Smoke-free (Private Vehicles) Regulations 2015
(9 years, 9 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con)
My Lords, these regulations aim to protect children from the harms of second-hand smoke in private vehicles. In 2007, smoke-free legislation was introduced in England and Wales to protect employees and the public from the harmful effects of second-hand smoke in public places, work premises and vehicles. At that time, the legislation was not intended to extend to private vehicles.
The Children and Families Act 2014 amended the Health Act 2006 to give the Secretary of State regulation-making powers to make private vehicles smoke-free places when carrying children under the age of 18. Second-hand smoke is a serious health hazard, and there is no safe level of exposure. Every time someone breathes in second-hand smoke, they breathe in more than 4,000 chemicals. Many are highly toxic, and more than 50 are known to cause cancer. Second-hand smoke is a real and substantial threat to child health, causing a variety of adverse health effects, including increased susceptibility to lower respiratory tract infections such as pneumonia and bronchitis, the worsening of asthma, middle ear disease, decreased lung function and sudden infant death syndrome. We also know that children are more vulnerable to second-hand smoke exposure in vehicles as they breathe more rapidly and inhale more pollutants than adults.
A significant number of children say that they are exposed to second-hand smoke in private vehicles. In 2012, 26% of 11 to 15 year-olds reported being exposed to second-hand smoke in their family’s car and 30% in someone else’s car. We estimate that approximately 3 million children in England are exposed to second-hand smoke in their family car.
Research shows that smoking in vehicles can result in the build-up of high levels of second-hand smoke, which can persist even when windows are open or the ventilation system is in use. Many children feel unable to ask someone to stop smoking when travelling in a car. Research shows that 34% of children who are exposed to second-hand smoke in vehicles do not feel able to ask the person smoking to stop, because they are frightened or embarrassed.
The Government are committed to protecting children from the harms associated with smoking. Much support has been expressed in this House for ending smoking in vehicles carrying children. I commend all the noble Lords who have campaigned for the introduction of these provisions, particularly my noble friend Lord Ribeiro, who sought to introduce similar measures in his Private Member’s Bill.
The regulations extend the existing smoke-free legislation by setting out the circumstances when private vehicles are smoke-free. Specifically, they amend the current regulations that make public vehicles and work vehicles smoke-free so that all road vehicles that are not already smoke-free will be smoke-free places when they are enclosed and a person under 18 is present in the vehicle. As with the existing smoke-free legislation, the regulations do not apply to ships, hovercraft and aircraft, as they are covered under different legislation, and they do not apply to motor homes, camper vans and caravans when they are being used as a home. This is because the policy aim is for the regulations to apply to vehicles, not homes.
Lord Ribeiro (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his very kind words. This is a good-news day for children. These regulations and the Bill that went through are about protecting our children in the future. I think that we will send a very powerful message by passing these regulations and I hope that noble Lords will support them.
There is no point in rehearsing all the evidence that the Minister has very kindly given us. However, there is evidence that there has been a significant improvement in children’s health since regulations were introduced. We have only to look to Canada, where there is a ban on smoking in 10 of the 13 provinces. The evidence suggests that since the legislation was brought in, children’s exposure to second-hand smoke has dropped by a third.
The other important thing is the Government’s intention that these regulations should be not just punitive and about fining people but about behavioural change. When there was real reluctance from the Government to see the Bill go through—both when I introduced it as a Private Member’s Bill and early on during its passage—the questions raised were how to police it and how to ensure that people stick to the regulations and the law. The very fact that the emphasis is going to be on prevention, with a focus on health, is good.
Regarding the £50 fine that will be introduced, I am also delighted that the Government have taken the view that there will be a discount of £20 for those who pay within 15 days. That is a very important incentive. I had hoped that we might be able to introduce a learning exercise similar to the one for speeding, where people get some help in understanding the hazards and dangers of speeding. I had hoped that something like that might be brought in under this legislation. None the less, there will be a review five years from now in 2020, and if the general view is that the legislation has been effective, I am sure that it will be possible to devise an educational package so that people do not see the need to smoke in cars with children present. I thank the Minister for taking through these regulations.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab)
My Lords, I greatly welcome this legislation. I want to ask two questions, which I hope the Minister will be able to deal with. Before doing so, though, I want to say why I am particularly pleased about this. In the early 1980s I tried to introduce a Bill in the other place to ban smoking in public places. I was almost literally laughed out of the House because everyone thought that it was ridiculous to have a ban on smoking in public places. Of course, it is now accepted as the norm.
I was also vilified, as indeed were all the anti-smoking campaigners, by an organisation called FOREST, the so-called Freedom Organisation for the Right to Enjoy Smoking Tobacco. I do not know how anyone can enjoy it—they just have to do it because they become addicted—but there we are. The organisation, which was funded by the tobacco companies, twisted all the figures. It was not a very pleasant experience. I know that my friends who worked in Action on Smoking and Health at the time, as well as other people, were subject to the same kind of criticism and attacks. I am very pleased that things have moved on since then and I commend the Government for pursuing this matter.
However, I have two questions. One relates to enforcement. The ban on smoking in public places has been effectively self-enforcing because the penalties and the problems that would be created by people smoking, particularly for publicans, shopkeepers and people responsible for public places, would be substantial, not just in terms of the fines that they might be subjected to but in terms of losing licences and other problems. Therefore, as I said, the ban has been effectively self-enforcing, with all but 100% compliance, I am pleased to say.
However, the legislation concerning the use of mobile phones in cars has not been so effective. I have seen a lot of people continuing to use mobile phones in cars while driving but I understand that there have been relatively few prosecutions of this extremely dangerous habit. I get the impression that the police are not particularly good at making sure that people are pursued in relation to that offence, and I am a little concerned that the offence of smoking in a car with children present will be more akin to using a mobile phone while driving than smoking in public places such as pubs, shops and so on. I would be grateful if the Minister could deal with that and give an assurance that enforcement and compliance will be more effective.
Secondly, unlike the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro—who I commend for the way in which he has pursued this issue—I am not sure that £50 is a sufficient penalty. I understand that it is similar to the penalty for parking in an inappropriate or illegal place, a much less grave offence than one that causes danger and harm to children. Many people will take the risk of smoking in a car with children present, particularly as, with no disrespect, a £50 fine to Ferrari drivers and drivers of large, expensive cars will not mean very much in terms of their regular expenditure. I wonder whether this is an appropriate penalty for the offence. The Minister mentioned a review; perhaps this matter could be looked at in that review.
Those are my only two reservations, neither of which takes away from my warm welcome to the Government for these regulations. As the Minister knows, I do not regularly welcome the things that this Government do, but on this occasion I am pleased to do so.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)
My Lords, I welcome these regulations and congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, on his work to achieve this position. Children themselves have asked for this measure. In the 2011 British Lung Foundation survey, 86% of children between the ages of eight and 15 said that they wanted protection. It is worth noting that the Welsh Fresh Start campaign, which was aimed at cutting down smoking in cars when children were present, did not have as great a success as one would have hoped, but these regulations send an important message that will change behaviour. Quite apart from encouragement to change behaviour, there needs to be a clear message out there.
The data from Wales have shown that 4% of children reported being in a car when someone was smoking almost every day, and 23% reported that they were sometimes in a car when someone was smoking. Where a parent smoked, one in five children reported that smoking was allowed in the family car. These regulations are welcome and will have a major part to play in bringing about behaviour change. Of course the fact that there are provisions for a fine is important, but behaviour change will be most sustainable in the long term.
I am grateful to the Minister for his comment that he will keep a watching brief on e-cigarettes and that that consultation will continue. I worry that we are at the beginning of an explosion of a highly addictive substance.
Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)
My Lords, I, too, welcome these regulations and congratulate my noble friend Lord Ribeiro on his unstinting efforts in this area. I stress that this new law and these regulations are not designed to turn smokers into criminals or to demonise them; they are about protecting children from the avoidable dangers that tobacco smoke presents to their health and welfare. For me, that is what it is all about. Right through these discussions, I always saw this legislation primarily as a matter of child protection. If noble Lords will excuse the terrible pun, it was about putting children in the driving seat.
When we had those early debates, I was very taken with the number of children who said that they felt that they had no control over the situation and that they were either too embarrassed or too scared to ask adults to stop smoking. The survey mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, referred to how children really want this legislation. In my professional life, we often talk about the voice of the child being at the centre of what we do. Based on that survey, we have a clear mandate from children and young people to take these regulations forward.
The Minister said that the start date will be October. In an ideal world I would have liked to have seen it earlier, but I accept the reasons that he gave. It will be incredibly important legislation in addressing health inequalities, and will go some way at least towards protecting children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds from smoke and enable them to have a healthier start in life. As others have said, this is very much about behaviour change. Certainly, the experience that we have seen on similar issues, such as public smoking and compulsory seat belts, suggests that educational campaigns, which are important, are most effective in changing behaviour when accompanied by appropriate legislation. For the effect of legislation on the proportion of people wearing seat belts, I have a figure that shows an increase from 25% to 91%, which seems extraordinarily large. Just imagine how many children’s lives will be improved if this legislation has even half that success.
The Minister referred to success being measured in terms of positive behaviour change rather than the number of fines handed out. I am sure that that is right, and I approve of that approach, but will he confirm precisely how that behaviour change will be measured?
There are very high levels of public support for the law. In previous debates, as one would expect, we heard that parents were very much in favour of this legislation. However, we also heard about recent surveys and the number of adults, including adult smokers, in favour of this legislation and the number of car drivers who support it. There is a real and growing consensus that these regulations are a good thing and should be introduced without delay.
I very much hope that, without much further delay, we will very soon debate the regulations on standardised packaging.
Viscount Simon (Lab)
My Lords, the Minister knows—I suppose I should declare it as an interest—that in January 1995 I developed severe brittle asthma. On a motorway with my car windows closed, I probably will have an asthma attack if someone is smoking a cigar in another car. Children are particularly vulnerable to second-hand smoke as they have smaller lungs and breathe faster, and their immune system is not as developed as that of adults. This leaves them more open to ear and lung conditions triggered by passive smoking.
It has not been mentioned this afternoon and it is not generally known or acknowledged, but the concentration of tobacco smoke in a car with the windows half down is much higher than the amount of smoke that there used to be in pubs in the old days, and it increases to 11 times more in a stationary car with the windows closed. If parents knew of this, I suspect that they would stop smoking in their cars, but they do not know. We therefore have these regulations before us today. The Minister has given us an excellent description of how the regulations will work, and I support them.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the regulations. They follow on from my amendment at Report to the Children and Families Bill, which was agreed by 222 votes to 197, to ban smoking in cars when children are present. I am very proud of that amendment and I express my thanks to organisations such as ASH, the British Lung Foundation, the BMA and others who lent their support to it. I echo the tributes to the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, and to other noble Lords who have been campaigning on this matter for some years, including the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, my noble friend Lord Faulkner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler. My noble friend Lord Simon persuasively and eloquently illustrated the issues that we are dealing with. I am confident that these regulations, if they come to be successfully implemented, will do a lot on those issues.
My noble friend Lord Foulkes was very brave, a long time ago, to pioneer the proposal. What he had to say about the tactics and activities of the tobacco companies was a point very well taken. I welcome the Government’s decision to go ahead with standardised packaging regulations but we know that many of those companies will do their best, through representative bodies, to sabotage them—as I think they have attempted to do in Australia. We must be ever watchful about that.
I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, that it is interesting how much public support there is for this measure. She may well have seen the work by the British Lung Foundation which has shown, in survey after survey, that a huge majority of children wanted action to be taken. We have also had the ASH poll conducted last March by YouGov, which showed that 77% of all adults—including 64% of smokers—agreed that action should be taken. Does the noble Earl agree that that shows that there is public support for measures such as this, particularly when it comes to the protection of children? I wonder whether he shares our ambition on this side of the Committee to reduce smoking prevalence to 10% by 2025 and, over the longer term, our goal that all children born in 2015 and beyond will become the first smoke-free generation in hundreds of years.
I noted that the regulations come into force on 1 October 2015. The noble Earl explained why 1 April is not appropriate but I wonder whether 1 July could not have been chosen instead. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, raised the experience in Wales. Is the noble Earl confident that the provisions for Wales will come in at the same time as those for England? Could he say a little more about the public marketing plan being developed by Public Health England? That very much relates to the questions asked by my noble friend Lord Foulkes about enforceability, which is so important. I am confident that a great majority of the members of the public will in fact respect the change in the law. The evidence is pretty strong on that. None the less, we need an effective public health campaign and the support of the police in being prepared to take action against those who transgress the law.
Earl Howe
My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken and I am grateful for their universal welcome for these regulations. I begin by referring to the remarks of my noble friends Lady Tyler and Lord Ribeiro and the noble Viscount, Lord Simon, all of whom reminded us why we are doing this—the noble Viscount from a very personal perspective. Three million children are exposed to second-hand smoke every year and we want to protect them. Existing smoke-free legislation is popular, as has been said, and has a very high rate of compliance. Personally, I credit the public with more willingness to follow the law and therefore protect their children from second-hand smoke, rather than thinking of elaborate ways to break the law.
The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about public attitudes in relation to these regulations. We know from the responses to the consultation that there is widespread support for protecting children from the harms of second-hand smoke. I do not expect people to go to great lengths to carry on smoking in cars when they know that it is an offence to do so. As has been said, legislation can be instrumental in driving behavioural and cultural change. That has certainly been true in other areas of regulation in the past. Of course, we have to inform the public in a reasonable way before these regulations come into force.
More generally, we agree that education is essential in informing people of the harms of second-hand smoke, particularly to children, and we recognise the importance of social marketing campaigns. The department and Public Health England will continue to protect children from the harms of exposure to second-hand smoke by encouraging voluntary action through social marketing. Previous campaign results illustrate that such campaigns have been effective both in changing behaviour and in driving quit attempts. Of course, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that our ambition as a nation should be to drive down the prevalence of smoking to the maximum extent that we can. We are going to monitor progress in respect of these regulations by assessing the reduction in the number of children who are exposed to second-hand smoke in cars from the current level of 26%, and it is possible to do that.
As I said, I agree with my noble friend Lord Ribeiro about the importance of building public awareness of these health harms. Once again, I pay tribute to all his efforts in this sphere of activity. I also add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for his welcome for these regulations, and I acknowledge his far-sightedness in this context, even if he felt like a voice in the wilderness for a number of years. He expressed concern about the enforcement of the regulations—in particular, in view of his perception that the police do not go to great lengths to enforce the mobile phone laws. In fact, my advice is that the police assure us that they endeavour to enforce mobile phone legislation, as they would any law. In fact, in 2012 more than 90,000 fixed penalty notices were issued for mobile phone offences. We estimate that considerably fewer fixed penalty notices will be issued for smoking in private vehicles—possibly around or slightly above 2,000 each year.
The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, also questioned whether the £50 figure was sufficient. The regulations were drafted following discussions with the police and others to provide for effective enforcement. As I said, the police have confirmed that they will enforce these regulations in the same way as they enforce other laws, such as those relating to seat belts and the use of mobile phones. It is for individual police forces to decide how enforcement will be carried out locally. They have advised that this can be taken forward by local police officers in conjunction with their wider functions on road safety. For example, when running an operation to check compliance with the laws on seat belts or child car seats, the police would also check for anyone smoking or discuss the offences with the driver if there was tobacco in the car. A fine of £50 is consistent with the existing smoke-free legislation, but that level of fine could certainly be subject to review when the regulations as a whole are reviewed.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
Was any consideration given to putting points on licences? That would be a much greater deterrent. My understanding is that people feel very worried about having any points added to their licence because of the effect: once it tots up, they could lose their licence. I understand that this is being dealt with as a public health matter but in my view smoking while driving creates a bit of a danger, just as mobile phone use while driving does. I wondered whether that was considered as likely to be a more effective deterrent.
Lord Ribeiro
My Lords, before the Minister replies, when I phrased the initial Private Member’s Bill, I put in a fine of £60 rather than £50. One of the things that I was conscious of was that the people who would be driving very young children, those strapped into the back of the car, are mothers. We do not want to introduce punitive measures that would cut across trying to change their behaviour. That is why the fine was set at that level. If we were thinking of someone driving a Ferrari or a Maserati, that would be a completely different ball game—and they would probably have a chauffeur. That is why that figure is there. The emphasis should be on re-education rather than punishment.
Earl Howe
I am grateful to both noble Lords. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, on the question of points on the driving licence, this avenue was considered but rejected because it would be inconsistent with current legislation. However, I take the point about road safety. As he will be aware, if police judge that a driver is driving unsafely, they have powers to take action under different legislation.
With regard to the position in Wales, smoke-free legislation is a devolved matter, as the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is aware. I am advised that the Welsh Government have consulted on similar provisions, and we are working with them to co-ordinate our approach where possible.
Lord Foulkes of Cumnock
I am sorry to come in again. Will the Minister confirm whether that is also the case in Scotland?
Earl Howe
My Lords, I am aware that there is legislation before the Scottish Parliament that seems to seek to introduce similar provisions, but I am not aware of the proposed timing that the Scottish Government envisage.
I was asked about the implementation date by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt. He put forward the suggestion that 1 July might have been a better date than October. We chose the common commencement date of 1 October because we judged that we would need that length of time to achieve a sufficient level of public awareness, and indeed for the police to be adequately prepared for their enforcement role.