Budget Statement

Lord Caine Excerpts

Friday 12th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, a key objective of government policy in Northern Ireland since 2010 has been to rebalance the economy by boosting the private sector and bringing in more foreign direct investment. One element of this was to look at reducing the business tax differential with Ireland. Yet, following the Budget, corporation tax is set to rise in Northern Ireland to double the 12.5% rate in Ireland. While I appreciate that CT rates are not the only factor in determining where companies locate, when it comes to deciding between Northern Ireland and Ireland, it can, as I know, be decisive.

In the 2014 Stormont House agreement, the Government agreed to devolve CT powers to the Northern Ireland Executive subject to their finances being on a sustainable footing. The Corporation Tax (Northern Ireland) Act 2015 made provision for this, and all that is required to make the transfer is secondary legislation here.

In the 2015 fresh start agreement, the Executive set a date, 2018, for a 12.5% rate and began marketing this in places such as the US. Regrettably, however, a few months after that agreement, the Executive ran into trouble and, as we know, subsequently collapsed for three years.

The biggest obstacle to devolving has always been that, under state aid rules, the Executive would have to fund any reduction from the block grant. Whether there is any appetite for this in the current climate remains to be seen. Yet I am convinced that reducing the rate of corporation tax in Northern Ireland to at least the same level as that in Ireland could have a transformative impact on the economy, which could in turn help to embed further peace and stability.

The commitment to devolve corporation tax powers made it into the 2019 Conservative Northern Ireland manifesto. I therefore finish by asking my noble friend the Minister whether, in the right circumstances, this remains policy should a request be forthcoming from the Northern Ireland Executive.

Northern Ireland Protocol: Grace Period

Lord Caine Excerpts

Wednesday 10th March 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Caine]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the response of the European Union to the United Kingdom’s decision to extend until October the grace period for checks on certain goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord Frost) (Con)]

My Lords, we have noted the position set out by Vice-President Šefčovič in his statement on 3 March about the limited and temporary operational measures the Government announced last week. These measures are lawful and consistent with the progressive and good faith interpretation of the Northern Ireland protocol. We will carefully consider any further steps the Commission decides it needs to take.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome my noble friend to the Front Bench and congratulate him on his appointment. I strongly support the actions taken by the Government in recent days as a necessary, proportionate and lawful response to the situation in which we currently find ourselves. Does my noble friend agree that the somewhat hysterical reaction of the EU yet again demonstrates its one-sided inability to recognise legitimate unionist concerns and to see the Belfast agreement through all of its strands—an agreement that its intransigence now threatens to undermine? In addition, can my noble friend assure me that this unionist Government will robustly defend any legal actions brought by the EU and that they will take whatever measures are necessary to guarantee Northern Ireland’s place as an integral part of the UK internal market?

[Lord Frost (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his words of support for the decisions taken by the Government last week. Our overriding aim is to protect the Belfast/Good Friday agreement in all its dimensions—all the strands, north-south and east-west. The protocol was designed to achieve this. All sides need to be sensitive to the social and political realities, and the fact that the operation of the protocol rests on the confidence of both communities in Northern Ireland. I reassure my noble friend that we will consider any legal process launched by the EU very carefully; we will defend our position vigorously. The protocol is explicit in respecting the territorial integrity of the UK and we will ensure that is sustained.

Financial Services Bill

Lord Caine Excerpts

Committee stage & Lords Hansard
Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Grand Committee

I hope that this response has provided noble Lords with sufficient reassurance not only on the significant action taken by the Government on the issues raised, but on the future work underway to take these further. I therefore hope that the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, feels able to withdraw his amendment and that other noble Lords do not move theirs.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, I have received a request to speak after the Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted. I call the noble Lord, Lord Sikka.

[Lord Sikka (Lab) [V]]

The group of amendments which we just discussed focused primarily on economic crime. Matters such as tax avoidance and tax evasion have also been mentioned, which are often the domain of the accounting law firms, banks and others. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, is absolutely right in that accountancy trade associations, such as the Institute of Chartered Accountants, also carry out a variety of other regulatory functions; but the question is how well such functions are actually carried out. There have been a number of court cases brought, by HMRC, where the judges have held that the tax avoidance schemes were unlawful. I hope the Minister can help us by telling us whether, after those court judgments, even one big accountancy firm has been investigated, fined or disciplined by the Institute of Chartered Accountants or any other accountancy trade association. Even one example from the past 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 or 100 years will do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to take part in the debate on this second group of amendments. I declare my interests as set out in the register. It is also more than a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, and the elegant way in which she introduced the amendments. I would certainly have added my name to her Amendment 67 had I had any ink left in my pen. I can only express regret that my name is not on it, as it elegantly and excellently expresses her intention, as she has done on her feet today.

In many ways, this is the most important group of amendments that we are considering in Committee. It takes me back to 2017, when we debated the Financial Guidance and Claims Bill, as it was then, and our discussions about duty of care and financial inclusion. It all rings true in these amendments and in our earlier discussions in Committee on financial inclusion objectives, not least for the Financial Conduct Authority.

I am grateful to the Money Advice Trust, Macmillan and StepChange not just for their briefing, advice and commentary for these amendments but for the work that they and all the organisations involved in the debt space do day in, day out—often unsung—dealing with people who find themselves in some of the starkest situations. Those organisations step in, and they deserve our thanks, praise and recognition.

I shall cover Amendments 53, 68, 69 and 111 in my name. I shall also touch briefly on Amendments 54 and 70 in the name of my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, but I shall be mindful not to eat his tea. I feel somewhat nervous speaking before him, with all the expertise he has in this area and in view of his excellent chairmanship of StepChange. This Committee and our nation owe him a tremendous debt for the work that he has done in the area of debt.

Amendment 53 is relatively straightforward. It focuses on the provision of debt advice for those who would fall within the scheme. It hints at the wider point of financial education, not just in schools, as we have discussed in the past, but broadly, throughout life. It was not possible to craft an amendment to the Bill on financial education the way I would have intended. However, I believe that Amendment 53 speaks to that specific intention while having general applicability, broader than just those within the scheme.

Amendment 54, in the name of my friend the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, is an excellent probing amendment, and I shall leave him to walk us through it. Amendment 68 has elements of Amendment 67, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins. It sets out the provisions of the SD scheme and a timetable for its implementation. I am not entirely sure why I opted for December 2024 as the end date for when people would have to have been taken up into the scheme. I may have had the view that the Johnson Administration would go the full five-year distance. On balance, I am probably minded to go with the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins. May is probably a better date; it is certainly reasonable and achievable and gives the right amount of space, with the right amount of road, to enable this scheme to get up and running.

Amendment 69 seeks a consultation on how funding for advice will operate under the scheme and is relatively straightforward. Amendment 70 is, without question, one of the key amendments in this group. It was handsomely set out and I will not eat my friend’s lunch in doing so again. By setting out particular groups, not least SMEs, those with protected characteristics and charities, the noble Lord has done an excellent job in focusing on the key groups and on how such a review should be structured.

Amendment 111, my final one in this group, is concerned with so-called lead generators. In many ways, it goes to the essence of the human condition: the ebb and flow; the give and the take. What we witness with lead generators is, all too often, those taking from those who have the least. The aim of the amendment is straightforward: to end the misery and mental stress that the practice of lead generation, as currently conducted, causes to tens of thousands across the UK. What are lead generators? In essence, they use online tools to crawl the online world in search of those who have entered that environment to try and find solutions to their current debt difficulties. They then serve up the individuals they have captured, if you will, to organisations which seek to “advise” and “help” them. This area is riddled with misleading statements, misrepresentation—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

The Committee will now adjourn for five minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, before I invite the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, to complete his comments, I point out that I completely omitted to put the question when the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, moved her amendment. For clarity, the question before the Committee is that Amendment 52 be agreed to. I call the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond.

[Lord Holmes of Richmond (Con) [V]]

As I was saying, lead generators are involved in misleading and misrepresentation by holding themselves out as organisations such as the Money Advice Trust or StepChange, or representing themselves as government to pull in for financial gain those who sought help for their debt difficulties. It is a pernicious practice, preying on those who are, without doubt, extremely vulnerable as a result of debt. It is unfortunate that the arena for their taking is the world wide web—one of the greatest gifts to humanity from one of the greatest of great Britons, Tim Berners-Lee. It is such a tragedy that his world is populated by these tawdry takers.

Amendment 111 would amend the FSMA to bring lead generators into the world of regulation to end this pernicious practice and to address the current asymmetry in FCA regulation: if you are introducing creditors that is a regulated activity; if you are introducing a debt advice service or the like, that is currently unregulated. The problem is large: StepChange and the Money Advice Trust estimate that at least 10% of those in need who seek their help and that of other debt advice services are caught up in and misdirected by such lead generating practice. That is an extraordinarily high figure.

We often see the world in a grain of sand when we consider personal testimony. One man said: “I am caught up in this world of these people. I am called, if not once, five times a day. Fortunately, I’ve managed to sort out my debt problems, but this harassment from these organisations is almost as bad as the debt itself. It’s having a detrimental effect on my life; it’s having a detrimental effect on my mental well-being.” That is the outcome of this mendacious practice, of this fakery and falsehood, from these tricksters and takers.

When my noble friend the Minister considers Amendment 111, would he agree that when individuals look for support in their hour of need as a result of a debt situation, they should find help, not harm? I am delighted that the amendment has the number 111; it is a single Nelson of an amendment. It is a single amendment with a single intention: for it to pass to make one single, simple change that will help hundreds of thousands. Will my noble friend the Minister channel his inner Nelson and give Amendment 111 its victory?

[Lord Stevenson of Balmacara (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a former chair of StepChange Debt Charity. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, for their kind words about the work we have done with StepChange and all the other groups involved in supporting the repayment of debt and the management of unmanageable debt. It has been a pleasure to work with them and I have listened to their words very carefully, but it has also been wonderful, over the years I have been working on this issue in your Lordships’ House, to see the number of people who have become interested in it and who are prepared to join in and support it grow. It is now a very solid group with very firm views about how things should move forward, as we just heard.

I was very struck by what the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, said about the way people prey on those who have problems with debt. When I was working at StepChange we decided to change the name from the rather uncomfortable Foundation for Credit Counselling, which no one ever used. It was not a foundation, we did not deal with credit, and we did not counsel. It was a problem to get across what we did do, but we decided to be bold, as one is when coming to a new organisation and thinking about how you might change it. We decided to go for a name that took us away from any descriptive elements, and came up with StepChange.

One thing that we did not expect, which plays back to what the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, said, was that within 24 hours of our name being announced to the world there were between 15 and 20 groups preying on the same group of people we were trying to help, in exactly the way that the noble Lord described: they had changed their names to variations on StepChange. They also changed their colour coding, the whole look of their websites and the whole way that they approached potential customers. It was a wonderful example of the difficult area in which we operated. Here we were, trying to help people who were desperate to repay the debt that they had got themselves into. They were, by and large, decent, ordinary people for whom something had gone wrong with their lives and as a result they were spiralling into unmanageable debt. Yet here were these other companies trying to make money out of them, as the noble Lord explained. It was just awful, and to do so in a way that showed that they were watching how we operated in the market and were prepared to copy our techniques to get people to pay them money which they could not afford in order to get out of debt, was an extraordinary basis.

That leads into the amendments in this group, which are largely about trying to work with the Government in their good and well-thought-through plans, which are slowly coming to fruition. Perhaps they could go a little faster, but that is part of this discussion. My principal point is that I want us to support what the Government are doing because they are on the right track. We would like to do anything that we can to help them.

I have two amendments in this group and would have signed others, but I did not need to because they have a lot of support in other areas. Amendment 54 probes the nature and content of the regulations that will establish the statutory debt management scheme, which is complementary to and foreshadowed by the debt respite scheme mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond. Amendment 70 calls for a formal review of the debt respite and statutory debt management schemes within a two-year period after Royal Assent. It looks very straightforward on the surface but when the Minister responds I am sure that he will realise where the amendment is trying to take him. It has the same impact as the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, and the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, which is that we are a bit worried about the time that it has taken to get this scheme going. The idea was—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, as there is a Division in the Chamber, the Committee will adjourn for five minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Caine) (Con)]

My Lords, the Committee will now resume.

Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland: Border Controls

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Caine]

To ask Her Majesty's Government what assessment they have made of the impact on the operation of the Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland of (1) the withdrawal of local and European Union officials from border control posts in Northern Ireland, and (2) the suspension of inspections on goods entering Northern Ireland at the Ports of Belfast and Larne.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Lord True)]

My Lords, I know that the whole House will join me in strongly condemning all threats and intimidation. These will never guide the actions of Her Majesty’s Government. But there has been strong concern right across the community at the EU’s actions on Friday. Urgent action is now needed to restore confidence and address outstanding issues with the protocol, which we will take forward urgently with the EU next week.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, while all intimidation by members of paramilitary groups must be totally condemned, does my noble friend agree that the strength of feeling in Northern Ireland is the entirely predictable consequence of the one-sided approach adopted by the European Commission, which has only ever seen these issues from an Irish nationalist perspective? Indeed, I warned Monsieur Barnier directly of this when I saw him in June 2018. Does my noble friend agree that the time has come for the Commission to show flexibility, pragmatism and sensitivity over the implementation of the protocol, respecting all parts of the Belfast agreement and the constitutional and economic integrity of our United Kingdom? If it does not, then surely the Government must consider more robust measures.

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I underline what I said in my first Answer. It is clearly hugely disappointing and surprising to many that the EU proposed to take such a significant step without any notification—indeed, without even notifying the Irish Government. I profoundly agree with my noble friend that it now behoves us all to take appropriate and lasting action to address the questions of concern.

Dunlop Review

Lord Caine Excerpts

Monday 1st February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I have asked for a little patience from your Lordships’ House, but it will have been noted that you are asking for an early publication. What I would underline is what I said before: that we are working positively with the devolved Administrations in many of the areas covered by Dunlop, particularly to establish new intergovernmental structures. The Prime Minister has established the union policy implementation committee—a Cabinet committee to ensure that the Government’s priorities in relation to the United Kingdom are delivered—and work is going on.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, the Dunlop review also includes Northern Ireland. Notwithstanding the findings of some recent internet polls that use a self-selecting online sample, does it remain the Government’s view that a clear majority of the people of Northern Ireland continue to support the union, and that the requirements for a border poll are not satisfied? In the event of such a poll, would it be the policy of this Conservative and Unionist Government to use their union capability to campaign actively to keep Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom?

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are fully committed to the Belfast agreement, which sets out the circumstances that would require a border poll. Those are that, if at any time it appears likely that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the UK, they are obliged to call a referendum. The Government continue to monitor the evidence in this regard, but I can tell my noble friend that there is no clear evidence to support the idea that that is the case at this time. I can assure him that, were that ever to happen, this Government would campaign on the basis that the United Kingdom is a family of nations that works for everyone.

Protocol on Northern Ireland: Disruption to Trade

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord in his overall characterisation of the position. This Government are absolutely resolute that Northern Ireland remains an integral part of the United Kingdom and will remain so as long as its people determine. As I have acknowledged to the House, certain practical issues have arisen; these are being addressed maturely and sensibly by the Government, suppliers and business, and I believe that that is the way we should proceed, without, at this stage, talking about Article 16.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s efforts to iron out what we all hope are teething troubles, and also the commitments made yesterday by the Prime Minister that they will do whatever is necessary to ensure that goods can move freely from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. Whatever one’s view of the protocol, can my noble friend assure the House that it does not in any way change Northern Ireland’s constitutional status, which, under the terms of the Acts of Union and the consent provisions of the Belfast agreement, remains a full and integral part of our United Kingdom?

[Lord True (Con)]

Yes, my noble friend is right: the protocol and our implementation of it fully protects Northern Ireland’s status as an integral part of our United Kingdom. That must remain the case. As I have said, there are teething problems and we have to address these, but if they ever become disproportionate, then that is the time, as my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said, when further action would have to be considered.

European Union (Future Relationship) Bill

Lord Caine Excerpts

3rd reading & 2nd reading & Committee negatived & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard) & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & Committee negatived (Hansard) & Committee negatived (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I will make four very brief points in this historic debate.

First, the Government and the Prime Minister are to be strongly congratulated on securing this landmark future relationship agreement. What has been achieved should not be underestimated, and this House should have no hesitation in supporting the agreement and the passage of this Bill.

Secondly, like so many others, I fervently hope that the agreement can finally resolve an issue that has poisoned our politics and divided our peoples like no other issue since the Irish home rule debates over a century ago. Although in many respects a Eurosceptic, like the majority of your Lordships I voted remain in 2016. However, from the moment the referendum result was announced, I believed strongly that it was the duty of the United Kingdom Government and Parliament to deliver the democratic verdict of the people of this country to leave the EU. With this agreement, surely the time has now come to put the “leave” and “remain” labels behind us and try as a political class to unite our country to make a success of our new relationships with both Europe and the wider world.

Thirdly, while I support the agreement and the Bill, there remain significant anxieties in Northern Ireland regarding the need for regulatory checks down the Irish Sea. While the free trade provisions of this agreement will go some way to mitigating a number of these, they will not entirely remove them. There are particular concerns in Northern Ireland that companies from Great Britain could be deterred from supplying Northern Ireland markets, thus leading to reduced consumer choice in some areas. Would my noble friend assure the House in winding up that the Government will continue to monitor this situation very closely and that, if there is any evidence that Northern Ireland is being disadvantaged, they will not hesitate to take the appropriate action in the joint committee established for such purposes?

Fourthly and finally, there is little doubt that events since June 2016, as we have sought to extricate ourselves from one Union, have placed enormous strains on our much older union here at home. For those of us who value the maintenance of the United Kingdom above all else in politics and sit here proudly as Conservatives and Unionists, these have been and remain very difficult times. Hopefully this agreement will steady some nerves and stabilise the situation, but with important elections approaching we cannot afford an ounce of complacency. In conclusion, therefore, I urge the Government to approach with renewed vigour and determination the need to develop, across party lines where appropriate, a modern and compelling case for our union that we can take to all four parts of our country to secure our future outside the EU as one nation and one United Kingdom.

Union Capability: Dunlop Review

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, good contacts exist between the UK Government and devolved Administrations. I recently reported to the House on the positive development in the review of intergovernmental relations. I assure the House that the Government take these matters seriously. The Prime Minister has set up a Cabinet committee for union policy implementation to support the delivery of policies that sustain our union.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, far too often, the unionist case is framed by references to what we achieved together in the past, when we urgently need a modern compelling unionist vision for the future of our United Kingdom? This is unlikely to be the preserve of any one party; what is required is for unionists across the United Kingdom to come together and make common cause, if we are to preserve our great union and defeat those who would tear it apart.

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, I very strongly agree with my noble friend, and spoke yesterday of the importance of not imputing bad intent where there is none. We are at our strongest when we work as one union, with the needs of all our citizens as the priority. The UK Government have provided billions in support of businesses and individuals in all parts of the UK during the Covid crisis. Our welfare system has been able to support people across the UK and our armed services have been invaluable. My noble friend is quite right: this is a story that unionists from all parties should tell.

Northern Ireland Protocol: Implementation Proposals

Lord Caine Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord True (Con)]

My Lords, in relation to the trader support service, I can report to the House that, whereas my honourable friend in the House of Commons said that 7,000 businesses had signed up, 9,000 businesses have now signed up, with hundreds more joining every day. We will shortly set out further support for agri-food producers engaging with new SPS processes.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend share my concern that far too many people see this issue solely through the prism of strand 2 of the Belfast agreement and of avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland? Will he confirm that the 1998 agreement contains three strands, while the consent principle underpins Northern Ireland’s position as an integral part of our United Kingdom? As such, is it not imperative that Northern Ireland continues to benefit from free and unfettered access to what is by far its largest single market?

[Lord True (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point and I can certainly reassure him that the Government remain committed to the Belfast/Good Friday agreement in its entirety, including all three strands; east-west is vital, as he says. We are delivering on our unequivocal commitment to deliver unfettered access, and I hope very much that noble Lords will reconsider their obstruction of the legislation on that subject.

Covid-19 Lockdown: Economic Support

Lord Caine Excerpts

Wednesday 4th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Agnew of Oulton (Con)]

My Lords, as I am sure the noble Lord knows, we have provided some £14 billion of funding to the devolved authorities. That is important because £1.3 billion was announced on 9 October. It is there to support businesses: in Scotland, for example, we have been able to support nearly 1 million jobs, some 6,500 businesses and 240,000 people in employment. I am aware of no proposal to change the 80% furlough either in England or in Scotland.

[Lord Caine (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the economic support being provided by the Government, which is unprecedented in our peacetime history. Despite that, is it not the case that, as we approach Christmas, very many individuals and businesses face an uncertain future, particularly in retail, hospitality and leisure? Therefore, does my noble friend agree that, for the economic health and well-being of our entire nation, it is vital that the second lockdown does not extend a moment beyond 2 December?