Rail Infrastructure (Train Operating Companies)

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and that will be the case; that is one of the franchises that is coming up to be let. Big improvements are needed on that route. One of the other things that is unsatisfactory about the service for his constituents in Kettering is that in the mornings, they have to pile on to crammed inter-city trains from much further north in the east midlands. What we aim to deliver by 2020 is a better inter-city service and, for the first time, a proper dedicated commuter service to people from Corby, Kettering, Wellingborough and further south.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

From what I can gather, integration is at the heart of what the Secretary of State is endeavouring to achieve. With that in mind, now that the UK Government are devolving responsibilities for the Welsh franchise to Wales, is it not logical to devolve responsibility for the Welsh network?

[Chris Grayling]

I need to correct the hon. Gentleman on that: we are not devolving responsibility for the whole Welsh franchise as he describes; we are doing so in part. I have said to the Welsh Government that I am happy with their taking control of the Welsh valleys lines, with a view to developing the metro system that they hope to put into service, but the Welsh franchise is not purely Welsh; it runs through large parts of England as well. We cannot have a situation where we, the Government in Westminster, give up control over services in England to the Welsh Government without checks and balances. That is not going to happen.

HS2 Update

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend will be aware that work has already started on the electrification process that will, in the next stage, go as far as Corby, as well as—this tends to be seen rather as the poor relation—on track improvements and extra tracks passing up through his constituency to Corby, which will enable us to have much faster trains and much more capacity. My goal is to deliver faster journey times and extra capacity by 2020—long before the date he mentioned.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

In the statement of funding policy that accompanied the comprehensive spending review, Wales was allocated a 0% Barnett rating, whereas Scotland and Northern Ireland both got a 100% rating. This means that Wales will lose out on a full Barnett allocation from HS2. As expenditure increases during the construction phase, so will the impact on the Welsh Government’s budget compared with those of Scotland and Northern Ireland. Will the Secretary of State look at this issue once again and ensure that this injustice is rectified?

[Chris Grayling]

My view is that this is about transport improvements around the country. I, of course, regard improvements in Wales as extremely important. I met the Minister responsible for transport in Wales last week, and we will work together to deliver the improvements that Wales needs.

Airport Capacity

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 25th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The Airports Commission looked very carefully at the issue of an airport in the Thames estuary and came to the view that that was not a viable option. I too have looked at the issue and I share that view. The Government have no intention of reopening that discussion.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Transport for London has estimated that the cost of associated transport infrastructure to service a third runway at Heathrow would be about £20 billion. Can the Secretary of State give the House a cast-iron guarantee that any public money used to pay for that work would result in full Barnett consequentials? Or is he saying that the routes identified by TfL would be paid for fully by private sources?

[Chris Grayling]

It is important to look at the committed outputs. Heathrow airport has committed to an expansion without an increase in the number of motor vehicles using the airport, and to an increase in the number of people accessing the airport by public transport to a level of 55%. That is the objective it has to meet, and it has agreed that it has a financial obligation to get to that point. Some projects are already in train. Crossrail is nearly complete, and the western and southern routes already in Network Rail’s plans will also make a contribution. There is clearly an obligation on the airport to meet those objectives.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 15th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

I did say at the outset that successive Governments have taken the view that tolling is justified on major infrastructure schemes. My hon. Friend will know that those matters are, as I said earlier, also being considered in the round. No decisions have been made to the effect that he describes.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

The M4 is the main supply route into the Welsh economy and hence there is cross-party support in the National Assembly for devolving ownership of the Severn bridges once they return to public ownership. Will the right hon. Gentleman update the House on what discussions he has had with the Welsh Government on this issue?

[Mr Hayes]

I am always happy to have discussions with the Welsh Government, and I have done so in a variety of ministerial roles. My view is very clear, and I think that we have been plain about the toll on that important crossing. It is this Government who, when the current regime comes to its conclusion in 2018, will halve the toll. The hon. Gentleman must welcome that, as he knows how good it will be for his constituents, so I hope that after today’s questions he will put out a press release, congratulating the Government on their decision.

High Speed Rail (London – West Midlands) Bill

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

I rise to speak to the new clauses in my name and to put the case of my constituents in North Warwickshire, which is arguably the most blighted part of the HS2 route, outside of London.

I would like to use the short time available to make a final case to the Government to adopt vital protections for local communities such as Kingsbury, Water Orton, Coleshill, Middleton, Lea Marston and Wishaw. Those protections are set out in my three new clauses, as well as in provisions tabled by other right hon. and hon. Members, which I have co-signed.

A recurring theme my constituents have faced is the lack of engagement from HS2 Ltd during the process to date. Many of the questions that have been asked of the company remain unanswered, and its credibility locally is in tatters. Those affected by HS2 have little confidence that communication will get better during the construction stage; indeed, unsurprisingly, the fear is that, should the Bill be approved by the House, communication will get worse.

That is why I seek greater protection for North Warwickshire residents. As a result of the impact on our area, we have been given an assurance by HS2 that we are a special case. Sadly, despite numerous requests, the company has neglected to advise us what that protection actually is, what the benefits are or even what it covers. After what my constituents have had to endure over the last six years, they deserve better. They deserve some kind of certainty and an acknowledgment that HS2 and the Government are sympathetic to their case.

That is why I have introduced new clause 30, which would set up a community fund to protect local communities from the unintended consequences that could arise in the construction phase. The fund would supplement the community and environment fund, and it would address the adverse impacts of HS2’s construction on communities in terms of things such as impaired accessibility, the reduction in the availability of community amenities and the physical effects of construction.

A principal objective of the fund will be to remove the need for formal compensation claims and to provide an expedited means of claiming funding for detriment. The fund would be available only to address adverse effects on communities, not impacts on individual households, businesses or undertakings. However, among the things that may be considered as eligible for funding would be transport facilities such as shuttle services.

As I have stated, the Kingsbury area and the surrounding villages are clearly a special case in the context of the HS2 scheme, and there can be no argument about that. Engagement with our community needs to address the requirements that come with that special place, and my other new clauses address the current lack of communication, including in terms of referral, escalation and monitoring. Crucially, they seek to ensure that local people’s complaints are resolved in a timely manner.

We will hear further arguments later today in the Chamber about HS2’s environmental impact, and it is hard to imagine the change to the landscape that the railhead in Kingsbury will bring, but my constituents will be forced to live with that change.

I urge the Secretary of State to consider my proposed changes to the Bill and those of other right hon. and hon. Members, which I have supported in the interests of our constituents. Our proposals offer common-sense initiatives to support, and offer mitigation to, those people along the proposed line who need it most.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I did have a very detailed speech on this important issue for Wales, but I am afraid that time will defeat me, so I will be as quick as possible.

Ministers will know of my long-standing concerns about the Barnett classification of HS2. The Plaid Cymru position has always been that this is an England-only railway. All the destinations on the map are clearly in England. The position of the UK Government has always been that this is a UK-Government railway scheme. However, when it came to the statement of funding policy document that accompanied the comprehensive spending review, the railway is an England and Wales railway, because Scotland and Northern Ireland had a 100% Barnett rating for HS2, while Wales had 0% rating.

The impact of that, in a project that may well cost more than £80 billion over the next 20 years, will be severe for my country—in terms of not only HS2, but the precedent set for HS3, Crossrail 2 and the Sheffield-to-Manchester subterranean road. These are massive multibillion-pound projects, and Wales is losing out.

This is an issue of fairness, and unless the Minister says on Third Reading that he will address the issues I have raised in my new clause, my colleagues and I will vote against the Government on Third Reading.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I will be brief. The SNP welcomes this investment. Although, as has been said, the initial roll-out of the route is in England only, we see the benefits that this can bring to Scotland, and we welcome the aspiration for a sub-three-hour journey time to Glasgow and Edinburgh. I welcome the fact that the Minister says trains will run to Scotland on day one.

On the back of the comments by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) about Barnett, I would ask the Secretary of State to consider the wider issue of Barnett consequentials and the estimates process. There needs to be more clarity on that, but I welcome the investment in HS2.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 19 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 20

Public Sector Operators

‘(1) Section 25 of the Railways Act 1993 (c. 43) (public-sector operators not to be franchisees) does not apply in relation to the franchisee in respect of a franchise agreement—

(a) which relates wholly or mainly to the provision of one or more Phase One of High Speed 2 passenger services, or

(b) which relates wholly or mainly to the provision of one or more other services for the carriage of passengers by railway where—

(i) the services run wholly or partly on the route of Phase One of High Speed 2, and

(ii) the services are likely to be subject to substantial disruption because of the construction of Phase One of High Speed 2.

(2) The following may in particular be taken into account in determining whether, for the purposes of subsection (1)(b), services are likely to be subject to substantial disruption—

(a) the frequency with which the services are likely to be disrupted,

(b) the duration of the period in which the services are likely to be disrupted (and, in particular, its duration relative to the length of the franchise term),

(c) the severity of any likely disruption.

(3) In this section—

“franchisee”, “franchise agreement” and “franchise term” have the meanings given by section 23 of the Railways Act 1993 (designated passenger services to be provided under franchise agreements).”—(Andy McDonald.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

Great Western Railway Routes

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Monday 8th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Foster]

I agree completely. My constituency is not scheduled to benefit from the electrification project, but it is affected by flooding on the Somerset levels. It is vital that we make sure our railway is future-proofed. A few years back, I took a bus in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Exeter (Mr Bradshaw) when there was flooding on the railway line across Cowley bridge that looked like something out of the Bible. It is vital that we tackle the range of resilience issues, not just the very famous issue on the coast. I know that Network Rail is looking at the cliffs near Teignmouth. I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) will talk a bit more about that in her contribution. That aspect needs to be looked at too, not just the sea wall. Much of the signalling throughout Devon and Cornwall was installed in the 1960s. It is listed for consideration in control period 6, which is between 2019 and 2024, and it is vital that that goes ahead because we must improve journey times and ensure a modern infrastructure.

The issue of resilience has been brought into focus by the imminent publication of the final report from the Peninsula Rail Task Force, which will set out its 20-year plan for railways in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset. Resilience will be at the heart of that, and it is vital to have the funding needed to complete such a commitment. There have been encouraging noises on that issue over the past week or two, and I hope that we might hear a couple more words from the Minister when she responds to the debate. It is clear just how vital it is that we secure that line.

Electrifying the Great Western route into south Wales is probably the single biggest project on that line since the Severn tunnel, and it will electrify the line in communities along that route—I suspect that colleagues may wish to speak a little more about that. It is pleasing that in the south-west it is no longer the case that the only way to get close to a bit of electrified track is to buy a train set! As a member of the Public Accounts Committee I have sat through a discussion on progress so far—not least the estimated cost of that electrification, which has now reached £2.8 billion—and I imagine that the Minister might not be relishing the thought of committing to more such projects. However, it is right that those issues are highlighted, as investment must not just be about creating a corridor for electric trains to speed through to south Wales; it must be the starting point for an integrated network of electrification across the areas served by Great Western Railway.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. One major reason for the escalating cost is compensation payments to train operators—the so-called schedule 4 payments. Does he share my concern that the UK Government will not publish the level of schedule 4 compensation payments made, because we talking about many hundreds of millions of pounds of public money? There must be transparency about those rising costs.

[Kevin Foster]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his interesting intervention, and I am sure that the Minister will wish to respond to his detailed point. In the Public Accounts Committee discussion, one of the main issues was the signalling that was installed in the 1960s. When the piling was done, the cables were not mapped. Hopefully, as with the re-signalling in Devon and Cornwall, knowing exactly where the signalling cables are might make those lines more suitable for future electrification.

--- Later in debate ---

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

That is a very good point. I hope that what has been said today will be noted not just by the Minister, but by train operating companies and infrastructure companies. I hope that they will act on the suggestions that have been made by Members, so that their services can work better for commuters and other passengers.

Several Members on both sides of the House have drawn attention to the importance of the spine of the network to all the branches that flow from it. It is not just to do with high-speed links or electrification. I travel here from Maesteg, where I live with my family—it is north of Bridgend, up the Llynfi valley—and I am fortunate that we still have a branch line there. Thank goodness that, at the height of the Beeching cuts, there was local opposition and strong-minded leadership in the Labour authority, and people fought and said that they would be damned if that line would close. They managed to keep it open, and nowadays it is a tremendous success. That route from Maesteg down to Bridgend, and all the way up to Chepstow and beyond, is a very popular route and we need to go further. We talk about travel-to-work areas. The people in my constituency travel down from Maesteg and from all the valleys I represent to work in Swansea, Bridgend and Cardiff, and they need good reliable and affordable transport in order to do that. We are fortunate that we have that in the Llynfi valley and we need to keep it that way.

We are also fortunate that we were able to open a new station on the Great Western mainline spine. It is rare to see that happen nowadays. The station at Llanharan, between Cardiff and Swansea, was closed in the ’60s under Beeching, but after a fight lasting more than 40 years, we were able, along with local Assembly Member Janice Gregory and local councillors Geraint Hopkins, Roger Turner and Barry Stephens, to reopen it. It has had great benefits, with more than 2,000 homes being built in the area and possibly another 2,000 on the way. The station has been an economic boon to the area. People want to come and live there because it is not just a place along the Great Western spine route; it now has a station. The point has been well made that we must ensure that we do not bypass communities when we deliver the electrification and the mainline spine; we also need to connect the spine to the communities.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman seems to have neglected to mention the role played by Ieuan Wyn Jones, the Transport Minister in the Welsh Government at the time, and a member of my party.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

Ieuan Wyn Jones played a good hand in that campaign, and so did Andrew Davies, the Economic Minister at the time. His officials were telling him that the economic case for the station did not quite stack up, but he told them that it would when they saw the 2,000 new homes and the new schools that would come in as a result. My goodness, he was right. When I travel through the new station now, I see scores of people using it at every hour of the day as they commute to Cardiff for shopping or visiting relatives or to go to work. It has been a tremendous success, and we need to think more about these projects alongside the electrification.

Another critical aspect of using the spine along the Great Western railway is to ensure that it also connects to the south Wales metro. I use that name deliberately; I am not talking about the Cardiff Bay metro. This needs to be a genuine south Wales metro. In my area, linked to the Great Western line, we have the Llynfi line that was protected all those years ago, but we also have three valleys that have no connections to rail links at all. They need to be linked in to the First Great Western line when it is electrified and delivering faster services. That link might take the form of light rail, or perhaps good coaches and buses operating to the right timetable to enable them to make the connections at the right times of the day.

That kind of thinking has to happen, and representatives of Bridgend County Borough Council, under the leadership of Mel Nott, are now sitting down with the Welsh Government to work out how to join those communities that have no rail links to the Great Western spine, so that people in those communities can get to work and go to meet their friends and so that elderly people there can socialise with friends who live further away without having to get an expensive taxi.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman, but I hope that he will support my point that this project must be delivered on time as originally pledged and, hopefully, on budget as well. The hon. Member for Newton Abbot said earlier that too many people think that the south-west ends at Bristol. Well, too many people up here think that south Wales ends at Cardiff. Cardiff is a brilliant city—please go there and visit. Newport had the NATO conference and Cardiff has the greatest stadium in the land, with the only covered surface. Wales also has the best national opera company. Cardiff was third in the top 10 short break destinations in the whole of Europe recently. However, south Wales does not stop at Cardiff. Just beyond that line, there is Bridgend, and just beyond Bridgend is Swansea. Beyond that is west Wales.

So I fully agree with the hon. Member for Gower (Byron Davies), but I want to say to the Minister today, “Don’t short-change us through these delays.” We have been talking about the economic benefits and we were told that the electrification project would be delivered to Swansea—not to Bristol, not to Cardiff, not to Bridgend, but to Swansea—and we want it to go to Swansea. Let us look at the developments that are happening in Swansea at the moment. There is the SA1 project and the new university campus out at Briton Ferry. These are tremendous jewels in Swansea’s economic crown, and they need to be joined up. South Wales does not stop at Cardiff—brilliant city though that is. It goes way beyond that, and we need this project to be delivered.

I agree with the hon. Member for Gower’s primary point that we need to get the electrification completed, but I hope that he would agree with me that we need to get it done promptly and on time, without the delays that we have been talking about. We have now been told that it is to be put back into control period 6. For those who do not know what that means, control period 6 is between 2019 and 2024, which would mean that the project would not be completed at the same time as the rest, around 2018. So in effect, Christmas will come late for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and for mine. We are going to have to wait for our Christmas presents, and that is not good enough. His constituents are not second-class citizens of this nation and neither are mine. Let us have this project on time, at the same time as everybody else. I know that he agrees with me on this.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very important point. Does he agree that it would be far better if these large infrastructure development projects started in Swansea as opposed to starting in London? If they started in Swansea, you can guarantee they would arrive in London on time and in budget.

[Huw Irranca-Davies]

I would certainly be reasonably happy with that. I would probably start them from Bridgend and work outwards in both directions, but starting from Swansea would be a good second option.

I was talking about connectivity with the Great Western rail line, and the necessity of delivering the Heathrow link has been mentioned in this regard. Come what may in terms of capacity expansion at Heathrow, that link needs to be made. The journey from South Wales to Heathrow is preposterous at the moment, and that link needs to be delivered. Again, it would provide a major economic boon. It is not only business people who say this—although they do, repeatedly; it is also commuters. It is also myself. I fly from Cardiff and from Bristol, and I also fly from Heathrow. These preposterous patterns of travel need to be remedied, and that needs to be done quickly. These plans have been sat on for years and years.

The hon. Member for Gower has said that the electrification plans are good, but they must be delivered on time. The Welsh Government have made it clear, as have other parties in Wales, that we are holding this Government to their original commitment of delivering it on time and on budget. I would ask the Minister to ensure that, when this is done, full discussions are held with the communities along the routes about the related infrastructure developments that would really benefit those communities. I will give the House an infamous example, from my own constituency. The lovely town of Pencoed still has a traditional level crossing, and it is one of the busiest in the land. It is right in the centre, next to the cenotaph and the shops. When we march there on Remembrance Sunday every year, we have to time our marches to take account of what can be a 15-minute wait while the level crossing is closed. Of course, that happens every day of the week, not just on Remembrance Sunday.

If we have this major investment that will require not only electrical infrastructure but raising the height of bridges and making major structural changes in different communities, I would love to meet the Minister, with Mel Nott from the local authority and the town council, to discuss how we can all work together to get rid of the level crossing and upgrade the bridge which is only half a mile or less up the road, so that we can get two lanes of traffic over it. That would allow us to solve the problem the level crossing causes, as well as drive electrification all the way down the line. Perhaps the Minister would invite me to meet her, along with a small delegation, because we think we can bring something to the table—the town council can, as can the county borough—and we can make this work for those communities as we drive electrification through.

My final point on electrification goes back to one made by the hon. Member for Gower, who represents constituents at the end of the main spine of the line. In case Ministers are confused, I should say that it does not finish there; it goes way beyond that, up into west Wales. For the purpose of this project, however, Swansea is regarded as where the Government originally said they would deliver electrification to. We are not talking about hybrid electrification—half diesel, half electric—variations or something that is late, but about electrification on time.

Regardless of that, at the moment we have been told that because of the delay we have no clear costings—to my knowledge, they have not been done—no clear start date, and thus no certainty. My worry is that this will drift, so I want some more clarity from the Minister today. I would love her to say that this is going to start between 2019 and 2024 and to give a date for delivering the full costings, so that we have a little more certainty that even though this is drifting, it is not drifting into the back of beyond. This is a great project. I wish all south-west Members, including the hon. Member for North Devon (Peter Heaton-Jones)—we stare at each other across the Severn estuary or the Bristol channel from our glorious coastlines—well in their aspirations for their areas. But my area needs electrification on time and on budget, so that we can link up all the other things we have been talking about in a cohesive infrastructure for south Wales and on to west Wales.

High Speed 2

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Monday 30th November 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

We believe that the benefit-cost ratios for the lines that I have announced today are positive and will bring a return for the country. I say to my right hon. Friend that it is not all about BCRs. If only BCRs had been taken into account, the Jubilee line would never have been built, Canary Wharf would never have been opened, and the Limehouse link tunnel, which had a BCR of 0.4 or 0.7, would never have been built, yet they have made huge differences. Infrastructure is sometimes expensive, but we should judge the BCRs not on the next 30 years, but on the next 100 years.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

Given that, unlike Network Rail, HS2 Ltd is not devolved to any part of the United Kingdom, will the Secretary of State explain why the statement of funding policy for the devolved institutions, which was published along with last week’s comprehensive spending review, provides for a 100% Barnett consequential from HS2 to Scotland and Northern Ireland, and one of 0% to Wales?

[Mr McLoughlin]

I believe that Wales will benefit from what I have announced today, because it will be very important to the north Wales economy.

Oral Answers to Questions

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 29th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

Was that the answer, Mr Speaker? [Laughter.] I have now forgotten what the question was.

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend that it is very important to re-establish the midland main line electrification programme. He will know that I use that line regularly. Lessons do need to be learned. Of course, the electrification work had already started. What is important about the Hendy work and the Hendy plan that is currently being developed is to look at the development of the whole line, because certain things can be done on the midland main line to increase speed, which is also very important.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

One of the main reasons for escalating cost is schedule 4 compensation payments to train operators. Owing to the vast sums of public money involved, is it not in the public interest to publish the amount of schedule 4 compensation payments? That money should be spent on improving public infrastructure, not lining the pockets of shareholders.

[Mr McLoughlin]

It is very important to make the best we can of the huge investment that we are putting into the railways overall. I am very proud of the improvements that are taking place on the Great Western railway line, of which electrification is a part. The completion of Reading station and the flyover that it provides, meaning that the line is no longer held up by freight trains, has been a major improvement, which serves the hon. Gentleman’s constituents and those in the south-west incredibly well.

Severn Bridges (Tolls)

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Tuesday 21st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) on securing the debate and on her opening remarks. We in Plaid Cymru have long recognised the importance of the Severn crossings to the Welsh economy, particularly to the public and businesses in the south of our country. The crossings affect the bulk of vehicular movements into Wales, and they are located on a key trans-European route. We believe that future decisions on tolls should not be made by the UK Government, and that it is essential that the tolls be put in Welsh hands following the return of the bridges to public ownership.

As always—as we have just witnessed with the delaying of the electrification of the Great Western line all the way to Swansea—the UK Government’s transport plans for Wales are cloaked in ambiguity. Rather than being straight with the people of Wales about what happens after the end of the concessionary period in 2018, the UK Government have said that they will continue to retrieve costs for an indefinite period.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that the old Severn bridge is entirely on English soil, and that quite a lot of businesses on the English side of the border have an economic interest in the matter? To commence his speech by simply saying that control should be devolved to Cardiff is to disregard completely those who have an equally strong economic argument on the other side.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful for that intervention from my constituency neighbour, and I will deal with that subject later. It is the policy of the hon. Gentleman’s party in the National Assembly for the Welsh Government to receive ownership of the bridges after the end of the concessionary period. Indeed, his colleague, the hon. Member for Gower (Byron Davies) made that case in 2013 when he was transport spokesperson for the Conservative party in the National Assembly.

The UK Government are entitled to continue to recoup costs, as I understand it, until 2027, which means that Welsh motorists may continue to be a cash cow for the UK Treasury for nine further years after the end of the concessionary period. As has been said many times during the debate, the people of Wales deserve some straight answers for a change from the Minister about the UK Government’s intentions in relation to the bridges.

Research from the Welsh Government set out that the primary impact of the tolls is on the economy of Wales, rather than on any other part of the UK. The research, entitled, “The Impact of the Severn Tolls on the Welsh Economy”, states that the Severn tolls cost the Welsh economy more than £100 million a year. We believe, therefore, that the Government of Wales should have responsibility for future decisions on tolling. The bridges are the gateway to the Welsh economy, and just as Wales is responsible for roads and economic development, so we should be in control of the bridges when they come into public ownership in 2018. The UK Government must move on this issue and commit to devolving it.

A Plaid Cymru-led Government, post 2016, would reduce the tolls to levels that cover maintenance costs. There are other overheads to consider, such as staffing costs, traffic information provision and other externalities. The Welsh Affairs Committee estimated, based on maintenance costs, that tolls could comfortably be reduced to around £2 from 2013. That estimate included the peaks and troughs of maintenance costs, and is not simply based on a flat rate per year. The figure would have to be updated and reviewed in future, but it gives motorists and businesses a close estimate to consider for the time being. Using that estimate, figures from Arup show that a motorist paying the toll once a week could save around £218 a year. It goes without saying that online and smart payments are essential for the future. If they can be introduced for tolling in a city such as London, there is no reason why they cannot be introduced for a single route such as the M4.

The option of abolishing the toll should be kept under review. I recognise that it could help stimulate the economy and tourism. We want it to be a policy choice that can be made in Wales, depending on the financial situation. We need to look at its costs, affordability, and impact on society and the economy. We would also have to bear in mind that abolition will have a more significant effect, in increasing traffic, than reducing the tolls. There would be an effect on the M4 around Newport to deal with; Plaid Cymru has already recognised that that would cost money. There would also be an effect on the amount of haulage using the crossing instead of rail.

People travelling home to see their families, as well as tourists heading to Wales this summer, will be charged £6.50. Smaller businesses with vans will be charged over £13 and businesses with lorries just under £20 a go. The hon. Member for Newport East gave the example of the huge impact the toll has on the business of the haulage firm Owens, a firm that is well known in south Wales. The toll goes against everything the Welsh Government and the UK Government should be doing to improve the Welsh economy.

Representative bodies such as the Federation of Small Businesses are “vehemently opposed”—that is what the FSB said—to any bridge tolls being used to fund Labour’s new M4 plan. As for relieving the part of the M4 that is part of the road infrastructure served by the bridge, Plaid Cymru prefers the blue route option to the expensive black route option favoured by both the Welsh Government and the UK Government. The debacle about that earlier this month shows that the Labour Government in Cardiff may yet be forced to row back on their decision and implement Plaid Cymru’s much more viable plan, which would allow future investment throughout Wales rather than pumping all the money into one project in the south-east corner of the country. With that in mind, I make a plea for the Llandeilo and Ammanford bypass in my constituency, which has been waiting many years for funding to progress.

The hon. Member for Newport East has done the people of Wales a great service in securing this debate. However, I fear that her colleagues in Cardiff Bay have no share in her efforts. During the previous Parliament, Plaid Cymru submitted a freedom of information request to the Department for Transport. Between May 2011 and the end of 2013, the Labour Welsh Government failed to raise the issue of the Severn bridge tolls with the Westminster Government on any occasion—a dereliction of duty if ever there was one. There is precious little use in complaining about the tolls if the Labour Welsh Government are not prepared even to bother making representations.

Labour’s failure in that regard is symptomatic of the wider malaise in Cardiff Bay. The Government there are tired, sclerotic and devoid of vision and ambition when compared with a Plaid Cymru team full of dynamism, ambition and ideas to develop the economy and benefit the people of Wales.

Plaid Cymru recognises that the Severn tolls have been a burden on motorists, businesses and the public. We want to see them taken into Welsh hands and reduced, for the benefit of the economy.

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[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

I too congratulate the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) on securing the debate. As a former user of the bridge and as the Member for Loch Ness—with reference to our earlier monster turnout—I am delighted to take part.

As the Minister will know, transport and infrastructure are devolved matters in Scotland, and that fact has allowed the Scottish Government to abolish tolls. That has been vital for the local economy and has kept money in people’s pockets at a crucial time. The Scottish National party said in its 2007 election manifesto that it would abolish the tolls, and within nine months as a minority Government it achieved that. Incidentally, the Abolition of Bridge Tolls (Scotland) Act 2008 was the first primary legislation of the new Government and was passed on 20 December 2007.

Abolishing the tolls means that day-to-day running costs and the costs of long-term capital works are met by the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government also provided a one-off grant of £14.8 million to allow the Tay Road Bridge Joint Board to repay all its outstanding loans. The average commuter, working five days a week and with six weeks’ holiday a year, saves a total of £230 a year using the Forth crossing or £184 a year on the Tay crossing. That was widely welcomed by the travelling public and local businesses on grounds of fairness for all.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Will my hon. Friend explain why the Scottish Government decided to abolish tolls entirely, rather than to move to a maintenance cost level? Was it because tolls were at that level already, or were they set higher than the maintenance level?

[Drew Hendry]

The tolls were of varying costs across the piece. There were some very high ones. The Skye bridge toll, for example, was punishing—even more so than the Severn bridge tolls—but it was about £1 on the Forth bridge. The issue was fairness and the economy across Scotland, and it was about making sure that there was not inequality. That was why we decided to abolish all tolls regardless of the costs involved. There was no good reason for requiring people to pay out of their own pocket to cross over a bridge to work, or for shopping or leisure, just by virtue of where they happened to live.

The benefits have been clear. Abolishing tolls has helped the local economy and tourism, as people can access attractions, leisure activities, social events, shops and so on without being deterred by tolls. By doing that, as well as through measures such as freezing council tax, the SNP has ensured that money stays in people’s pockets. We ask not for whom the bridge tolls; the bridge tolls are free.

Because the matter is devolved, the Scottish Government were able to make the decision that most suited the local economy. The position of our sister party Plaid Cymru on the Severn bridges is to transfer them to Welsh Government ownership. Given the bridges’ position as the gateway to the south Wales economy, it makes sense for Wales to be in control of that strategic piece of infrastructure and to decide on appropriate levels of charging. It has the best understanding of the local economy and its needs. The Severn bridges have the highest bridge tolls in the country, and I believe that Plaid Cymru would like them to be cut to an estimated £1.50 to £2 per vehicle, to cover maintenance costs only. The hon. Member for Newport East has also proposed that.

Decisions about reviewing the price of tolls, what to do with the money raised from them—for instance, investing the surplus in public transport—or indeed whether to have tolls at all may best be made at local level. That has certainly proven to be the case for Scotland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Jones]

Although 2018 is not that far, it is still three years away. Work on what happens next is under way. We are looking at a potential end date for the concession of around 2018. It is a financial target, rather than a fixed date, which means that we have a requirement to plan appropriately, and I will address that next.

[Jonathan Edwards]

As I said in reply to an intervention during my contribution, the Minister’s party in Wales is campaigning for the Assembly elections, which are less than a year away, on the basis that the Welsh Government will have control of the Severn bridges and that, under his party’s control, the costs will be reduced. He has clearly not made up his mind on the ownership of the bridges following the end of the concessionary period. Is it not the case, therefore, that the pledges his party is making in Wales are not worth the paper they are written on?

[Andrew Jones]

One aspect of devolved government, which is what we have now in the UK, is that the same party will hold different views in different areas, reflecting local circumstances. That happens throughout the UK, and I think that it is a positive rather than a negative that people are arguing, lobbying and making the case for their area. It happens, and we should get used to it, because it is here to stay while we have a United Kingdom with devolved Assemblies and Parliaments.

I mentioned that we have not yet made any decisions about the arrangements after the concession finishes, but the Government have been clear that we will need to make proper provision for the repayment of debt and for future maintenance.

Network Rail

Jonathan Edwards Excerpts

Thursday 25th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr McLoughlin]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. The level of our investment in the railways is unprecedented in comparison with that of recent Governments, but it is also important for us to secure best value for our investment. That is one of the tasks with which I have charged Sir Peter Hendy, and I look forward to receiving his report later this year.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

I am glad that the Secretary of State has confirmed that the electrification of the Great Western line is a priority, but can he confirm that the pre-election promise made to the people of the west of my country that the line would be electrified as far as Swansea by 2018 will be honoured?

[Mr McLoughlin]

What I can tell the people of Swansea and the hon. Gentleman’s constituents is that they will experience the benefits of the new intercity express programme in—I think—2018. I will clarify the exact date in a letter to the hon. Gentleman. As for electrification all the way to Swansea, it is part of the programme that, as I have said, is a top priority.