Northern Ireland Protocol

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

On mutual enforcement, we have sought to draw from ideas such as the suggestion of penalties for moving non-compliant goods to Ireland from Northern Ireland. We think that there is a reasonable evolution from where we are now that is capable of respecting everybody’s objectives and delivering better results, exactly as my right hon. Friend outlined. He is also right that it is important to be clear that we take nothing off the table. We are determined to deliver for the people in Northern Ireland as part of the United Kingdom, and the protocol itself outlines that it will respect the sovereignty of the UK internal market.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests with regards to the legal action being taken against the Government on behalf of commercial entities in Northern Ireland, and I note Mr Speaker’s mention of a wavier on commenting on such matters. Given the seriousness of what the Secretary of State has said and as a result of the Command Paper, the legal team and claimants in that case will consider staying or pausing that commercial action. That is significant and opens up an opportunity for us to get a resolution for commercial entities in Northern Ireland. I hope that the Secretary of State and Government take that in the spirit in which it is meant and understand the seriousness of that.

I must say for the record that I do not care what the Dublin Government think about this—I do not care at all. All these Pavlov dogs from academia and some political parties are salivating at supporting the EU and what it needs, but none of them has put their shoulder to the wheel to try to solve the business problems unfortunately created by the protocol. I hope they will listen carefully to people such as Archie Norman, who has called the protocol a “pettifogging enforcement” of rules that protect nobody in Northern Ireland. He has said that 40% of his business deliveries are being delayed and that a quarter of what he hopes to deliver will be frustrated. The Command Paper says at paragraph 79 that discussions will move forward “at pace”. I hope that the Secretary of State can put some meat on the bone. What does that mean in terms of the timeline? We need to know within a matter of weeks that this will be finally resolved.

[Brandon Lewis]

We are not looking to set arbitrary timelines. We want to let the EU respond and to negotiate with it, and in the weeks ahead we will all see how that negotiation works through. I note the hon. Member’s comments about the legal case. It is important that we can show people and businesses in Northern Ireland that, among the EU and the UK, diplomacy, democracy and talking can work to deliver positive outcomes. This issue affects people in commerce across Northern Ireland as well as consumers and the whole community, so it is right that we work together to find a solution.

We are clear and have always said that we do not want to see cliff edges, and we have some grace periods coming up. That is why we think it is right to have a standstill agreement so that businesses have certainty and people can see a positive way to move forward to get a result by agreement. However, as I say, we cannot take anything off the table, because we want to ensure that ultimately we get the right result for the people in Northern Ireland.

Legacy of Northern Ireland’s Past

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Wednesday 14th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend has highlighted the seriousness with which we are taking our engagement. He is quite right that, as I said in the statement, I would have liked to have brought legislation to the House before the summer recess. I committed back in January or February to update the House on where we were before the summer recess, which I am doing. I would have liked to have had a Bill’s Second Reading before the summer recess, but the reality is that the Irish Government have agreed to come into talks with us, which we agreed formally on 24 June. That is a very important and positive step. It is important that we work together on that with the parties in Northern Ireland and with wider civic society, victims’ groups and veterans’ groups as well. That we have put off taking forward legislation highlights our credentials in wanting to engage and find a way forward for people and with people in Northern Ireland.

I absolutely accept my right hon. Friend’s point about how long it is taking. He has shown dogged determination over a very long period to deliver for veterans in Northern Ireland as well as more widely. I am determined that we will end the cycle of investigations for veterans, which—he is right—has gone on for far too long. I have heard his quote about me a couple of times now, and I will have to take it on the chin until I can prove otherwise by bringing forward legislation that ensures that we can end the cycle of investigations that is treating our veterans unfairly and serving nobody. The system in Northern Ireland is not getting to the truth and not getting to information, and therefore it is not allowing that society to move forward and reconcile. All of that must come together as a package. We are determined to do that in partnership with people and to do that at speed.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) [V]]

Is it the case that vexatious complaints are only half the story and that, as of today, if trials are proposed as the outcome of inquests or the Kenova investigation, they are now redundant? Will the Secretary of State confirm whether live cases against people such as Rita O’Hare, John Downey and Owen Carron will cease to exist? Will those people get off scot-free? What is the true outcome of the proposals?

[Brandon Lewis]

The hon. Gentleman has highlighted some of the challenges in how we deal with such issues and move forward in this difficult reality. As we work through some of the details in the weeks ahead, we will talk to victims’ groups, political parties and people such as him to take things on board to ensure that, when we do legislate, we can help Northern Ireland move forward and have everything dealt with in a genuinely holistic way so that if we say we will end the unfair cycle of investigations that is serving nobody, we can do so properly.

Northern Ireland (Ministers, Elections and Petitions of Concern) Bill

Ian Paisley Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Indeed, in the interests of dialling it down, as the right hon. Member quite rightly says, does he regret that he made a commitment to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in October 2019, when he made it clear that the protocol would be “light touch”? Does he agree now that that was not the case, and that in fact the heavy-handed approach of the protocol now, in the words of the new Economy Minister, concerns him because of the “commercial discrimination” that now appears to exist in Northern Ireland?

[Julian Smith]

I strongly believe that the protocol can be light touch, but it does require significant amounts of practical working behind the scenes and not politicising every particular issue. I strongly believe that can happen, and I believe it will happen. I would urge both the EU and the UK Government to continue a positive, practical dialogue through the Joint Committee.

The Bill provides for a number of important and practical measures. It ensures more time to work through the creation of an Executive should there be Dissolution after an election. The 24 weeks for things to be worked out in a positive way is important, because we must avoid the three-year impasse that we have had before. The petition of concern provisions came from hard-fought negotiations by the Alliance, the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists, to ensure that both the major parties did not continue to abuse the veto mechanism, as had historically happened. Although provisions in the Bill do not go as far as those parties had hoped, they contain practical and positive improvements that make the petition of concern more difficult to abuse. The UK Government have also agreed in the overall agreement to review the usage of the petition of concern, and lay a report before Parliament every six months.

Finally, the Bill will ensure stricter adherence by Ministers to the Nolan principles and to higher standards in public life, following various scandals such as the renewable heat initiative scandal, and others, and address the misuse of public money and the need to maintain high standards in ministerial office.

We have heard reference to the significant tension in the politics of Northern Ireland over the past weeks and months regarding the protocol, language, leadership putsches and leadership contests. There have been burning buses, marches and demonstrations. The headlines of the past few months do not represent my experience of Northern Ireland. Whether as a result of what people have been through, its contested status, or the beauty of its land and the skills, capabilities and intelligence of its people, Northern Ireland is a unique part of the world. It is a great place to live, an exciting place to do business, and it is full of positivity and dynamism.

There has been much talk about a new Ireland, a united Ireland, and threats to the Union in recent weeks, but the high probability is that the Good Friday agreement will maintain the status quo for many years to come. Successive UK Governments have said that they will respect that agreement, and that the provisions in it, particularly those on the Executive and the Assembly that we are discussing, will have ongoing support from this House. As they have shown during this covid crisis, this Government will continue to do that for the foreseeable future.

If that is the case, the noise and headlines of the past few months risk leading many people down paths that will not come to pass, and missing the massive opportunities that the GFA hybrid situation provides, such as all-Ireland opportunities for infrastructure and climate change, east-west opportunities for work and progress on health and other issues, and huge opportunities to maximise Northern Ireland’s position coming out of the pandemic. It also risks missing the opportunities provided by the protocol, and not maximising the big opportunities of power sharing, and how that can deliver on the issues that matter most to the majority of Northern Ireland citizens, such as improving waiting lists, inward investment and jobs, education, coming out of the pandemic and enhancing incomes and life chances. There is the first Northern Ireland Youth Assembly in years, and a fantastic new head of the Northern Ireland civil service, whose obsession is innovation and how to make Northern Ireland more competitive globally, given its position on the cusp of the EU and UK, is about to take power at Stormont.

The UK Government cannot guarantee a Unionist First Minister for ever more, and they cannot change the fact that they signed an international agreement to exit the EU, which contains issues that need to be resolved. We in this House must be clear and honest about those facts. However, the Government can and will support the Assembly and Executive in supporting and developing this important and unique part of the UK, and in doing so they create the best possible protection of the Union. The Bill contains important technical amendments to the Northern Ireland Act 1998, to ensure that the best vehicle for doing that, the devolved Northern Ireland Assembly, continues to prosper. It also reconfirms today that the Good Friday agreement remains the only show in town.

Ballymurphy Inquest Findings

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Thursday 13th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As I have said a few times this morning, the Prime Minister is apologising directly to the families.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his heartfelt apology. This is a most heartbreaking affair. It cuts right to the quick of a divided city, a divided country and a divided people. As a Protestant man, as a Unionist and as a loyalist, I stretch out my hand of love, of forbearance, of common grief and of compassion to my neighbour who has suffered, and I say to them that their tears and the sting of their tears are the same as the sting of our tears. There is no difference in the colour or feeling of that grief, and we share that grief with them today in a heartfelt and compassionate way. I hope that they accept the sincerity of those remarks and those feelings, which are across our country.

This verdict does lift, Denning-like, the curtain on the appalling vista of what has happened in Northern Ireland. No doubt more and more will follow. That is not something we look forward to, but know that more will come. The Secretary of State is correct when he says that the pitch has been somewhat queered by the release of terrorists from our jails and by the on-the-runs and letters of comfort to them, because their victims will never see any justice in our country. We therefore cannot have scapegoating of our soldiers or our police officers or a perverse exhibiting and rewriting of what happened in Northern Ireland, in an “Alice in Wonderland” like way, where the peacekeepers become accused of being the peace-breakers. This is a most difficult and tragic situation, and all we can say is that we have to wish the Secretary of State well in what he does now.

[Brandon Lewis]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments, which I know will be genuine and hopefully well received across Northern Ireland in terms of the need for people to come together. It is right that this week and at this moment in time we are focused on the pain, loss and suffering that the families and the victims of Ballymurphy have experienced for far, far too long. He is right that we must also remember that more than 3,500 people were killed and tens of thousands of people were injured, with families affected across Northern Ireland and beyond, the majority of whom were innocent civilians.

By far the majority of our armed forces acted with honour and focus, and Ballymurphy just highlights what a tragic period in the history of this country the troubles were and why it is so important that we work together, recognising some of the very difficult, painful compromises that have been made over the past few decades to deliver the Good Friday agreement and the peace and prosperity that Northern Ireland has seen since. That should be treasured, and it is something we need to build on and deliver on in the future.

Northern Ireland

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, sadly and inexcusably we have seen pockets of violence across the UK over the last few months, in London, Bristol and elsewhere. None of that is acceptable, and we should see none of it. We should all be working, wherever we are in the UK, to support the local police and communities to bring an end to such things and return to calm and proper dialogue. I caution the hon. Gentleman against comparing what we saw the other week with what was seen some decades ago. Nobody should return to that, and the people of Northern Ireland deserve better. That is not what we saw last week, and it is not what anybody wants to return to in the future. We all have a job to ensure that the calmness that is there now remains, and that we work together with a proper, democratic dialogue.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) [V]]

It is a denial, Sir, not to acknowledge the consequences of decisions taken by those on both Front Benches, and imposed on Northern Ireland, which have caused seismic societal, economic and community breakdown. That is the Northern Ireland protocol, and we are witnessing that breakdown today. I condemn the violence, but all the condemnation in the world will not make the violence go away if action is not taken. The cause is not covid-19. Seriously? The cause is not Bobby Storey’s funeral, although that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The Secretary of State knows that the protocol lies at the heart of this, because the identity of Ulster is at stake as a result of the protocol. I fear a continuing downward spiral unless the Secretary of State takes action, and the key action he can take is to invoke article 16, take control of the situation, and address—[Inaudible.]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Sorry Ian, but I think we got the gist of the point you are making.

Abortion in Northern Ireland

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Thursday 25th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I recognise that Parliament stepped in at the time it did in the way it did and imposed this duty on me on human rights grounds. However, the duty to implement the CEDAW recommendations in this context, as I have said, is a matter now of domestic law, with that legal obligation. We as a Government take our responsibility and our obligations in this regard very seriously and have always engaged constructively with the UN treaty body processes. It is only right that women and girls in Northern Ireland now are able to access safe local healthcare similar to that available to women and girls living elsewhere in the United Kingdom. I fervently hope, as I have outlined already this afternoon, that this is something the Department of Health and the Executive, even in these next few weeks, will find a way to be able to take forward in the way they feel is most appropriate for Northern Ireland, and to do so in a positive way for women and girls in Northern Ireland, therefore avoiding us as a Government or as a Parliament having to take any further action.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The Secretary of State tells the House that he is under a duty to invoke a piece of law that has been overtaken by another piece of law. The actual law on standing today is the devolved settlement, which is very clear that abortion is a devolved matter and services arising from that are a devolved matter.

The Secretary of State speaks very emotively and emotionally from the Dispatch Box today saying that he speaks for women and children—“for women and girls”, I think was his phrase—and that he has a moral obligation to do that. Where is his moral obligation to stand at that Dispatch Box and defend the most vulnerable of lives—the unborn life? When is someone from the Government going to actually do that and defend that vulnerability, or is the unborn life an unfortunate commodity that can be disposed of so lightly? That is the point that is being made.

The carefully balanced New Decade, New Approach agreement, which the Secretary of State is signed up to, is being upset by the Secretary of State. Indeed, today’s report, the “Review of UK Government Union Capability”, says:

“A core principle underpinning…devolution…is…respect”.

Where is the respect for the Government of Northern Ireland, for the people of Northern Ireland and for the unborn lives in Northern Ireland?

[Brandon Lewis]

I do recognise the point the hon. Gentleman has made, and it is a point he has made to me directly on a number of occasions, about the unborn child. I have to say and I appreciate that this is an area where we do not have a similar view. There are many where we do, but not on this one. I do actually think that the situation of an unborn child is a hugely important issue, and it is something that we do need to ensure is properly respected and understood. The best way to do that is to make sure that proper, qualified, official health officials are able to give the right care, advice and support to women and girls in Northern Ireland. Part of the danger of the situation at the moment is that there are too many cases of women and girls, as was outlined by Members earlier this afternoon, who are sadly taking advice from the wrong quarters, making bad decisions and suffering badly—and, potentially, unborn children suffering badly—through bad healthcare that is not properly provided. I would argue that that is also a reason why this should be taken forward.

I do agree that I would like to see this being taken forward in the most appropriate way for Northern Ireland by the Northern Ireland Executive. They have not been able to do that over the last year, and there is still—even after the New Decade, New Approach deal, which we are all working to ensure is delivered, even in the difficult times of covid—a legal duty on me, as per the Act of Parliament in 2019, to make sure that these services are provided. I will continue to work with the Department of Health to make sure we do everything we can to make sure this is taken forward locally in Northern Ireland, but this does need to be taken forward.

Northern Ireland Protocol: Implementation Proposals

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Wednesday 18th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend is right about the huge importance of flexible and imaginative solutions to deliver on this. That is something to which the EU is committed and the UK is absolutely committed. He is right, of course, that Northern Ireland is as much a part of this United Kingdom as his constituency.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP) [V]]

Under this protocol, the European Union appears to have even more say on trade and services within the United Kingdom than when we were actually members of the EU. It is dictating that Northern Ireland cannot benefit from VAT margins, as already discussed. It is dictating higher food prices to Northern Ireland, which will increase poverty. Unfettered access will be hindered because of more red tape and the additional costs outlined today. Indeed, in the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, we heard this morning from the Justice Minister in Northern Ireland about how she is completely out of the loop when it comes to the negotiations on how we manage criminality and justice matters. Will the Minister admit that this protocol is a complete and total disaster and that it should be set aside if it damages good business between Northern Ireland and GB? The Secretary of State previously spoke on this matter. Will he match his busting at words with busting at action?

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman will know that he and I do not agree on the protocol, and I gently point out that the protocol very clearly applies to goods but not to services.

Oral Answers to Questions

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and it is an opportunity to look ahead towards a bright and prosperous future for Northern Ireland. It is a chance for people across the British Isles and abroad to celebrate the progress made while showcasing the people and places that I have so enjoyed getting to know since my appointment last year.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The Minister will be aware that I put a written proposal to the Treasury about a commemorative celebratory coin for Northern Ireland in its 100th anniversary year. Perhaps the Minister would take the opportunity to elaborate on what progress has been made on that celebratory coin for our nation, and will he elaborate on what the Treasury has told me, which is that the Government will use this opportunity to promote Northern Ireland on the world stage and celebrate its people, culture, traditions and enterprise because we have made such a vital contribution to this United Kingdom?

[Mr Walker]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and I are in firm agreement that we should mark this historical centenary in a way that facilitates national recognition and international awareness. Specifically regarding a commemorative coin, this is a matter for the Treasury. It is a proposal that I have shared with ministerial colleagues previously, and I am very happy to explore it with them further. On the international dimension, he is absolutely right. We will be working with the Department for International Trade and our colleagues at the Foreign Office to ensure that promoting Northern Ireland around the world is an opportunity that is taken during this centenary.

United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Walker]

I will make a little progress.

Clause 42 is in keeping with what the Government have constantly said, including public commitments from the Prime Minister, our manifesto commitments and commitments to the people of Northern Ireland. It is clear from the protocol that it is for the UK to implement unfettered access. Declarations of the sort that would be disapplied through this clause would be contrary to the recognition in the protocol that Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the United Kingdom.

Clauses 43 and 44 provide a similar safety net in the case of EU state aid rules that will apply in the UK by virtue of the protocol. Clause 43 gives the Secretary of State the ability to ensure there is no ambiguity in UK law about the interpretation of article 10 of the protocol, which provides that EU state aid rules will apply in respect of goods and electricity traded between Northern Ireland and the EU. A clear interpretation of how they will apply may be needed in the interests of legal certainty for both public authorities granting subsidies and companies throughout the UK receiving support. There is a risk that a maximalist interpretation of article 10 of protocol by the EU, which was never intended but is none the less a risk we must protect against, could give the European Commission extensive jurisdiction over subsidies granted in the rest of the UK, known as reach-back. All the subsidies granted to the services sector in Northern Ireland could be caught even if there is no link, or only a trivial one, to a goods provider.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

Absolute clarity and certainty is required on this state aid issue. For example, will traders in Northern Ireland be able to benefit from subsidy paid by the EU, will they be able to benefit only from subsidy paid by the UK, or will they be able to benefit from both? If it is both, that would certainly address the issue of the best of both worlds, but I think it is an absolute nonsense, because it will not be allowed to happen. Can the Minister clear up that matter immediately? Will the European Union, or our predatory neighbour to the south of Ireland, be able to stop Northern Ireland benefiting from free ports that could be given to Northern Ireland? Would they be able to block that? Clarity on those issues is absolutely essential.

[Mr Walker]

The hon. Gentleman raises some important points. It is for the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to use the powers in the Bill to take further steps in setting out the UK’s state aid policy. As the hon. Gentleman will recognise, the UK also has a policy on free ports, which we absolutely want Northern Ireland to be part of, so perhaps that is for future debates.

Let me be clear: the Government’s position is that EU state aid rules will apply in Northern Ireland as long as the protocol is in place in respect of goods and electricity, as agreed, but we have to give businesses the certainty that they will not face the destabilising prospect of the European Commission applying its state aid rules to companies in Great Britain with no link, or only a trivial link, to Northern Ireland. The power in the Bill allows the Business Secretary to make provision for how article 10 is to be interpreted for domestic purposes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

It is a privilege to follow such a thoughtful and considered speech.

I rise to speak to amendments 31 and 32, in my name and the names of my colleagues. They require that the definition of terms used in clause 45 be determined only after an impact assessment of the UK Government’s obligations under international law has been carried out. I am also happy to speak in support of the amendments tabled by my hon. Friends from the Alliance and the SDLP, and I look forward to further debate in Committee.

The SNP rejected the Bill on Second Reading because we will never support legislation that breaks international law—I am not actually sure why I have to say that. Our amendments seek to ensure that this Parliament understands the impact on its international obligations of any future decisions that it takes on the matters covered by the Bill. The UK Government have presented a Bill that not only threatens a breach of international law—a position that now seems to satisfy many Conservative Members—but was in itself a monumental act of bad faith that speaks volumes about their view of themselves and the world around them.

Last October, speaking about his withdrawal deal, the Prime Minister said:

“if we do this deal—if we pass this deal and the legislation that enables it—we can turn the page and allow this Parliament and this country to begin to heal and unite.”—[Official Report, 22 October 2019; Vol. 666, c. 826.]

The range of the amendments to this section of the Bill alone make it clear—not that we needed the clarity—that healing and unity can hardly be described as the highlights of his leadership.

In November 2019, the Prime Minister said:

“Northern Ireland has got a great deal. You keep free movement, you keep access to the single market”.

The Minister spoke about the Conservative manifesto, but it and the Conservative campaign boasted of the Prime Minister’s oven-ready deal. The Prime Minister was effusive in his support of the deal, calling it “very good”, “excellent”, “fantastic” and “wonderful”, but here we are, and he has changed his tune: far from his deal being oven-ready, it is now only fit for the cowp.

[Ian Paisley]

Is the hon. Lady telling us that she and her party believed the Prime Minister then?

[Kirsten Oswald]

I thank the hon. Member for that intervention. The short answer is no. Regrettably, I do not believe the Prime Minister, on this or other matters.

The Prime Minister said at that point:

“We have to protect the U.K. from that disaster”:

a disaster—and that is his word, not mine—that was negotiated by him and the same adviser as he has now. The Prime Minister visited Northern Ireland last month and talked of close co-operation between central and devolved Governments, but in the least surprising news of the day, certainly to viewers in Scotland, he did not engage with anyone outside Westminster in the development of his Bill. He excluded all of the devolved Administrations from the process of developing a so-called single market through the United Kingdom—plus ça change. Despite the clear relationship between this Bill and the peace process, as well as not engaging with the Northern Irish Executive, the Prime Minister failed to engage with the Irish Government. Despite the clear importance of doing so, he just breenged on regardless. We know why there was no engagement. It is because this shabby Bill—his shabby Bill—had to be put together out of sight of people that the Prime Minister could not control, people with respect for the rule of law and for accountability.

The SNP amendments would ensure that this Parliament would receive an assessment of the impact of any future action on these matters on the UK Government’s obligations under international law—a proper assessment, not the usual triumph of blustering bombast over good judgment by the Prime Minister. The people of Northern Ireland deserve better from the Conservative party, and our amendments recognise that. How can businesses and communities plan with any confidence when their future depends on the internal battles of a party that shows such scant regard for the rule of law?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Paisley]

Can my hon. Friend explain to the House whether he believes predatory actions from the Republic of Ireland could in fact prevent Northern Ireland from having a free port in his constituency, a free port operational in the constituency of Foyle or a free port operational out of Warrenpoint? Preventing those policies, which would be state aid policies, would have a detrimental impact on trade, jobs and people’s prosperity in Ulster.

[Gavin Robinson]

I am very grateful for the question, and I know that the Government would respond by saying “Look in the Bill. It is for the Secretary of State and no one else to raise issues or notify the European Union on state aid issues.” I am concerned not just about the operation of that provision, but the chilling effect that the application of state aid rules from the European Union has, when the Government consider the potential support that they could give to businesses in Northern Ireland. Again today, we hear that it applies only to goods and electricity, but I think it applies to services of those manufactured goods as well. I think there is a financial threshold of around half a million pounds, but much more clarity is required from the Government on the application of state aid rules in Northern Ireland, because all I hear is an effort to make sure that the EU does not encroach on GB affairs without any consequential understanding or recognition of—or aspiration to solve—the problems that we will face in Northern Ireland.

--- Later in debate ---

[Claire Hanna (Belfast South) (SDLP)]

I rise to commend to the Committee amendments 46 to 48, amendment 41 and new clause 7, which stand in the name of the hon. Member for North Down (Stephen Farry).

There has been so much invocation of the Good Friday agreement, in favour and against the measures in the Bill, that I think it bears repeating some of what is and is not contained and implied in that generation-defining agreement. Those who have read the agreement will know that it does not really talk all that much about borders, trade and internal markets, because, frankly, the EU had settled all those things, and in 1998 the prospect of either Government choosing to leave the security, opportunity and prosperity of the EU would have been considered insanity.

Violence was the reason for the continuing fortifications. The Good Friday agreement was the document that articulated most clearly the argument, which had been made by John Hume and others for so many years, that violence was neither needed nor justified. It took the gun out of Irish politics and ensured that the purported justification of those behind the violence was addressed. The agreement was then endorsed by the people of Ireland, north and south, in overwhelming numbers, and endorsed by both Governments, as the only way to achieve your politics. It took away the excuse and put peaceful constitutional views to the fore. It meant that Unionists, nationalists and others could have their views with dignity and that we all had a decent pass forward.

The Good Friday agreement does not say much about borders and trade, but it does say a lot about relationships, aspirations, consensus and respect, and I think that those are the values that unfortunately have been most damaged and will be most damaged by the Bill. The declaration that accompanied the agreement—

[Ian Paisley]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Claire Hanna]

Do you know what? I will give way, but only once, because for a few years your party held court here, and they were terribly damaging years for Northern Ireland, and it is time that the majority voice, which is against these proposals, was heard.

[Ian Paisley]

I am delighted that the hon. Member has given way. She casts a considerable aspersion on the Members of her party who were here for several years, but who obviously did not do as good a job in the House as she now purports to be doing, but I will leave that thought with her. Her party is in a coalition Government with my party and with Sinn Féin at the present time—obviously her words about co-operation will now ring very true indeed. Given that her party is in that coalition Government with Sinn Féin, is she actually telling the House that she believes that Sinn Féin or others are on the cusp of going back to terrorism because of what is happening here tonight?

[Claire Hanna]

No, obviously I am not. Only somebody with absolutely no understanding or who is so disingenuous would ask the question of where the violence comes from as if just a hope is a good enough reason to ride over a solemn peace treaty. Only somebody who either misunderstands or misdirects people would ask such a disingenuous question, and ask it repeatedly. We know that unfortunately there are many people of different political hues who have always sought to use violence as an excuse. That is why my party and others did the heavy lifting to ensure peace, while your party stood outside, waved placards and did everything it could to thwart the Good Friday agreement. So I will take no lectures or disingenuous questions, thank you very much.

The Good Friday agreement did talk about democratic and agreed arrangements, the democratic process and the primacy of the rule of law. It talked about close co-operation as friendly neighbours and partners in the EU. Each strand of the agreement has been damaged by the last few years, and they will be damaged further by the Bill. Strand 1, which deals with internal relationships in Northern Ireland, is damaged by injecting these binary choices and by trespassing into the devolved field. However, I will not, for reasons of time, go over the points that I and others made last Wednesday evening, about what undermining the devolved settlement might do.

Strand 2, which deals with relationships on the island of Ireland, will be utterly undermined by the creeping borderism that will follow from the Bill and the disruption of the north-south frameworks. Strand 3 deals with the east-west relationships, which clearly have been strained almost to breaking point over the past few years. It is because of the primacy of relationships that barriers to trade and aspiration offend the Good Friday agreement. Those who are seeking to say, “It isn’t written down anywhere, so there is no problem here” need to understand that.

The SDLP profoundly regrets the development of any barrier—east-west; the border in the Irish sea—for reasons of trade and economy, but also because we understand that borders have symbolic meaning to people, and we understand that this is particularly hurtful and egregious to those of a Unionist or British identity.



We have enjoyed, for the last 20 years, interdependence and free movement east, west, north and south, and it is Brexit and these decisions that are forcing the choice. It is not re-fighting the last campaign to remind people that the problem is not the protocol, it is not the EU and it is not uppity Irish nationalists, but it is this Government’s failure to choose between a higher degree of alignment with the EU, which offends the European Research Group, the ability to diverge, which will upset and offend people of a Unionist background, and the nuclear option of forcing a hard border on the island of Ireland. Quite clearly, the last two weeks have shown and give some reassurance that the UK will have no trading partners if that is the course it chooses.

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

Ian Paisley Excerpts

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As I said in my opening remarks, we are still determined to deliver on the withdrawal agreement and the protocol. We hope the negotiations come to a suitable and sensible conclusion. This is purely a set of clauses that we are putting in place so that, should that not happen, we are clear about what the position will be in January and so that there are legal structures in place to be able to deliver on those issues, including unfettered access.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

On 20 May, the Government outlined their four key principles for supporting Northern Ireland through this process. They said that we would have unfettered access for businesses across the Irish sea, that there would be no tariffs on internal UK trade, that there would be no new customs infrastructure, and that Northern Ireland would benefit equally from the trade deals that are currently under negotiation. I hope the Secretary of State will agree that any customs arrangement that affects trade, or impacts in any way on trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom in either direction, is unacceptable and must be stopped. Do this Government have the mettle, or do they have a tin foil spine when it comes to standing up to our detractors in Brussels and our debtors in the Republic of Ireland? Give the people and the businesses of Northern Ireland the certainty that they deserve and let us have certainty in those four key principles.

[Brandon Lewis]

Our determination and desire is to be able to deliver that certainty through the free trade agreement negotiations and the Joint Committee work. What we will be outlining tomorrow in the Bill is how, if that does not succeed, we will be giving that certainty to Northern Ireland businesses about what the framework and the legal structures will be from January to ensure that we do deliver on unfettered access. Let me just say that we are continuing to deliver on the protocol. With the issues around live animals, with the agrifoods work that we have done, with the EU settled status scheme and with other such issues, we are delivering on what we have agreed. We will continue to do that, and we will do so in good faith.