International Development Outcomes for Women and Girls
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, not for the first time the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, deserves our gratitude for concentrating our minds on victims and survivors of international crimes, especially on women and girls in need of access to life-sustaining support. In my three minutes, I will focus on Sudan and Nigeria.
Sudan is facing a second genocide in two decades. This includes a war on women, which I referred to on Tuesday during Question Time and will do so again on Friday next week in my debate on the Genocide Determination Bill. Targeted, unspeakable violence, systemic use of rape as a weapon of war, extreme famine and catastrophic displacement mean that millions of Sudanese women and girls are plunged into peril. As the noble Baroness told us, 17 million women and girls in Sudan are now in need of assistance.
A truly shocking UN report on CRSV in Sudan reports that women whom it interviewed in West Darfur were being asked, before being raped, which tribe they belonged to. One replied, “Masalit”. The perpetrators said they would kill her. Another, before being subjected to gang rape, was told:
“‘If you are Masalit, we will slaughter you today’ … Others were told, ‘You will be our wives’, ‘You slave’, ‘You are our women,’ and ‘This year, all of you Masalit girls deliver our children’”.
If these women somehow survive, they will need sustained help but also justice, which has been absent since the first genocide in Darfur some 20 years ago.
Meanwhile, in Nigeria, whole communities have been targeted by Boko Haram, Islamic State West Africa Province and Fulani militia. They target girls, often abducting them from schools. The Minister knows and has responded to me about the case of Leah Sharibu, who, eight years ago, aged 14, was kidnapped, impregnated, raped, forcibly married and told to convert. She remains unrescued in captivity. Last November, more than 300 children, many of them girls, and staff, were kidnapped by gunmen from a Catholic school in central Nigeria in one of the worst mass abductions the country has seen. Such attacks are common, but they receive too little attention.
In this context, in 2024, UK officials considered increasing our ambition on support for the protection of civilians, including atrocity prevention. An internal options paper outlined four broad options for scaling up protections of civilians and establishing an international protection mechanism. Of the options, the FCDO opted to take the fourth and least-ambitious option.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, I am sorry—I know this is unconventional—but that is factually incorrect. That did not happen, and I want to make that clear to the Committee at this point.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, for bringing us together to have this discussion. It is incredibly important that we do so, and it speaks to the level of interest and concern across our House that so many noble Lords have chosen to come and take part in this Committee this afternoon. I know personally how committed the noble Baroness is to improving the lives of women and girls around the world. This is not a new thing for her; she has spent many years doing this, and I value and respect her work. I know how much everybody here cares about this issue.
I have to respond to the noble Lord, Lord Alton. I understand where the noble Lord read what he spoke about; it was recently raised with me, too, at the International Development Committee. I have responded formally in writing to the committee specifically on the issues raised by the noble Lord. I can categorically assure him that no such proposal ever came to any Minister and that the least effective options were not selected. That did not happen. I am very happy to meet the noble Lord and whoever he wishes to bring along to discuss these matters in as much detail as he would like, because I know that his aim is true and that what he wants is the same as what I want, which is to see a resolution to this heinous conflict.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
I do not doubt the Minister’s sincerity at all—she knows that. I did not say that proposals had been sent to her. I said there had been four sets of proposals and stakeholders had been involved in them. What I said was that a particular, most ambitious proposal was put to one side and the least ambitious proposal was the one that was adopted. Which Ministers agreed to see those proposals in the first place, I do not know, but as she said, this was said at a Select Committee of the House of Commons, and it has been said in the national media. This was not something I pulled out of thin air. I am grateful to her as it would be good to have sight of the letter she has written. She knows that before the Genocide Determination Bill is considered next Friday, a request was made by her noble friend Lady Kennedy of The Shaws and me to see the Foreign Secretary. I hope the Minister will relay that request again.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I would be very happy to do that. I know that the noble Lord does not pull these things out of thin air; I am familiar with where this has come from. I have said what I have said, we can get into it in more depth, and I would be very happy to do that.
The Government have put the safety and rights of women and girls at the heart of the UK’s development and international work more generally. We have done this because, as many noble Lords have said, advancing gender equality is the right thing to do, but it is also the best way to alleviate poverty, build economies and support women leaders, and countries need women leaders in order to thrive. I think everybody here understands and agrees with that. Women strengthen democracies, advance peace and security, and drive prosperity. That is why the Foreign Secretary made women and girls a stand-alone priority for the FCDO. It is also why I am a SheDecides champion, supporting sexual and reproductive health and rights, and women’s rights to choose.
We now have the framework in place to turn our ambitions into reality. I would like more money for this agenda, and I think that contributions that highlight the ODA budget cuts are absolutely legitimate and fair. What is less fair, I think, is any suggestion that we have somehow not understood the impact that this could have, that we have not been open and transparent about the decisions that we have made, or that we have not consciously and deliberately amended those choices in order to, as far as we possibly can, within the budget that we have, make sure that women and girls, within the constraints that exist, remain central to everything we do. At the end of the day, development is all about women and girls. They benefit from every penny that we spend, and we have to make sure that that continues.
In May, we launched the UK’s international strategic framework on women and girls. This sets out how we will advance the safety, prosperity, voice—that is vital—and choice of women and girls, bringing together our diplomatic, development and multilateral efforts behind a clear set of priorities.
I was asked about mainstreaming. I completely understand the misgivings that were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, about this. I agree with her—we have to be alert to that—but we have committed that by 2030, at least 90% of the UK’s bilateral ODA programmes will contribute to gender equality, ensuring that women and girls remain central to our work even as our budget is reduced. We are making progress. In 2024, 81% of FCDO bilateral ODA projects were marked as making a principal or significant contribution to gender equality. That is up from 58% in 2022. This means that we are designing programmes that better address the barriers faced by women and girls across our portfolio while continuing targeted action where that is needed. I will say a little bit about that as well.
A number of contributions raised concerns about the impact of the reduction in spending. These cuts are a reality. They were significant, which is why—I think this is the first time this has been done—we took the decision to publish the equalities impact assessments for our allocations for the next three years. They tell us that there is no disproportionate negative impact on women and girls across our multilateral and central spending.
I will be honest about how this came about. We made a set of decisions and commissioned the equalities impact assessment. It came back and I did not like what I was reading, so we changed some decisions as a consequence and published the assessment. That is why noble Lords will see some programmes protected, even though in their essence they go against some of the changes and modernisation moves that we wanted to make in our development spend, because they are centrally managed programmes. They are run in a way which is about service provision. They could be accused—it seems an odd thing to say—of generating dependency or being duplicate systems. But if we were not looking at giving out contraception in areas of the Sahel, then the idea that you could strengthen a government system that would be willing to do that work is, I think, just not realistic or practical at this stage, so those things continue.
We have protected central programme spending both on violence against women and girls and on women, peace and security, where our work continues to support women peacebuilders and women’s rights organisations in some of the world’s most dangerous and fragile places. We have protected funding for Education Cannot Wait, ensuring that girls continue to get an education in even the most difficult conditions, and we have increased the proportion of country and regional spending in fragile and conflict-affected states, where women and girls are often at the most risk. This will rise to over 70% of our portfolio by 2028-29.
Like noble Lords, including—I am so sorry, I want to call her Lynne, which I know is highly inappropriate—the noble Baroness, Lady Featherstone, I have had the privilege to serve as a Development Minister, as others have too. I have been there in makeshift shelters listening to women who have endured the worst experiences that most of us could ever imagine: in Chad, with women fleeing the war in Sudan; with Rohingya women in Bangladesh; and with those escaping hideous conflict in DRC. I have heard their stories, held their children and their hands, and I know, as many have rightly said, that they are not numbers or names on a list. In the words that we have heard this afternoon and which were said to me by women on these occasions, they are our sisters. We support these women, though not just with aid. We must do more. We have to make ourselves really focus on the outcomes that we achieve, not just what we put into the system. We have to be responsible for the outcome of everything that we spend.
As the UK shifts from being a donor to a long-term partner and investor, we have got to focus on strengthening the systems that countries rely on, so that they can thrive even when aid is cut. The modern partnerships we are seeking to build will use investment and economic growth to expand opportunity for women and girls. That is one reason why British International Investment’s new strategy will increase investments supporting women’s economic empowerment from 25% to 30% of its core portfolio. This investment will support more women for longer, and in a more sustainable way, than traditional programming ever could.
We must have some humility about the limit of what our traditional aid spending could ever achieve. The world spends around $70 billion ODA in Africa; the development gap is $1.3 trillion, so there is a lot more that needs to be done. There is money in markets in Europe and North America that never goes anywhere near Africa. Part of our role, the leadership that the UK can provide, is about making sure that that money can get into those developing economies and do real good in the longer term.
As noble Lords have said, we must not just contend with cuts in ODA. There was a real issue with rollback and political hostility to this agenda. Our commitment to this agenda is reflected not just in the choices we have made here but in our wider diplomatic work. In May, the Foreign Secretary announced a new international coalition to end violence against women and girls, to prevent violence, protect women and girls, and hold perpetrators to account. Next year, the UK will convene a major summit on tackling violence against women and girls, providing a platform for countries to set out further commitments and report on progress so that we can learn from each other.
As noble Baronesses—mostly—have said, we want the multilateral system to raise its standards and build coalitions, defending the global consensus on women’s rights in international conventions and agreements, and in our partnerships with multilateral institutions. I could go on a lot more about our commitment to Gavi and the Global Fund and how we are now the biggest contributor to UNFPA, but we are probably short of time.
Women and girls’ rights are fundamental to global stability, prosperity and sustainable development. That is why we have taken decisions on where we spend our ODA mindfully. While budgets have changed, our commitment absolutely has not, and we will continue to champion the safety and rights of women and girls around the world because it is the right thing to do and is fundamental to the prosperity, security and stability that we seek for every woman and every girl everywhere.
Darfur: Atrocities
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Lord Alton of Liverpool
To ask His Majesty’s Government, following atrocities in El Fasher in the Darfur region of Sudan, what assessment they have made of (1) the situation in El Obeid, and (2) of the likelihood of further genocide in Sudan.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
The Government are deeply concerned by reports of a potential RSF offensive on El Obeid. Last year, unimaginable horrors unfolded in El Fasher. The RSF has moved troops towards El Obeid and sent dozens of drone strikes. The risk of grave atrocities is acute. The UK maintains that genocide should be determined by a competent court. This does not prevent us taking action. The Foreign Secretary has sounded the alarm on El Obeid, mobilising the international community through the UN Security Council and the Human Rights Council and raising it directly with counterparts.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. The Foreign Secretary has said:
“El Obeid is on the precipice of an atrocity”,
in a country with an estimated 150,000 fatalities and between 14 million and 15 million displaced people. Given that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said yesterday, without a court determination, that what has been happening bears all “the hallmarks of genocide”, how does the Minister counter the criticism of the Government and their policies made yesterday at the International Development Committee of another place? In order to prevent further atrocities, as penholder at the United Nations Security Council, will we now demand an emergency debate, work for the extension of the arms embargo across Sudan and consider the deployment of blue helmets and the imposition of a no-fly zone?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I was at the International Development Committee yesterday, and I thought the evidence provided by the witnesses was compelling and impressive. I did not agree with it all, but I thought that those giving evidence did themselves a great deal of credit. I have asked officials this morning for renewed advice on duty to prevent and whether our responsibilities under the genocide convention are engaged in this instance, given what has happened so recently in El Fasher. The noble Lord will know that, up to now, the UN Secretary-General has deemed that the deployment of a force to protect civilians or a peacekeeping force would not be possible in this situation for reasons of there being no peace to keep and the difficulties of doing that, but we will continue to look at all available avenues in this situation. We do not want to see, as we did in El Fasher, another siege situation and all that unfolded at the end of that.
Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda: Ebola Outbreak
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It is in an early phase and we are looking at trying to get a vaccine developed. I do not know whether that is specifically with India or with private sector partners, but it may be that a vaccine that has already been tested is effective against this strain. We hope that is the case, though there is an immediate need to get equipment into the region and distributed. We need to make sure that it is used correctly and to plan for how we will be able to distribute vaccine, as and when it is available, because the major barrier here is the complexity and the conflict going on. As the noble Lord will know, many different non-state armed groups are present in the area.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, given what the Minister has rightly said about the systemic challenges facing aid workers and others in the east of the DRC, will she look carefully during her visit to the region at the effect of the large numbers of displaced people now in refugee camps? Those are the perfect breeding ground for diseases of any kind, but especially of Ebola. What is being done to assess the role that ISIS affiliates are now playing? I suspect that she has seen some of the material I sent her recently about attacks on minorities, including the burning down of churches, and on people living in remote villages. What more can we do about that?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
What we can do about that is a very big question, but I visited Beni in the east of the DRC earlier this year and I know exactly the context that the noble Lord describes. We have the ADF, FDLR and M23 there; we may be able to engage with some of these groups, or maybe others can, but with others it will be far more difficult. Where those actors have control, in the end they will be responsible for responding to this outbreak. That injects a whole other level of complexity and difficulty into this, but we cannot let that put us off doing what needs to be done to save lives from this outbreak.
Sudan
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord is absolutely right. This is not particularly a challenge with money; last week, the international community rallied together and raised more than £1 billion to spend on aid for the people of Sudan. As he rightly says, it is how we get that aid to the people who need it most. We are doubling the amount that we spend with local responders, because often they are the right people and the best people to co-ordinate in the most effective way on the ground. It is vital that the warring parties in Sudan, and anyone who is obstructing access for aid, stops doing that immediately. It has almost become competitive, to see who can put the most restrictions on agencies, which are hoping to get aid to where it is needed. It is completely wrong—the aid is there and the resources are there, and we just need the ability to get access.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in this fourth year of Sudan’s war, will the Minister take the opportunity to underline the link between the 14 million people whom the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees says are displaced in Sudan and the desperate Sudanese people who end up in small boats in the English Channel? Secondly, can she say how the Government are responding to what a UN report says are defining characteristics—“hallmarks of genocide”—with mass killings of over 59,000 people, rampant sexual violence and war crimes, including attacks on hospitals, ambulances and medical workers?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord knows, the UK is supporting a sexual and gender-based violence representative to make sure that there is accountability. The fact that sexual violence is used in the way that it is, to the extent that it is in Sudan, often with absolute impunity, is something that the international community needs to act on now and make sure that we reflect on constantly once this is over, because it is something we have seen before, we see it repeatedly and we need to be steadfast in our determination to outlaw it. What the noble Lord says about displaced people is also correct: there are Sudanese people finding their way into small boats and crossing to the UK, but by far the largest number of Sudanese displaced people—around 5 million of them—are living on the border, either in Chad, in South Sudan, in Uganda or in Egypt. That is where the majority of people are and where the focus of our support is, to help those people close to their homes.
BBC World Service: Sustainability
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It is important that the BBC has editorial independence, but there is no doubt that there were issues that needed to be responded to following the Prescott revelations. I was pleased to see the way that the BBC reacted to that; it owned the problem and it has put in place measures to deal with it. The noble Lord started his comments by saying that we are being outspent by other nations, and that is undoubtedly true—welcome to the enlightened side of this debate.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, has the Minister had the chance to read the debate in your Lordships’ House on 26 February about the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights on transnational repression? Specifically, has she read the evidence that was given by Reporters Without Borders about the plight of journalists who have been reporting on events in Iran? In particular, she will see there that women journalists have been treated in the most appalling manner conceivable—independent journalists who have been left bleeding on the streets of London. Will she ensure that we take the cross-departmental action that is recommended in that report at the earliest opportunity?
Jimmy Lai: Prison Sentence
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I explained just now about the BNO passport holders—if the noble Lord knew anything about this at all, he would understand that that will be absolutely opposed by China—so we have already done that. We will continue to make the case, and we now have a better ability to do that than we had previously. I reiterate that the issue around the embassy was completely unconnected from this issue, and I remind him that formal diplomatic consent for the embassy was given in 2018 by the former Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, Sebastien Lai, Jimmy Lai’s son, whom many in the House know, said this morning that he had not spoken to his father for five years and that he regarded this sentence—20 years, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, has said—on a 78 year-old British citizen as a death sentence. As we think about Jimmy Lai and the other pro-democracy advocates who are also incarcerated in CCP prisons inside Hong Kong, our thoughts and prayers will be with them and with his family. His only crime is journalism; his only crime is a belief in democracy; his only crime is free speech. Can the Minister tell us how we intend to co-ordinate international pressure among like-minded democracies to ensure that this travesty, which has been committed in the name of justice, is exposed for what it is and put right?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It is outrageous that Jimmy Lai has not had contact from his family—that is inhumane. We continue to argue that he should have that contact and consular assistance. The Foreign Secretary has spoken to Secretary Rubio about this, and noble Lords will know that President Trump intends to visit China later this year, so we will continue to raise this with all our allies and partners.
Iran
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, will the Minister commit that we will be unrelenting in working with like-minded nations in holding to account those who have been responsible for these atrocities, these massacres, on such a scale? Before the House debates the report of the Joint Committee on Human Rights on transnational repression, on 26 February, will she undertake to go back and look at the evidence about the persecution of BBC Persian journalists, independent journalists and pro-democracy activists in this country, and at the current inquiry of the Charity Commission into one charity which has been promoting the IRGC and its narrative? Secondly, will the Minister look at the potential use of Wilton Park as a place to bring together the disparate elements who form the opposition—not least people such as Maryam Rajavi but also supporters of other groups—to see whether a proper alliance can be constructed of like-minded groups to promote democracy and the rule of law?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I completely agree with the noble Lord on accountability, and we have used our position on the Human Rights Council to further that and to get missions in place to gather the facts that are needed. I will of course read what he suggests on transnational repression; it is incredibly important, and I will make sure that I do that. I have not looked at the Charity Commission issue that he raised, but I will commit to doing so. I welcome the suggestion around Wilton Park; it is a very useful opportunity to get people together in a closed environment to have the kind of conversations that can make a real difference to these situations.
China: Jimmy Lai
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I thank my noble friend. I confirm that the Prime Minister has met Sebastien Lai. I will convey to him the desire for further such meetings to relay any information, or the content of conversations, that may be of interest.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in affirming what the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, said, has the Minister seen what Sebastien Lai said last week in advance of the Prime Minister’s visit to Beijing? He said:
“Whether my father is freed or not is the ultimate test”.
When Sebastien comes here tomorrow night to speak to the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Arbitrary Detention and Hostage Affairs, what are we to say to him about this 78 year-old man who has spent some 1,800 days in solitary confinement and is likely to die there unless he is released soon? I am not opposed to us visiting China, but why did we go to Beijing with the title deeds to a mega-embassy in our back pocket without first extracting an assurance that there would be some reciprocity with the release of Jimmy Lai?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We agree that Jimmy Lai ought to be released immediately because he should not be imprisoned. It is right that the UK Government engage with China. After such a long time of the UK not having engaged in this way, this is not the sort of situation where we get everything we want with one visit. The relationship will improve. It is good that we are engaging and that we are clear on what we expect and want to happen for Jimmy Lai. Engagement and challenge are not mutually exclusive; they go hand in hand.
China: Human Rights and UK National Security
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, human rights are a non-negotiable part of this Government’s approach to China. During his recent visit, the Prime Minister raised human rights and the case of Jimmy Lai with President Xi. The Government will continue to press China on human rights and work with international partners to ensure that China is held to account for its human rights violations. Upholding national security is the first duty of this Government and underpins all our international relationships.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. However, given that no discussions with the sanctioned parliamentarians have taken place, either before the visit or since, can she give us greater clarity on what was and was not agreed? Thus far, it remains unclear whether the sanctions on my family and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, have been lifted. Perhaps more importantly, no mention has been made of the sanctions on Sir Geoffrey Nice KC, Dr Jo Smith Finley, Essex Court Chambers, the Conservative Party Human Rights Commission and Tim Loughton, one of the parliamentarians who are no longer Members of the House of Commons.
Neither the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, nor I sought or wanted any kind of preferential treatment. We wanted justice for those who have suffered at the hands of the CCP, whether they are the hundreds of pro-democracy advocates who are incarcerated alongside Jimmy Lai in prisons in Hong Kong, or those who have suffered as a result of the genocide in Xinjiang.
In 2021, I moved an amendment to the Trade Bill to outlaw free trade agreements with countries perpetrating genocide. The Minister will recall that we had China and the appalling treatment of the Uyghurs in mind. The Prime Minister himself voted for the amendment three times. On this visit, the Prime Minister said that the previous Government had pursued an “ice age” in their relations with China. Yet those amendments were right then; why are they wrong now? Was the House of Commons wrong to vote for a declaration of genocide against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang? Can the Minister please assure us that the UK’s sanctions against the four Chinese Communist Party officials responsible for the genocide in Xinjiang remain in place, and that no new state visit by Xi Jinping will take place until the genocide ends?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord, and I admire hugely the consistency with which he raises these issues. He is absolutely right to say that, although there is clearly some progress on the measures that have affected our parliamentarians and, as he says, former parliamentarians such as Tim Loughton, those measures should obviously be lifted immediately. We are continuing conversations to get absolute clarity on which measures and which people, and to make sure that that is complete.
On the things that we voted for in opposition, when you are in opposition and have a Government who took the position that they did, there are only certain things that you can do to highlight these issues. The approach that this Government are taking is based far more upon engagement and dialogue and attempting to rebuild the relationship in order to get the progress that everybody here would like to see. We have more options at our disposal now, so we are attempting to approach these important matters in a different way. As the noble Lord knows, I cannot comment on sanctions, but I note what he says.
United States: Withdrawal from International Organisations
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are completely committed to the framework on climate change and to the Paris Agreement; that is not going to change. The best thing we can do is to be clear about our position and clear about what we see as the economic benefits of transition away from the use of fossil fuels. I think many countries are coming to agree with us on this because of the impact on climate, of course, but also because of the benefits to them in relation to the cost of production and energy sovereignty.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, let us make a note about further mass graves being discovered in Darfur and the continuing conflict in Sudan. Will the Minister please take every opportunity to emphasise the links between conflict and justice, and conflict and displacement, with over 120 million people displaced in the world? In particular, will she emphasise our commitment to the 1948 convention on the crime of genocide and the duty to predict, to prevent, to protect and to punish?
Iran: Protests
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
First, it is not correct that our ambassador in Tehran was summoned. They had a conversation when they attended the MFA for another purpose, but that is a very different situation from the one reported, which I think the noble Lord will have read. We do not comment about proscriptions ahead of time and we keep them under close review. However, I point noble Lords to the work done by Jonathan Hall and the suggestions that he made about proscription-like measures. The Government intend to implement these in due course.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, has the Minister seen the report today about the killing of 23 year-old Rubina Aminian, a young woman who was shot at close range in the back of her head? She is one of thousands of pro-democracy protesters who have lost their lives already. They join the 1,922 who were executed by the regime last year alone, as well as Mahsa Amini, the young woman who died after discarding her hijab. It is not unreasonable to ask, as the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, did, whether we will take further action on the proscription of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Additionally, what we can do to try to restore communications in Iran in any way, so that people can know what is going on? What advice are we giving to British nationals and dual citizens who are in Iran at present?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
One of the issues that we face is our current inability to get verifiable information out of Iran, because the regime has closed the internet. That makes life very difficult. However, the noble Lord is absolutely right to remind us of some of the horrors that we know about already. As more information emerges, we will want to respond. I have said what I have said about proscription and the IRGC, but we are concerned about British nationals and we have clear travel advice not to travel to Iran. There are British nationals there at the moment. Sadly, we know of some who are being wrongly held. The Foremans have even been charged with espionage, which is clearly wrong. They should be released immediately.
UK Citizens in Venezuela
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am not here to second-guess legal advice or the situation in regard to any specific incident in the Caribbean. What the US does with regard to Venezuela and its position on its activities in the Caribbean are clearly a matter for the US.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that the 51 Venezuelans who are on our sanctions list for their role in undermining democracy and human rights remain sanctioned? Will she say whether we are considering imposing sanctions on those who have been involved in the cartels in the illegal smuggling of drugs—many of them lethal—not just into the United States but into Europe and this country too?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Lord knows that I am not going to talk about sanctions or whether we are about to lift or impose them, but it is absolutely true that Europe is one of the biggest markets for narcotics coming out of Latin America and central America specifically. The demand for narcotics in this country is causing misery, despair and the death of children, among others, in that part of the world.
British Embassy in Damascus
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are, of course, and we take our counterterrorism work in Syria and elsewhere incredibly seriously. One of the best things we can do for Syria and the wider region is to do everything we can to make sure that Syria has a stable Government with inclusive politics, and that the improvements we are seeing continue. This is the best chance we have had for Syria in a very long time, and we need to work collaboratively with our partners and allies on the threats the noble Lord refers to, as he would expect. But vital to this is maintaining a secure and stable Government in Syria.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in the context of the rise of ISIS again in Somalia and jihadism throughout the region, will the noble Baroness say something about the position of minorities in Syria, who have suffered genocide in the past? Recent attacks on Alawites and Druze in particular should give cause for concern. Will she make it a priority of our diplomatic presence in Damascus that we champion the position of the minorities, guaranteeing the real long-term stability of that country?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That is a very important point. We were deeply concerned, as I know Members were across this House, about some of the events we saw last summer, particularly the targeting of the Alawite and Druze communities, as the noble Lord says. We are very clear with the Government in Syria about our commitment to freedom of religion or belief, and that we expect the new Government to be inclusive and representative and to take actions we would all expect them to take when we see breaches and when things occur that need to be responded to. The Government need to take a leading role in making sure that this sort of violence and victimisation is not allowed to persist in Syria.
Official Development Assistance
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I talked about money in my previous answers, but our commitment to be advocates and continue to push for a change in country on the rights of women and girls is often as important. Maintaining access to safe abortion and family planning advice and products is a key commitment from the Government that builds on the work of very many of my predecessors. This is absolutely vital and is one of the reasons that we have decided to prioritise health as we go forward.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, given that conflict is one of the reasons why development is always impeded, has the Minister had a chance to look at the correspondence last week between the Foreign Secretary and the Joint Committee on Human Rights, where the Foreign Secretary was asked whether these cuts will impact the work we are able to do with the United Nations Human Rights Commissioner and UNICEF? He said that peacekeeping would not be affected, but he was unable to answer that question. Given the importance of holding to account perpetrators of terrible crimes from Ukraine to the Middle East, in Sudan, the Horn of Africa, Syria and so many other places, does the Minister agree that we must do nothing that reduces our expenditure on bringing perpetrators to account and our attempts to try to mitigate the worst effects of the terrible violence?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I agree with that. We can be proud of the work that this country has done on conflict prevention, on demining and on many other areas connected to the issues he raises, not least accountability. But you only have to listen to the news coming out of Gaza this morning to be confronted with the fact that you can provide as much aid as you like—we have protected our aid to Gaza; we have aid waiting on the border—but the reason that those people are starving is because of political choice.
Syria: Druze Community
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I completely agree with my noble friend. He has been following these events and has himself been involved at various points over the years. With regard to what he said about Assad, we were all glad to see him go. We now face a situation where a nascent Government have formed a Cabinet that is pluralistic; we welcome that, but we need a Government who are properly representative of Syria. They need to be able to strengthen their provision of public services to achieve security for their population. To do that, they need their population to return, and we are helping with that as well. There is a great deal to do. My noble friend’s point about the complexity, and the long-term commitments that will be required to ensure the future for Syria that we all want, is a point very well made.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the Minister will have seen the recent reports of the murder of 25 believers who were assembled in a Greek Orthodox church in Damascus. She will know also about the shocking reports of the rape and violence perpetrated against Alawite women. Can she tell us anything further about her reference to holding to account those responsible for these depredations? How will that be done? Does she agree that the treatment of minorities and vulnerable people is a real test of whether a country can call itself both civilised and one that the rest of the world can do business with?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
It is completely wrong in any context for somebody to be harmed or persecuted purely on the basis of what they happen to believe. When the Foreign Secretary was in Damascus recently speaking to the Government of Syria and the President, he expressed our concern about the persecution of religious minorities and offered our support in any way that can be helpful in making sure that, whatever religion or background you have in Syria, you are able to be part of society and part of the leadership of the country as it goes forward.
Ukraine: UK Security Guarantee
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The noble Baroness makes an excellent point, and it is important that we remind ourselves about this. That counts for now, and it also counts after any ceasefire is achieved. We need to remember that Russia instigated this and, if we allow this to go unchecked or for there to be any kind of reward for this aggression, we cannot be confident that this would be the last time that we would see this kind of action from Russia.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in the initial reply the Minister gave to the House, she rightly referred to those children who have been abducted from Ukraine. Yesterday, the envoy for missing children pointed out that the technology that is used to track more than 30,000 of those children expires this month with the ending of funding from USAID. What are His Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that the funding does not end, and what are we doing to ensure that the special tribunal to bring to justice those responsible for the abduction of children goes ahead?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
What has happened to those children is abhorrent, and they should be returned immediately. My understanding is that the Ukrainians have now issued a list of names to the Russians, to enable them to be returned immediately. I will look into the issue of the funding for the technology—that is very important. I do not have an answer for the noble Lord now, but I will find out and write to him, and I will share that with other noble Lords, who I know have a keen interest in this—and I am pleased that they do.
London Sudan Conference
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As many in this Chamber who have followed not just the events in Sudan but conflicts throughout recent history will appreciate, it is often a good thing to start conversations on areas where we can find agreement. That is why we focused on humanitarian aid and the protection of civilians. There are 30 million people in need of aid in the region, so that was the right thing to do. On the wider issues that the right reverend Prelate raises, our position is very clear that it is not right that third parties or other countries are involving themselves in this, and we urge them not to do so.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, following the killing on 12 April of nine international relief organisation workers at Zamzam displacement camp in northern Darfur, will the Minister look into reports today that a militia from the Rapid Support Forces has arrested 40 aid workers and 50 civilians during an evacuation at Zamzam? Building on what she has just said to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds, how does she respond to Rosemary DiCarlo, the United Nations under-secretary for political and peacebuilding affairs, who said that
“if the parties have been able to sustain their confrontation, it is in no small part thanks to the material support they receive from outside the Sudan. These … flout the sanctions regime … thereby fueling the conflict. This is illegal, it is immoral and it must stop”?
What are we doing, therefore, to challenge the countries responsible for this trade in death and human misery, and to finally end it?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are clear that the conflict needs to end and that anyone with any influence over any of the warring parties should use it to bring the conflict to a peaceful conclusion. I am happy to look into the reports—which I was not aware of—that the noble Lord just raised about recent events in Zamzam, and to get back to him about that.
Myanmar Earthquake
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Yes, that is right. I commend the noble Lord’s work, particularly on sexual violence in conflict, which he has led over many years. Fortunately, the epicentre of the earthquake did not hit Rakhine province as harshly as it did other areas, but the Rohingya people are still suffering enormously. The noble Lord is right to make sure that we do not lose focus on that, and I hope that he will continue to do so.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right to say that, in addition to the humanitarian needs that now prevail inside Myanmar, the minorities referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, are suffering—I think of the Karen people, whose state I visited in the past in Burma. There has been a total of 11 reported attacks on ethnic minorities and civilian communities since the earthquake. Is this not piling tragedy upon tragedy? Although I support what the noble Baroness has said about her call for global sanctions, what about an arms embargo as well? Will we also take to the Security Council a call to ban the sale of aviation fuel to the military to prevent it being able to carry on with these appalling attacks on civilian populations?
Syria
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 4 months ago)
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Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I welcome the Government’s Statement. On justice and accountability, following what the charity Aid to the Church in Need has described as a “black and painful day” for Syria, with entire families killed in the violence, does the Minister welcome the importance of the decision by Syria to appoint an independent commission of inquiry into the horrific atrocities committed in the coastal areas against ethnic and religious communities, including Druze, Christians, Alawites and Ismailis, and welcome the arrest of some of the perpetrators? Can we give direct support to this holding to account, the collecting of evidence, reporting mechanisms, transparency and measures necessary to prevent similar incidents in the future? Might we be able to work with others to create a route through which the UK can monitor the situation of egregious human rights violations and religious freedom, making UK aid to Syria and the lifting of any sanctions conditional on introducing measurable improvements in the situation of human rights in Syria, which, as we have heard, are crucial to its future?
Can the Minister also say a word about Turkish bombing of civilian areas in northern Syria and the continuing danger posed by ISIS operatives in camps in Syria, some of whom are UK nationals and the subject of a current inquiry by the Joint Committee on Human Rights, which I hope the Minister will agree to engage with and whose proceedings I hope she will follow with care?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, on northern Syria, of course we are acutely aware of the fragility of that situation and want to make sure that we do not see a vacuum created that is filled by Daesh and others. The noble Lord is right in what he says about Aid to the Church in Need and its work, and we commend it for it. We have encouraged the Government in Syria on the commission, the investigations and the collection of evidence, for the reasons that he gave. We can, we should, and we will continue to do that.
On the conditionality of humanitarian aid, that is a difficult situation. There are around 16 million people in need of humanitarian aid in Syria, and I think it is important that we continue to play the best possible part that we can in supporting those people, but I take the point that he makes.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Confidence is a very difficult thing to measure in situations such as this, but perhaps the best thing to do is to say that we are mindful of the dangers that the noble Lord outlines. It is still right for this Government to have clarity and high ambition for the people of Syria, because they have suffered so much and desperately need a Government with the qualities that we outlined in the Statement.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, before we leave this Statement, may I pursue the Minister on the point that the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon, raised? I referred in my earlier question to the presence in Syria of the camps, which are of course held together by the Kurds, without whom the people who were responsible for genocide in northern Iraq and northern Syria would be free and on the loose all over again. What are we doing to ensure that they are brought to justice, as has happened in some cases in Germany and Holland but not in the United Kingdom?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are working with our partners and allies on this. As the noble Lord knows, decisions have been made, particularly on the citizenship of certain individuals, which I think is what he is getting at. Those decisions have been made; I do not have anything further to add today.
Belarus: Elections
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 5 months ago)
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Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, given what the Minister said about the importance of reaching out to the people of Belarus and over the heads of the dictatorship, can she tell us what broadcasts are made by the BBC World Service into Belarus and assure us that there is no limitation on the funding required to maintain them?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The World Service is a tremendous asset and I am pleased that, this year, we have been able to secure additional funding for it. We work with it incredibly closely, although it is and will always be fully independent in its decisions about how it operates and its content. It is important that we remember that. It is good to highlight just how vital the work of the World Service is in countering some of the disinformation and misinformation that we see in Belarus and in other parts of the world.
Sudan: US Determination of Genocide
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 6 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The best thing I can do is to repeat what I have already said: the most important thing is to get those parties around the negotiating table and get that humanitarian aid where it is needed. Anybody or any state, with any influence over any party, must use that influence for good and to bring this conflict to an end as soon as possible.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, there is no disagreement in the House about the importance of dealing with all atrocity crimes. In the previous Parliament, the noble Baroness’s party kindly supported amendments from the Front Bench to enable the High Court of England and Wales to determine whether a genocide is being committed. She touched on the problem of the International Criminal Court and the use of vetoes by countries such as China and Sudan never to allow these issues to get to the ICC.
Will the noble Baroness go back and look at the way that we determine genocides? Will she accept that, as long as 20 years ago, the ICC announced a genocide in Darfur? Some 2 million people were displaced and 300,000 people died; and 18 months ago, the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Sudan and South Sudan, in an inquiry that I chaired, warned that signs of genocide were emerging again. Under the 1948 convention, we have a duty to predict, prevent, protect and punish. The truth is that we are not doing any of them.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, I remember the events of 20 years ago very well. I remember Colin Powell saying that it was genocide and being astonished by the continuation of atrocities, given that declaration. It is why our focus should not be on whether we use a particular term—that will come and words are important—as that determination must be made by a competent court in possession of the relevant evidence. Quite how that is done and which courts are deemed competent is an interesting question, and one that I am happy to take away. I think that we should re-examine that.
I am very glad that this has come before the House, because one of the things that has concerned me is that the famine taking place in Sudan is causing the death of more people than in Mali, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Gaza put together, and it is receiving far too little attention from the world.
Taipei Representative Office in the United Kingdom
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, we support Taiwan’s participation in multilateral bodies, particularly when statehood is not a prerequisite, such as at the World Health Assembly, and we have supported its participation as an observer in other ways, including at the WHO.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I welcome what the Minister has just said about the World Health Organization. Is it not particularly reprehensible that China, the place of origin of Covid-19, should have blocked Taiwan from becoming a member of the World Health Organization? Given that we can do more, at the Human Rights Council, in the General Assembly and elsewhere, to influence these events, should we not be pointing out to others that those who fund the WHO feel some anger, having provided money to that wonderful organisation, that a country of 23 million people is excluded from its membership?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, we value the work of the WHO and the contribution that Taiwan has made through the World Health Assembly. We will continue to support its participation, because we believe that everyone who has something to contribute to this important organisation and its work should be supported in doing so.
COP 29: United Kingdom Delegation
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
What the noble Lord highlights is the importance to many of our global partners of action on the climate, whether that is prevention of climate change through the work that we do, not just here in the UK but internationally, on reducing carbon, or whether it is on loss and damage mitigation or resilience against extreme weather events. Many of the countries that the noble Lord refers to are very low emitters but are on the front line of this. That is why I am proud of the leadership that this country takes on this issue.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in welcoming the presence of the Prime Minister in Baku, does the Minister recall that, in 2023, 120,000 Armenians were driven out of Nagorno-Karabakh in ethnic cleansing, when Azerbaijan cut off electricity, medicine and food? During this conference, even on its margins, did the Prime Minister have the opportunity to raise with President Aliyev the continuing failure to create a peace agreement between Azerbaijan and Armenia and provide for the return of prisoners?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The UK has been consistent in seeking a peaceful resolution. We take every opportunity that we can to move that forward.
Jailing of Hong Kong Pro-democracy Activists
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord knows, we keep these things under constant review. We are deeply concerned about what has happened, not just in recent days in Hong Kong with the sentencing but about wider issues that I know he and my noble friend Lord Collins will have worked on together in the past. We have made quite strong statements at ministerial level in the last few days on these issues, and we will continue to do so as appropriate.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, 1,800 pro- democracy activists are in prison in Hong Kong, including the British national, Jimmy Lai. Even yesterday, he was interrogated in the Hong Kong courts, including being asked about a visit to your Lordships’ House. Given the situation that they find themselves in, why did the Prime Minister decline, according to a Guardian report this morning, on two occasions during the G20 summit to condemn the decision to extend the sentences on the 45?
Will the noble Baroness repudiate reports that a deal has been offered between the British Government and Xi Jinping to remove the sanctions on British parliamentarians—there are seven of us—in exchange for removing sanctions on those responsible for genocide in Xinjiang? Surely that would be morally reprehensible and something that we should never countenance.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, I will double-check, but I know of no such arrangement and I would be very surprised if that were the case. As he knows, we do not comment on sanction designations before they take place, and I would be very surprised if we would comment on something like that. I will check and get back to the noble Lord if I am wrong, but I would be very surprised if that report was in any way accurate.
Journalists Detained or Killed Overseas
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 8 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for his supplementary question, and he is absolutely right to draw attention to this issue. We recognise the criticisms about the report that he outlined. We want to know what happened. When you lose a member of your family in such circumstances, in the conduct of their work in a dangerous situation, the family is entitled to know what happened. Sadly, I am afraid that I do not have a great deal of optimism about getting another investigation that would be any more credible or shed any more light on what happened. However, I thank the noble Lord for again bringing the House’s attention to Christopher Allen’s case, and we send our deepest sympathies again to his family.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, in the second part of the noble Baroness’s very welcome reply to the Question that has been put to her, she referred to providing assistance in cases of human rights violation. I welcome the fact that it was a manifesto commitment to do that. Considering the recent meetings that the Foreign Secretary has had with his Chinese and Egyptian counterparts, can the Minister outline what concrete steps His Majesty’s Government have taken to secure consular access to Jimmy Lai, a British publisher who was unjustly jailed in Hong Kong, and Alaa Abd el-Fattah, a British blogger who has been arbitrarily imprisoned in Egypt for the past 10 years?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord knows, I believe that we have answered questions on Jimmy Lai very recently, but we continue to raise these cases at ministerial level with the relevant Governments, and we remain deeply concerned that we have been unable to gain the access that we would wish.
Ukraine: North Korean Troops
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Everything we have done has been with a view to avoiding escalation, because that is the last thing we want to see. However, the reports we have had in recent days are a significant step, and we are deeply concerned. So, our approach will be to discuss the implications of this closely with our partners, as noble Lords would expect.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
Will the Minister please reflect on two points made this week at the All-Party Parliamentary Group on North Korea, which I co-chair? The first was that the young soldier who walked across a minefield in August is representative of many North Koreans who would like to escape from that tyranny. Can we reach over the heads of their armed forces commanders and make sure that they receive messages in Korean, so they know that they are entitled to take up Korean citizenship in the Republic of Korea should they defect? The second point concerns the United Nations commission of inquiry report 10 years ago. It found crimes against humanity by the North Korean regime and called for a referral to the International Criminal Court. That has never been done. When is the United Kingdom going to raise this?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I will give consideration to the last point the noble Lord raised, which is very important. On his point about the young Korean soldier, we have known for a long time that the people of North Korea are not masters of their own destiny and do not make their choices freely and willingly. It is desperately sad that we now seem likely to see further decisions made on their behalf, but not in their interests.
Somaliland
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for reminding us just how complex this situation is. We have to keep in mind where Ethiopia, Egypt, Somalia and Eritrea are—this is somewhere where you do not take rash decisions. We are committed to making sure that the fight to combat Al-Shabaab is taken forward and we will play our role in that, as the noble Lord would expect.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, reinforcing what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, just said about the importance of keeping the battle against Al-Shabaab at the top of our priorities, and bearing in mind what has already happened in the Horn of Africa—not least in Tigray—are the Government not right to proceed with caution? Can the Minister tell us whether she is in discussion with members of the African Union to discover what their views are about this? Will she also bear in mind that independence in the case of South Sudan has hardly led to peace in that troubled part of the continent?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
We are desperately worried about what is happening in South Sudan. Minister Anneliese Dodds has visited there very recently. We will be keeping this at the front of our minds. As I said earlier in the week when these matters were discussed, my noble friend Lord Collins has been in Ethiopia in the last few days, and the noble Lord is right to urge caution and wisdom at all times in this.
Ethiopia and Somalia
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 9 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My noble friend is right to raise this and we are deeply concerned about the prospect of escalation. We support any moves to encourage dialogue and de-escalation. In August, my noble friend Lord Collins raised this with Somalia’s President, and the Foreign Secretary and Minister Dodds both discussed it with Ethiopia’s Foreign Minister. My noble friend Lord Collins is visiting Ethiopia again this week for further discussions, and Ministers recently raised our concerns with Somali and Ethiopian counterparts at the UN General Assembly.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that, in addition to tensions driven by Ethiopia’s desire for sea access via Somaliland, Egypt’s hostility to Ethiopia is now mounting because of the issue around the Blue Nile dam? Does she agree that the last thing that the Horn of Africa needs is another calamitous conflict, as the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said? How are we working with the African Union and our allies, especially those in Uganda and Kenya, to avert such a catastrophe?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord indicated, we are concerned about many aspects of the increase in tensions, including in Somalia, Eritrea and Egypt. We applaud the work of UN security forces so far; we want it to continue and will work to support it in any way that we can. The position of the Government more broadly is to support any form of dialogue that will de-escalate this, and to ease tensions through conversation.
Ukraine: Military Support
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As I said last week, the situation has not changed. The noble Lord will understand that we are having close conversations with the Ukrainians about their needs and objectives and how we might support them in achieving those. He will also note that Prime Minister Starmer is meeting President Biden on Friday, and I am sure the issues around Ukraine will be raised at that meeting.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, I welcome what the Minister has said. She will know that yesterday, the Foreign Secretary said in Kyiv that the delivery of Iranian missiles changes the terms of the debate. Pressing further on what the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, has said, can she expand on that? Also, given that North Korea has sent 16,500 containers of Soviet weapons for use in Ukraine, what are we doing about raising this issue with the Security Council, since both are in breach of the Security Council’s resolutions on arms embargoes?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am not going to say anything more about Storm Shadow today—noble Lords will understand that it would be a gift to President Putin were I to do so. However, I note what the noble Lord has said, and he is right to draw attention to the conversations in Kyiv yesterday. It is our intention to support Ukraine in achieving its objectives. We are closely engaged with Ukraine on what those objectives are and how we may be best continue to support them.
Bangladesh: Aid and Development
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 10 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am very grateful for that question, which again highlights the priority that noble Lords wish to see given to women and girls. On the issue of aid, the UK aid programme in Bangladesh is largely focused on humanitarian support to the Rohingya refugees in Cox’s Bazar. It works predominantly through the UN agencies, and we have provided £391 million since the current crisis began in 2017.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, returning the Minister to the question about Rohingya refugees asked by her noble friend, the noble Baroness, Lady Nye, will the Minister confirm that there are now more than 1 million Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh and that Cox’s Bazar is the biggest and densest refugee camp in the world, adding to the 120 million other displaced people in the world? When did her department last carry out a joint analysis of conflict and stability—a JACS report—about the plight of the Rohingya? Will she ensure that if it has not done so, it will?
International Anti-Corruption Court
Debate between Lord Alton of Liverpool and Baroness Chapman of Darlington(1 year, 11 months ago)
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to my noble friend for both his Question and his decades-long mission on this topic. He is absolutely right to want to hold our feet to the fire on this. Tackling illicit finance across the UK, its overseas territories and the Crown dependencies, as well as working with partners internationally, is a priority for the Government, and the Foreign Secretary recently stated in the other place that he intends to take up these issues “with full vigour”. The Government are certainly interested in the progress of discussions around the establishment of the court. We are mindful of the importance of the issues that the noble Lord raises and the need to work in tandem with our international partners to explore the proposals for the court and to tackle illicit financial flows more broadly.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Hain, a number of us were able to hear Judge Mark Wolf outline his proposal for an international anti-corruption court. Is the noble Baroness aware that some 145 world leaders from 45 different countries have now signed the declaration? In welcoming what she has said, I draw her attention to the op-ed written by Gordon Brown which says that this is how Putin could be brought to justice. Will she agree to a round table, perhaps with Judge Mark Wolf and Gordon Brown present, to inform the debate further?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am very grateful to the noble Lord. I was aware of the discussions in Hamburg, which are a very helpful next step. I have not read the op-ed by my friend Gordon Brown, but I commit to doing so promptly. I would be very interested and happy to join any discussions along the lines the noble Lord described.