Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare my environmental interests that are in the register.

In my 25 years in your Lordships’ House, I do not think I have ever heard a Bill so roundly condemned from all quarters. I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Hodgson of Astley Abbotts, who, although he supported Brexit, is clear, as was his committee, that the Bill itself is unsupportable.

Lots of other noble Lords have said that the Bill takes powers from Parliament and hands them to the Executive, that it is a super-framework Bill or that it is super-skeletal, but I have a simple term for it: it is a pig in a poke. We are buying something that we do not know what it is going to be when we vote it through.

It is basically a deregulatory measure. The Clause 15 measures have been paraphrased as, “Ministers can do anything provided it doesn’t increase regulatory burden”, which is defined as

“a financial cost; … an administrative inconvenience; … an obstacle to trade or innovation; … an obstacle to efficiency, productivity or profitability”.

That is pretty clear and no-bones. It is about deregulation, despite the fact that regulation is often most simple and efficient way of achieving environmental outcomes.

I shall focus on the environmental issues in the Bill. Of the 3,700 pieces of EU retained law—as is currently the case; we have seen the dashboard wobble about quite a bit regarding the number of pieces of legislation that is estimated, so I do not think 3,700 is the last word—1,781 are in Defra’s court, four times more than any other department. This is the department that has already been ticked off twice in the last four months by its new environmental regulator, the Office for Environmental Protection, for not meeting the targets and deadlines that Defra itself set. So I do not really have a lot of confidence that Defra is going to be able to cope with reaching decisions about four times more pieces of EU retained legislation than any other department.

I am a very sad human being and I have read the list of 1,781 pieces of Defra legislation. I would agree with the Minister, were he to say this, that some are indeed minor, some have lost their relevance as a result of us leaving the EU, and some of them are a bit tech-y. I am sure the Minister will agree with me on that. For example, I enjoyed reading the one on

“additional guarantees regarding salmonella for consignments to Finland and Sweden of laying hens”.

That looked like a showstopper to me. However, some pieces of retained EU legislation in that list are substantial, long-standing and deeply woven into the fabric of environmental protection in this country at national and local level, and are accepted by many people as vital, operational and well constructed.

I know that the habitats regulations are a bogeyman for deregulators, but the one thing that we have to remember is that they are effective because we invented them. The noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, talked about safeguarding British self-interest—although I disassociate myself from Mrs Thatcher in that. We showed British self-interest in negotiating and leading the EU into adopting a highly effective protection system for biodiversity of species and the habitats on which they depend. We were a mover and a shaker in the EU; this was not stuff that was done to us.

I thank the Minister for meeting us last week over the Bill. When pressed, he will tell us that alternatives to the habitats regulations have already been devised in the Environment Bill and, now, in the levelling-up Bill, but that has not been made clear while we have debated these Bills. Not once during the passage of the Environment Bill was it stated that its priorities were—

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

Will the noble Baroness conclude her remarks?

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I will finish in two seconds. Not once during the passage of the Environment Bill was it stated that its provisions were intended to replace the habitats regulations. This is no sort of process, where alternatives are inserted piecemeal rather than laid out to show how they match up to what is being done away with.

The Bill is cosmetically and disastrously aimed at getting rid of EU legislation before the next election at any cost.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

The noble Baroness has exceeded the speaking limit by some margin. It is time for the noble Baroness, Lady Jones.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I recommend that your Lordships’ House not amend the Bill but not pass it.

Energy Bill [HL]

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 16th January 2023 Grand Committee

I urge the Minister, who has gone so far, to go a little further by adopting the amendments and ensuring that we understand precisely what the terms of the mitigation hierarchy are in UK law and at what stage of the planning procedures the overhead pylons will be considered, so that we have due regard to our precious marine environment and the mammals and sea birds that live within it.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall speak to the government amendments, the accompanying policy statement and Amendment 242D in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh.

There is absolutely a need for a real balance when it comes to the speed of getting both onshore and offshore wind online. There is no point in reaching net zero if behind us is the other threat that the ecosystems on which we all depend have started to collapse. The Environmental Audit Committee in the other place has already said that the planned fourteenfold increase in offshore energy production risks sensitive marine and onshore environments, so we really have to look carefully at how we get the balance between the two drivers. I share the view already put that some of the safeguards in the policy statement need to be toughened up and put in primary legislation, in a Bill.

The amendments give Ministers pretty broad powers. Although I am sure this Minister is wholly trustworthy, Ministers come and go. In common with the noble Baroness, I ask the Minister to support some strengthening of his amendments. First, there should be the clear presumption against development in protected areas, particularly marine protected areas, by avoiding those at all costs for renewable energy developments, rather than relying on shutting the stable door after the horse has gone by providing compensation. The mitigation hierarchy that the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, outlined is fundamental to that. Its principles are, first, avoid; if you cannot avoid, then reduce and mitigate impact; and then, only as a very last resort, compensate. That needs to be enshrined in law, and I look forward to the Minister’s response on where the mitigation hierarchy is in legal terms.

There is a message that the Government need to give to developers of offshore and onshore wind and associated infrastructure: that, to be honest, avoiding protected areas, particularly MPAs, means avoiding hassle. If it looks too easy to focus on protected areas as part of the area available without too much hassle because that is all downstream, developers will not make the effort.

The second issue is compensation and making sure that it does not damage the coherence of the marine protected area network. There is an Environment Act target to have 70% of MPAs in a favourable condition by 2042; they will not be in a favourable condition if they have wind farms on them. We need a joining up of government, so that the left hand and the right hand are aware of what each is doing. Distressingly, we see that not happening from time to time in the relationship between BEIS, DLUHC and Defra. Perhaps we can urge the Minister to get the rest of government to walk, talk and chew gum at the same time. We need to make sure that there is a process for measuring the intentions of the compensation, reviewing that periodically and, if it is not working, doing something different.

The third thing that needs to be toughened is the clause—of which I am deeply suspicious—that makes it possible for Ministers to override the protections of the habitats regulations and the Marine and Coastal Access Act. I understand that the Minister will say that the imperative reason of the overriding public interest test will be used and compensation will be available, but that is no substitute for the statutory protections that have revolutionised biodiversity and ecosystem protection over the last 30 years. It would be greatly detrimental and, in my view, the thin edge of the wedge if we saw that diminution happening. We are going to have this argument in bucketloads on the retained EU legislation Bill. The reality is that these pieces of legislation have proved very effective and anything that undermines them would be a backward step. As I have said before, policy statements and ministerial commitments come and go.

Can the Minister tell us how his amendments can be strengthened to give statutory assurances that there will be no weakening of protection for designated marine sites? There is a lot of space and a lot of wind out there at sea; putting wind power sites in areas not long designated for protection—it is comparatively recently that all these marine protected areas have been declared—is not something we should see going forward. Can the Minister assure us that he will consider these concerns and come back with a way forward before Report?

[Baroness Worthington (CB)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on bringing forward these amendments to help us to reduce the delays that are often commonplace when it comes to investment in our offshore wind industry, which has been one of the crown jewels of the UK’s energy transition. We can all look back and say that it was a wise group of civil servants and Ministers who understood the sheer potential of that transition to a wind-based economy in the North Sea. Many of the jobs that have shifted from our offshore oil and gas sector in maintaining the oil rigs are now being deployed in the maintenance of this very important part of our new and clean energy system.

It is very rare that I deviate from the noble Baroness, Lady Young, in my belief in preserving the wildlife, countryside and marine environment that we all enjoy—indeed, I started my career in conservation and it is a very deeply felt passion of mine. I therefore have sympathy for the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, but—and this may seem a little heretical, I am afraid—I feel that we must take a systematic and holistic view of this. If we are going to start enshrining mitigation hierarchies in legislation, the very first place that we should apply those is to the fossil fuel industry, which this Bill largely concerns itself with. It would be disproportionate to introduce this merely for offshore wind in this part of the Bill. We should be seeking to avoid and mitigate before we compensate—certainly before we give money out to the oil and gas industry for fuel security reasons. It would be disproportionate to simply apply it to the offshore wind industry which, let us be honest, is part of the solution.

If we care about the marine environment and marine mammals specifically, the damage being wrought on those species and habitats from the existing fossil-fuel-based energy system should be first and foremost in our minds. We have no real evidence for why cetaceans are beaching. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, infers that it could be because of wind farms. We do not have evidence of that; what we have evidence of is the build-up of toxic chemicals in these mammals.

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There is evidence of offshore wind turbines creating no-take zones and preventing some of the more damaging practices associated with trawling, which we allow to continue in MPAs. Fishing, which still goes unregulated in some of our MPAs, is having a devastating effect on some of our cold-water corals in protected areas. If there is to be a hierarchy, let us start with the most damaging activities, which I would contend are fishing, oil and gas exploration and the chemicals industry; then, if we have that correct, we may want to look at offshore wind. To start there seems disproportionate and would unnecessarily slow down a sector that needs to grow.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I just want to address the Minister on what the noble Baroness has just said. She has made an admirable case for marine protected areas being protected from all sorts of things. The opportunity in front of us is to do that job as the legislation is going through on offshore wind. I absolutely make the case that saying, “Let me be good, but not yet” is not in the interests of marine conservation and some of the hugely important ecosystems that are under threat from all sorts of other things. If we wait for all of them to be addressed before addressing offshore wind, we will wait for ever, and they will be gone.

[Baroness Worthington (CB)]

Since we are having this conversation, it is not a question of putting off these measures but of proportionality and ranking those impacts according to the scale on which they are occurring today, taking into account the positive impacts of offshore wind on no-take zones and the artificial reefs they create, as well as the advances in technology that mean that floating platforms will be more common.

Then there is subsea cabling. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, did not pick up on the fact that the 30% loss she cited is very old data. We do not see those losses now, with modern technology. Subsea cabling will be the future of connections into existing places where there are already reinforced grids, thanks to the closing down of thermal plants. I do not see that we should be unduly raising issues and putting more and more barriers in the way of clean technologies delivering great reductions in emissions, as well as providing energy security and jobs. I support the Government’s amendments and I am sorry that I cannot be more supportive of the amendment proposed by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

Energy Bill [HL]

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 19th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to support Amendments 237 and 238, along with the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Young. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, set out so many of the reasons why we should support this. As she said, the rollout of community energy has ground to a near halt in recent years for reasons related to the withdrawal of the feed-in tariffs and the surely well-intentioned but hopelessly ineffective smart export guarantee, which has given community energy generators either prices which are inadequate or, where they are adequate, no confidence that they will remain so. This has been distressing for volunteers and community energy generators who have put down roots in the community and are supplying valuable services for their community, including energy efficiency—a significant omission from the Bill, which we will hear more about—and skills.

The Government effectively banned onshore wind in 2015 and are now, after seven lost years, belatedly unbanning it in rather curious circumstances. Some communities are up in arms about solar farms, and the Government have recently wobbled somewhat awkwardly between permitting and restricting them, only to now be talking about the need for a balance between farmland and solar PV. This is odd, given that meeting the Government’s own energy security strategy, published in April this year, of reaching 20 gigawatts of installed solar by 2030 would occupy only 0.5% of UK land, which is half of that occupied by golf courses. As noble Lords know, I am very passionate about food production, but I know that we can also produce a level of energy. As I said, I am not so sure that there really is a great tension when the land needs of solar are so limited.

These bannings and unbannings and restrictions and relaxations are really just the policy manifestations of community concerns about energy installations being done to them, rather than with them. The point about the vast majority of large-scale generation in people’s areas is that there is actually very little community benefit. If the Government were willing not just to see the benefits of community energy—as I am sure the Minister does—but to put in place the policy measures to support it, it would make things so much easier for all of us.

I sit on the Environment and Climate Change Committee, which has been taking evidence about boiler upgrade schemes and the like lately. One of the things about community energy is that one or two people within a community are capable of finding their way through the quite complicated government documents to obtain the subsidies, and they in turn can empower a load of residents who otherwise might not be so minded to install insulation and take up new means of energy. There are multiple benefits to this, and I find it hard to see any drawbacks. I am sure the Minister agrees.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I also support Amendments 237 and 238, to which I have added my name, and Amendments 242F and 242G in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, which, with some variations, aim to achieve the same outcome. Previous speakers talked about the role of community energy generation, which is an important one in future energy supply. It was a small but growing effort in this country and a contribution to the development of renewable energy on a local scale.

However, when the feed-in tariff disappeared for new applications that really put the nail through the head of that growth, and nothing that the Government have done in the last few years to try to reignite it seems to have worked. People have talked about Licence Lite and the smart export guarantee, but neither of these has really produced an uptick in that trend of community energy generation. We need to find a way to get around that. This depends quite substantially on reducing the barriers of upfront capital and the regulatory effort of getting a connection to the system, on making sure that there is a key partnership between the big boys and the small community energy generators, and on some sort of guarantee of purchase price and length of contract. If we do not have those, we will not get any security into the community energy generation sector through investment.

These amendments put forward simple solutions. I shall not go into any detail, because the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, has gone through them, suffice it to say that the whole issue is about how local energy generators can sell the power they generate locally through a community scheme to local communities. That is the magic bit in this area of community generation. Local schemes are developed and owned by local people, and they have local benefits in the form of cheaper and cleaner energy. They also provide other benefits for local communities.

When I was thinking about a way of describing this, it came to mind that the Labour Party used to talk about Arthur Scargill in a particular way: “He may be a bastard but at least he’s our bastard”. There is a difference between “damn windmills” and “our damn windmills”, so there is a real attraction in local support. I thought that the Government were keen on improving the popularity of locally determined schemes—I am sure that they are—which gives me huge confidence that the Minister will take these four amendments and do the job that the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, suggested some of the rest of us do: draw out the best cherries from among them.

However, I do not intend to do that. I would rather like the Minister to do it and come forward on Report with a government amendment that meets the key needs of obligating the big boys to buy from the small-scale generators; setting a predictable, fair price; and setting a minimum contract period.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I was pleased to put my name to both of the amendments in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. Most of what needs to be said has been said. I guess I need to declare my interests: I am a fairly insignificant shareholder of St Ewe community energy, which I have not heard a lot from recently—probably because of the reasons that we outlined here.

The one point I want to make is that this is exactly one of the areas that has been left out of this Bill, as the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, said. It should be in here. However, to me, although community energy is about generating power, the real importance of it is in allowing communities to come together and be a part of the national and global march forwards to net zero. When there were feed-in tariffs, there was an enthusiasm for people coming together and being part of this essential journey towards a clean economy, a clean society and the environment that communities, families, households and small businesses wanted to see in their local areas. It is not about participation in that big COP 27 or whatever; it is about the local contribution that allows people to participate in one of the most important journeys and fights that we face at the moment, which is about climate change and all the benefits that come from net zero.

Let us have this issue in the Bill. Let us ignite this sector again. Let communities participate in one of the most important objectives that we have on this planet.

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[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am happy to give the noble Baroness a detailed answer in writing but we do not see any particular limit on it. It is what the market will develop. The problem with the noble Baroness’s amendment is that she is seeking, in effect, to get every other customer to subsidise a relatively uncompetitive form of energy production. If community energy schemes are low-carbon and competitive, they will be able to take their place in the generation mix. Many of these community energy schemes are already supported and will continue to be.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

I wonder whether, in writing to the noble Baroness, the Minister could also write to us on a couple of other things, including the number of schemes that have gone through the two mechanisms that were introduced subsequent to the feed-in tariff changes. This would let us see how trends are operating in the market situation that he is describing at the moment; my perception is that it is not producing growth in the uptake of community schemes. The Government must be clear: are they keen on community schemes, seeing them as a real attribute, or are they keen on only commercially competitive ones? If it is the latter, I am almost certain that we will not see many come forward.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are keen on these schemes but, as always, the question comes down to cost. How much we are prepared to subsidise an essentially uncompetitive scheme that is leveraged on the bills of everyone else who is not benefiting from these schemes? That is the fundamental question. I am of course happy to write with the clarification that the noble Baroness asks for.

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[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 192 in the name of my noble friend Lady Hayman, which is supported by noble Lords across the House, some of whom cannot be here today, including my noble friend. Amendment 192 is quite simple in that its sole purpose is to require the Government to produce an energy demand reduction strategy. It would require the strategy to be in line with the Climate Change Committee’s recommendation for all buildings to be EPC C by 2028, and in line with the Government’s own non-statutory commitments for all heating appliances to be low carbon by 2035. The strategy would have to include interim targets, including on the development of the necessary skills needed for the strategy to be achieved, and a public engagement element.

Since my noble friend Lady Hayman tabled this amendment at the end of the summer, we have seen some welcome movement from the Government. Last month they announced an £18 million public awareness campaign, with an overall target of reducing energy demand by 15% by 2030. To do this the Chancellor, in his Autumn Statement, announced £6 billion of funding—but not for this Parliament. I believe that while the Exchequer is footing our energy bills to the tune of billions of pounds a year, it would perhaps make sense to bring forward this investment. A new energy efficiency task force was also announced, which will be charged with delivering energy efficiency across the economy to realise that 15% reduction.

The government announcements on demand are most welcome, but what is lacking is that golden thread of a strategy to weave it all together. In that sense, the amendment is highly complementary to what the Government are aiming to achieve with demand reduction. A strategy such as this would link together all the areas which need to coalesce to ensure we can reduce the energy consumption of our buildings: strategic leadership by government, providing certainty to the sector; a plan for how and where efficiency will be achieved; importantly, the jobs and skills which will be required to deliver the energy efficiency improvements; and engaging with the public so that they are fully aware of the necessity of doing this and of the benefits to them that can be realised.

The final strategy would be up to the Government to decide, as is correct, but it could include and outline who will receive government support and through what means; what the expectations will be for those who are able to pay for it but perhaps are not doing so at the moment, because they are waiting to see whether they will receive support from the Government; and what non-financial incentives the Government will use to achieve the overall target. The strategy could also outline in what order improvements to efficiency could or should be made, while it should include provisions for skilling the workforce that will be needed. As I said, the Government have already implemented or are planning to implement things which are included in this amendment, but it would be helpful for the sectors which will carry out the work, for households and building managers and, no doubt, for civil servants to have this all in one place.

I have an example: I went to visit a heat pump manufacturer a few weeks back. It made the point that we have the target of installing 600,000 heat pumps per year by 2028, which is very good, but that the dots need to be joined—for example, having the skills available to install those heat pumps and incentives for households to install them. The dots need to be joined between the production of heat pumps, demand, skills and all those other aspects. That is one of the things this strategy could provide.

Reducing energy consumption in the near term does not require every household to do an urgent retrofit or install a heat pump next year. There are small and relatively cheap improvements, such as installing loft and cavity wall insulation, draught-proofing, thermostatic radiator valves and smart thermostats. It would cost around £1,100 on average to install these in a typical semi-detached house, which would cut energy bills by £273 annually. Under current energy prices, these costs would pay for themselves in just five years. The earlier we take action, the bigger the aggregate savings will be.

I also note that this approach would be popular with the public. Various organisations have come out in favour of a strategy like this. In a recent briefing, UKSIF, E3G and Carbon Tracker stated that improving the efficiency of the UK housing stock could lead to bill savings of at least £500 every year per household, and around £1,000 per year for the least efficient homes—an aggregate annual saving to the economy of £10 billion. Insulated buildings are also less damp and healthier to live in. I beg to move Amendment 192.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 192 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, which has been so ably introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale. The crux of it is that it calls for joined-up policies around energy demand management, low-carbon heat and energy efficiency by requiring a national energy demand reduction strategy.

I have the privilege of sitting on your Lordships’ Environment and Climate Change Select Committee, and our current inquiry, as noble Lords have already heard, is into the boiler upgrade scheme. Indeed, we had an interesting session with the Minister last week. We have been hearing evidence from the UK and internationally, particularly those countries which are further ahead on air and ground-source heat pump adoption than we are. Both national and international witnesses have confirmed the importance of the key elements of this amendment.

The first is joining up policies by having multiple instruments clustered together and working to maximise uptake of grants and loans. Regulatory bars on old technology should be signalled in advance, but not too far in advance. There should be public information campaigns and effective campaigning for the positive promotion of energy demand reduction.

The second feature that comes clearly in this amendment is that low-carbon heat is not enough. Our housing stock is among the worst in western Europe. Low-carbon heat needs to be linked much more closely than it currently is with effective energy efficiency programmes, and both need interlinked targets so that progress can be co-ordinated and measured. The whole issue of rising energy prices has brought this into sharp focus. We expect to see nearly 11 million households in fuel poverty this winter. Many of those households live in houses that typify the UK as having the worst-insulated housing stock in western Europe.

There needs to be huge progress in energy efficiency as part of the mix but I caution an overreliance on EPCs as a means of judging that, because they are very imprecise instruments. In fact, they can have some peculiar outcomes: if you have an air source heat pump installed in your building you will not necessarily get a higher rated EPC as a result. We have to be sure that we are not inadvertently placing a trap for ourselves for buildings, particularly old and heritage buildings, that will never reach EPC band C.

The third element of the integrated strategy the amendment calls for is the issue of skills in installing and maintaining low-carbon technologies, and in installing energy-efficiency measures. Energy-efficiency skills are much more timeworn and easier. Skills for installing low-carbon technologies are more complex and we are only at the beginning of the road. NESTA has estimated that there were around 3,000 heat pump engineers as of July. It projects that we will need around 27,000 heat pump engineers if the Government are to meet that target of 600,000 installations a year by 2028. There has to be a really big investment in skills programmes. I had a figure that I have now lost, but the German Government have put about €28 million towards skills improvement. We need to be in that ballpark.

The fourth thing is public engagement. I commend the Government for, at long last, having lurched into action with their “It All Adds Up” campaign, but that is rather late in the day and very much short term in the face of price rises. It needs to be sustained and not overly to rely on social media and the public being left to seek out digital sources. I am glad that it will contain a couple of TV ads, but you do not get much television advertising for an £18 million budget these days.

The national energy demand reduction strategy that the amendment proposes would be well worth while in bringing these issues together in a co-ordinated way.

[Lord Foster of Bath (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 197, 198A, 198B and 212. While I acknowledge that there are some differences between the targets referred to in Amendment 192 and my own, I nevertheless support the principles behind the amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, which was so ably introduced. The main purport of my amendments, and part of her Amendment 192, relates to energy efficiency and the important, urgent need to improve that in some 19 million homes across the UK. which are currently classed as energy inefficient—those rated below EPC band C. I say in passing to the noble Baroness, Lady Young, that I entirely agree that we urgently need to address the way we take the measurements that we currently use in our very out-of-date EPC system.

I have raised the issue of energy efficiency on numerous occasions in your Lordship’s House and have arguing for a crash programme of energy efficiency to reduce fuel consumption and fuel bills for years to come. Yet, sadly, even in the past year, work on home energy efficiency has plunged by 50% and is now at its lowest level since 2018. A decade ago, 2.3 million homes had energy-efficiency measures being installed; now it is nothing like that.

Energy Bill [HL]

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 12th December 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, in her two Amendments 130A and 130B and stress that the measurement, monitoring and verification of UK removals is vital. I declare an interest as chairman of the Woodland Trust. I have just been involved in the bowels of the woodland carbon code. It is quite staggering to think that many of these verified units of removal will not achieve full verification for 20, 30, 40 or 50 years and are then required to persist for 100 years. We have to find a way of inventing a system that will keep an eye on a plethora of landowners and land interests who are planting trees to sequester carbon and have that effective supervision, light-touch as it may be, for 100 years.

This will be quite a challenge. It is something I would appreciate the Minister responding to. We are now in the middle of implementing the peat carbon code, which will have similar difficulties, but perhaps the most important one has not yet been developed: the soils carbon code. That is of far more potential than either the peatland or woodland carbon codes in sequestering carbon. It will be a very widespread code because soils exist everywhere, though not all of them will be potentially good at sequestering carbon. I urge the Minister to accept these two amendments and give us a feel, as it were, of those 100 years and how the complexity of the carbon codes can be relied upon.

Before I finish, I make a similar apology to that of my noble friend Lord Whitty, as I was not here to speak to my Amendment 119. I did not miscalculate the pace at which the Bill would go; I was miscalculating the pace at which a snowed-in train would move. Since the Minister is appearing before the Environment and Climate Change Committee on Wednesday, I can ask him the question then anyway.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

This has become a very rich debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, for putting her amendments forward to enable us to have these broader discussions. We have said from the start that the difficulty with this Bill is the things that are not in it; this is one area we can all learn from and hopefully move forward on.

I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for the explanation of her Amendments 130A and 130B. I am sure that we would all welcome more clarity in these areas, and indeed a strategy so that we can bring confidence and certainty to the sector in the way that she described.

I will focus most on Amendment 124A in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, in my comments and, in particular, the notion of adding local carbon transport schemes to the section on low-carbon heat schemes—indeed, to run alongside them.

As many will know, this was last looked at under the last Labour Government, with the 2009 report Low Carbon Transport: A Greener Future, which, interestingly, was published by the DfT. It made recommendations on supporting a shift to new technologies and fuels, promoting lower-carbon choices, and using market mechanisms to encourage a shift to lower-carbon transport. Of course we have moved on in many ways, but these principles should not be overlooked and we should continue to put in our full effort.

Specifically on hydrogen vehicles, we believe there is merit in looking at potential in the HGV sector. The discussions about shipping were interesting as well, but we feel that so much more focus needs to be put on alternatives, certainly in the short-term. Electric is obviously being looked at.

It is important to debate this at this point because, with the global situation regarding gas supplies, we are focusing our attention on domestic energy in particular, for obvious reasons—the cost of living crisis, security issues and all that goes with it—but we have to bear in mind that transport is one of the biggest sources of carbon emissions in the UK. In 2019, it accounted for 34% of the UK’s total carbon emissions. Its emissions have remained largely unchanged since the 1990s, which we cannot say about the energy supply generally. We have to ask why transport is such a poor performer.

We need to be concerned about where we get the electricity from if we continue with our ambition. If we are to reach our target of net-zero emissions by 2050, the decision to ban new petrol and diesel cars from 2030 will help, but there are so many other areas that we should focus on: alternative modes of transport, cycling and walking, and shared travel options. From my point of view, we have this enormous disconnect between transport policy and the policy we are discussing. We need to pick it up and take it seriously.

I speak with my experience of being a member of Transport for the North. All the schemes we tried to bring in through the integrated rail plan to deliver not only for the travelling public but for the impact on the climate seem to have been left behind. We have discussed this before. We have had Questions in the Chamber about the lack of joined-up thinking from the Government, which needs seriously to be addressed. The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, referred to it as a lack of leadership and vagueness in the plan, but why are we not cross-referencing within the Bill to the work that needs to be done?

Speaking with my local government hat on, on building new homes, why can we not look at the schemes in Scandinavia in particular, where every new home has solar panels and the excess electricity generated is taken off and fed into personal electric charging points for vehicles? There are so many examples that we should look at.

The amendment has generated an opportunity to discuss this. I look forward to the Minister’s response to the amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, but in particular to her explanation as to why there is such a lack of joined-up thinking in these areas, where the potential could be enormous.

Energy Prices Bill

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 19th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I put on record that I am not sure I support Martin Lewis for Prime Minister, but anything is possible.

I am sure we all support the need for the Government to act urgently to protect households from the rising costs of energy and to reduce the impact of price rises on the inflation figure. I will not comment on the pig’s ear that the mini-Budget and the subsequent fiscal event have been, other than to express a real, deep sadness at the damage done to our economic credibility and international reputation.

I will focus on three issues in the Bill. I agree with much that the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, said on two of these issues. The first issue is concern about the nature of the powers the Bill gives to Ministers; the second is concern about the Bill’s impact on energy regulation, the energy market and investment; and the third issue, on the protection offered to off-grid households, has not been raised so far in the debate.

I start with the nature of the powers the Bill gives to Ministers. It must be a pretty rare event to be briefed on the same issues, with the same view, by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and the energy producers, both fossil fuel and renewable, across Britain. I had not experienced that rather unusual combination of events before.

Although it is completely right that the Government have had to move at pace to design and deliver interventions to protect energy bill payers from even greater price shocks than they are already experiencing, we must not let haste create collateral damage through unintended consequences. The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee’s report today is heavily critical—that is probably a mild way of presenting it —of the Bill. It regards the legislative sub-delegation it permits as totally inappropriate. In a previous report it branded such delegation as

“a more egregious erosion of democratic accountability than a simple delegation to a minister to make secondary legislation.”

There is no doubt what the committee thinks about it.

The committee is also critical of Clause 22 and the power to give direction as a Henry VIII power, allowing ministerial direction to modify legislation, including primary legislation. Such direction and modification of legislation would of course not be subject to parliamentary scrutiny. Apart from stressing the need for speed, the Government have so far been unable to explain why the required changes could not be achieved through secondary legislation, subject to parliamentary scrutiny and with the affirmative procedure applying, at least where it is used to modify primary legislation. Perhaps the Minister could respond on that. The Delegated Powers Committee has also asked for a time limit to be placed on the powers of direction, because currently there is none.

Some concerns within the whole range of energy producers fall in line with those of the Delegated Powers Committee. Their fears are that the breadth of powers being awarded to the Secretary of State would enable them to make greater changes to the energy production sectoral rules, without consultation or appeal. The powers being given have no time limit and the definition of an energy crisis, within which the powers are supposed to operate, is so broad that they could reasonably considered to be extensive and permanent.

I am sure the Minister will say that there is a need for speed, and that anything other than nodding through the Bill risks delaying help to the vulnerable people who are most impacted by rising energy prices. However, can he tell the House whether we will hear, before next week’s stages of the Bill, how the Government intend to respond to the two criticisms by the Delegated Powers Committee regarding sub-delegation and direction, which are also relevant to the concerns raised by the generators, both traditional and renewable?

Unlike the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, and despite the Long Title, I do not want to see the remit of the Bill expanded. I would like it to be tightened. The Bill is necessarily having to progress at such a pace that, in the absence of time for proper consultation, it ought to be restricted to the bare minimum of interventions necessary to protect the public for the minimum period of six months, until the next review of the protection measures is due to be put in place, as announced by the Chancellor. Will the Minister agree to review the extent of the Bill and the time limitation of the legislation before we consider its further stages?

The Bill also contains provisions that are unnecessary to achieve the immediate protection of consumers from rising energy prices. For example, the Bill seeks to amend the tariff cap Act, including by removing the sunset clause for the price cap. Can the Minister tell the House why the amendment to the tariff cap Act is necessary for measures which are to be reviewed in three months, and changed in six months?

A further concern on the part of the renewables generators is the cost plus revenue limit, already referred to by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington. If we have hasty implementation of this limit, focusing on revenue rather than profits, and link that with the Chancellor’s statement that a further extension of the windfall tax is “still on the table”, it absolutely risks shaking the confidence of investors in renewable energy. The Minister did not really respond to the intervention of my noble friend Lord Liddle in respect of the impact on investors. Will he tell the House, when he responds, what assessment has been made of the likely impact on investor confidence as a result of the method of calculating and implementing the CPRL?

My final issue is with the equivalent measures proposed by the Government for people who are off grid—the 1.1 million homes using oil, liquefied petroleum gas and other forms of fuel. I should declare an interest as an off-grid rural home owner, unable to connect to the gas grid. Mine is an older building where there is limited potential for effective energy conservation upgrading, along with a listed building officer who appears not to like heat pumps.

There are 1.1 million homes which are off grid, and they are all in varying circumstances. Many of these off-grid homes are in rural areas and many of the poorest people in rural areas live in them. They are often older buildings with limited potential for energy conservation upgrades, and no cap is proposed for heating oil. The cost of heating oil has gone from 27p per litre in April 2020 to over £1 per litre in April 2022, although it has marginally dropped since then. That is a fourfold increase. The Government have only belatedly offered £100 per annum to oil users to help meet this cost.

The Minister will no doubt say that those off the grid will also benefit from the £400 energy bills support scheme and the £1,200 represented by the cost of living benefits targeted at low-income households. However, the reality is that electricity customers will have over £1,000 of protection through the price cap while oil users and other off-grid homes will get a measly £100. To make matters worse, there is no clarity on when this measly £100 will be paid. People have been buying their winter fuel oil in advance to make sure they have stocks for winter. They have been paying excruciating prices for months, yet all that is on the table is a very small amount, very late in the day, with no clarity as to when.

There are a small number of off-grid users who are not connected to the electricity supply either. How they are going to be reimbursed, as they do not have an electricity contract, is also a question. Can the Minister tell us how the £100 was calculated? How can he assure us that it is fair proportionately for those 1.1 million homes compared with what is being done for those who are on the gas supply? Can he tell us when it will be paid?

Can I also put the Minister on notice? I have recently done that in person. Outside this Bill I was intending to harass him on the further difficulties that off-grid homes are likely to experience as a result of the proposed reforms to the off-grid regulations. These would stop fossil fuel boilers being replaced in off-grid homes from 2026. I hope the Minister is going to be able to assure me at the end of this debate that he is not proceeding with haste towards that while the heat pump market is still in its infancy and not terrifically affordable, efficient or available. I hope he can give me assurances about the off-grid regulations, but I believe that we should tread very carefully in that respect.

If not, should your off-grid oil boiler irretrievably break down the day before Christmas, you could be propelled instantly into a complex, slow, confusing and expensive process of finding a heat pump supplier and installer—they are in pretty short supply—upgrading your insulation and radiators, and funding the upfront costs of the pump and the accompanying energy efficiency upgrades. All of this would be while burning your furniture in the background to keep your granny from freezing to death over the months this would take.

I thank the Minister for our recent conversation about this. Perhaps he can provide clarity to off-grid households on the Government’s response to the off-grid regulations, including when a formal announcement will happen. In the meantime, will he assure the House that this emergency Bill will be stripped down to the minimum measures, both in extent and time, to deliver the basic energy price guarantee to avoid as many unnecessary and inadvertent consequences as possible?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have referred to the pipeline of solar for which planning permission has already been granted or that is in scope. I think the noble Lord can see that there is a considerable pipeline of solar plants that are already coming on stream and that our target remains in place.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

Would the Minister give way on that point? I hope we can depend on him to make the point to the Secretary of State for the Environment that, if he had a proper land use strategy, he would not have a conflict between wind farms, solar farms and agricultural land. We would have a proper planned process to use our land wisely.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for that point. It is now on the record, and I will ensure that it is drawn to the attention of the Secretary of State for the Environment. In answer to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, about our negotiations with Norway, following the successful vaccine task force, we have created a new energy supply task force under the leadership of the excellent lady Maddie McTernan. She had such success with vaccines that we have now given her an even tougher challenge to solve. She and her team are already negotiating new long-term energy contracts with domestic and international gas suppliers to bring down the cost of the intervention immediately. The Government are opening negotiations with domestic and international gas suppliers on the prospects of longer term, lower cost gas contracts.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester was wrong to question whether the Bill should include suspension of green levies. In fact, we have not suspended the green levies in Great Britain; £150 of the savings will be delivered by temporarily suspending environmental and social costs being passed on to consumers. They were levied on bills, but they will now be directly funded by the Exchequer under the energy price guarantee. The Whip is telling me that I am running out of time, so apologies if I do not manage to get all the remaining points in. Those costs will be transferred to the Exchequer, so they are not borne by consumers, but they are present and still funded to help us benefit from low-carbon electricity generation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, asked about community-owned energy schemes, and we recognise the role community and locally owned renewable energy schemes can and do play in supporting the UK’s national net zero targets. These projects help encourage innovation and investment as well as community engagement with the energy challenge.

The noble Baroness, Lady Young, asked about the £100 alternative fuel payment, as did the noble Lord, Lord Rogan. This is designed by reference to past increases in the cost of heating oil in the year to October 2022. We will be monitoring the price of heating oil and other alternative fuels closely in the months ahead to see whether further payments are required at a future point in time. The noble Baroness also asked about the off-grid gas consultation. As I said to her in our conversation, we consulted last year on plans to phase out the use of fossil fuel heating on the gas grid. We have not made any decisions yet on how to move forward. The noble Baroness will be the first to know when those decisions are made and announced.

If the House will permit me just a little bit of time to say something on the important subject of Northern Ireland, I would like to touch on our equivalent support for Northern Ireland, in response to the noble Lord, Lord Rogan. In the absence of an Executive, the UK Government are taking steps to ensure that households and businesses across the whole of the UK are able to access support to manage their energy bills. In doing so we are ensuring that households and non-domestic consumers in Northern Ireland receive an equivalent level of support to those in Great Britain. I am sure that will reassure the noble Lord.

To conclude, I am encouraged by the support for the Bill, and I thank, in particular, noble Lords in the Opposition for that. I realise, of course, that on all the various subjects noble Lords have many other points that they wish to make and to put forward, but I think there is general support across the House for the Bill. As always, I look forward to continuing constructive engagement as the Bill progresses through your Lordships’ House.

Emissions Trading Scheme: Transport

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Monday 11th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a good point. The ETS already exists for domestic aviation and aviation to the European Economic Area. There is also a separate scheme developed by ICAO, which he referenced. We will need to look at how we implement that in the UK and its interaction with the UK ETS.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

With apologies to Jane Austen, it is a truth universally acknowledged that ambitious action as early as possible this decade is required to reduce CO₂ emissions as early as possible. The Minister says that we are moving faster than anyone else, but the Government have stated that the implementation of any expansion to the UK ETS following the first review of the scheme will not happen until 2026. Does he agree that this is far too slow? Can he tell the House why it is utterly unambitious?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said in previous answers, we recognise the urgency of taking swift action on climate change. I repeat: we are moving faster than any other G7 country. I accept that the noble Baroness and other Opposition Members would like to be even more ambitious, but we must look at the implications of that on the competitiveness of British industry and the effect on people’s fuel bills, et cetera. These are important matters and we must consider them in the round.

Climate Change

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Tuesday 7th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are certainly committed to action. We have published a number of strategies—the hydrogen strategy and the transport decarbonisation strategy—and the net-zero strategy will be published before COP. The noble Baroness will understand that I cannot give commitments for the Chancellor in the spending review.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

In the face of the IPCC red card to all of us, will the UK Government commit to a faster date than 2050 for achieving net zero and more ambitious targets than the emissions reductions of 68% by 2030 and 78% by 2035? The IPCC report definitely pointed those out as needed.

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Achieving the targets that we have already set will be difficult enough. I like the noble Baroness’s ambition to go even further and faster, but I think that we will stick with what we have got for the moment.

Biomass Electricity Subsidies: Deforestation

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Thursday 20th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, the biomass strategy will review all those factors. We want to continue subsidising biomass only if there are genuine carbon savings, if it does not contribute to deforestation and if it is produced in a sustainable way.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab) [V]]

I hate to disagree with the noble Lord, Lord Krebs, but my reading of the science is that it is uncertain. There is little science looking at the impact of biomass extraction in Europe, particularly in Estonia. In America and Estonia, we have clear evidence of declining numbers in protected species and biodiversity. Is the Minister aware that 500 scientists have written to protest to President Biden and the European Commission about those continued activities? Does he agree that the comparison between biomass electricity generation and other technologies should be made not with fossil fuels, which we know are poor in their performance, but with other green technologies?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The different contributions from noble Lords in this debate have illustrated that this is a contentious subject. There is much debate in the scientific community. The noble Baroness referred to the 500 scientists who have written to the US Administration. Other scientists take different points of view. That is part of the nature of the debate but it is our view that biomass, when compared to fossil fuels, is considered to be a renewable, low-carbon energy source. The carbon released from the organic material was sequestered recently from the atmosphere, compared to fossil fuels where the carbon was sequestered hundreds of millions of years ago. We will continue to follow this debate and explore the issues further in the biomass strategy. If we continue with policies supporting biomass—it is an if—we will take all these factors into account. We want to make sure that there are genuine carbon savings, that biomass is sustainable and that there is no long-term damage to the areas referred to.

Domestic Energy Efficiency: Retrofitting

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Monday 1st March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the £1.5 billion green homes grant scheme was launched by the Chancellor last July with a target of 600,000 homes. It was going to reduce carbon, create 16,000 jobs and tackle fuel poverty. The Prime Minister extended it for a year in November, yet here we are in March with it on the verge of being scrapped. As the Minister said, fewer than 25,000 grants have been made and less than £100 million of the £1.5 billion has been spent. What lessons will the Government take from this total failure into a much-needed plan B?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are of course always keen to learn lessons. I acknowledged in the previous answer that there have been significant challenges in getting the scheme up and running, but I assure the noble Baroness that considerable effort is going into improving its performance.

Green Homes Grant Scheme

Baroness Young of Old Scone Excerpts

Wednesday 6th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We are not downgrading the quality requirements, but the noble Lord makes a good point. We have had a number of these schemes over the years and we will look at what we can do in the future as well.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Oates, made a very good point: this needs to be a long-term scheme that gives the supply chain confidence to invest in and expand the workforce and create new green jobs. Can the Minister assure me that, in collecting the data that he says will come from the applicants, he will look at the assessment needed not only of the scheme’s contribution to carbon reduction but of its contribution to reducing fuel poverty in less well-off households? Can he tell us when we will see what proportion of households whose applications have been approved are in receipt of benefits and what proportion are landlords whose applications will benefit their tenants?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

We have already listened to feedback and announced the extension of the scheme until March 2022. We will always listen to feedback. I gave the figures earlier for the number of applications that have been received. In due course, we will a provide further breakdown of those figures.