Children’s Social Care

Baroness Smith of Malvern Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Government’s Statement on the reform of children’s social care. Such reform is long overdue. For far too long, children’s social care has been the Cinderella of the Cinderella that is social care, so let us hope that this bodes well for a long overdue reform of adult social care.

With almost half of children in care now living out of area, and children still being placed in unregistered accommodation—even caravans and tents sometimes, I am told—coupled with the egregious levels of profiteering by some children’s residential home providers, this clearly demonstrates a system in crisis, if not broken. I am glad the Government are taking steps to address this, particularly requiring placement providers to share their finances transparently with the Government. The whole system needs fundamental overhaul.

First, could the Minister tell me what level of profit the department will deem appropriate? If profit levels do not reduce, how quickly would the Secretary of State introduce a profit cap? For Ofsted to effectively exercise its new powers, the regulator must have the necessary capacity and expertise. Addressing profiteering and ensuring financial transparency requires a sophisticated understanding of the sometimes opaque ownership structures used by the big corporate groups behind care provision. What assurances can the Minister give me that Ofsted will have both the staff numbers, and critically, the expertise to do this work effectively?

On the sufficiency of placements, national data published last week shows that 45% of all children in care in England are now living out of area, and 22% are living far from home. What steps is the department taking to ensure accurate data about the sufficiency of places, at both a national and a local level, and what assessment has it made of the impact of its proposed measures in preventing children in care being moved out of area?

I strongly welcome the renewed focus on early intervention and family care, keeping children out of care in the first place, and I look forward to hearing more about this in the coming period.

As we have already heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, kinship carers are unsung heroes who often step up at a moment’s notice to look after family members. So, can the Minister say whether the Government will now commit to moving beyond the limited pilots that have been proposed to a universal allowance for kinship carers, on a par with those received by foster carers?

No young person should leave care having had support just stripped away when they turn 18, so I welcome the steps announced to end that care cliff edge so that young people are better supported into adulthood. The Government’s plans to legislate for Staying Close to support all care leavers up to 25 is a good first step. However, do the Government plan to extend the Staying Put scheme to the age of 25, as well as Staying Close, to provide more continuity of care for children whose final placement is in foster care?

Care-experienced children and young people have a much harder start in life and experience much worse outcomes. Liberal Democrats have called for care experience to be made a protected characteristic under the Equality Act to strengthen the rights of people who have been or are in care. Can the Minister say whether the Government are considering this proposal?

I welcome the commitment in the paper to a single unique identifier, which I have long advocated for, along with others in this Chamber. I look forward to seeing the details, and I very much hope that the NHS number will be used, as suggested in the policy paper.

Finally, it is crucial that the detail behind these reforms and the funding underpinning them backs up the ambition that has been set out. Can the Minister say when the overall package of funding will be announced, and can she clarify how the £400 million funding for local government referred to in the Statement relates to the £600 million for social care that was announced in the Budget, which was not broken down between adult and social care?

I finish with a couple of wider questions. Can the Minister say when the Government plan to publish the children’s well-being Bill? What is the overall timescale for introducing the measures that have just been announced? Given the scale of recruitment and retention problems in social care, with many jobs vacant, what will the Minister do to tackle the workforce crisis in the sector to reduce the dependency on agency staff?

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Smith of Malvern) (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank both noble Baronesses for their positive response to yesterday’s Statement and their positive response to dealing with an area that I think all those who have chosen to attend for this Statement today understand is absolutely crucial for the most vulnerable children and families in our country. I will do my very best to respond to all the questions, and where I fail, I will certainly follow that up in writing.

As the noble Baronesses recognised, this Statement sets out how to rebalance the children’s social care system to improve outcomes for children in care, care leavers and families. It is guided by four key principles: that children should remain with their families and be safely diverted from entering the care system; that where children cannot remain at home and it is in their best interests, we should support most children to live with kinship carers or in fostering families rather than in residential care; that we take action to fix the broken care market and tackle profiteering in the placement market; and that we invest in the key enablers which underpin the children’s social care system, including the workforce, better data and information sharing, and to scale and spread evidence-based and proven approaches.

I will address some of the specific points that the noble Baroness, Lady Barran, raised. On this point about keeping people as close as possible to their families, she asked about family hubs. I can say that family hubs were not specifically mentioned in the Statement because it covered the legislative proposals that the Government are bringing forward. However, we are absolutely clear that they do very good work in helping families to access vital services to improve the health, education and well-being of children, young people and their families. The 75 most deprived local authorities will in fact receive around £300 million from both the DfE and the Department of Health and Social Care up to 2025, to set up family hubs with integrated Start for Life services. Knowing that they improve families’ lives and children’s outcomes, and reduce costly crisis intervention later, we will continue to support that type of initiative. This exactly plays to the point about supporting children and their families at the earliest possible stage before those relationships break down.

On the point about payment by results for the Supporting Families funding, Supporting Families has achieved some very important results for children and their families. However, as is often the case with funding streams such as this, it has also become very bureaucratic. In keeping with the Government’s commitment to resetting its relationship with local government and working in partnership with them to deliver reform for vulnerable children and families, we will be simplifying the funding mechanisms for local authorities as much as possible, reducing the requirement for the payment by results recording and returns. That does not mean, however, that we will not be maintaining the focus on the outcomes for families, as the noble Baroness rightly said. We will continue to expect quarterly returns on the number of successful family outcomes that areas are achieving, so that we can continue to assess the overall impact of the programme. Because we have simplified the processes, we can also say that all local authorities will receive all their remaining available funding for 2024-25 as a one-off payment on 12 December, to enable them to continue making progress.

Both noble Baronesses asked about the £400 million funding. This is £400 million that will go into the overall local government grant, in keeping with the arguments that I made about reducing ring-fencing where possible. The £600 million is additional from this Budget for social care. It will be allocated, and more detail will be provided, at the time of the local government settlement for that.

On the point about agency staff, the noble Baroness is right. We do not believe that it would be possible to have a system with no agency social workers. Lots of agency social workers do very important work. However, when 17.8 % of all local authority child and family social workers are agency workers, that feels like too few permanent staff and too many agency workers. Yes, that does mean that we must work harder to train and retain our children’s social care workforce. That is why we will also be working to ensure that the workforce has the right environment to thrive in, personally and professionally. Legislative measures alone are not the answer, although we will introduce in the Bill a regulation-making power to govern the use of agency workers in local authorities’ child social care. In October, we published a set of online resources, developed by Research in Practice, to support local authorities to improve working conditions, workload, health and well-being and organisational culture. We are also working, through the national workload action group, to identify the unnecessary drivers of workload and to help to provide solutions, so that social workers can spend more time working with children and families rather than carrying out paperwork.

I am glad to hear the welcome of both noble Baronesses for the progress that we are making on kinship care. The £40 million that was announced just in advance of the Budget, and which it was part of, is to enable us to trial the use of the allowance for kinship carers in 10 areas. It would be appropriate to learn from that as quickly as possible, yes, but to learn from that trialling in order to work out how effectively to develop that and other forms of support for kinship care.

On the issue of the placement market, both noble Baronesses argued that a range of methods need to be used to increase the number of placements, in order to get away from the current situation. We do not have sufficient high-quality placements for children, particularly those with the most extreme needs, and we are seeing enormous increases in funding to pay for that. The £90 million we have announced will go alongside encouraging local authorities, charities and ethical investors to enter the market. We will work with the MHCLG on planning and ensure that Ofsted can fast-track the right sort of provision. I am sure I will get to some of the other questions the noble Baronesses asked when I respond to other noble Lords, and if I do not, I will write to them.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on this encouraging and very ambitious Statement on the development of services for families and vulnerable children. If it is implemented and put into practice, it will be good for children, good for families and good for society.

Will the Minister do all she can to rebuild the family support services that have been robbed of so much of their resources, and rebalance children’s services away from ridiculously expensive and very distant residential care, in order to ensure that there are preventive services to reduce the ever-growing number of children coming into public care? The continued increase of children coming to public care ought to alarm us. What we need is a better balance between preventive services and coming to care, so that when children do come into care, they are given the opportunity of living in a substitute family, be it kinship care or fostering care, and so that residential care is not robbing the other key services that we so much value.

I will ask the Minister one question. This is an ambitious Statement, and it has attracted widespread support. Is the Minister willing regularly to update the House on what progress has been made? Most of us see this as both a great opportunity and a great challenge, and we do not want that challenge to be lost.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord, who has done as much as anybody to improve the lives of vulnerable children, for his recognition of the principles that lie behind this Statement, which are exactly as he says: to prevent children getting into the statutory system in the first place by bringing in services and support for families much earlier on, and by ensuring that all agencies are working together to provide for that. We will of course bring forward the legislative elements of this Statement in the children and well-being Bill, which we hope to introduce when parliamentary time allows. I said to the noble Baroness the other day that we announced it in the King’s Speech and I hope and expect that it will be introduced reasonably soon.

Whether or not it is a formal update, I have no doubt, given the interest noble Lords have shown in this area of work since I have been in this House, that there will be ample opportunity for me to update the House on the progress we are making on what he rightly says is a very ambitious and wide-ranging programme of reform.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I declare a new interest. Tomorrow, I hope to be endorsed as a trustee of Foundations, which is referenced in the Government’s report as having evidence-based the value of family-led decisions when children are at risk of entering care. It has been doing work following on from what the last Labour Government did in establishing evidence-based programmes in this area.

I particularly want the Government, and ask the Minister, to think about earlier interventions, which are mainly pre-school and early school and concentrate on evidence-based parenting programmes and relationship programmes, and which then really reduce the number of children who later in life need to come into care. We know this: the evidence is there in the authorities such as Leeds, which continue to do this despite the heavy cuts. I urge the Government to recognise the importance of these programmes and of sticking with them in the long term. We have learned from the last Government that cutting these programmes ends up in government having to pay far more money and children paying a much higher price.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

First, I congratulate my noble friend on her new role, to which I know she will bring an enormous amount of experience. She is exactly right: this issue goes wider than children who come within the ambit of children’s social care; we need to ensure that we are supporting parenting, children and maternal health, and that we are intervening and providing preventive measures at the very earliest stages of children’s lives. As I suggested in my first response, that is some of the important work that family hubs are doing, but it is certainly very much part of the principles that this Government have set down. We need to continue that investment, as my noble friend says, in evidence-based practice at the very earliest stage for children and families.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, while I welcome the focus on trying to regulate private placements, that is also going to depend on the capacity within the given local authority. I was disappointed that there was not much focus on a strategy or solution, given that just under half of local authorities, when inspected by Ofsted, were rated not good; we need them all to be outstanding. I also welcome the focus across government and beyond, and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, outlined, on 18 to 25 year-olds. Is the Minister speaking to the Deputy Prime Minister about this? If you are going to build social housing, how you design those houses can help create the support networks for vulnerable young people. As someone who skirted the children’s social care system and ended up in a privately financed, self-financed placement, I know that it is just happenstance —you happen to walk past someone’s window, you happen to be seen by people, who then may take an interest in you. You cannot compel them to, but how you build properties, how architects construct them, can make that more likely. Buildings shape people and can shape the support for some of our most vulnerable children.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point about the relationship between this work and the work of MHCLG. Just a week or so ago, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Education and the MHCLG Secretary met with the Care Leavers’ Association. We are working with MHCLG on planning provision for additional children’s placements, in order to ensure that high-quality placements can be developed more quickly. I take her broader point about the way in which we literally build our communities in order to protect our children, and I am sure that good planners and good local authorities will be thinking about that.

[Lord Shipley (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my registered interests. I strongly welcome the Statement and particularly the confirmation that, wherever possible, children should remain with their families. Where it is not possible, children should live close by, not miles away. From what the Minister has said, I have not fully understood how long it might take to achieve that objective, given the Government’s plans.

I see in the Statement that the Government plan to set out funding plans on children’s social care in the upcoming local government finance settlement. I hope it will be possible to have a debate on that, because that settlement will include many things, Sometimes we have a Statement—often there is not even that—but I think that this settlement will need a debate.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I welcome the noble Lord’s welcome for this work. I agree with the point that has just been made that it is important that we work closely with partners across local government to address this. The noble Lord is right that more detail will be set out in the local government settlement, but it is not for me to decide whether there will be a debate. However, I assure the noble Lord that, if there is one and if I am called on, I will be more than happy to come and give more detail on how the spending will help to support progress on the objectives that we have set as quickly as possible, as he rightly says.

The problem of how far children live from their homes—I think over 20% of children live more than 20 miles away from their home authority—has been around for a very long time. That is not a reason not to take quick action; the noble Lord is right. This will be difficult, but we are absolutely determined to make progress.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, the Competition and Markets Authority concluded in a recent report:

“The UK has sleepwalked into a dysfunctional children’s social care market”.


That is on the Benches opposite. I raised this as a question a few weeks ago, when my noble friend the Minister agreed to have a conversation about the diversity of suppliers that are needed in this sector: social enterprises, charities and community-based businesses. I look forward to that discussion being helpful in this process.

However, it seems to me that the challenge that the Government and local authorities will face is how to transition away from companies making excess profits in a dysfunctional market to local government getting cost-effective, proper suppliers in this marketplace. One of the reasons that local authorities have been trapped in the profit gouging is their legal imperative to provide care for some of our most difficult children. How do the Government intend to bring about that transition to make sure that no children find themselves with no care at all?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend makes an important point. She is absolutely right that we are seeing profiteering in this market. The Competition and Markets Authority found profit levels of nearly 23% for the 15 largest providers of children’s homes. There is good provision in the private sector and there will still need to be private sector provision as we develop, but a 23% profit level is not appropriate competition.

The first solution, as my noble friend said, is to increase the supply of placements—this is where the £90 million is important—and we can use local authorities, the voluntary and charitable sector and ethical investors to do that. That has to be the first step. In making this Statement, my right honourable friend has also made it clear that we will not stand by if that message and action do not provide the necessary placements and we continue to see the profiteering that is breaking the banks of local authorities, when it comes to providing the care that children need. We will take action on that profiteering, if necessary, and we will have the legislative ability to do it in the children’s well-being Bill.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I declare my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. I follow on from the questions from the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Laming, and the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong. There is lots in this Statement to agree with about early intervention and tackling problems before they escalate. However, I had a meeting last week with groups supported by the Crossroads Women’s Centre, who are very concerned that parents affected by poverty, particularly single parents, are simply not getting the support they need at an early stage. They referred to Section 17 of the Children Act, which this Statement does not refer to: the general duty to safeguard and promote the welfare of children, which rests with local authorities.

Of course, local authorities are terribly cash strapped. The Statement talks about future investment in preventive services. Can the noble Baroness assure me that local authorities will get the funding they need to provide that early support, so that poverty does not put children on this path—particularly the children of disabled parents, where I heard particular concerns about a lack of support that was desperately needed?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point, taking us even further back in the process to the situations that families find themselves in that put them under the sort of pressure that sometimes—not always—brings potential harm to their children. Of course it is important that we think about child poverty in a holistic manner, which is what the task force with my right honourable friends the Secretary of State for Education and the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is working on now. It is also important that we support local government in providing some of those broader services. At the moment, we are seeing enormous increases in spending on children’s social care but relatively small increases in benefits for children. That is why we need to reform the system, alongside ensuring that the money is there.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, I first declare an interest: I grew up in a children’s home, so I have a bit of knowledge about it. The system is broken. Not by the last Government: it has gradually been broken over 50 years since we got rid of children’s departments. My one criticism of this document, which is a very good step forward, is that it mentions virtually everything except talking to the children about what they want.

Secondly, as I have said before, you cannot devolve compassion. You have to get the private sector out of this business. There is no other way forward. When we had children’s departments, we had university departments backing them up; we had a profession devoted to children, not profit. Will the Minister go back to the department to see how she can get this service back into the public, municipal care that it thrived quite well under from the Curtis report of the 1940s to the Seebohm Rowntree changes in the early 1970s, which undid it because the Treasury got greedy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I make no comment about the Treasury, but the noble Lord is right to bring us back to the most important element of these reforms: how we can ensure that we not only listen to children’s voices—he is absolutely right that they should be at the heart of our work—but do everything we can, cross-party and with local government, the voluntary and charitable sector and elements of the private sector that are providing a good service, to reform our system so that it puts children and their welfare at the heart of what is happening.

I am not quite sure what the noble Lord means by “children’s departments”. All local authorities have directors of children’s services and those who are responsible for ensuring that children get the services they need appropriately. We also have excellent social workers across the country who deserve credit, alongside those who support them, for their work in protecting and safeguarding our children and, as he rightly says, listening to them so that their voices can be at the heart of the reforms we are making.

[Lord Wood of Anfield (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a question about a category of children who are perhaps the most vulnerable within the category of extremely vulnerable children: those who are subject to deprivation of liberty order. The Children’s Commissioner recently highlighted that the number of people for whom there has been an application for deprivation of liberty has doubled in the last three years, and the conditions in which some of these children are placed are really appalling: roughly 50% are in unregulated or illegal placements. I very much applaud the idea of integration, a comprehensive approach and clamping down on profiteering, but what is the plan for taking urgent action for the most vulnerable children in these appalling circumstances while the longer-term plan is assembled?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend is absolutely right: there has been an unacceptable increase in the number of children subject to deprivation of liberty orders. That is because there is not the often very specialised and regulated provision that is appropriate for them. That is why they need the order to place them in what is essentially unregulated provision. Going back to the urgent action that we need to take to increase the number of placements, I come back to the point I made about the £90 million additional investment. Part of its work will be to find new forms of secure accommodation that can safely, and with high quality, care for the sort of children my noble friend rightly brings our attention to.