper published in April 2019 recognised the dangers that digital technology could pose to democracy and proposed measures to tackle them. Given the extensive regulatory framework being put in place for individual online harms in the Online Safety Bill, newly published last week, why are the Government reluctant to reaffirm the White Paper approach to elections and include it in this Bill? The Government responded to our Joint Committee report on this issue last week by saying that they agreed that misinformation and disinformation surrounding elections are a risk to democracy. However, they went on to say:

“The Government has robust systems in place that bring together governmental, civil society and private sector organisations to monitor and respond to interference in whatever form it takes to ensure that our democracy stays open, vibrant and transparent”


—fine words. They cite the Defending Democracy programme, saying:

“Ahead of major democratic events, the Defending Democracy programme stands up the Election Cell. This is a strategic coordination and risk reporting structure that works with relevant organisations to identify and respond to emerging issues”.


So far, so vague. They continue:

“The Counter Disinformation Unit based in DCMS is an integral part of this structure and undertakes work to understand the extent, scope and the reach of misinformation and disinformation.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft. I am sure that we all wish her well in her lawsuit, which is clearly being taken for all the right reasons. I thank the Minister for her response, particularly her invitation to discuss this further, but the actual response she gave today did not score that many runs as far as I was concerned.

If you look at the intent behind all these amendments —prohibiting foreign interference, greater transparency over digital advertising, expenditure and content, preventing misinformation and disinformation—these are all things we should be striving for to make sure that we have a more vibrant democracy and to prevent damage to it. The Government have pushed back on them, and I am afraid that this is really not acceptable in this day and age. If I could respond to what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said about digital, there is a difference. We have seen the power of the algorithm to amplify in a really unhelpful, dangerous and sometimes harmful way as far as individual harms are concerned, and it is true of democracy at large as well.

I take the point of the noble Lord, Lord Mann. He is clearly an extremely creative campaigner, and walks around with an electronic sweater that advertises—or used to advertise—his electoral qualities. We have to be alert to new forms of campaigning, but we are where we are; this Bill purports to be a way of dealing with digital campaigning, but it does not do the full job. That is exactly the point that we really need to be aware of.

I heard what the Minister had to say about “reasonably practicable” and so on, but the Electoral Commission guidance itself was not that clear for the Scottish parliamentary campaign. It was quite permissive, so as a result, the imprint appeared mostly either in the social media bio or on the website. It did not appear on the actual material itself, so the intent there was not achieved, and I doubt very much, if the guidance is the same—based on the same wording—that that will not be the case in the implementation of this particular provision. The leeway is too great, so it is not comprehensive.

As far as the other aspects go, I will look very carefully at what the Minister said, but, as far as advert libraries are concerned, she is repeating what the Government have said on a number of occasions: “Oh, fine, social media are already doing this.” The whole purpose of regulation in this area, however, is to specify what needs to be contained in those advert libraries. It is not enough to say, “Oh, yes, Facebook is doing it here and Twitter is doing it there”—although Twitter is no longer doing political adverts, there are other platforms such as Instagram.

As far as foreign actors are concerned, the Minister has simply repeated my own words back to me about the £700 limit, so I do not think we advanced the argument very far. As for false information, misinformation, or disinformation, the example I gave in Amendment 212C was simply, in a sense, designed to elicit a response from the Government about their intentions. Clearly, they do not seem to have any particular intention, despite the fact that their White Paper on online harms actually dealt with the subject fairly comprehensively. The question comes back to the Government about misinformation and disinformation. Their response to a whole range of committees—the CSPL, the ISC, and the Electoral Commission itself—seems to be pretty blithe. The question increasingly is: if they are not prepared to regulate misinformation or disinformation, which are threats to our democracy, what are they going to wait for: until we have a clear electoral travesty? If not now, when? No doubt, we will return to this at some later stage, but in the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 180A withdrawn.

Health and Care Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Lords Hansard _ Part 1 & Report stage
Wednesday 16th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 165 requires the Secretary of State to

“promote self care for minor ailments and prepare a national self care strategy”.

I hope that Ministers will just agree to this, without very much debate.

Self-care is defined as

“the actions individuals take for themselves, on behalf of and with others, to develop, protect, maintain and improve their health.”

It is an important but often overlooked part of the primary care pathway.

Given all the pressures that there are on the health service and that there are going to be over the next 30 to 40 years, surely we should do everything we can to encourage self-help for minor ailments. During Covid, the importance of self-care in reducing the burden on GPs and A&E became very self-evident. Since the outbreak started, people with minor ailments were not able to visit their GP in the traditional manner and learned, or at least practised, self-help behaviours instead. A survey carried out by PAGB, the consumer healthcare association, during the first national lockdown indicated that the pandemic has had an impact on people’s attitudes to self-care. Some 69% of people who would not have considered practising self-care prior to the pandemic said that they were more likely to do so after their experience of lockdown.

Interestingly, if the Government were prepared to run with this strategy, there are all sorts of behaviours that they could start to encourage. They could ensure that individuals understand or are willing to practise self-care; ensure a cultural shift among healthcare professionals toward well-being, enabling people to self-care; ensure that the system is supported to encourage self-care where appropriate, with pharmacies, of course, playing a big role in that; encourage the use of digital technology; enhance the national curriculum on self-care for schoolchildren; and introduce self-care modules in healthcare professionals’ training curriculum.

I come back to the point that the Minister and noble Lords know that the health service is currently under huge pressure, not just because of the backlog. Already before the pandemic, the health service was really struggling to meet its targets. The demographics, the growing older population and all these factors suggest that the NHS will struggle hugely to cope with the pressure on it over the next 20, 30 and 40 years. Surely some part of the strategy to deal with this is to encourage all of us not just to look after our own health more but, where we can, to self-help. I would have thought that message would have been accepted with alacrity on the Government Front Bench. I hope the Minister will be able to say that this is very much taken to heart and that the Government really will start to drive the new strategy. I beg to move.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support Amendment 165, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and thank him for putting it forward. Self-care has an important role to play in supporting people to manage their own health needs, and also in alleviating an unsustainable demand on GP and A&E services. As the noble Lord described, prior to the coronavirus pandemic there were some 18 million GP appointments and 3.7 million visits to A&E every year for conditions which people could have looked after themselves or sought advice from a pharmacist. It is estimated that this was costing the NHS in the region of £1.5 billion a year.

During the coronavirus, again as the noble Lord described, surveys have shown a much greater willingness among members of the public to self-care for these self-treatable conditions. But it is vital that appropriate policies are put in place to ensure that, as we emerge from the pandemic, people who can self-care continue to do so. It is evident now that self-care can help address many of the challenges we face in the NHS today, but to do so we need to address some of the system barriers to self-care, as described in this amendment, and unlock the important behavioural shifts that enabled people to self-care during the pandemic.

In particular, I will highlight how the NHS can make much better use of digital technologies and community pharmacists to enable people to self-care. We need to make better use of the technologies that the NHS has embraced over the course of the pandemic, such as the Covid-19 symptom checker on the NHS website. The digital triaging technology should be used to support the expansion of the community pharmacist consultation service to enable people to follow an algorithm online to get a referral for a consultation with a local pharmacist. It is critical, if we are to optimise the role of pharmacists—I am a big supporter of community pharmacists—that we give them the digital tools and information they need to support people. At present, a pharmacist cannot routinely record the advice or medication they give people, despite receiving training. The NHS must address the question of interoperability in IT systems, so that pharmacists can have access to read and to input into people’s medical records and enable pharmacists to be a core part of an individual’s primary healthcare team.

6.15 pm

The pandemic has highlighted how quickly the NHS and patients can adopt technological and digital changes. Realising the Potential: Developing a Blueprint for a Self Care Strategy for England, a document launched last October, is an excellent blueprint for this. A whole range of organisations, including NHS clinical commissioners, the RCN, pharmacy organisations, the Self Care Forum and, of course, the PAGB, have worked together to develop this blueprint for a comprehensive national self-care strategy to support the introduction of self-care policies throughout the NHS in England. It contains policy proposals and case studies, in particular in relation to digital technologies, which set out how the NHS can fully embed self-care and pharmacy into primary care.

I hope the Minister today will outline how the Government are ensuring that the NHS can adopt these proposals, which learn from the pandemic, and will expand them to support individuals to enable self-care.

[Baroness Wheeler (Lab)]

My Lords, we had a good debate in Committee on the issue of self-care and the management of health conditions, particularly on its importance as a key part of the primary care pathway. This was underlined in diabetes care and, as I also emphasised, in the care and treatment of people with rare diseases, most of whom are living with lifelong conditions. As vice-chair of the Specialised Healthcare Alliance of charities supporting this key group of patients, I know that they often do not feel sufficiently supported in terms of care and support and health and system information, and with physical and daily living.

As the two noble Lords have stressed, the Health Foundation’s research on the effective self-management by patients has shown a significant reduction in the need for emergency admissions to hospital and in A&E attendances, and fewer GP appointments. In this context, Amendment 165 makes a great deal of sense. If patients with, for example, rare diseases receive appropriate support to manage their less intensive care needs, then promoting self-care has the potential to help them prevent their conditions from deteriorating, to improve their lives and to reduce demands on the NHS, as the noble Lords have stressed.

We therefore strongly support the need for the development of a national self-care strategy, starting with awareness raising among primary and secondary children on how to self-care, and with appropriate staff and management training of healthcare professionals. Improved technologies, as underlined by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, especially those developed during the pandemic, will have a key role in broadening access to effective self-care and ensuring the better support from primary and community pharmacists that we all want to see. I hope the Minister will respond positively to this amendment.

Health and Care Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Report stage
Monday 7th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Black, has put a convincing and comprehensive case for his amendments, which I have signed. He has knocked back nearly every argument made by the Government in this House and in correspondence against a level playing field being established for platform liability.

In his letter after Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, said:

“The scale and speed of advertising online, as well as the personalised nature of advertising and the lack of transparency in this system, makes it difficult for platforms to have control over what is placed on them.”


They have far more control than the broadcasters. They run their own digital advertising agencies. Facebook and Google have massive market share in their own individual digital markets.

It is extraordinary that the Government are buying these arguments from the social media platforms. They are on extremely thin ground. If the noble Lord, Lord Black of Brentwood, pushes these amendments to a vote, we will support him.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I support noble Lord, Lord Bethell, in his amendments demanding a timescale for the ban on such adverts. Advertising is the only business in the world that spends an enormous amount of money and then suggests that it does not work. It is a curious state of affairs that the advertising industry, as well as the food industry, which spends upwards of £0.5 billion a year on advertising HFSS food, says that advertising does not work, but the fact is that it does.

Research has shown that half of all food ads shown in September on ITV, Channel 4, Channel 5 and Sky One were for HFSS products. That number rose to nearly 60% between 6 pm and 9 pm. Ofcom research also suggests that children’s viewing peaks in the hours after school, with the largest number of child viewers concentrated around family viewing time, between 6 pm and 9 pm. People in food policy have worked, as I have worked, for a very long time for this ban. We thoroughly applaud the Government for doing it. I also applaud my noble friend Lord Krebs for taking apart that protein bar, because it illustrates the way in which the food industry works. I have heard all too often, especially when I first came into this House—albeit not so much now—people saying, “All you need to do is exercise to get rid of the excess weight.” We know that that is a line put out by the industry. The industry is very clever. Yes, they have managed to sell the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, their protein bar, but they have not sold it properly. I hope that, with this ban, the Government will look at all the other sneaky ways in which food companies put things through, whether it is high-energy drinks or whatever, that are incredibly destructive to our health. As my noble friend Lord Krebs, said, we have an unenviable first position in the scale of obesity around the world, and we need to end it now.

Health and Care Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Committee stage
Friday 4th February 2022 Lords Chamber

Similarly, Amendment 248A in my name relates to high-protein bars. It is already the case under EU regulations still in force in the United Kingdom that a claim that a food is low in sugars may be made only where the product contains no more than 5 grams of sugars per 100 grams for solids, or 2.5 grams of sugars per 100 millilitres for liquids. A claim that a food is high in protein may be made only where at least 20% of the energy value of the food is provided by protein. There are small businesses—one has approached me—that have carefully crafted their product to meet these regulations to put them in the category of good and healthy food. That is the purpose of the regulations. Yet those businesses’ high-protein, low-sugar bars, which have been operating perfectly lawfully until now, will fail to meet the Government’s new regulations as they stand and their advertising will come to an end. I ask my noble friend what assurance he can give them that their legitimate business is not in effect to be criminalised by this Bill.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to a number of amendments in this important group focused on the Government’s proposals in Schedule 17. I will speak first to Amendments 247A, 249ZA, 249ZB, and so on, tabled by my noble friend Lady Walmsley and me. I am grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, too. These arise from the 15th report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee of 16 December—already referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Moylan—supported by the 9th report of the Constitution Committee of 7 January and its clear recommendation about Schedule 17. Alongside the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, both committees have expressed strong views as to the increasingly skeletal nature of current government legislation and the increasing tendency not just to avoid detail in primary legislation but to avoid secondary legislation through issuing guidance which does not come before Parliament. The House debated this aspect on the first day of Committee, when noble Lords made clear their views about the skeletal nature of the Bill.

The DPRRC says in paragraph 20:

“The merits of restrictions on food and drink advertising are not within our remit; but the method of implementing the policy is.”


The committee goes on to say, in paragraph 23:

“Legislation, which of its nature affects the legal rights and liabilities of people, should not be capable of being altered by guidance.”


It concludes, in paragraph 26:

“We consider that the power to define a food or drink product that is ‘less healthy’ should be exercised solely through the making of regulations and not also through the making of guidance.”


Explicitly, under paragraph 1 of Schedule 17 amending the Communications Act 2003, new Section 321A(3)(c) provides that

“a food or drink product is ‘less healthy’ if … it falls within a description specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State, and … it is ‘less healthy’ in accordance with the relevant guidance”.

This crucial guidance is the nutrient profiling model, over which Parliament has exercised no scrutiny. It has been in place since 2011 and it can be changed by the Government without any parliamentary debate or input from affected businesses. The NPM is a tool used by Ofcom and the Committee of Advertising Practice to give food and drink products a score, which determines whether products can be advertised during children’s television currently and in non-broadcast media, including print, cinema, online and social media. At the very least, the definition of “less healthy”—giving rise as it does to such severe economic consequences for broadcasters, manufacturers and online media—should be contained in secondary legislation, which, as the DPRRC noted, should normally be introduced by the affirmative procedure. The Constitution Committee entirely endorsed the conclusions of the DPRRC.

Much has changed in the last 10 years. It would be a travesty if such important new provisions having such a major impact on broadcasters and manufacturers were based on out-of-date guidance and not subjected in any way to parliamentary scrutiny. I hope that the Government will accept that secondary legislation is the only legitimate way forward. I also hope that the Minister will not try to satisfy us with the consultation on the NPM that took place in 2018. That has still not seen the light of day and still would not be subject to parliamentary scrutiny, however onerous its new provisions were—for example, they could in future include free sugars in fruit juices and smoothies.

I have also tabled Amendments 248B and 253C. Many in the food industry are concerned that the new definition of food or drink SME introduced by paragraph 1 of Schedule 17 is based purely on employee numbers and could create a competitive disadvantage for UK businesses. As currently drafted, large multinational businesses could be exempt from the restrictions by reason of having less than 250 UK-based employees. This may inadvertently encourage companies to divert manufacturing abroad in order to qualify as an SME. To ensure a level playing field and to protect UK manufacturing, the amendment substitutes an SME definition that also includes a turnover threshold, currently of not more than £36 million, in line with the definition of medium-sized company in Section 465 the Companies Act 2006.

I have also signed and support amendments spoken to variously by the noble Lords, Lord Vaizey and Lord Moylan, which propose: provisions to allow further time for implementation of the provisions of Schedule 17; the sunset clause, which provides the necessary post-legislative scrutiny; explicit exemptions for brand advertising; and ensuring a level playing field for liability for the online platforms. I also support my noble friend Lady Walmsley’s consultation amendment, Amendment 259A.

Above all, I support the amendments spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, in spirit, designed to change the watershed. I sponsored the Private Member’s Bill that banned tobacco advertising 20 years ago, so I am not averse to strong action on advertising where necessary, where the evidence of harm is there. I absolutely support a national obesity strategy and believe we have a serious problem. Campaigns such as the Daily Mile and Eat Them to Defeat Them are the way forward, alongside the sugar tax, targeted interventions and nutrition education. However, I believe that Schedule 17, as it currently stands, is disproportionate in what it seeks to do.

As we have heard, the Government’s own impact assessment of March 2019 confirms the minimal impact on obesity of these measures, but they represent a demonstrable threat to broadcasters and to jobs and investment across the country. The impact assessment estimated that a pre-9 pm TV watershed ban would reduce children’s calorie intake by 1.7 calories a day—it is there in black and white. At the same time, it sets out that children’s exposure to such advertisements has declined by 70% since the rules were tightened in 2008. The latest BARB data suggests that the decline is accelerating far beyond that predicted previously.

So while exposure levels have declined significantly, childhood obesity levels have risen. It seems extraordinary to proceed with that policy as regards television, when the evidence is that it will do little to address obesity. Given that the most likely response of the industry will be to move to alternative in-store price promotions, this is not surprising. These are not subject to any government restrictions and this was what much of the food and drink sector told the strategy consultants OC&C it would do in the event of a pre-9 pm ban.

The Obesity Health Alliance states that

“evidence shows children who already have a weight classed as overweight or obese eat more in response to advertising.”

To put this in context, overweight and obese boys consume between 146 and 505 excess calories per day, while the figures are 157 to 291 for girls. Using the Government’s own numbers and methodology, overweight children would still lose just 2.63 calories per day. Such a small reduction will make no meaningful difference to health outcomes.

The impact assessment predicts a £171 million loss to broadcasters in advertising revenue, and it is here that I have my most fundamental concerns: the proposals will have a major detrimental impact on the funding of public service broadcasters and news media. That is the key problem. The Government, in their consultations, relied heavily on the idea that broadcasters would be able to mitigate most of the impact of the ban. I have explored that proposition carefully and it is not the case. Broadcasters cannot easily shift existing HFSS advertising from pre to post-9 pm slots. Non-HFSS advertisers will resist being moved out of post-9 pm airtime since this would reduce the impact of campaigns and make them relatively more expensive.

Broadcasters make the strong point that they do not have a queue of advertisers who currently have no TV space waiting patiently in the wings for slots to become available, nor brands with other products unable to get enough space. ITV has experienced four years of successive decline in TV advertising revenue, so the pre-9 pm ban will cause great damage to commercial public service broadcasting, which is already under pressure. In the circumstances, the compromise watershed suggestion put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, and supported by the commercial public service broadcasters, to cover the viewing times for children seems eminently reasonable. Again, I hope the Government will reconsider.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend was of course eagle-eared—I am mixing a metaphor—in that I did not address his point on that. I can tell him that, in 2016, the Government commissioned Public Health England to review the UK NPM algorithm that has been in place since 2004, to ensure that it aligns with dietary recommendations from the Scientific Advisory Committee on Nutrition, particularly for free sugars and fibre. I am afraid to say that my next line is that the outcome of that review will be published in due course.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

I want to follow up on that question. It was in 2018 that the consultation took place; is the Minister aware of that? We are now four years down the track and nothing has come out.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The date that I have for the commissioning of the work is 2016, which means that we are even further down the road on that piece of work. I am well aware of the time that has passed since then. I will undertake to see if I can provide any update beyond “in due course”, but I do not want to raise noble Lords’ hopes too far on that.

I hope that I have been able to provide noble Lords across the Chamber with assurances as to our plans and, therefore, that noble Lords will feel able not to press their amendments.

Health and Care Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Lords Hansard - Part 2 & Committee stage
Tuesday 18th January 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Clement-Jones]

26: Schedule 2, page 136, line 23, at end insert—
“(ba) a director of digital transformation (see paragraph 7A), and”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment, and the other to page 137, line 10, ensure that a director of digital transformation is appointed to the integrated care board.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 26 I will also speak to Amendments 70, 73, 84, 134, 140 and 160. I start by warmly thanking the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, for allowing me to speak to and lead on this set of amendments, to which his is the leading name. By the same token, I am delighted to see that he is now back in his place and able to advocate much more knowledgeably than I can the merits of the amendments in this group, which relate to the digital aspects of the NHS and the importance of digital transformation in the health service. They are designed to ensure that a digital transformation duty is set out, five-year plans are made, digital issues are high up on the agenda of the ICBs, and progress in this area is assessed and reported on.

I am sorry that I was not able to contribute at Second Reading on digital or data matters. However, as Chris Hopson, chief executive of NHS Providers, said in his Observer piece two Sundays ago,

“we need a national transformation programme that embeds modern technology, 21st century medicine, integrated care closer to home and much greater emphasis on prevention at the heart of our health and care system.”

There is huge potential for technology to help health and care professionals to communicate better and to enable people to access the care they need quickly and easily when it suits them. Quite apart from its impact on planning and administration, the technology, as the NHSE digital transformation website emphasises, goes all the way from ambulance iPads through fitness apps to digital home care technology. It ranges from websites and apps that make care and advice easy to access wherever you are to connected computer systems that give NHS staff the test results, history and evidence they need to make the best decisions for patients.

As the recent Wade-Gery report points out:

“Digital technology is transforming every industry including healthcare. Digital and data have been used to redesign services, raising citizen expectations about self-service, personalisation, and convenience, and increasing workforce productivity.”


It says that the NHS should be in the vanguard. It goes on to say:

“The pandemic has accelerated the shift to online and changed patient expectations and clinical willingness to adopt new ways of working.”


It also says that

“the vaccine programme, supported by so many brilliant volunteers and staff, was only possible through the use of advanced data analytics to drive the risk stratification, population segmentation and operational rollout.”

However, the review also says:

“The need is compelling. The NHS faces unprecedented demand and severe operational pressure as we emerge from the coronavirus pandemic, and we need new ways of working to address this. Now is the moment to put data, digital and technology at the heart of how we transform health services … Effective implementation will require a significant cultural shift away from the current siloed approach in the centre with conscious management to ensure intentions translate to reality … This system leadership should be responsible, in a partnership model between the centre and ICSs, for setting out the business and technology capability requirements of ICSs and the centre with the roadmaps to realise these, and for determining the appropriate high level technical standards, and blueprints for transformed care pathways.”


I have quoted the Wade-Gery review at length but the What Good Looks Like framework set out by NHSX last year is an important document too, designed as it is to be used to accelerate digital and data transformation. It specifies in success measure 1:

“Your ICS has a clear strategy for digital transformation and collaboration. Leaders across the ICS collectively own and drive the digital transformation journey, placing citizens and frontline perspectives at the centre. All leaders promote digitally enabled transformation to efficiently deliver safe, high quality care. Integrated Care Boards (ICBs) build digital and data expertise and accountability into their leadership and governance arrangements, and ensure delivery of the system-wide digital and data strategy.”


Wade-Gery recommends, inter alia, that we

“reorientate the focus of the centre to make digital integral to transforming care”.

In the light of all this, surely that must apply to ICBs as well.

We need to adopt the measures set out in the amendments in this group; namely, specifying in Amendment 26 that there should be a director of digital transformation for each ICB. ICBs need clear leadership to devise, develop and deliver the digital transformation that the NHS so badly needs, in line with all the above. There also needs to be a clear duty placed on ICBs to promote digital transformation. It must be included as part of their performance assessment—otherwise, none of this will happen—and in their annual report, as set out in Amendments 84, 134 and 140.

The resources for digital transformation need to be guaranteed. Amendment 160 is designed to ensure that capital expenditure budgets for digital transformation cannot be raided for other purposes and that digital transformation takes place as planned. It is clear from the Wade-Gery report that we should be doubling and lifting our NHS capital expenditure to 5% of total NHS expenditure, as recommended by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, and the Institute for Public Policy Research back in June 2018. We should have done that by June 2022 to accord with his recommendations but we are still suffering from chronic underinvestment in digital technology. Indeed, what are the Government’s expenditure plans on NHS digital transformation? We should be ring-fencing the 5% as firmly as we can. As Wade-Gery says:

“NHSEI should therefore as a matter of urgency determine the levels of spend on IT across the wider system and seek to re-prioritise spend from within the wider NHSE budget to support accelerated digital transformation.”


It adds up to asking why these digital transformation aspirations have been put in place without willing the means.

--- Later in debate ---

I can say to my noble and learned friend that the importance of innovation is absolutely at the heart of the way in which the leaders of the ICBs are being chosen. They need to be people who look ahead, think strategically and value innovation, not just for itself but for the way in which it can transform care. Not all innovation is good; we must remember that. We should look only at innovation that has a positive effect on the care of patients and service users, but digitisation is undoubtedly one of those areas of innovation on which we must concentrate. I am confident that the leaders that are now lined up have that ambition very much in mind.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Howe, for his very considered response. We have had a very rich debate, and I thank all the speakers. It has been a privilege to take part in what I think the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, called this “conversation”, because we have heard huge experience and authority, right across the board, about the way we might digitally transform the NHS.

In a sense, I think it is about means, not ends: we are trying to reach the same end but we disagree on how to get to that objective. At the core of that disagreement, and no doubt where we will have considerable debate later on in the Bill, is where the digital transformation aspect fits with data confidentiality and data sharing—all of which is necessary as part of digital transformation. I listened with enormous interest to what the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, had to say on that. We have to get this equation right, and we have to build public trust. I say “build” public trust because I do not think it is completely there, post the GP data grab, as it has been called, of last year. We will come on to that on future occasions.

I feel somewhat that the noble Earl, despite his mellifluous approach to these matters, was rather throwing the book of arguments at the need for any form of amendment to the Bill. He always does so with great style, but I was not totally convinced on this occasion. He mentioned the principle that we should not be too prescriptive—in that case, why are we legislating? We are trying to legislate for what the priorities for the health service are in the current circumstances.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

Does my noble friend not think there is an interesting contrast in saying that we must not be too prescriptive but, for NHS England, we are going to tell it what to do?

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

Absolutely. I think the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, talked about a disconnect in another context, but that is probably the word I would use in these circumstances. The Government say that they are going to prioritise good local leadership but do not want to be too prescriptive about who is on the board of the ICB; that they want a clear strategy for digital transformation but do not want to make it a duty; and that a general level of competence and expertise is required but, again, “Oh, no, we don’t want any digital duty; that would be a little bit too prescriptive”.

We need a level of digital maturity, and a regular set of digital maturity assessments. I liked the sound of that, but faced with all the other duties that ICBs will have, which ones are they going to prioritise—the ones that are built into statute, or the ones that are part of a What Good Looks Like programme? The noble Earl quoted exactly the same document that I had access to. It is a splendid document but, without some form of underpinning by legislation, it is very difficult to see ICBs giving priority to that.

Of course, the other argument the noble Earl made was that if we had a separate duty, we would have to have a whole separate planning process. That is not how these things work. When you have a set of duties, you try to do it in a holistic fashion. You do not say that we need one plan for this duty and another for that duty. If you are going to use your resources sensibly and the capabilities within your organisation in the right way, you need to do it in a planned programme, right across the board.

On the whole issue that having a separate statutory duty risks misalignment, I thought that was where somebody had really been creative and woken up with the inspiration that this was the final killer blow in the arguments being made.

I listened with great interest when the noble Earl came to the question of funding. I have not done any calculations in my head, but I bet that £2.85 billion cap ex spending over three years does not equate to 5% of the NHS budget. As my noble friend intimated to me, when you look at the cost of some of the digital developments that have taken place over the last year or two, you will see that they are highly expensive, in both revenue and capital spending. The noble Earl talked about not ring-fencing We all know the problem of distinguishing between capital and revenue in public spending. That is not to say that that is necessarily right.

Finally, on the idea that we must not tie hands—what is legislation designed to do but to set out parameters?

I thought that the aspect of patient engagement was quite interesting, and I will need to re-read what the noble Earl had to say, because it may be that the current set of duties within the Bill provides for that. That may be a glimmer of hope. Indeed, the whole question about the duty to foster a culture of innovation is a kind of fig leaf. What board is going to treat that as an absolute duty that it needs to plan in and set particular duties to its team for? In a sense, it will be an optional extra if we are not careful.

To tell your Lordships the truth, I am not entirely convinced that we are going to be able to—in the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege—“galvanise” the NHS. I thought that was a splendid word; it has a certain electricity about it. I do not think anything in the current Bill is going to deliver that galvanising impact, and we will be left with the disconnect that the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, talked about if we are not careful. But in the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 26 withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Mawson (CB)]

My Lords, there is just one amendment in this debate. My other two come further on.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, it is a huge pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege. I have signed and strongly support all the amendments tabled by the noble Lord to ensure that integrated care boards are closely connected to local communities. We have riches yet to come: the noble Lord’s later amendments ensure that local solutions are prioritised, and that procurement is firmly rooted in local communities, but I will speak only to Amendment 41A.

I will give an example of when the noble Lord and I have been involved in another project, beyond the very important Bromley-by-Bow project that the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, talked about; namely, the St Paul’s Way Transformation Project, the health, education, jobs and skills, and community campus which started in 2006. It is a great example of a response to the local challenges faced in an east London neighbourhood very close to Bromley-by-Bow, with failing health and education services and community relationships. This transformation project was focused on integration from day one and has been a huge success.

The noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, talked about the extraordinary track record of the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, as a social entrepreneur. He launched this project in partnership with the NHS and Tower Hamlets Council, and brought together the local authority, the local school, the GP network, the local housing association, Poplar Housing and Regeneration Community Association, and the diocese of London, to bring about transformational change in and around St Paul’s Way, a main street running through Poplar. Together they built a new secondary school, new primary school, new health centre, new mosque, new community centre and restaurant, new park, new street scene and 595 new homes. In parallel with this, the quality of the local leadership, and hence of local service provision, was transformed. The failing secondary school moved to Ofsted outstanding, the failed GP practice was replaced and its successor became CQC outstanding, and the independently monitored residents’ satisfaction level is currently 85%.

The St Paul’s Way project has been a great success story of local partnership with other local actors. For example, near neighbour Queen Mary University of London, the governing body of which I chair, with two campuses in Tower Hamlets, and which is intimately involved in the governance of St Paul’s Way Trust School, helped design and develop the school’s new science labs. They are in the health building, which the school uses and where we have taken space for our school of dentistry and DNA research.

Partners in the local schools, the GP practice and the housing association have played an important role in recent years, as they have shared their work and experience with communities in towns and cities across the north of England and now beyond. However, the project faces major challenges, as outdated NHS procurement systems are now in danger of undermining the good work that it has been doing for over a decade. Amid this project being put together, the PCT procured a primary healthcare provider with no London experience, let alone any local experience. After two years, it surrendered the contract because it had not understood that primary healthcare is very different and costs a lot more to deliver in Poplar than in affluent suburbs. This experience is an illustration of the importance of there being a neighbourhood voice in the making of decisions by the NHS, which, if they are got wrong, can damage the ability of local integrated partnerships to function and develop effectively at the neighbourhood level. There is an opportunity to address this in legislation.

In this light, how can the Government make integration a reality? This is a clear example of disconnects that will be replicated on other streets across the country, and a demonstration of what happens when the NHS procurement systems and policy do not take place and neighbourhood seriously. Health is about bringing people and communities together, not undermining them. The solutions are often local and not in large outdated systems and processes. This local approach must be embraced. It is at the 50,000-person neighbourhood level, not an enormous eight-borough ICS where integration aimed at innovation in prevention and recovery can be most effective. Neighbourhood must be understood, valued, and given leverage in the system and flexible use of budgets. It is at this level that the actual practical interventions can happen. It is here that schools, housing, job opportunities and community action can happen. Neighbourhoods can act with speed and agility.

The noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, suggested that the Ministers visit Bromley-by-Bow; equally, I suggest a visit to the St Paul’s Way transformation project. This amendment is as much about creating the right culture as the right representative structure. I hope that the Government accept this important amendment and the other amendments tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, on this subject.

[Baroness Andrews (Lab)]

My Lords, I too was very happy to sign this amendment. I will speak only to it. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, on her very moving speech, and the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, on a very comprehensive speech. I will be brief. In view of the logic of everything that I have heard in debates on previous amendments this afternoon, this amendment is even more important than I thought. When the Committee is discussing how to make the ICBs as effective, powerful, salient and comprehensive as possible for the people that they are bound to serve, all these factors must be taken into consideration, but the power of place itself and the opportunity that the ICB creates to make this manifest, just as the noble Lord, Lord Mawson, has made manifest in Bow, is a unique and highly innovative opportunity, and one which may not come again.

What the noble Lord proposes is extremely modest. It is to give just one person from the partnership voting power. However, it is essential, and it is in the spirit and the logic of what place-based partnerships are intended to do. It means that on the ICB there will be people who can bring nearsight, access and reach into the community to the decisions of the ICBs. They can help to inform those decisions, to bring that knowledge and sensitivity of the lives that people live, what they are faced with, and their specific choices. They are one of the most optimistic partnerships and ideas that we have had in this House for some years.

I have spoken many times in this House on the power of place, what it can achieve and how it affects people’s lives, particularly their health. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, and I published quite a useful report on building better places when we were on the same committee a few years ago. We diagnosed the relationship between good design, good buildings, good environments and good health. Maybe it is time to get that back off the shelf.

What is also useful is that the partnership principle is alive and well and is generating good practice. There is increasing evidence that it works and that there is an increasing exchange of ideas and skills, and we are learning all the time about what is possible. There is nothing to be said against this.

Business and Planning Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard) & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 20th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lansley (Con)]

My Lords, it is a privilege to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and her three co-signatories to Amendment 15. As she rightly said, it is only by virtue of their bringing forward the amendment in Committee that we had the benefit of a very good and persuasive debate last Monday. They won the argument, as evidenced by the Government’s Amendments 13 and 14 and what they said about the guidance that will be issued alongside the no- smoking condition. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for that.

I might say to the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox of Newport, that the Labour Party did not put down such an amendment. I welcome what she said about maintaining positive forward pressure on this vital public health issue, but I remind her that as a result of the coalition Government’s activities—in which we were all participants, including my noble friend Lord Howe—this country was regarded as having the toughest tobacco control regime in the world, perhaps bar Australia, although I think there was a debate about that. The point is to maintain that pressure. The Government’s commitment, which I wholeheartedly support, is to secure a smoke-free England by 2030. The point of this temporary legislation is to support the hospitality and leisure industries, and our debate was about ensuring no retrograde steps away from our objective of banning smoking in public places. We do not want families who expect to go to a public house and have a smoke-free meal to find that they are exposed to second-hand smoke.

Like my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham, I would have liked the Government to have gone a bit further and the guidance to have been more specific—particularly on the points he mentioned, which for brevity’s sake I shall not repeat—but I share his view that the Government’s Amendments 13 and 14 are significant victory. He and his cosignatories to Amendment 15 can take credit for that. I welcome what the Government have done, I hope the House will support Amendments 13 and 14 and that, in consequence, the noble Baroness will not see the need to press Amendment 15.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly in support of Amendment 15, which was so cogently moved by my noble friend and spoken to so persuasively by her co-signatories. In Committee, the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Greenhalgh, said:

“The Government recognise the vital importance of health and safety concerns but we do not believe that imposing a condition to prohibit outdoor smoking would be proportionate.”


He also said:

“The case is now incontrovertible that there are dangers from second-hand and passive smoking.”—[Official Report, 13/7/20; col. 1482.]


I acknowledge that the Government have come part way to meet the amendment, but I hope that, even now, they will change their mind.

I want to address the Minister’s proportionality point, especially in the light of his second statement and this Government’s plans for a smoke-free England by 2030. A new survey conducted between 15 April and 20 June 2020 for ASH and UCL has found that more than 1 million people in the UK have stopped smoking since the Covid-19 pandemic hit the country. A further 440,000 smokers tried to quit during that period. Younger smokers have quit at a much greater rate than older ones: around 400,000 people aged 16 to 29 have quit, compared to 240,000 aged over 50. The rate of quitting for 16 to 29 year-olds is more than twice the rate for those over 50. This is quite unprecedented and hugely encouraging for the health of our nation. Given what the Minister has said about the dangers of passive smoking—and given that smoking-related illnesses linked to worse outcomes from Covid-19 include chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, diabetes, stroke and other heart conditions—is it not proportionate to want to build on the success during lockdown by restricting smoking in public areas in this way, especially as it applies only to these newly permitted outdoor spaces, as my noble friend pointed out?

As fewer people are smoking after lockdown, is it not right to do everything to attract non-smokers back to the outdoor spaces of our hard-pressed pubs, bars and restaurants by providing a smoke-free environment? We are not yet seeing customers return in great numbers—that much is clear from restaurant owners quoted over the weekend. Would this assurance not be of huge benefit in luring them back?

The Government’s amendments are welcome so far as they go, but they are very much half a loaf. I remember only too well that Forest was the principal opponent obstructing my tobacco advertising and sponsorship Bill, and I am sorry that it has been given any credence by this Government.

Amendment 11, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, is also disappointing. It is very disappointing that Labour is not supporting this cross-party amendment, especially when the noble Baroness, Lady Wilcox, quotes the research from UCL and ASH, and the latter is supporting Amendment 15.

I am not going to rub salt in the wound by reminding her why I had to introduce the Tobacco Advertising and Promotion Bill in the first place in 2001. I hope, therefore, that the Government will go the whole way and ensure that the adoption of Amendment 15 will be an important staging post towards a smoke-free Britain.

[Lord Blencathra [V]]

My Lords, despite his eloquence, I am afraid that I cannot agree with the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, since I am opposed to Amendment 15.

The Government have repeatedly underlined the point that this is emergency and temporary legislation. It should not be used as a Trojan horse to ban smoking outdoors for the anti-smoking fanatics. Even the Labour Party’s amendment is not as extreme as that and does permit for some consultation. Initially, I did not understand the ambivalence but, as my noble friend Lord Balfe reminded us in the first group of amendments, it is just indulging in rhetoric. Labour says it cannot support the government amendment, but it seems it will not vote against it. It says that they are holding the Government to account and pressing them hard, but it is not voting against it. This is the sort of irresolute, sitting-on-the-fence opposition I would have loved as a former Whip.

At the moment, smokers use outside tables—perfectly correctly, since they are banned from being inside. There is no danger whatever from passive smoking outside. Those who confess to being worried about the public health impacts of smoke inhalation should ban toxic diesel buses, which are far more dangerous than someone having a fag at a pavement table. There are legitimate arguments for and against smoking outside but, if extremists and ASH want to bring forward a ban on smoking outdoors, there must be proper consultation, proper debate and subsequent legislation—not this sneaky back-door attempt.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe [V]]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 52 on digital ID and I thank the noble Lords, Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, as well as my noble friends Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth and Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom—who was squeezed out by the limit of four proposers. I also thank the British Retail Consortium for its advice. The members are old friends because for many years during my Tesco days, I was the consortium’s deputy chair. It turns out that digital ID is a subject that garners great interest right across the House and indeed, despite her rather discouraging comments in Committee, I discover that it is also of considerable interest to my noble friend the Minister, and her response today will be critical.

There are two key issues. The first is the urgent need for digital ID to complement the system of physical ID on which we currently rely for sales of alcohol, whether in shops or in pubs. This, as the Minister explained in Committee, is because there is no industry standard for digital ID. Ironically, the work on developing it has been delayed by the pandemic until next year, as we heard from the Minister. That seems to be very slow given the security technology that exists and our proficiency in such matters here in the UK.

The situation with alcohol contrasts with that on verifying sales of knives—which is surely more dangerous—tobacco, lottery tickets and fireworks. Digital ID is in regular use in all these areas, despite the lack of this standard. Operators are ready and willing to use this for alcohol too, and it would bring benefits through productivity, fraud control and—this is the second key issue for today—infection control under coronavirus. Its use would remove the need for customers or staff to wash hands or resanitise. There would be no requirement to show paper ID or carry a passport, as some youngsters do when they go out, sometimes leading to loss in my experience. That is a serious matter, given current Passport Office delays. It is especially helpful at automatic check-outs and could speed up queues at pubs and elsewhere.

Our Amendment 52 permits the use of digital verification, provided the licence or certificate holder reasonably believes, with all reasonable precautions and due diligence, that the individual purchasing alcohol is under 18 years old. The amendment is drafted, in effect, to allow the Government a trial for digital ID. It would end after six months, in January, and could be extended once only, by which time we expect the industry standard to be in operation and Covid to be behind us.

We need both a firm commitment from the Government to make this standard happen in the first half of next year and a temporary arrangement to permit the use of digital ID during Covid. For some other requirements, for example at the CMA and ICO, regulators are operating an easement programme during Covid. Another approach that occurs to me is for the Government to give guidance to trading standards that the requirement for paper checks for age ID for alcohol will not be enforced, where there is a reliable digital verification method in operation, until the new standard is adopted. We all want proper enforcement. We must make progress on this, and I look forward to hearing what the Minister says before pressing my amendment.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, Amendment 52, which I have signed and strongly support, is similar but different, in a crucial respect, to the one which the noble Baroness and I tabled in Committee. I am delighted that we are joined by even heavier artillery on Report. In Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, said:

“At present it is not possible to use a digital ID as proof of age for the purchase of alcohol in the UK because there is no industry standard for digital ID… Until such a standard is agreed, the current restrictions should be upheld. I hope that my noble friend will not press her amendment. I shall finish there.”—[Official Report, 13/7/20, col. 1435.]


I am not going to repeat what I said in Committee—for which I am sure the Minister is grateful—but I know she is always open to sound argument. I want to show why her brief in Committee was not entirely accurate.

It is rather misleading to say baldly that there is no industry standard for digital ID. Back in 2016, the age verification group of the Digital Policy Alliance—which has some distinguished and knowledgeable present and former parliamentarians among its members—sponsored a publicly available specification, PAS, code of practice standard number 1296 on online age checking. This was adopted by the British Standards Institution and the independent regulator, the Age Check Certification Scheme. It is now PAS 1296:2018.

A publicly available specification is a voluntary standard intended to assist providers of age-restricted products and services online with a means to adopt and demonstrate best practice and compliance. There are easily available audit processes and services to check conformity with the PAS, involving policy, quality and technical evaluation, and an enormous number of reputable companies provide age-verification services through digital ID systems. As the noble Baroness said, in many ways the UK is leading the way in digital ID. It is active across the range of age-restricted products and services, such as DVDs, gambling, lottery tickets and scratchcards, knives, air weapons, fireworks, petrol, solvents and cigarettes, but not—perversely and uniquely—alcohol.

This is the digital ID marketplace that the Government said they wanted to build, in their call for evidence last year. Most of these companies are UK-based and many are global. Nearly all work to the standard set by PAS 1296:2018. Many of them have other forms of certification and security standards in place, such as ISO 27001. There is an active trade body, the Age Verification Providers Association, whose members—as the Minister probably knows—have just had good news from the High Court in an important judicial review case involving non-implementation of the age-verification provisions of the Digital Economy Act.

Another government department, BEIS, through its Office for Product Safety and Standards, together with the Chartered Trading Standards Institute, provides training that

“will enable participants to confidently apply the PAS 1296:2018”.

Not only is there a form of auditable standard in place, but reputable training in compliance with PAS 1296.

As we pointed out in Committee, this is a strongly deregulatory measure. Retailers have noted that almost 24% of supermarket baskets contain an age-restricted item. As a result of current rules, many customers are waiting longer than necessary. This would ease any congestion, mitigate the risks of queuing, reduce the need for continual sanitisation by staff—as the noble Baroness said—and be for the benefit of all in infection control. Rather than being the last ship in the convoy, can the Home Office not steam ahead on this? The noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, explained that it is essentially a pilot period only. I urge the Government to accept our amendment.

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara [V]]

My Lords, I speak in support of Amendment 52. I very much hope that the Government welcome the spirit of what was said by the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, even if they cannot accept the amendment today—although I hope they can. There are a number of areas in public life where we urgently need a proper age-verification system that deals directly with what an individual can and, on occasion, cannot do. Gambling and access to legal pornography are two that come to mind, but access to alcohol, whether consumed on or off the premises, is under direct consideration today.

The noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, spoke convincingly in Committee and again this evening on the benefits that a digital ID system would bring. This was echoed by the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, who also explained what is happening in the digital marketplace. If, as the noble Baroness says, this boils down simply to putting ID cards, passports or driving licences on mobile phones, it is hard to see why the Government do not grab this initiative. It is already widely used, particularly for verifying age for knife sales.

There may be other work going on in the Home Office on digital ID, but I would be satisfied if the Government today confirmed that they are aware of the benefits of digital ID, supportive of the technology in principle and prepared to work with the industry to resolve any outstanding issues in the near future.

Coronavirus Bill

Lord Clement-Jones Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 25th March 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Clement-Jones]

5: After Clause 84, insert the following new Clause—
“Statutory self-employment pay(1) The Secretary of State must, by regulations made by statutory instrument, introduce a scheme of statutory self-employment pay for those whose work has been impacted as a result of the coronavirus.(2) The scheme must make provision for payments to be made out of public funds to individuals who are—(a) self-employed, or(b) freelancers.(3) Regulations made under subsection (1) may define the meanings of “self-employed” and “freelancers” in subsection (2).(4) The payments to be made under subsection (2) are to be set such that the gross monthly earnings of an individual specified in subsection (2) do not fall below—(a) 80 per cent of their gross monthly earnings, averaged over the previous 3 years (or if records do not date back 3 years, the monthly net earnings averaged for the period records are available), or(b) £2,500,whichever is lower.(5) No payment made under subsection (2) shall exceed £2,500 per month.(6) Regulations made under subsection (1) may provide that payments made under subsection (2) must be paid back via self-assessment if the payments were made in error.(7) A statutory instrument containing regulations under this section is subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution of either House of Parliament.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would ensure that the Government introduced a scheme of statutory self-employment pay.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend Ed Davey prompted an important statement from the Chief Secretary to the Treasury yesterday. In doing so, he acknowledged the way the Chancellor and the Treasury have given support to businesses and employees so far, but emphasised that this will remain incomplete and inadequate until we see proper measures for the 5 million self-employed across the country who are excluded from current financial support for businesses and employees.

That is the motive behind this amendment, which seeks to replicate the Government’s support scheme for those in employment, both in the 80% of gross monthly earnings and in reference to their average earnings over the past three years, with a cap of £2,500. As my old friend Munira Wilson said when introducing a similar amendment in the Commons,

“5 million self-employed and freelancers feel that they have been completely overlooked.”—[Official Report, Commons, 23/3/20; col. 145.]

They are under real stress as a result of the coronavirus crisis. Freelancers and the self-employed are deeply worried, and the rather confused messages coming out of government about when they should go to work do not help.

In his response to my right honourable friend Ed Davey’s Question, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Stephen Barclay, used the phrase “further help is coming”. But while we all understand that there are complications, the Government must move as fast as possible to meet these people’s concerns, because in many cases they are simply running out of money. As my right honourable friend said,

“80% of the 5 million self-employed are sole traders. They are our neighbours, our friends, our family. The vast majority are not wealthy people. They are cleaners, taxi drivers, plumbers, hairdressers; they are musicians, tutors, journalists; and they are builders, electricians and child minders.”—[Official Report, Commons, 24/3/20; col. 208.]

Most of the self-employed have very modest incomes and are not well off. The majority have taxable incomes of less than £10,000 a year, compared with just 15% of employees on incomes that low. Without help, they will not be able to pay their mortgages, rent and bills, and will face financial ruin.

As the Minister may know, I have a particularly strong connection with the creative sector. Freelance work and self-employment is the predominant pattern in the sector. For instance, 73% of those working in the music industry are freelance. A Creative Industries Federation survey last week revealed that 60% of creative freelancers estimate that their income will more than halve in 2020 due to the coronavirus outbreak and that almost 50% of freelancers who responded to the poll had already had 100% of their work cancelled. They, along with 50 creative bodies, Equity, the MU and the Writers’ Guild, have called for an emergency fund that gives a time-limited and carefully targeted cash grant to the self-employed workers and freelancers who need it most.

Other European countries have put in place similar schemes; Norway, for example, has guaranteed temporary income protection for 80% of average self-employed earnings from the past three years, with an annual cap of the equivalent of £45,000. So have France, Belgium and Denmark. An urgent package of help is needed now, which needs to be at least the equivalent of that which has been offered to employees. As I said yesterday in relation to journalists, but it applies across the board for the self-employed and freelancers, they may be forced to ignore government guidance to stay home and plough on with what work is available or face real hardship.

In closing, I was surprised, when I asked the Labour Front Bench to support and sign this amendment yesterday, to be told that it was not a priority in light of the time available for discussion on the Bill. I am glad that they have now changed their tune, especially given the helpful statements of the Mayor of London and John McDonnell yesterday. I urge the Government to be generous and conscious of the necessary urgency in their response. I beg to move.

[Viscount Colville of Culross (CB)]

My Lords, I put my name to this amendment, because I too am about the need for economic support for the self-employed, freelancers and workers on zero-hour contracts. Yesterday, the noble Earl, Lord Courtown, told the House that compensation for these people must be part of a package that is comprehensive, co-ordinated and coherent. However, he was not prepared to put a timetable to that announcement.

As the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, just said, this amendment will give support straightaway to the 5 million self-employed workers, four-fifths of whom fall below the £2,500 a month threshold suggested in subsection (4)(b) of the proposed new clause, which is about the medium wage. It would be in line with the job retention package for employees announced last Friday.

However, I cannot emphasise enough that the scheme needs to be enacted very quickly. Failure to do so is threatening the lives of workers and those they serve. The great fear is that many self-employed workers have to decide between self-isolating and having no money coming into the house. That is particularly so in the care sector. I talked to a support worker on a zero-hours contract at a private residential home in Somerset run by a charitable trust. At best, she works two 15-hour night shifts a week for minimum wage. Together with her husband’s state pension, it is hardly enough to cover her rent and food bills as it is. Her husband is in bad health and vulnerable to the virus. Eventually, after some soul-searching, she decided that in the present crisis she could not threaten his health by continuing to go to work and has gone into self-isolation.

That support worker has done the right thing, even though she will now start running up debts that could take a long time to pay off. But this is a very real dilemma for many lowly paid self-employed people and workers on zero-hours contracts. There are real fears in the care industry that some workers who look after some of the most vulnerable people in this country will ignore any symptoms of the virus and continue going to work because they cannot afford not to. As a country, we cannot take that risk. I urge the Minister to accept the amendment. If he is not prepared to do so, at least will he tell the House when the Chancellor will come forward with a package of help for the self-employed, freelancers and workers on zero-hours contracts? Time is of the essence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness knows, there are various avenues for individuals to utilise. One might be contacting their local Citizens Advice to enable it to make representations. They can contact their Member of Parliament to enable him or her to make representations on their behalf. They are not without the means to communicate if something does not work as it should.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, this has been an extremely valuable debate. All sides of the House have demonstrated how important support for freelancers and the self-employed is. The Minister will know that he commands quite a lot of confidence in this House, so we take him at his word when he gives us an assurance, as he has, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is determined to bring in a scheme that is workable and for precisely this cohort of people—5 million freelance and self-employed people. He has given an important assurance because, as the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, pointed out, we will not have the ability to question Ministers and Members in the Commons will not have the ability to question the Chancellor on the nature of any scheme. In a sense, we have it on trust that something will be done in the coming days. As the noble Viscount, Lord Colville, said, time is of the essence; indeed, “urgent” has been used across the House.

The noble Lord, Lord Adonis, also referred to the Resolution Foundation. Torsten Bell’s interview on the “Today” programme this morning set out a clearly workable scheme along the lines that Norway, Denmark and so on have already introduced, so is it any wonder that there is frustration across at the House with the speed at which the Government are acting in this area? I take entirely the Minister’s point that the nature and scale of what has been done so far is quite extraordinary —one is not trying to minimise that—but this is the next step that must be taken extremely quickly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, pointed out the issue of eviction and other noble Lords have pointed out problems with universal credit, not least concerning means testing, capital assets and so on. None of those mechanisms will fit the bill for freelancers and the self-employed so I urge the Government to move on this with all speed, otherwise they will let down a significant proportion of our working population. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 5 withdrawn.