Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Can the Prime Minister confirm what the Metropolitan police has told the Home Secretary—that News International only began co-operating more fully with the inquiry in January 2011, shortly after Mr Coulson resigned from Downing street? Is he not just guilty of bad judgment in employing him, but in keeping him in post for so long?

[The Prime Minister]

The point is that the Metropolitan police made that very clear to the Home Affairs Committee, but what I would say is what I have said all along: the police should pursue this without fear or favour. They should go where the evidence leads. They should arrest whoever they choose. They could not have a clearer message, or more support from the Government.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I certainly agree that we aspire to create a reform that, although evolutionary in its implementation—it will take several years rather than happen overnight—will at least be comprehensive and create a reformed House of Lords with a far greater mandate and democratic legitimacy than is currently the case.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

In the Deputy Prime Minister’s nirvana of 15-year terms, will he consider ruling out Members of the newly elected other place standing for this place, so that we do not have people roaming around one individual constituency trying to unseat the Member of Parliament by using their democratically elected 15-year position in the other place?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman may have noticed that in the White Paper we suggest precisely that. We suggest that there should be a cooling-off period of at least one term, so that those who leave the other place cannot instantly stand for this place. That is precisely to avoid the clash that he rightly identifies.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and I entirely endorse his comments on the co-operation between the PSNI and the Garda and the recent arms finds in Tyrone. The amnesty to which he refers expired in February 2010, and we have no plans to reintroduce it. There is no place for arms in today’s Northern Ireland. Everyone can pursue their legitimate aims by peaceful democratic means, and those caught with arms will go through the due process of law.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

2. What discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the level of security threat from dissidents.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr Owen Paterson)]

Close co-operation with the Northern Ireland Executive plays a major part in our efforts to counter the threat from terrorism in Northern Ireland. This involves regular discussions with the Executive’s Justice Minister. I look forward to continuing work with the new Executive in the coming weeks and months on the security, economic and community aspects of this problem.

[Mr Hanson]

First, may I thank the Secretary of State for his tribute to David Cairns, whom I served with as a Northern Ireland Minister some years ago?

The Secretary of State will know that the PSNI is making good progress in capturing weapons and Semtex, but, with more than 100 bombings in the last year alone, I believe it is clear that supply is coming from outside Northern Ireland. Will he work with the Executive, the Home Office, the Irish authorities and, indeed, international authorities to ensure that he does everything possible to stem the supply of such material from outside Northern Ireland?

[Mr Paterson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question, and pay tribute to his work on Northern Ireland. He is absolutely right that we must make sure that at every level of government we work to stem the flow of fresh arms into Northern Ireland. We now have unprecedented co-operation. That is the case not only between the Westminster Government and the Northern Ireland Executive—I pay tribute to all those who have recently been elected to the Executive, and I am delighted that David Ford, whom I spoke to this morning, has been re-elected—but there is also exceptional co-operation with the Garda. I discussed this matter with the Home Secretary yesterday as well, so we are clearly working at all levels.

West Lothian Question

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 29th March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Paul Murphy]

The whole business of the devolution settlement is that devolved areas can decide what they spend their money on. It could equally be argued, incidentally, if one lived in north-east England, the midlands or the north-west, and if one were to divide England into regions, that certain regions do better than others. That is a matter not for today’s debate, but for future financial policy. I merely say that when the Barnett formula is applied to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, it is applied on the basis of whether spending in England goes up or down.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

May I add a further complication to my right hon. Friend’s argument? He knows that I represent a Welsh border constituency. One third of my constituents use the Countess of Chester hospital in England; 400 of my constituents work at Vauxhall in Ellesmere Port, which is supported by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills; Crewe station and the airports at Manchester and Liverpool serve my constituency; constituents go to Chester university and West Cheshire college. Am I not to have a vote or a voice on those things on behalf of my constituents?

[Paul Murphy]

My right hon. Friend wants a vote and will get it. He eloquently expressed my next point, which I will not make because he made it better than I could.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hanson]

Is it not also important, therefore, that MPs representing constituencies in England use the facilities of the Wales Office—where my hon. Friend once worked, as I did 10 years ago with my right hon. Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy)—to raise Welsh issues through the Secretary of State for Wales’s office?

[Mr David]

Yes, I think that is very important. It is necessary, in this complex mosaic of devolution in Britain, that we have a series of different relationships. Quite often the representation of English MPs to the Wales Office is indeed important. One concern I have is the lack of proactivity from the Wales Office. Increasingly people are asking—

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 15th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swire]

My hon. Friend will not be surprised to hear that I entirely agree with those sentiments. I am pleased to say that these are matters for the Executive. However, I understand that, in his capacity as Minister for Finance and Personnel, the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), who is present—at least, he certainly was earlier—will meet my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State and the Chief Secretary to the Treasury later today, along with representatives of the devolved Administrations in Scotland and Wales, to discuss financial matters, including the forthcoming spending review.

It is, perhaps, worth my adding that I echo the views of the hon. Member for East Antrim, who has said:

“In some quarters, there appears to be an unwillingness to address the serious financial questions that are being posed. Let us be clear: we cannot dodge difficult decisions in formulating a new Budget. Delaying the Budget process until next spring is not an option.”

That is the way in which to proceed.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of deep public spending cuts in the Northern Ireland Executive budget, not only for the public sector but for the private sector, which depends on many of the contracts that are let? What assessment has he made of the impact of the VAT rise on the ability of the Northern Ireland economy to escape from the recession?

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 27th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

3. What the outcomes were of the Crown Prosecution Service’s review of its violence against women strategy.

[The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve)]

The Crown Prosecution Service’s violence against women strategy, 2008 to 2011, was published in June 2008. No review has been carried out to date. Quarterly assurance is provided by the voluntary sector, and annual reports are published. The assessment of the benefits of the strategy on violence against women prosecutions will be made in 2011.

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful for that reply. Does the Minister accept that the concerted effort of the previous, Labour Government led to a 64% reduction in the incidence of domestic violence according to the British crime survey? Will he therefore ensure that potential cuts of 25% in CPS funding and his Department will not lead to a lesser focus on domestic violence issues, which are important not just to women, but to the whole community?

[The Attorney-General]

I have no reason to disagree in any way with what the right hon. Gentleman has said. He is right that, for example, successful prosecutions from charge to conviction have significantly increased, from 65% in 2006-07 to 72% in 2009-10, against an increasing volume of such prosecutions. The number of discontinued cases has fallen, from 26% in 2006-07 to 21% in 2009-10. Similar statistics apply to rape cases. Although there will clearly be financial constraints on all Departments, let me reassure him that it is certainly my intention and that of the Director of Public Prosecutions to ensure that the CPS can maintain its record of momentum and good progress in this area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I do not know whether I should welcome the hon. Gentleman’s remarks or just feel sorry for him. I have lost count of the number of times I have been in Wales since I was appointed, but I think it is about nine or 10 already. If that is the best he can do for a question—to ask how many times I have been on a train—when we are facing such economic troubles in this country, then I do feel sorry for him, which was my first emotion.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

7. When she next expects to discuss with ministerial colleagues the situation of manufacturing industry in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has discussed various aspects of the Welsh economy, including manufacturing, with ministerial colleagues and will continue to do so in the coming weeks and months.

[Mr Hanson]

How many representations has the Minister made regarding the future jobs fund and the damaging loss of more than 600 jobs in north Wales? If he made representations, why were they so ineffective, and if he did not make representations, what is his purpose in life?

[Mr Jones]

The future jobs fund is an uneconomic way of funding new employment, and it does not provide real jobs. Yesterday’s Budget statement provided firm foundations for real jobs in Wales, and that is the way that Wales will go.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As I have said, we will shortly come forward—I hope to do so well before the summer recess—to set out our plans for a referendum to give people in this country the choice to choose, if they so wish, to change the electoral system to an alternative vote system.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

May I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his position and give thanks to him for implementing a Labour party manifesto commitment that was not in the Conservative or Liberal Democrat manifestos? Will he reflect on the fact that in February the Liberal Democrats in this House proposed that an additional question—on the single transferable vote—should be asked in any referendum? If that was proposed again by his colleagues on the Liberal Democrat Benches, would he vote for or against it?

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

This from a party that back in 1997 had a manifesto commitment to hold a referendum on a change to the electoral system. The previous Government had 13 years to do that, and they did absolutely nothing. I am delighted that the right hon. Gentleman, having sat on his hands for 13 years, is finally displaying some urgency about getting on with the political reforms that his Government failed to deliver. Our coalition agreement is absolutely clear: we are going to hold a referendum on whether people want to have a new electoral system—the alternative vote system.

--- Later in debate ---

The hon. Member for South West Devon, representing the Speaker's Committee on the Electoral Commission was asked—

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

1. What discussions the Electoral Commission has had with Ministers on timing of the next parliamentary boundary review.

[Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon)]

The Electoral Commission has no statutory responsibilities in relation to parliamentary constituency boundaries, which are the responsibility of the four boundary commissions for the United Kingdom. The Electoral Commission has therefore had no discussions with Ministers about the timing of the next parliamentary boundary review.

[Mr Hanson]

Will the hon. Gentleman make sure that the Electoral Commission makes representations to boundary commissioners and, indeed, to Ministers to ensure that before any boundary review takes place, registration in constituencies rises and that activity is under way to increase it so that the 3.5 million people who are missing are put back on the register, and that any future boundaries truly reflect those who live within constituency boundaries?

[Mr Streeter]

I will obviously pass on the right hon. Gentleman’s comments to the Electoral Commission but, as I said, it has no responsibility for the boundary review. It is, however, concerned about low voter registration, and it estimates that between 8% and 9% of the eligible population in England and Wales is not registered. It is working with electoral registration officers and others to try to improve the position.

Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Wednesday 16th June 2010 Westminster Hall

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick) on bravely initiating the debate on behalf of other Members. Many of us have felt totally frustrated in the past months, particularly during the expenses scandals, and I blame all the party leaders for failing to protect Members of Parliament. They vied with one another to wear the most painful hair shirt. They have thrown us to the dogs.

This is my 26th year in Parliament and I have never felt as humiliated as I was during the expenses scandal and during the general election. I had nothing to apologise for, but in our constituencies people shouted “You’re all the same; you’re all crooks.” I object very strongly to that. I am not a crook. The majority of my colleagues are not either.

Because of IPSA I have spent many hours on accountancy, clerical work, and repeating that clerical work because forms have not been received or have been lost, and I should not have had to do that. Also, when one is doing that work from constituency offices, the online system often breaks down and cannot be accessed. Members spend a lot of time hanging around waiting for it to come back. I agree that it would be much better if the work could be done in writing. We all know that we are asked to repeat things; we are asked to send original receipts, which then get lost. We must keep photocopies of the originals and produce those again.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

We have an online computer system, but I also submit every receipt in writing and must establish my own internal office system to track the fact that I have sent the receipts. I submit the information in writing and online, and therefore duplicate the process. I am not against computer systems, but I want to find a way in which my right hon. Friend and I can do things once, not twice.

[Ann Clwyd]

I agree; and, by the way, I want to say to the press that we are not whingeing MPs. I object to that title. We are raising matters that it is legitimate to raise because they affect our performance as Members of Parliament. If anyone describes me as a whingeing MP again—and I do not know if any members of the press are responsible for such expressions—I ask them please to come and see me.

Andrew McDonald said in a letter to me dated 9 June that IPSA had met almost 600 MPs face to face at the induction sessions. I must have been at a different induction session, because the person dealing with my induction was a civil servant from the Department for Work and Pensions who is not even a member of IPSA. Where were the people who should have met me face to face? Were they the people who smiled and nodded at me on the way into the induction session? Will they please introduce themselves next time as members of IPSA, so that I can acknowledge them? It has been impossible, as we have already heard, to talk to somebody responsible at IPSA. Instead, we are asked to submit things in writing, which is time-consuming.

IPSA is hosting training sessions around the country for MPs’ staff. Again, I object that there is not one training session in Wales, so my member of staff is expected to travel to Bristol for it. That cannot be right.

Debate on the Address

Lord Hanson of Flint Excerpts

Tuesday 25th May 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Thank you for calling me, Mr Deputy Speaker. Let me begin by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Watford (Richard Harrington) for his maiden speech, and for the tribute that he paid to his predecessor, Claire Ward, who served as a Justice Minister in the last Government and who performed that role extremely well. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson), who spoke with passion about his city of Derby and with warm regard about his predecessor, Bob Laxton. He reminded me of the major triumphs of the Labour Government over the past 13 years, including the minimum wage. I well recall a debate that lasted 36 hours in which we were kept up all night by Conservative Members to vote for the minimum wage and to ensure that we achieved that bit of social progress for people not just in Derby, but throughout the United Kingdom. I congratulate my hon. Friend on his contribution.

I find myself in a very strange position. This is the first speech that I have made from the Opposition Back Benches, and indeed from the Back Benches generally, in 13 years. It is a novel experience. As my hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough (Sir Stuart Bell) pointed out, however, after the initial shell shock of an election defeat—which is what it was—it is important for us to return to the fray, start to challenge the Government on the issues of the day, and present alternatives in relation to some of the key issues raised by our constituents, which are also important to us as Members of Parliament.

Having said that, I should add that, while I think it is our job to hold the Government to account, I welcome a number of the proposals in the Queen’s Speech. For instance, I consider the agreement on the introduction of fixed-term Parliaments to be a good and progressive move. We can argue—as we will over the next few weeks and months—about the length of time involved. I think that four years is probably appropriate. However, I believe that the principle is one that we should support.

I welcome the proposal for a referendum on the alternative vote, as I would if it were included in the Labour manifesto, and the potential recall of Members of Parliament who have committed acts that are a disgrace to their constituents and their constituencies. That is an important process. We shall need to examine the details of how it will work in practice, but it is important for us to support the principle.

I also welcome the commitment to co-operation with the devolved Administrations. My constituency is in north Wales, and we have a devolved Administration. I hope that there will be co-operation not just on the potential referendum on devolved powers that will, I hope, be implemented shortly, but on the whole scope of how that devolved Administration—they remain one of the areas of Labour Government rule in the United Kingdom—will work with the new Administration here in Westminster.

I hope that the Government will not pursue one of the crazy ideas that they had in opposition: the idea that Welsh Members of Parliament would not be able to vote on English matters. Let me give an example from my constituency, which is 2 miles from the border with England. Some 30% of my constituents use the hospital in Chester, in England. Several hundred work at Vauxhall in Ellesmere Port, which currently receives a devolved grant from the English Government to support the factory’s work. Aircraft travel over my constituency from Liverpool and Manchester airports. The train line goes through Crewe and Chester to my constituency in north Wales. On all those issues there is an element of national Government responsibility which involves my dealing with England-only issues. I feel that I would be letting my constituents down if I did not have a vote on such matters, and I hope that the Government will consider such co-operation with the devolved Administration, which will be important in the future.

I also welcome the commitment to stable government in Northern Ireland. I had the privilege of being a Minister in Northern Ireland for two years and I am pleased that, five or six weeks ago, the devolution of justice to Northern Ireland took place, providing, I hope, a stable devolved settlement for the future. A great deal of cross-party work has been done and I look forward to seeing that continue in the future to ensure that we build on that stability and do not give into the terrorists who want to destabilise the devolved Administration. We must work collectively with the devolved Administration to build peace and prosperity in Northern Ireland. When I was a Minister in Northern Ireland, there were parts of that community to which I could not go, even with police and military support. Now Northern Ireland is prosperous and is facing a future with a devolved Administration involving people working side by side who were enemies for many years. We need to build on that stability for the future.

Having said what I welcome in the Gracious Speech, I turn to three areas where I have major concerns, the first of which is police reform. I declare an interest: I was until two weeks ago the Minister in the Home Office responsible for the police. We ensured that crime was down by 37%, that we had record numbers of police officers on the streets and that there were 16,500 police community support officers, introduced by the Labour Government, supporting those officers on the streets. Yet we face now a proposal radically to reform police management, with directly elected police commissioners. Superficially, that might seem to be a positive idea, but the chairman of the Association of Police Authorities—not a Labour party member; indeed, he is a member of the governing party—does not believe that it is a good solution. The Association of Chief Police Officers, the Association of Superintendents, the Police Federation and local government do not believe that it is a positive solution, and neither do I.

[Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab)]

Would not Government members do well to remember that a fine line divides improved accountability—the rhetoric behind the measure—from the political interference that could do enormous damage to public confidence in the police service in this country?

[Mr Hanson]

I agree, and that is the point that I wish to emphasise today. I believe that there is room for greater political accountability for the police service. We need to look at how we strengthen police boards, at how we improve training and at the support we give to chairs of police authorities. The possibility that individuals might become chief constables through direct election might cause conflict that would be detrimental to the service. Ultimately the police service has to serve all the people of a community and not be politicised in the way indicated by my right hon. Friend.

[Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)]

I have a lot of respect for the right hon. Gentleman but it was made clear earlier that there was no intention of having elected chief constables. In Bournemouth, the people who are asking for accountability are asking for a relationship with the police who are in charge. The police there do not answer to the people of Bournemouth directly, but to the Dorset police headquarters in Winfrith, which then answers to the Home Office. The community that needs to be represented is out of the loop. That is why the Government have proposed elected representatives; to provide that important interface between the public and the police who are supposed to be looking after them.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst)]

Order. I should remind the hon. Gentleman and the House as a whole that interventions should, on the whole, be shorter than that.

[Mr Hanson]

It is very important that we have close co-operation between individuals and communities and the police that they serve. That is why the White Paper that we published before Christmas looked at trying to strengthen police authorities and to make them more accountable to local communities, but in a way that did not involve direct elections, which I understand the proposed Bill will do. I fear that, and I pray in aid the Mayor of London—as I recall, one Boris Johnson—who did not take up his role as the directly elected chairman of the police authority and gave it to his deputy. I understand that there is a need for accountability but I do not believe that what the Government propose will achieve that objective. Let us look at the level of objections from professionals and at the needs of the service, which are to reduce crime and to build confidence in policing. I do not believe a shake-up as proposed by the Government will be beneficial.

My second point concerns the reference in the Gracious Speech to the priorities of reducing the deficit and restoring economic growth. I happen not to believe that taking £6 billion out of the economy this year will help those objectives. As my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North said, many private sector companies depend on public sector investment. Taking that £6 billion out now will greatly damage the community at large. When I was Police Minister, we had a proposal to save many millions this year through savings on IT, uniform procurement, vehicles, air support and a whole range of other things. I say this to Government Members; if we could have taken out an extra £200 million to £300 million in efficiency savings, do they think that we would not have done it? That money was not there to take out without impacting on the police service directly or on community support officers. I will challenge the Government and hold them to account on how they take that extra resource out of the Home Office budget.

The Government have proposed to restrict still further the DNA database. Before the election, we proposed that individuals’ DNA data could be held for ever if they had been convicted of a crime or for six years if they had been arrested, charged but not convicted. If the Government are proposing to reduce that, it will damage the potential to get convictions in court. There will be people who are murdering or committing rape who will, if the DNA database is restricted, not be convicted and will be let off. I do not believe that the party of law and order that now forms the Government would want that to happen.

I can show—not today, Mr Deputy Speaker—many cases when the DNA database has led directly to convictions for murder which would not have been achieved had the DNA not been taken, sometimes from individuals who were originally innocent but convicted later. I caution the Government; they must be very careful about the steps they take. I do not want to see people being killed, raped or attacked by individuals who could have been convicted through use of the DNA database.

Finally, I confess that I have an ID card. Since I have had it, I have never felt that my civil liberties were under threat. I have travelled to Austria on this card and used it to cash cheques in Britain and abroad. I have used it to secure a range of services. I have never been asked to show it to anybody and never been asked to explain why I should have it. Before they scrap the card, can the Government look at its benefits? Some individuals hold them voluntarily and wish to use them to travel and to show their identity. Can the Government look at the costs of decommissioning ID cards and the potential difficulties faced by individuals such as myself who paid £30 for the card and probably have £29.50 worth of lifetime left on it, but also at the costs of the computer system? ID cards are a valuable tool in helping to secure our borders and I hope the Government will think carefully before decommissioning them.

As I have already said, this is the first foray for 13 years back to opposing, rather than supporting, the Government. I believe that there is some good in the Gracious Speech, and I welcome it where that is the case, but there are also some real issues to do with the deficit, cutting public spending, crime, reform of the police, DNA databases and ID cards that I will wish to challenge not only today, but in the months ahead. I know that Labour Members will hold the Government to account on every issue on every day of every week of every month, because it is important that we have a strong Opposition. I hope that the Government will welcome the contributions we can make to ensure that they are up to the game in their activities, and that we fulfil our duty as an Opposition as well.