Smoke-free (Private Vehicles) Regulations 2015

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd February 2015 Grand Committee

[Viscount Simon (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister knows—I suppose I should declare it as an interest—that in January 1995 I developed severe brittle asthma. On a motorway with my car windows closed, I probably will have an asthma attack if someone is smoking a cigar in another car. Children are particularly vulnerable to second-hand smoke as they have smaller lungs and breathe faster, and their immune system is not as developed as that of adults. This leaves them more open to ear and lung conditions triggered by passive smoking.

It has not been mentioned this afternoon and it is not generally known or acknowledged, but the concentration of tobacco smoke in a car with the windows half down is much higher than the amount of smoke that there used to be in pubs in the old days, and it increases to 11 times more in a stationary car with the windows closed. If parents knew of this, I suspect that they would stop smoking in their cars, but they do not know. We therefore have these regulations before us today. The Minister has given us an excellent description of how the regulations will work, and I support them.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I, too, welcome the regulations. They follow on from my amendment at Report to the Children and Families Bill, which was agreed by 222 votes to 197, to ban smoking in cars when children are present. I am very proud of that amendment and I express my thanks to organisations such as ASH, the British Lung Foundation, the BMA and others who lent their support to it. I echo the tributes to the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, and to other noble Lords who have been campaigning on this matter for some years, including the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, my noble friend Lord Faulkner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler. My noble friend Lord Simon persuasively and eloquently illustrated the issues that we are dealing with. I am confident that these regulations, if they come to be successfully implemented, will do a lot on those issues.

My noble friend Lord Foulkes was very brave, a long time ago, to pioneer the proposal. What he had to say about the tactics and activities of the tobacco companies was a point very well taken. I welcome the Government’s decision to go ahead with standardised packaging regulations but we know that many of those companies will do their best, through representative bodies, to sabotage them—as I think they have attempted to do in Australia. We must be ever watchful about that.

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, that it is interesting how much public support there is for this measure. She may well have seen the work by the British Lung Foundation which has shown, in survey after survey, that a huge majority of children wanted action to be taken. We have also had the ASH poll conducted last March by YouGov, which showed that 77% of all adults—including 64% of smokers—agreed that action should be taken. Does the noble Earl agree that that shows that there is public support for measures such as this, particularly when it comes to the protection of children? I wonder whether he shares our ambition on this side of the Committee to reduce smoking prevalence to 10% by 2025 and, over the longer term, our goal that all children born in 2015 and beyond will become the first smoke-free generation in hundreds of years.

I noted that the regulations come into force on 1 October 2015. The noble Earl explained why 1 April is not appropriate but I wonder whether 1 July could not have been chosen instead. The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, raised the experience in Wales. Is the noble Earl confident that the provisions for Wales will come in at the same time as those for England? Could he say a little more about the public marketing plan being developed by Public Health England? That very much relates to the questions asked by my noble friend Lord Foulkes about enforceability, which is so important. I am confident that a great majority of the members of the public will in fact respect the change in the law. The evidence is pretty strong on that. None the less, we need an effective public health campaign and the support of the police in being prepared to take action against those who transgress the law.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords who have spoken and I am grateful for their universal welcome for these regulations. I begin by referring to the remarks of my noble friends Lady Tyler and Lord Ribeiro and the noble Viscount, Lord Simon, all of whom reminded us why we are doing this—the noble Viscount from a very personal perspective. Three million children are exposed to second-hand smoke every year and we want to protect them. Existing smoke-free legislation is popular, as has been said, and has a very high rate of compliance. Personally, I credit the public with more willingness to follow the law and therefore protect their children from second-hand smoke, rather than thinking of elaborate ways to break the law.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about public attitudes in relation to these regulations. We know from the responses to the consultation that there is widespread support for protecting children from the harms of second-hand smoke. I do not expect people to go to great lengths to carry on smoking in cars when they know that it is an offence to do so. As has been said, legislation can be instrumental in driving behavioural and cultural change. That has certainly been true in other areas of regulation in the past. Of course, we have to inform the public in a reasonable way before these regulations come into force.

More generally, we agree that education is essential in informing people of the harms of second-hand smoke, particularly to children, and we recognise the importance of social marketing campaigns. The department and Public Health England will continue to protect children from the harms of exposure to second-hand smoke by encouraging voluntary action through social marketing. Previous campaign results illustrate that such campaigns have been effective both in changing behaviour and in driving quit attempts. Of course, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, that our ambition as a nation should be to drive down the prevalence of smoking to the maximum extent that we can. We are going to monitor progress in respect of these regulations by assessing the reduction in the number of children who are exposed to second-hand smoke in cars from the current level of 26%, and it is possible to do that.

As I said, I agree with my noble friend Lord Ribeiro about the importance of building public awareness of these health harms. Once again, I pay tribute to all his efforts in this sphere of activity. I also add my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, for his welcome for these regulations, and I acknowledge his far-sightedness in this context, even if he felt like a voice in the wilderness for a number of years. He expressed concern about the enforcement of the regulations—in particular, in view of his perception that the police do not go to great lengths to enforce the mobile phone laws. In fact, my advice is that the police assure us that they endeavour to enforce mobile phone legislation, as they would any law. In fact, in 2012 more than 90,000 fixed penalty notices were issued for mobile phone offences. We estimate that considerably fewer fixed penalty notices will be issued for smoking in private vehicles—possibly around or slightly above 2,000 each year.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, also questioned whether the £50 figure was sufficient. The regulations were drafted following discussions with the police and others to provide for effective enforcement. As I said, the police have confirmed that they will enforce these regulations in the same way as they enforce other laws, such as those relating to seat belts and the use of mobile phones. It is for individual police forces to decide how enforcement will be carried out locally. They have advised that this can be taken forward by local police officers in conjunction with their wider functions on road safety. For example, when running an operation to check compliance with the laws on seat belts or child car seats, the police would also check for anyone smoking or discuss the offences with the driver if there was tobacco in the car. A fine of £50 is consistent with the existing smoke-free legislation, but that level of fine could certainly be subject to review when the regulations as a whole are reviewed.