Business of the House

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion on the Order Paper in the name of the Leader of the House.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I think this is a debatable Motion.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I am more than happy to hear from the noble Lord in a second. Although I principally rise to move the Motion, I should like to seek the indulgence of the House on one matter before I briefly address what the Motion is for.

Your Lordships have just returned from the Coronation Recess. Many of the staff of your Lordships’ House did not enjoy the weekend off. As many of us know, they were in this building, supporting noble Lords who were attending the Coronation events. I know that our tireless doorkeepers were here from the early hours of Saturday to assist with robes, as were those providing the excellent catering and those keeping us all safe. While it is always invidious to pick out individuals, I pay especial tribute to Black Rod’s office. During the last weeks, its staff have dealt with all sorts of anxious queries with their characteristic endless patience. I am sure that all noble Lords will join me in thanking all the staff involved for their dedication.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Howe (Con)]

I turn briefly to the Motion. Tomorrow, the House will debate the Illegal Migration Bill. This is a flagship piece of legislation and 87 noble Lords have indicated their desire to speak. To allow the maximum possible time for debate, the usual channels have agreed to sit at 11 am. The House will consider the Second Reading of the Bill between 11 am and 2 pm, when we will adjourn to allow Members to attend group meetings. The House will resume at 3 pm. After Oral Questions and any Private Notice Questions, we will return to the Bill. We will break after 6 pm to consider Commons Amendments to the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill. Once this is complete, we will return to the Bill until the rise of the House. These extra hours have allowed the usual channels to agree to a six-minute advisory speaking time, which I hope will allow all sides of the House to express their positions satisfactorily on this important Bill. I beg to move.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, it always the case that when there is a difficulty for the Government, the noble Earl, Lord Howe, is put forward to deal with it, because we all love him so much. The Government think they can get away with anything when they put the noble Earl up. However, I associate myself with the remarks that he made in relation to all the staff; I am sure everyone in the House would do that. It is one of the reasons I am concerned that we are going to meet at an early hour tomorrow, with this whole helter-skelter of activity during Wednesday.

Ideally, if the Government had not got their legislative programme into a total mess—we all know it is a total mess, with Bills being brought in, taken out again and amended, so we do not know where we are—and if we were dealing with this properly, as we ought to be, the obvious thing would be to have two days for Second Reading. Many Members want to speak in the debate—87, I think the noble Earl said—but then we could deal with it properly. After all, the Illegal Migration Bill is a very important Bill. As one of my colleagues said, they are not sure whether “illegal” refers to migration or to the Bill. I think it is the Bill.

The noble Earl, Lord Howe, has been put forward. The noble Lord, Lord True, would make a good case but he is not as persuasive—not as gentle and kind—as the noble Earl. This is going to happen again and again unless we take a firm stand now. I hope we get an assurance from the noble Earl that it is not going to happen again and again, disrupting our Wednesdays, and maybe even having us meeting early on days when those of us who do not live in or near London have difficulties. I hope we will have a guarantee that we will not have this again and again. The only reason we are having is it that the Government’s legislative programme is in absolute disarray, and we should not be made to suffer for it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I want briefly to add my comments to those of the noble Earl regarding the staff on Saturday. Not only did they carry out their duties well and properly but they were friendly and courteous and took extra steps to make the whole day enjoyable. I join with the noble Earl in his remarks.

Turning to my noble friend’s contribution, unfortunately my noble friend Lord Kennedy, our Chief Whip, cannot be here, so I am the friendly face. I accept the comments of my noble friend Lord Foulkes but we have agreed on tomorrow. In terms of a precedent, I hope the noble Earl will take my noble friend’s comments on board for future occasions.

Draft Mental Health Bill Committee

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 4th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

That it is expedient that a Joint Committee of Lords and Commons be appointed to consider and report on the draft Mental Health Bill presented to both Houses on 27 June 2022 (CP 699), and that the Committee should report on the draft Bill by 16 December 2022.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I wonder if it is possible to ask a question on this. This is a good way of dealing with a Bill. Why is a similar procedure not being followed for the Bill of Rights?

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, the Bill of Rights fulfils a key manifesto commitment of the Government. We have already conducted a thorough and detailed consultation on it, which is why we think it right to introduce the Bill now and let the whole House debate it. Having said that, I am sure my right honourable friend the Deputy Prime Minister and my noble and learned friend Lord Bellamy would be pleased to engage with the noble Lord, other noble Lords and the relevant Select Committees as the Bill makes its way through Parliament.

House of Lords: Future Location

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 20th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration is being given to relocating the House of Lords out of London.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, the Conservative Party manifesto committed to looking at the role of the House of Lords and to reviewing the relationship between the Government, Parliament and the courts in a constitution, democracy and rights commission. The Government have not yet decided what will be in the scope of the commission and whether it will include the role of the House of Lords but we will make an announcement in due course.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, that does not answer the Question. Can the Minister confirm the reports that No. 10 has said that this is a serious proposal? No. 10 also says that it is one of a range of options being considered. What are the options? Will the Minister outline them? Do they include moving both Houses, which I would prefer, and how does he reconcile all this with the billions now being spent on the restoration and renewal programme of this building?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I know the noble Lord to be a powerful advocate for the idea referred to in his Question. On the one hand, it is the case that some years ago, the Joint Committee on the Palace of Westminster looked at the option of Parliament moving outside of London and decided against it, principally on grounds of cost and the absence of proximity between Parliament and government. On the other hand, there is no reason why these matters should not receive renewed scrutiny and, as I have said, the options are being looked at.

Constitution, Democracy and Rights Commission: Civil Society

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 14th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I wish that I could help the noble Lord, but it is simply too soon for me to be able to comment on that. As we heard in the debate in your Lordships’ House last Wednesday, the subject matter under the umbrella heading of the constitution is potentially very broad, so decisions are needed on exactly how broad the commission’s remit should sensibly be.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, since the remit is still unsure and has not yet been decided, will the Minister ask for the consideration of a federal constitution for the United Kingdom to be included in the remit, before we see the breakup and the removal of Scotland and Northern Ireland, which is imminent unless we have some kind of federal constitution?

[Earl Howe]

I will make sure that the noble Lord’s point is duly noted.

Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament: Special Report

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 4th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I must correct the noble Lord in several respects. The length of time for which this report has been with the Government is not at all unusual. It is one of a number of ISC reports which the Government are currently considering. In this instance, the Government are following the standard process which applies before every publication. A memorandum of understanding with the committee sets out the relationship between it and the Government. This does not include a timetable for the Government to clear such a report for publication and there is no set timeline for a response. Nor is such a deadline set in governing legislation.

Having said all that, I realise that the subject of this report is a matter of particular public interest and have no doubt that noble Lords’ comments will not be lost on those in No. 10.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that MI5, SIS and GCHQ are all willing for the report to be published?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I simply cannot comment on those matters—

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Why not?

[Earl Howe]

In due course, the Government will release the report for publication, but the processes must be gone through first.

Queen’s Speech

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 3rd September 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have announced that the next Queen’s Speech will be on 14 October.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

It was a prescient Question, was it not?

Will the noble Earl, who is known for his integrity and honesty, confirm that Parliament normally goes into recess for party conferences, so that committees can sit and Questions can be tabled, and that Prorogation is normally prior to a Queen’s Speech and usually less than a week? So a Prorogation of five weeks, with no opportunity for parliamentary scrutiny of the Executive, is both unprecedented and unconstitutional.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am a little surprised by the position taken by the noble Lord, in view of his previous call for a new Session. He was quite insistent on that point earlier in the year. However, it is impossible for me to be unaware that there are differences of view on these matters, and I have no desire to raise the temperature of the water in any way. However, the number of sitting days lost as a result of the Prorogation is only a handful. The important question surely is whether Parliament will have sufficient time after 14 October to express its view on a revised Brexit deal, if we achieve one, or on the preparations for no deal if we do not—and the Government are absolutely clear that sufficient time is available.

Royal Navy: Frigates

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Thursday 11th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I understand why the noble Lord should ask that question, but it is hypothetical. At the moment, we think we have the right assets in the right places but, as I said, we keep our deployments and our tasking under review.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, with no disrespect to my excellent, gallant and noble friend, is it not the case that we now have two admirals for every ship we have serving? Is it not about time we did some trimming of the admirals?

[Lord West of Spithead]

Noted!

Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Bill

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 8th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who contributed to this high-quality and thoughtful debate. As my noble friend the Leader remarked, the Bill has been a long time coming—too long, as I suspect we all agree. Although the Bill is with us at last, many uncertainties remain: how the restoration and renewal works will be undertaken in practice; how they will balance and reconcile the different imperatives that we all care about; and what the works will mean for Members of both Houses and the continued functioning of Parliament. These questions admit different opinions depending on your perspective. Although I will shortly respond to the issues of this kind raised by noble Lords, they are essentially debates for another day.

Meanwhile, we should be in no doubt as to the importance of what the Bill is here to do. It puts in place a governance structure to ensure that a professional programme of work can be undertaken. The urgency of this task cannot be underestimated. I respectfully but firmly disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, that this is a case of “make do and mend”. Earlier, we heard about the state of disrepair that this place now finds itself in, with falling masonry, mechanical and electrical faults, asbestos and other issues seriously affecting the day-to-day operation and safety of the building. Anyone who has toured the basement can see that we face a major restoration programme.

As has been said many times, this is a parliamentary project. The powerful contributions to the debate testify to our strong feelings on the issues before us; they certainly underscore how incredibly important it is that we get on with the job. The bottom line is that very significant work must be done to the fabric of this place. We must take the opportunity that the Bill provides to ensure that, pace the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, the Palace of Westminster can remain the seat of the United Kingdom’s Parliament for generations to come.

Let me address some specific points. First, on the amendments passed in the Commons and the others to be tabled in Committee, we heard earlier today from my noble friend the Leader about the Bill’s smooth passage in the other place as a result of the collaborative working between government and parliamentarians. The Bill reflects that, as cannot be said too often, this is a parliamentary project. The Government have listened to, and taken on board, the views and concerns of Members. That is why the amendments on the need for educational facilities, and on the transfer of external members of the shadow sponsor body to the sponsor body, were assisted and supported by the Government, and passed on Report in the Commons.

As it was the clear will of the House of the Commons, the Government also agreed at Commons Report stage to assist the tabling of two amendments in the House of Lords, one relating to heritage and the other to reporting. As a grade 1 listed building and part of a UNESCO world heritage site, the outstanding architectural heritage of the Palace would always have been a consideration for the sponsor body. We therefore did not deem a reference to heritage in the Bill necessary. However, we have heard from a number of noble Lords —notably, the noble Lord, Lord Carter, the noble Earl, Lord Devon, and my noble friends Lord Inglewood and Lord Lingfield—that the Palace’s heritage and its high-quality conservation are of central concern. As the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, rightly emphasised, parliamentarians and heritage bodies have made their views on the matter clear, and we have recognised the importance of those concerns. An amendment will therefore be tabled in Committee that I hope will command support.

The Government also agreed to assist a robust amendment on the reporting of contracts and the size and locations of the companies concerned. There is already a requirement for the sponsor body to report on the carrying out and progress of the parliamentary buildings work. However, we will also require reporting on the size and location of the companies contracted to.

Report stage in the House of Commons also resulted in a call for amendments on the corporate social responsibility of contracted companies and for the economic benefits of the works to be spread across the UK. The Government opposed these amendments, but since they were passed in the House of Commons we recognise that their spirit should be reflected in the Bill. We will therefore work with parliamentary counsel and Members to ensure the amendments are worded appropriately.

An amendment to spread the economic benefits of the works across the nations and regions of the UK was passed in the Commons, as I mentioned. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, referred to this. The Government fully support the principle that the benefits should be shared across the UK, but we identified some concerns with the wording of this amendment in relation to procurement law. We will therefore work with parliamentary counsel to ensure the amendment is appropriately worded, as we will with the amendment on corporate social responsibility. As with all the amendments I have spoken about, we will ensure that the spirit of the amendment approved by the other place is retained. The role of government is to assist Parliament in the passage of this Bill through both Houses. The project itself is for Parliament.

I turn next to specific questions asked about the provisions of the Bill. My noble friend Lady Stowell asked about responsibility for other estates projects on the Parliamentary Estate. At present, the R&R programme is responsible only for refurbishing the Palace and for the QEII Centre as a decent location for the Lords. It is expected that in due course, following designation by both House commissions, the R&R programme will also include the Northern Estate programme. Provision to allow for this is made in Clause 1 of the Bill. At the moment, no other current parliamentary estates programmes are expected to come under R&R. Again, however, Clause 1 of the Bill allows this to happen if both commissions, the sponsor body and the delivery authority agree.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, asked about the mechanisms for dispute resolution between any of the proposed bodies. It will be up to the commissions of both Houses to agree workable arrangements for the resolution of otherwise intractable disagreements. Work on this will be taken forward soon, and its importance is clear. I add only that the programme delivery agreement will cover how disputes between the sponsor body and delivery authority during the works are to be resolved.

The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, my noble friend Lady Byford, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and others emphasised the need for proper disabled access to and within the building. Clause 2(4) states:

“In exercising its functions, the Sponsor Body must have regard to … the need to ensure that … any place in which either House of Parliament is located while the Parliamentary building works are carried out, and … the Palace of Westminster (after completion of those works), are accessible to people with disabilities”.


I agree that it is important that the sponsor body and delivery authority appreciate that we expect disabled access to go beyond visitors, staff, Peers and MPs entering the Parliamentary Estate. It is worth mentioning that the sponsor body and delivery authority will need to comply with any legal obligation, such as the Equality Act 2010, when considering the provision of disabled access. I am pleased that the shadow sponsor body, to whose assiduous work I pay tribute, has specified that improving access forms part of its vision and strategic themes for the works. In fact, it has specified that the restored Palace will provide exemplary standards of access for everyone.

The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, my noble friends Lady Byford and Lord Bethell and others stressed the importance of educational outreach facilities. We all recognise the will of the other place in amending Clause 2(4)(g) in the Bill so that the provision of educational and other facilities in the Palace after completion of the works was a “need” rather than a desirability. We have the opportunity through R&R to create a legacy in educational facilities. As the noble Lord, Lord Newby, pointed out, better educational facilities will allow schoolchildren who visit the Palace to have a more interactive engagement with Parliament and democracy. This could be achieved by using the new Chamber in Richmond House as an educational facility. I was taken with the proposal made by my noble friend Lord Bethell that we should have ambitious targets for increasing the number of visitors to the Palace. Of course, it is for Parliament—not the sponsor body—to promote Parliament through outreach. Parliament has a number of initiatives in this area, including visits to schools, and there is an opportunity to think about those activities also.

This leads into the whole question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, about renewal and how we define it. I am sure we each have different views on what renewal means. That is why it is so important that parliamentarians have the opportunity to engage with R&R and the scope of the work. I completely agree with noble Lords who have argued that the programme provides a number of opportunities; for example, improvements to the Palace should enable an increase in the number of visitors and an even better experience for visitors. I am sure we also all want to see improvements to the accessibility of the Palace as part of the work. That includes not just lifts and ramps but acoustics, the increased use of technology and, as I have just mentioned, better educational facilities. I would also like to see proper consideration be given to how space is used and whether the sponsor body can come up with innovative solutions to increase the available space, without impacting on the heritage of the Palace.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, referred to the importance of fire safety. I agree that this is of paramount importance, and indeed it is one of the strongest arguments for getting on with R&R. As he will know, until the Palace is handed over to the sponsor body, the House authorities are responsible for fire safety. I am aware that the noble Lord raised his concerns in the Chamber on 25 April in the aftermath of the Notre Dame fire. At that time, the chair of the Services Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Laming, went into some detail to explain what precautions the House authorities have put in place to protect the roofs. The noble Lord will no doubt remember what the noble Lord, Lord Laming, said on that occasion.

My noble friend Lord Haselhurst advocated for better access to Westminster Hall and the Elizabeth Tower during the works. Analysis in 2017 found that any continued use of Westminster Hall or its surrounding areas by Members and/or the public would be highly disruptive and costly for no additional quantifiable benefit. The costs would be connected to maintaining a secure perimeter in close proximity to construction works and the additional cost to construction from managing a complex, partially occupied site. However, the feasibility study conducted by the R&R programme in 2017 found that the additional cost of maintaining access to the Elizabeth Tower during the R&R programme for Members’ pre-booked tour groups would be minimal, since the site boundary could be established to the south of the tower, allowing access through Portcullis House. However, that remains a matter for the sponsor body and Parliament.

The noble Lord, Lord Newby, advocated for the opportunity for SMEs to be part of the restoration and renewal works. Smaller businesses will have the opportunity to bid to be part of the works. As the noble Lord will know, that is already happening with the encaustic tile conservation project and work on the Elizabeth Tower. Again, it is ultimately a matter for the sponsor body to determine how best to engage SMEs in the forthcoming work, and we have encouraged the programme to give thought to that.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, spoke about the opportunity to promote apprenticeships, an issue also cogently argued by my noble friend Lord Lingfield. Our response to the pre-legislative Joint Committee noted that we very much encourage the sponsor body to consider how it can share the employment and apprenticeship benefits of R&R across the UK. The R&R programme has taken steps to learn from other programmes about how to plan for successful apprenticeship and skills development programmes, and the shadow sponsor body has committed for the programme to provide for the development of national construction and craft skills.

Let me turn briefly, if I may, to the decant, which I completely understand is of huge importance to many noble Lords. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked about the choice of the QEII conference centre as the location for the temporary decant of the House of Lords. The QEII Centre is the preferred location for the Lords decant, in line with the recommendation by the Joint Committee on the Palace of Westminster in 2016. That recommendation was agreed by the House of Lords Commission in September 2018, subject to further feasibility work being undertaken.

Underlying that decision was a lot of preparatory effort. The restoration and renewal programme team carried out work with the government property unit to assess the suitability of sites on the government estate. One option involved use of the courtyard of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in King Charles Street. However, it was considered to be a suboptimal solution that would require further decant accommodation to be delivered over multiple locations and had space constraints around the Chamber.

The QEII Centre has a number of advantages as a decant option for the House of Lords. It would provide the best accommodation solution because it would reduce the need for accommodation across multiple sites. It is not a listed building and can be adapted to meet security requirements. As a government-owned space, it has fewer risks when compared to a commercially owned property. Last but not least, it presents opportunities for greater accessibility than we enjoy currently.

I acknowledge that the noble Lords, Lord Adonis and Lord Foulkes, and some other noble Lords, strongly believe that Parliament should be permanently relocated from Westminster and that we should, in consequence, turn the Palace into a museum. The first thing to do is remind noble Lords that the Motion passed by this House early last year was clear that both Houses will return to their historic Chambers as soon as possible after the restoration and renewal of the Palace. In accordance with the will of both Houses, that guarantee is incorporated into the Bill. By way of background, in 2012, Parliament commissioned a pre-feasibility study into the preliminary business case for R&R. The study considered that whole question and concluded that because,

“the geographical proximity of Parliament to Government is of significance … substantial additional costs would be incurred”.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

The noble Earl has been very helpful but he moved over the issue of the decant before I was able to ask him a question. I asked earlier about the position of the Library and of car parking during those 10 years, and he has not answered either question.

[Earl Howe]

All I can say is that those issues will be considered as part of the plan. I do not have a ready-made answer for the noble Lord on either question, but I would be the first to concede that they are of importance.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

When I went to the briefing meeting, the lady in charge of the shadow sponsor body did not have an answer either, and nor did she have an answer on security. There are a lot of unanswered questions.

Perhaps the noble Earl can help me with another question about relocation elsewhere. Earlier, the Leader of the House admitted that there was no costing of that alternative. Why was there no costing, at an early stage, of what is an obvious alternative proposal?

[Earl Howe]

The matters raised by the noble Lord will be part of the outline business case, so it is impossible to be specific. However, on costing, in October 2012, the House of Commons Commission, and at that time the House Committee in the Lords, considered the pre-feasibility study and decided:

“The report is a useful first analysis of the issues. However, the Commission has ruled out the option of constructing a brand new building away from Westminster and no further analysis will be undertaken of this option”.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Why did it rule it out? I should have asked earlier. My noble friend Lady Smith chastised me earlier for being late to the issue. Why was it not considered? Why was it ruled out at such an early stage, without any costing, as the alternative?

Gulf of Oman and Strait of Hormuz: Merchant Shipping

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 18th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I should correct the noble Lord on one point. Contrary to some media reports, we have not deployed any additional forces to the region as a result of the latest attacks. I completely understand why the noble Lord asked about rules of engagement, but I hope that he does not expect me to set out what those rules are. However, I can assure him that appropriate force protection measures are in place and are subject to regular review as the situation evolves.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Can the Minister confirm that the Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, has been very helpful in this area and that we should be proud of all its work, whatever the Daily Telegraph may say about a potential Tory leadership candidate?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord will understand that I cannot comment on security matters, but I can tell him that investigations into the incident in the Strait of Hormuz are ongoing. Further information should be forthcoming in due course.

Afghan Interpreters: Security Clearance

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 17th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

Yes, I agree very firmly. The Government remain grateful to all locally employed staff who played pivotal roles in Afghanistan. Many served bravely alongside our military forces on patrol in dangerous situations and we regret deeply that some had to pay the ultimate price for freedom. We use our best endeavours to expedite these assessments as quickly as possible, but my noble friend will understand that sometimes it is important to get to the facts of the case, which does take some time.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, with respect to the Minister—whom we all respect—this has been dragging on for a very long time. Can he confirm when it was first raised?

[Earl Howe]

The issue raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, was brought to our attention only in the Times report. Of course, the wider issue of the packages available to former Afghan interpreters has been long-standing, but I believe the Ministry of Defence has a very good case to present.

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 15th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I will also speak to the other government amendments in this group.

Government Amendments 1 to 4 return to the issue of the proper scope of the new designated area offence provided for in Clause 4. I thank the Opposition for their constructive approach to this provision. It was clear from our earlier debates that there was general support for the principle of a designated area offence to help protect the public from a real terrorist threat, such as we have seen as a result of UK nationals and residents travelling to conflict zones in Syria and Iraq. The area of dispute was how we protect those who have a legitimate reason for travelling to a designated area.

On Report, the Government sought to provide greater reassurance by building on the existing reasonable excuse defence and setting out an indicative list of such excuses. However, your Lordships preferred an alternative approach, put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, which excludes from the scope of the offence travel to a designated area for one or more specified purposes. The list of such specified purposes matched the Government’s list of indicative reasonable excuses, but with a power to amend the list of specified purposes by regulations.

It is clear that, while the Opposition and the Government took different approaches to the challenge, we were ultimately striving to achieve the same result. I am pleased to say that, on reflection, the Government are content to accept the approach put forward in the Opposition’s amendment. Having consulted our operational partners, we consider that this change would not materially affect the operation of the offence. Indeed, noble Lords will recall that, on Report, I indicated that, from the perspective of an individual returning to the UK from a designated area, the two approaches would, in one sense, not look very different. Either way, the police would still need to investigate to determine whether, under one approach, an exclusion from the offence applied or, under the other, whether the subject of the investigation had a reasonable excuse.

I also reminded your Lordships that the police have made very clear that they will investigate any person returning from Syria to establish what risk they may pose to the public, given the high level of terrorist threat associated with that region. It seems reasonable to expect that this is likely to be the position in relation to any area that might be designated in the future under this power, as part of the police’s basic responsibility for protecting the public. This is aside from the question of whether a person returning from such an area may have had a legitimate reason for travelling under Clause 4. I accept, however, that an individual with a legitimate reason for travelling to a designated area would take greater comfort from knowing that they had not committed the offence in the first place than from knowing that they had a defence to the offence.

The Government must ensure that the law is as clear as it can be. These four amendments will help to achieve this. Amendment 1 is intended to make explicit in the Bill that there are exemptions from the offence—namely that an individual would not commit an offence if they leave a designated area within one month of the area being designated; that an individual enters or remains in a designated area involuntarily; or that an individual enters or remains in such an area in connection with one or more specified purposes.

Amendments 2 and 4 simply ensure that, consistent with the drafting of the Terrorism Act 2000, the parliamentary procedure for the new regulation-making power is set out in Section 123 of that Act rather than in new Section 58B. This in no way changes the operation of the regulation-making power or the parliamentary process for approving regulations made under it.

Finally, Amendment 3 provides for a definition of “terminally ill” where a person enters a designated area to visit a terminally ill relative. This point was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, on Report. This amendment will provide greater clarity for individuals who may pray in aid this reason for travelling to a designated area.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Before the Minister sits down, I want to raise a particular point about the amendment: why six months? Why was six months chosen rather than three months, a year or any other period? I wondered whether there was a clear medical or legal reason for that or whether it was just taken out of the hat. What is behind the choice of six months in particular?

RAF: Operational Conversion Unit

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 8th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, perhaps the Minister will consider reopening the base in Belize as part of the reconsideration? I declare an interest as president of the All-Party Group for Belize.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we recognise the utility of Belize as a training area, and it is indeed one of the options we are looking at.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 21st November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the Army Reserve, as it is now known, is currently 28,080 and our target is to reach 30,000 by 2020.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, on configuration, why do we have 40 admirals and all their attendant costs? Would not that money be better spent on the front line?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I would refer the noble Lord and noble Lords in general to the Written Answer I gave on that very subject the other day, which explains that the number of admirals should not be taken in the context of the Royal Navy alone but in the much wider context of our NATO commitments and other commitments around the world.

Defence Estate

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to my noble friend. In a sense, considerations for the Reserve Forces cannot be separated from those for Regular Forces because, with the whole force concept, training is now taking place with regulars and reservists side by side, which is entirely appropriate. I am aware that Bassingbourn’s future use has been the subject of a great deal of speculation, but I cannot inform my noble friend in detail about the site. Again, if I can enlighten him in writing I am happy to do so.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the welcome announcement about the development of an infantry centre in Edinburgh, the improvements at Lossiemouth, his earlier announcement on the Royal Regiment of Scotland and the announcement made last week about the frigates on the Clyde are all possible only because the people of Scotland two years ago rejected separation, and that it is part of the welcome union dividend?

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord makes a very good point, and I agree. It enables us as a department to commit to an enduring defence presence in Scotland through a number of programmes. As he is aware, we have now committed to building eight type-26 global combat ships on the Clyde. We are investing more than £500 million in the infrastructure and capability of the naval base at Clyde as it becomes the home of all Royal Navy submarines by 2020. We are investing in the expansion of RAF Lossiemouth, so that it will be home to at least one additional Typhoon squadron, as well as the maritime patrol aircraft. We are investing in concentrating some Army capabilities in Leuchars Station. That will improve access to suitable training areas. Across a whole range of projects, Scotland will benefit.

War Pensions: Uprating

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 11th January 2016 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the triple lock applies only to the basic state pension. Members of the Armed Forces will therefore benefit from the triple lock once they reach state pension age, but there are broader issues to be considered here. One is that maintaining parity with social security disability benefits is in principle the right thing to do, but secondly, there is the affordability issue. As a Government and, I believe, as a nation, we have to stick with the long-term economic plan and we have to continue to live within our means.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

Is the Minister not surprised that no Conservatives are rising to their feet to defend our servicemen? They are quite prepared to go along and lay a wreath and to go on marches, but when it comes down to it, the Minister gave it away: he said the word “affordability”. These are people for whom we must afford to uprate their disabled benefits, along with pensions; otherwise, we are really not honouring the memory of those who died for our country and served it so well.

[Earl Howe]

As I have explained, we do uprate the war pensions scheme, in line with the CPI, which is exactly the measure used by the DWP for all disability benefits, so those people are not disadvantaged.

Royal Navy

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Thursday 5th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am sure the Russians are in no doubt of the capability that the Royal Navy can demonstrate. The Royal Navy has a robust range of measures in place for detecting and shadowing non-NATO naval units which may seek to enter our territorial waters without prior authority. We continue to develop new detection capabilities to maintain the operational advantage that we need. The strategic defence and security review currently under way will allow us to assess the full spectrum of submarine detection capability, including the utility of fixed-wing maritime patrol aircraft.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend has revealed how many operational ships there are in the Royal Navy. Will the Minister tell us how many admirals there are?

[Earl Howe]

As with manning numbers on ships, the number does vary. I will write to the noble Lord.

Smoke-free (Private Vehicles) Regulations 2015

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Grand Committee

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken and I am grateful for their universal welcome for these regulations. I begin by referring to the remarks of my noble friends Lady Tyler and Lord Ribeiro and the noble Viscount, Lord Simon, all of whom reminded us why we are doing this—the noble Viscount from a very personal perspective. Three million children are exposed to second-hand smoke every year and we want to protect them. Existing smoke-free legislation is popular, as has been said, and has a very high rate of compliance. Personally, I credit the public with more willingness to follow the law and therefore protect their children from second-hand smoke, rather than thinking of elaborate ways to break the law.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about public attitudes in relation to these regulations. We know from the responses to the consultation that there is widespread support for protecting children from the harms of second-hand smoke. I do not expect people to go to great lengths to carry on smoking in cars when they know that it is an offence to do so. As has been said, legislation can be instrumental in driving behavioural and cultural change. That has certainly been true in other areas of regulation in the past. Of course, we have to inform the public in a reasonable way before these regulations come into force.

More generally, we agree that education is essential in informing people of the harms of second-hand smoke, particularly to children, and we recognise the importance of social marketing campaigns. The department and Public Health England will continue to protect children from the harms of exposure to second-hand smoke by encouraging voluntary action through social marketing. Previous campaign results illustrate that such campaigns have been effective both in changing behaviour and in driving quit attempts. Of course, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that our ambition as a nation should be to drive down the prevalence of smoking to the maximum extent that we can. We are going to monitor progress in respect of these regulations by assessing the reduction in the number of children who are exposed to second-hand smoke in cars from the current level of 26%, and it is possible to do that.

As I said, I agree with my noble friend Lord Ribeiro about the importance of building public awareness of these health harms. Once again, I pay tribute to all his efforts in this sphere of activity. I also add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for his welcome for these regulations, and I acknowledge his far-sightedness in this context, even if he felt like a voice in the wilderness for a number of years. He expressed concern about the enforcement of the regulations—in particular, in view of his perception that the police do not go to great lengths to enforce the mobile phone laws. In fact, my advice is that the police assure us that they endeavour to enforce mobile phone legislation, as they would any law. In fact, in 2012 more than 90,000 fixed penalty notices were issued for mobile phone offences. We estimate that considerably fewer fixed penalty notices will be issued for smoking in private vehicles—possibly around or slightly above 2,000 each year.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, also questioned whether the £50 figure was sufficient. The regulations were drafted following discussions with the police and others to provide for effective enforcement. As I said, the police have confirmed that they will enforce these regulations in the same way as they enforce other laws, such as those relating to seat belts and the use of mobile phones. It is for individual police forces to decide how enforcement will be carried out locally. They have advised that this can be taken forward by local police officers in conjunction with their wider functions on road safety. For example, when running an operation to check compliance with the laws on seat belts or child car seats, the police would also check for anyone smoking or discuss the offences with the driver if there was tobacco in the car. A fine of £50 is consistent with the existing smoke-free legislation, but that level of fine could certainly be subject to review when the regulations as a whole are reviewed.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Was any consideration given to putting points on licences? That would be a much greater deterrent. My understanding is that people feel very worried about having any points added to their licence because of the effect: once it tots up, they could lose their licence. I understand that this is being dealt with as a public health matter but in my view smoking while driving creates a bit of a danger, just as mobile phone use while driving does. I wondered whether that was considered as likely to be a more effective deterrent.

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[Earl Howe]

I am grateful to both noble Lords. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, on the question of points on the driving licence, this avenue was considered but rejected because it would be inconsistent with current legislation. However, I take the point about road safety. As he will be aware, if police judge that a driver is driving unsafely, they have powers to take action under different legislation.

With regard to the position in Wales, smoke-free legislation is a devolved matter, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is aware. I am advised that the Welsh Government have consulted on similar provisions, and we are working with them to co-ordinate our approach where possible.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I am sorry to come in again. Will the Minister confirm whether that is also the case in Scotland?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am aware that there is legislation before the Scottish Parliament that seems to seek to introduce similar provisions, but I am not aware of the proposed timing that the Scottish Government envisage.

I was asked about the implementation date by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. He put forward the suggestion that 1 July might have been a better date than October. We chose the common commencement date of 1 October because we judged that we would need that length of time to achieve a sufficient level of public awareness, and indeed for the police to be adequately prepared for their enforcement role.

Care and Support (Business Failure) Regulations 2014

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Grand Committee

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, if the Minister is going to correct my noble friend, could he say what the combined effect will be in percentage terms?

[Earl Howe]

I shall have to take advice before answering, but I will be happy to answer the question as soon as I receive inspiration.

Implementing the Care Act will be a challenge for local government, and takes place in the context of competing policy and financial pressures. However, we have already announced £470 million in total for the cost of the new duties in the Care Act which come into effect in April 2015. We have made substantial revisions to our impact assessment, following work with local authorities, to reflect changed assumptions on costs. This will mean acknowledging greater costs for carers in 2015-16 and beyond. We have recognised that.

In the first year, we will create a new carers grant to target this funding where it is most needed. As a result of this work, we believe that implementation of the Care Act will be affordable to local authorities in 2015-16. We will take further steps with the LGA and ADASS to agree a process for monitoring the costs in-year during 2015-16, to check on our assumptions and to provide evidence for the next spending review. Affordability is not just about the overall funding. We are also investing in a large suite of materials to help councils implement the Act effectively.

As regards the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, I am advised that the calculation that he seeks is not a simple one. I will need to write him a letter. I hope that he will allow me to do that. I shall try to be as explicit as I can in that letter.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

It is certainly not a simple calculation, and I think my noble friend was near the mark. Would the Minister send a copy of the letter to all the Members present?

[Earl Howe]

I will be very happy to do so.

The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, referred to the closure of the Independent Living Fund, and asked for the Government to provide guidance in the light of that. In response to the views of stakeholders during the consultation, we have provided guidance on how local authorities should manage the transition to social care for people previously receiving ILF funding. The guidance is included in the Care Act guidance that has now been published.

Both the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, and the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, questioned the words “significant impact on well-being”. In particular, they expressed concern that there might be a variation of interpretation of that phrase. One of the core principles of the Care Act is that the person is central to the new care and support system, and that support is built around their needs and the outcomes they want to achieve. Considering the impact on the person’s well-being in deciding on their eligibility will make the determination personal to them. This recognises that people with similar needs and inabilities to achieve certain outcomes may have different eligibility determinations because the impact on their well-being is different.

It is important that there is consistency in approach in how the eligibility criteria are used. We have commissioned Skills for Care to develop training material and the Social Care Institute for Excellence to develop practice materials to support implementation of the eligibility criteria across authorities. Professional judgment will remain key to decision-making—this should not become a tick-box approach which does not focus on the person. We have never claimed that this will remove disparity. The system is person-focused, so it is inevitable and right that individual decisions will be made.

As regards the concern of the noble Baroness about requiring people to be unable to carry out two or more outcomes, and whether that would restrict access to care, this was an issue that was raised with the consultation version of the regulations, where there was concern that it would be impossible for people with mental health problems to become eligible due to how we described the outcomes that had to be considered. We addressed this in the regulations we are discussing today by converting the two lists of outcomes which were described in the consultation version of the regulations into one list which would capture all groups. We checked this approach with our stakeholder working group, which included members from the Care and Support Alliance and ADASS. The group concluded that it could not identify any groups that would be unintentionally excluded from eligibility due to this approach.

I turn next to the issue of informing the public, so that they have a clear understanding of their rights and the system overall. The noble Baroness will remember that we discussed this extensively during the passage of what is now the Care Act. We are putting in place a full communications campaign to ensure that people receiving services, their carers and families—and the broader population—understand the impact of the Care Act and what it means for them. The campaign will feature a partnership between the local and the national, building on the successful approaches pioneered by previous campaigns such as Change4Life. Local authorities, working with other local partners including the NHS and the voluntary sector, will get messages out directly to their own populations. We have developed a range of campaign materials and guidance to help councils communicate the changes in their local area. That will be supported by wider-reaching national activity—

Meals on Wheels

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 19th January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend makes an important point—that it is not only the value of the meal that is important to elderly people; it is the relief from isolation and loneliness. Many of the solutions to that lie with local authorities. However, what the Government centrally have been able to do is to raise awareness of the impact of isolation and loneliness and encourage local commissioners to tackle that. To that end we have funded a digital toolkit for local commissioners, which has been supporting them in understanding and mapping commissioning for loneliness and social isolation in their communities.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of Age Scotland. May I try to answer my noble friend’s question for the Minister? The reason why there has been such a dramatic reduction in the number of meals on wheels is the swingeing cuts imposed by the coalition Government—and, indeed, the Government of Scotland—on local authorities and voluntary organisations, and it is about time they were reversed.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, local authorities’ funding through central revenue support has indeed reduced, but spending on adult social care has been relatively protected compared with nearly all other local authority services. In cash terms, councils have reported only a small reduction in money spent on adult social care since 2010, despite the tough public funding climate. It is up to the party opposite to explain where the money would come from—if it will increase local authority spending—given that the shadow Chancellor has ruled out increasing local government spending if Labour is elected at the general election.

Public Health Responsibility Deal

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 14th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, we are talking to the supermarket chains about those very matters, and I welcome the action that has been taken. The noble Lord may like to know that, as part of the responsibility deal calorie reduction pledge, Coca-Cola has reduced calories in some of its soft-drink brands by at least 30%, Mars has reduced its single chocolate portions to no more than 250 calories and Tesco has reduced by more than 1 billion the number of calories sold in its own-brand soft drinks.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister help the House by publishing a list of meetings which Ministers, special advisers and senior civil servants have had with fast food companies in the past year?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I shall take that request away and write to the noble Lord.

G8 Summit on Dementia

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 17th December 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, it is perhaps too soon to expect concrete proposals from other G8 countries, but I can tell the noble Baroness that the summit was not the end of the story. The G8 countries will be meeting throughout 2014 to build on and develop further agreements. We have agreed to host the first legacy event on social-impact investment in March next year. That will be followed by an event in Japan on what new care and prevention models could look like, and by an event hosted by Canada and France on how industry can harness academic research. There will then be a meeting in the United States in February 2015. We hope that the momentum generated by the summit will elicit the kind of commitments that the noble Baroness rightly seeks.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)]

Is the Minister aware that after the very brief exchange about dementia yesterday, I heard it suggested that dementia should not be grouped in any way with mental illness because of the stigma involved? Surely the solution to that is that we must all work to remove any stigma from all kinds of mental illness.

[Earl Howe]

The noble Lord is absolutely right, but he will recall that the question yesterday dealt with the WISH summit, which was focused specifically on mental health and not on dementia. I did not mean to imply that there should be any less emphasis on tackling stigma in both areas.

Cigarette Packaging

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Thursday 25th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I can give the noble Baroness that assurance. She will know from her time in government how seriously the Department of Health takes its obligations in this area, not least around transparency but also minimising the extent to which officials meet representatives of the tobacco industry. I am sure that my colleagues in other departments need no reminding of their obligations as well. We do of course interact with the tobacco industry, as the framework agreement allows, but we encourage those representations to be in writing and minimise face-to-face contact.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, has the Minister seen reports that Downing Street said yesterday that Lynton Crosby advises on strategy, not on policy. What is the difference in relation to tobacco legislation?

[Earl Howe]

I am sure that we could get into an interesting conceptual discussion about the difference between strategy and policy. The key point is that Mr Crosby has been very clear in his public statement. He has said:

“At no time have I had any conversation or discussion with or lobbied the prime minister, or indeed the health secretary or the health minister, on plain packaging or tobacco issues”.

That is very clear.

Smoking: Cigarette Packaging

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, smoking rates in the UK are lower than those in many comparable western societies, but our reductions in prevalence still lag behind those in countries such as Canada and the United States, and in some Australian states. Overall prevalence is gradually coming down, but we still need to worry about smoking take-up by the young. There is no doubt that smoking is a significant cause of health inequalities in the UK.

On illicit trade, the story is quite positive. In 2000 around 21% of the UK’s cigarette market was illicit, whereas the latest estimate from HMRC for 2010-11 is that around 9% of the cigarette market is illicit. That is too much; nevertheless, we are heading in the right direction.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Does the Minister recall that when he was a shadow Minister opposing our legislation, he regularly met Gardant Communications on behalf of Philip Morris International? May I ask him very gently: who does he think had the greatest influence on this U-turn—his friends at Gardant or Lynton Crosby?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I have never adopted a personal position on plain packaging; the noble Lord is wrong about that. As an opposition spokesman, yes, I did make it my business to talk to all sectors—to the tobacco companies, to ASH and to other lobby groups—to make sure that the picture I presented from the Benches on which he now sits was a balanced one. I took no personal position, nor, indeed, a position on behalf of the Conservative Party; I need to make that very clear. The decision that the Government have taken has been in no way influenced by Mr Crosby.

Health: Midwives

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 10th June 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as my noble friend knows, work has been going on for a number of years, including going back to the previous Government, to see whether there are viable ways of ensuring that this small group of independent midwives can obtain suitable indemnity or insurance cover. One of the difficulties we have had is the absence of information on the potential barriers to independent midwives moving to alternative governance and delivery practices in order to obtain that cover—hence the consultation I have spoken about. As I said, we are now analysing the responses. However, I do not agree that there is no way through. We know that some independent practitioners have opted for a corporate or social enterprise model as a way of gaining insurance cover. We are trying to understand what the barriers are to that among those who are resisting the idea.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, why cannot these people just get employment as midwives within the NHS?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, some of them already do. As I understand it, we are talking about 154 individuals as compared with 41,000 midwives on the register. If they work for the NHS, there is generally no issue; they will be covered by NHS indemnity in one way or another. The issue is if they wish to practise privately as individuals. That is the point of my noble friend’s Question.

NHS: Private Companies

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My noble friend is absolutely right. Various contracts have been criticised for being too long: PFI is perhaps a good example. Other types of contract have been criticised for being too short because they do not enable providers to invest on a sufficient timescale in order to be able confidently to bid for work. I have little doubt, once again, that this is an area that Monitor will look at and make recommendations upon.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, will the Government consider requiring companies providing services in the NHS to pay their employees at the very least the national minimum wage and preferably a living wage?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the national minimum wage applies across all sectors and therefore all employers need to pay heed to that, including those in the healthcare sector.

Health: Obesity

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 12th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

I congratulate my noble friend, as ever, on his powerful advocacy in this area. He is absolutely right that NICE recognises in its guideline that dietary management, including calorie intake, is of predominant importance in battling obesity. It does, however, recognise that exercise is important. It emphasises that although an individual’s ability to be physically active may be hampered by their level of fitness, recommendations can be built up gradually. It is a balance. NICE will continue to act as a source of advice for the medical profession. It is an independent organisation, as my noble friend understands, and Ministers consciously do not interfere with its operational integrity or independence. However, we expect it to take advice and evidence from a range of clinical sources.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords—

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[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I, too, have an interest to declare; I think it is fairly obvious if you look at me. That is why I want to ask a serious question of the Minister. Will he say to medical practitioners and others that it does not help to be critical and condemnatory of those of us who are obese? It is important to give information and encouragement. Otherwise, there can be complications and people can end up with depression and other illnesses, so it is very important to give encouragement. I am glad to say that that is why I have been able to lose more than a stone in the past month.

[Earl Howe]

Not for the first time, the noble Lord is an example to us all. I agree with the point he makes about the way in which doctors engage with their patients on this often sensitive subject. That is why the previous Government very commendably put in place a suite of resources to guide GPs in this area. Those have since been supplemented by electronic training modules on the identification and management of obesity and supporting behaviour change in patients. NICE has produced a clinical guideline to supplement its advice on obesity and exercise to guide clinicians on exactly how they approach this topic.

NHS: Health Tourism

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 28th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The rules are complex, depending on whether the person is from the European Union, where certain rules apply, or from other parts of the world. There is no mandatory requirement for people to carry health insurance unless there is a transparent medical need when they enter the country. For example, a heavily pregnant woman might be asked to produce proof that she could pay for treatment if giving birth was likely. There are clear rules for NHS trusts where a patient who is chargeable presents. The trust must seek either to secure payment before treatment or to bill the person immediately afterwards.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, in answer to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Roberts of Llandudno, the Minister rightly described the situation as it currently is. Is the Department of Health doing any study into the disaster that would happen in terms of healthcare between Scotland and England if Scotland were to separate from the rest of the United Kingdom? If it is not doing a study, why not?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, were that situation to occur, the issues arising from it would be little different from the issues today in that health is already devolved. However, I cannot speculate on whether there would be a different policy on immigration in Scotland compared to south of the border as we are really not in that territory yet.

Health: Clinical Commissioning Groups

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Thursday 26th April 2012 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

The noble Baroness makes an extremely important point, which is why we have laid great stress on training and ensuring that the NHS Commissioning Board will develop appropriate guidance on procurement, avoiding conflicts of interests and avoiding unfair competition entering the arena.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, what is the estimated extra cost of all this extra bureaucracy?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I do not accept that it is extra bureaucracy. Conflicts of interest arise in all walks of life and have to be managed. I do not think that issuing guidance represents extra bureaucracy.

National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, part of the objective of the growth strategy is to break down some of the barriers that undoubtedly exist to pharmaceutical companies conducting clinical trials in this country. There have been unwelcome delays in the system and we are putting in place several measures to get rid of them, which in turn should encourage pharmaceutical companies to view the UK as the platform of choice for clinical research.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, has the Minister thought—

Health: Funding

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Did I catch the Minister’s first answer right—did he say that it would be the new head of commissioning who would have this responsibility? Am I right in saying that this is the professor who was described by MPs as not having the experience necessary and not understanding the job of head of commissioning, and who was only approved by the committee in the House of Commons on the casting vote of the chairman? Is this the guy who is going to be responsible?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the chief executive-designate of the NHS Commissioning Board is Sir David Nicholson, who is currently chief executive of the NHS. He is not the gentleman to whom the noble Lord referred. He currently runs the NHS. Professor Malcolm Grant, to whom I think the noble Lord was referring, will be chairman of the NHS Commissioning Board Authority, in a non-executive capacity.

Smoking

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Thursday 8th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I did not see that report, but what the noble Lord says disturbs me. I think we all want to see an increase in adoption rates and we do not want to see potentially good adopters turned aside for what may appear to be trivial reasons.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I moved Private Member’s legislation in the other place in the early 1980s and got nowhere on it. Only when legislation was moved was there a real reduction—a complete ban—on smoking in public places and only through legislation can effective action be achieved. Is it not also the case that smokers lighting up cigarettes in cars are dangerous in terms of road safety? That is an extra reason for doing it. Will the Minister therefore stop pussy-footing around and saying that this can be achieved voluntarily, when we all know that it can only really, successfully and effectively, be achieved through legislation?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord’s analysis. It is true that, on current evidence, the legislation is having a beneficial effect; I would not dissent from that. However, we know that voluntary behaviour change is eminently possible. It would explain why, between 1996 and 2007 when the legislation came in, secondhand smoking exposure in children in England declined by 70 per cent. That was driven by not only the evidence but also awareness campaigns and increased awareness in the lead-up to the legislation. Therefore, voluntary action can have a beneficial and marked effect.

NHS: University Health Centres

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 4th July 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the characteristics of each GP practice will naturally vary according to the patient population. Although a practice situated on a university campus may have higher numbers of patients who require mental health advice and support, there may well be fewer patients in need of other services. I am not aware that there is a particular issue of underfunding of university practices in relation to the mental health burden. As the noble Baroness will know, the QOF was adjusted in 2008 with a two-year time delay, so university practices have had a chance to adjust and prepare for the change.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Are university health centres gearing up to deal with cases of anxiety and depression among students at English universities who wish to go to Scottish universities for a further degree and who find that they will have to pay the full fees, unlike students from other countries in Europe? Is that not a disgraceful, discriminatory proposal by the Scottish Government? Can this Parliament not find a way of outlawing such discrimination?

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord for introducing this vexed topic into a health Question. It would be improper for me to comment on the deliberations of the Scottish Parliament.

NHS: Consultation on Reform

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Tuesday 26th April 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they propose to report the outcome of the consultation on NHS reform to Parliament.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe)]

My Lords, we ran a public consultation on NHS reform last year and received some 6,000 responses. As a result, we brought forward important changes to our modernisation proposals. We are now taking advantage of the natural pause in the legislative process to listen and reflect, supported by advice from the new NHS Future Forum. The Government will then respond to the forum’s report and the wider listening exercise, setting out the improvements that we will make to the Bill based on what we have heard.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, did the Minister see the Statement by the Secretary of State that the reason for the pause was because the Bill was allegedly not understood and he had to explain it better? Will he explain to Mr Lansley that it is precisely because the Bill is well understood that there is such widespread opposition, including an unprecedented vote of no confidence by the Royal College of Nursing? Will he give a guarantee that substantial amendments will be brought before Parliament after the current consultation? Otherwise, it will be seen as a complete sham.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I think there is widespread agreement that the principles on which the Bill is based, such as devolving control of the NHS to local levels, placing patients at the heart of decisions about their own care and improving public accountability are the right principles for us to be guided by, but that there are also, as the noble Lord said, questions and concerns, some quite deep, about what we are doing and the mechanics of putting the principles into practice. As the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister made clear, this is a genuine chance to make a difference. Where there are good suggestions to improve the legislation, those changes will be made.

Health: Sickle-Cell Disease

Debate between Earl Howe and Lord Foulkes of Cumnock

Monday 14th March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am aware of the tragic case to which my noble friend refers, which is of course the subject of an investigation at the moment. The facts, as I am aware of them, suggest that the failings that occurred in that case were more to do with poor practice than a lack of training, although we will see what emerges from the inquiry. However, I can tell her that there is national guidance on the symptoms and emergency treatment of people with sickle-cell disease, published by the Joint Royal Colleges Ambulance Liaison Committee. All ambulance crew staff receive training in the assessment and management of patients with sickle-cell conditions in line with those guidelines and further national guidance was issued to staff in 2009. It is regularly updated and it is taken very seriously.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

Do both of the Minister’s replies apply also to Scotland?