Energy Bill [HL]

Lord Ravensdale Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 19th December 2022 Grand Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (Lord Callanan) (Con)]

My Lords, the Committee will note the large number of amendments tabled in my name on heat networks. These amendments are needed to ensure that Ofgem can operate effectively as the heat networks regulator. A large proportion of them ensure that Ofgem’s enforcement powers will replicate those that it has as gas and electricity regulator. These amendments also ensure that the Bill reflects the approach to regulation which the Government committed to in their response to the heat networks market framework public consultation. The majority of these amendments are minor and technical in nature. Some are a little more substantial, and I will address those first.

Amendments 162C and 162YYI will ensure that any price cap introduced through regulations in future can apply to non-domestic as well as domestic heat network consumers. They also widen the scope of the regulator’s power to conduct pricing investigations into instances where non-domestic heat network consumers are receiving disproportionately high prices.

The Government are committed to introducing consumer protection rules that ensure that heat network consumers receive a fair price for their heating. Regulations under the Bill will provide Ofgem with powers to investigate and intervene where consumer prices appear disproportionate, compared with heat networks with similar characteristics or compared with alternative and comparable heating systems.

Non-domestic heat network consumers, particularly micro-businesses, can be vulnerable to receiving disproportionately high prices from heat suppliers. We therefore consider it appropriate to make this amendment so that the regulator’s price investigation powers extend to non-domestic consumers, in addition to domestic consumers. The Bill also provides the Secretary of State with powers to introduce various forms of price regulation, including a price cap, should it be necessary to protect consumers while growing and decarbonising the market.

The Government have committed to using any future powers to set price caps cautiously to avoid undermining investment in this nascent sector and putting at risk the supply of heating to consumers. Should a price cap be appropriate in future, we want to ensure that it could apply to both domestic and non-domestic consumers. In particular, we found in our public consultation in 2020 that micro-businesses supplied by heat networks share similar characteristics with domestic consumers. We therefore consider that these two consumer groups should have similar protections. This amendment would enable any future price cap to also apply to non-domestic consumers such as micro-businesses.

Amendments 162YYV to 162YYY serve to ensure that the full extent of heat network regulatory activities performed by Ofgem in Great Britain, the Utility Regulator in Northern Ireland, consumer advocacy bodies and other entities are funded by heat networks and holders of gas or electricity licences. Last year, the Government ran a public consultation on a mechanism for recovering the costs of heat network regulation. The nascent state of the sector and small consumer base means that recovering these costs solely from heat networks would amount to an extra £10 or more on each heat network consumer bill per year. This would be too high and create risks to the competitiveness of the market and, of course, issues of affordability for heat network consumers.

The Government consulted on heat network, gas and electricity regulatory costs being spread evenly across heat network, gas and electricity consumers in Great Britain. The Government have estimated that this approach would amount to less than £2 added to each heat network consumer bill per year, and an additional 10p per gas and electricity consumer bill per year. Most consultation respondents agreed that this approach was the fairest and crucial to supporting the growth of the heat networks sector. The Northern Ireland Executive conducted an equivalent public consultation for cost recovery in Northern Ireland and determined this a desirable approach.

This amendment sets out for transparency purposes the full extent of the regulatory activities in scope of this approach to cost recovery. The amendment also includes Ofgem’s role as a licensing authority under the Heat Networks (Scotland) Act 2021 in the cost-recovery regime. The Scottish Government passed this Act to introduce their own heat networks regulatory framework. By ensuring a funding route for Ofgem to perform this role, the Government are helping to ensure that Scottish heat network consumers receive robust protections and that heat networks regulation is coherent across Great Britain.

The remaining amendments are minor and technical, so I will not detain your Lordships for too long with them. In summary, these amendments, first, ensure that the provisions relating to heat networks regulation are accurate; secondly, allow for regulations and authorisation conditions to be made about the connection of premises to a heat network; and, thirdly, relate to Ofgem and the Utility Regulator in their role as heat networks regulator in Great Britain and Northern Ireland respectively.

I hope, therefore, that noble Lords will agree that these amendments are necessary to enable a fair and consistent heat network market across the United Kingdom. The one non-government amendment in this group is in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington. I thank her for her thoughtful contributions—actually, I should do that at the end, after she has spoken. Oh, she is not here. I beg to move Amendment 161AA.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, first, I declare my interests as a project director working in the energy industry for Atkins and as a director of Peers for the Planet. I will speak to Amendment 162 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, who cannot be here today.

To give some context to this amendment, I welcome paragraph 14(3) of Schedule 15, in that it provides for all the conditions which may be attached to a heat network authorisation. All of this is welcome—in particular, paragraph 14(3)(f) refers to

“conditions about limiting emissions of targeted greenhouse gases in relation to relevant heat networks”.

However, it is noteworthy that the schedule does not include any conditions about the actual heat source for the emissions, and that is what Amendment 162 focuses on. It is a probing amendment, seeking to determine whether the Secretary of State or Ofgem already have the power to control the heat source using the heat networks and whether they are minded to use them.

There are some fuels which it may be in the public interest to restrict using in a heat network. For example, the UK Government are currently establishing carefully controlled trials for hydrogen for heating. Presumably, the Government would not want to be powerless to prevent a heat network provider using green hydrogen for heating if they had concerns about, for example, safety or the cost effectiveness of hydrogen as a power source. If the hydrogen trials are not taken forward, the Government may not want someone to use hydrogen in a heat network without effective oversight from Ofgem.

In another example, it may be appropriate to restrict the use of biomass, which is ostensibly low or zero-carbon. However, the Minister will have heard concerns from the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, and other Peers last week, and there are concerns about whether the Government would have the powers to restrict biomass for local heat networks to the sustainable practices the Minister outlined in his response to that question. Can the Minister confirm in his summing up whether the Government have powers to restrict the source of heat input as applied to heat networks? If so, where? If not, would he consider taking these powers?

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I shall speak chiefly to Amendment 162. tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, although I take the opportunity to welcome the government amendment on help for micro-businesses and say that it is great to see that happening. The noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale, has already introduced this very clearly; I shall make just one additional point and apologise to the Committee for my absence last week when a number of amendments that I had either tabled or supported were debated. I was in the Chamber with the genetic technology so-called precision breeding Bill. If we have two environment Bills running in exact parallel, it creates some difficulties. I particularly want to thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for some excellent support for some of my amendments last week.

On Amendment 162, I want to make the point that it is crucial here that we are talking about local networks; what may be appropriate in one place may be inappropriate in another. I am thinking, for example, of areas where air pollution is an issue and the kind of fuel used will be a particular issue in that area. It may, indeed, be appropriate for the regulator to take action on the basis of local conditions as well as of national polities, in terms of either the nature crisis or the climate emergency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, we move on to the zoning regulations. I very much agree with the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie. When I read through this section, I must admit that I found it extremely opaque in many ways. I will come to my own amendments in a minute, but perhaps the Minister can explain a few things to me. Clause 174(2) says:

“A heat network zone is an area in England”.


I presume that means that this is just English legislation, not for the rest of the United Kingdom, but it is very unspecific about what a network zone would be. I had assumed that it would be a single zone or single heating system, but it obviously is not. I am interested to hear from the Minister what a zone is likely to be in practice.

We then have a zone authority. Clause 175(1) states:

“Zones regulations may designate a person to act as the Heat Network Zones Authority”.


Again, as the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, pointed out, we have very vague ideas as to who this should be. I am interested to hear again from the Minister who the authority is expected to be.

Then we move on to zone co-ordinators. Who are they and what exactly do they do in comparison with the zone authority? Of course, in Clause 175(5), we have a list defining local authorities. I was delighted to see the Council of the Isles of Scilly, which I have represented in the past, there—all 2,000 souls are represented in that list. I would be really interested to understand from the Minister how all this works. Clause 175(4) says that the

“Regulations … may make provision for the Authority to require a local authority, or two or more local authorities”,


so it seems to me a very complicated landscape. I would be interested to understand how that jigsaw fits together.

Two of my amendments would change “may” to “must”; I just cannot see how it could remain “may” in those two places. The main thrust of my arguments is in Amendments 165 and 166. They are about making sure that the regulations are in line not only with the strategy and policy statement—which we have referred to many times already regarding the text of the Bill—but with, in particular, local authorities’ net-zero plans. A huge number of local authorities, as I know the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, has pointed out, now have net-zero objectives and plans to back them up. We should give credit to that and include it in the Bill. My Amendment 166 is very much on the same area of the delivery of heat networks within zones and how they fit in with local net-zero energy systems.

As I said, it would be really useful to everybody to understand how this geography is meant to work. I suppose my question is: is this just too complicated or is there some logical method here that does not get in the way, and does not create a bureaucracy that gets in the way, of these systems?

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I again declare my interests as set out in the register. I speak to Amendment 167 in my name, which really builds on the amendments that the noble Lords, Lord Lennie and Lord Teverson, have put forward to better set out the role of local authorities in this picture.

There is a great opportunity here to extend the zoning powers that we have in the Bill beyond heat networks into other areas. Ensuing that the Bill better defines local authority roles is really very applicable to the delivery of heat, because it is local authorities that know best about their housing stock and its condition and how they can deliver clean heat in their areas.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

No specific boundary is set out in the proposals. It can vary from authority to authority. It is very unlikely to be a whole region; it is much more likely to be an inner-city area, an industrial estate or something like that. It will very much depend on the local circumstances and what heating sources are available. Crucially, it will depend on local support, which is why local authorities are crucial to this process. Many local authorities around the country are already in discussions and are very keen to get on with these zoning proposals, presumably including Leeds. Although I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, does not speak for Leeds any more, I know that it is one of the pioneers in this area.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his response. He set out the reasons why district heating is particularly well suited to a zoning approach. Could he expand a little on why, for example, heat pumps or urgent retrofits are not suitable for zoning in the same way?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

They could be, but we do not want to designate a particular technology because it will vary from area to area and locality to locality. It is to be expected that heat pumps will play a part in heat network zoning. That would be the case but we do not want to be particularly specific.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ravensdale]

168: After Clause 185, insert the following new Clause—
“PART 7ALocal Area Energy PlansDuty to provide guidance(1) The Secretary of State must publish guidance for local authorities on local area energy planning within 12 months of this Act being passed.(2) The guidance in subsection (1) may include, but is not limited to, guidance on—(a) contributing towards meeting the targets set under—(i) Part 1 of the Climate Change Act 2008 (UK net zero emissions target and budgeting), and(ii) sections 1 to 3 of the Environment Act 2021 (environmental targets);(b) adapting to any current or predicted impacts of climate change identified in the most recent report under section 56 of the Climate Change Act 2008 (report on impact of climate change);(c) the data and assumptions used in creating a local area energy plan;(d) the roles and responsibilities of those involved in creating a local area energy plan;(e) the minimum standards for a local area energy plan.(3) Local authorities must have regard to the guidance produced under subsection (1) when developing local area energy plans.(4) In this section, “local authority” has the meaning given in section 176.”Member's explanatory statement
This amendment provides guidance for local authorities to help them produce Local Area Energy Plans. It aims to widen the roll out of Local Area Energy Plans among local authorities and help better define the role of local authorities in delivering the future energy system.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, Amendment 168 in my name would put a duty on the Secretary of State to

“publish guidance for local authorities on local area energy planning”

and clarify some of the criteria that should be included in the guidance. This is based on Energy Systems Catapult’s guidance and includes how local area energy plans can contribute to meeting our net-zero environmental and adaption targets.

As I said on Amendment 167, local authorities will be crucial to delivering our net-zero targets, particularly on decarbonising heat from buildings, yet the Energy Bill makes only limited reference to the vital role of local authorities in heat networks. That is a particular gap in relation to local area energy planning, which is not mentioned in the Bill, and I do not believe the Government have made a firm commitment to create this mechanism.

The Government should ensure that local authorities are given powers and mechanisms to enable local area energy planning, which is a whole-system approach and methodology to discover the locally preferred and most cost-effective means to decarbonise local transport of heat in any given place. Ofgem commissioned the Centre for Sustainable Energy and Energy Systems Catapult to develop the local area energy planning methodology and, under the pilot, local area energy plans were prepared in three areas—Newcastle, Bridgend and Bury in Manchester. Other local authorities are also in the process of developing plans, but these are piecemeal, often without funding and are taking too long.

It is worth giving a bit of context around the pilots. They divided each area into zones suitable for different types of low-carbon heating technologies. The balance of technologies across the three areas shows how different each area can be. For example, the local area energy plan in Newcastle found that roughly half the homes could be heated by a heat network, whereas it was less than 30% in Bury and only 15% in Bridgend. In Bridgend, a far higher proportion of homes would need to be heated with high-temperature heat pumps to save on the extra expense of retrofitting insulation in its poorer-quality housing stock. That illustrates how different areas can be and the benefits of this local area energy planning approach.

As I have said, local authorities have the best view of their local areas and the state of their housing stock. A joined-up, co-ordinated approach to local area energy planning, led by government and providing local authorities with the support they need could, according to the Energy Systems Catapult, save £252 billion between 2025 and 2050 compared with organic, unco-ordinated approaches to energy planning. There is real value in such an approach.

In its independent review of the heat and buildings strategy, the Climate Change Committee said that local area energy planning,

“If done well … will ensure a coordinated approach for rolling out different low-carbon heating solutions in different areas.”


It also said that,

“The government acknowledges the value of Local Area Energy Planning … but is yet to bring forwards strong policy proposals that would set a direction here.”


This is a real opportunity. My amendment is really to explore what plans the Government have to develop the institutional framework to empower and fund local authorities to roll out these plans.

As a final note, I originally considered tabling an amendment that puts a duty on local authorities to prepare a local area energy plan, but we were advised by the LGA that mandating this would be very daunting for some local authorities that may be unable to achieve this without committed government funding and support. I would be grateful if the Minister could expand on the Government’s plans to develop local area energy plans in the future. I beg to move.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale. I declare my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association in offering my support for his Amendment 168, which I would have signed had I seen it. He has clearly set out the arguments for this. I just add that this would be a significant step forward for energy democracy, with decisions not being centralised in Westminster but made in local areas, by local people.

I think back to an event I attended with Gina Dowding, who was then the MEP for North West England, which dates the event rather precisely. There was work going on by a wide range of organisations in the north-west, looking at renewables across the region. With this kind of plan, different local authorities would be able to band together in different ways, according to what worked for the geography and the energy supply systems. That would be a flexible and effective way of doing that.

I have one more point to make on Amendment 168. Last month I was in Kyiv, talking to energy managers who had suffered as much of a shock as one could possibly imagine any energy manager having to receive, which was half of their systems being destroyed by vicious Russian attacks directed by people who had actually built the systems, so knew exactly where to hit hardest and worst. The Ukrainians were holding their system together, and one of the things they stressed to me was the importance of decentralised, local systems that were holding up and helping to support the national system because the local system was able to function effectively. So, we know we are in the age of shocks and, in terms of resilience, having that local basis is crucial.

That brings me on to my Amendments 237 and 238, which together form an attempt to deliver the potential of something that we saw flowering a decade ago but was then cut off in its prime, and that is community energy schemes, where community groups come together to provide cheaper, greener power and to distribute the benefits locally. The Government have made us all very familiar with the phrase “world-leading”, but I am afraid that when it comes to community energy, it really is impossible for the Government to claim any kind of leadership in clean, home-produced energy schemes at a local level. What we saw a decade ago was a real explosion of community-owned and run renewable energy generation projects that were driven by the feed-in tariff. Indeed, I recall visiting Berwick solar farm in Sussex with the sadly late Keith Taylor, then MEP for South East England, in 2015. They said, “This is now dead. This has been killed”, by the cutting of the feed-in tariff, which of course entirely disappeared in 2019.

These two amendments reflect what is contained within the Local Electricity Bill, started in the other place. That has the backing of 314 MPs from all the major parties and aims to help community groups sell the electricity they generate to local customers. That Bill is also supported by more than 100 principal authority councils and more than 80 national organisations, including the National Trust, WWF, Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and CPRE. These two amendments offer a chance to take that Bill forward; this is the obvious opportunity to act now. Noble Lords will note that both amendments have been kindly backed by the noble Baronesses, Lady Boycott and Lady Young of Old Scone, and the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, so it has full cross-party and indeed non-party support, and I believe we will also be hearing other noble Lords speaking in support.

Similar Amendments, Amendments 242F and 242G have, been tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Lennie, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake of Leeds. I have a list setting out the differences, but in the interests of time, I will leave it to those noble Lords to set out the details of how they differ. They are very much differences of detail, rather than of the main content and intent. The Environmental Audit Committee has looked into community energy and it says that the sector could grow between 12 and 20 times by 2030, powering 2.2 million homes and saving 2.5 million tonnes of CO₂ emissions every year. That could take community renewable energy generation to 10% of the UK’s electricity generation, around 6,000 megawatts. At the moment, however, it is less than 0.5% of total UK electricity generation capacity: 331 megawatts in 2021. It is not, of course, because of the cost of generating, which has fallen very rapidly over the past decade, but is due to insurmountable costs in selling the electricity they generate and providing the operational requirements to become a licensed energy supplier. Initial costs are put at £1 million, which of course is far beyond the scale of most community energy projects.

To make it worse, community energy schemes receive no guaranteed price certainty for the electricity they generate. They knew what they were going to get under the feed-in tariff, but that scheme closed to new applicants in April 2019, at which point many schemes that were already on the drawing board and well advanced just fell apart. It is not that the Government have not been trying to encourage community energy—that is clearly their intention. There was the Licence Lite scheme route to market, but it did not put reasonable limits on costs and there was no obligation on fully licensed energy utilities to partner with community groups. More recently, we saw the smart export guarantee. That also places a requirement on larger suppliers to purchase the power, but with no guaranteed purchase price or length of contract, again making the lack of certainty killing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

As I said, we are supportive of proposals. We accept the target for decarbonising electricity production and we are moving ahead full-scale with our sails erected—which is no doubt a Borisonian term—towards that goal. Community energy will play probably a small role, but it will play a role. Obviously, larger-scale generators will supply the majority of the nation’s electricity.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for participating in this very informative debate. I was very encouraged by what the Minister had to say in response to my Amendment 168 and the work already ongoing in government. I come back to the fragmented nature of local area energy plans: some local authorities have the resources and others perhaps do not. I look forward to fleshing out the detail on that as we go towards Report.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, put it really well. The key theme running through all this is the participation of local authorities and local groups in our energy transition and about defining the part they have to play. We have these big, top-down targets—50 gigawatts of offshore wind by 2030 and 24 gigawatts of nuclear by 2050, as well as heating targets—which are all of course very necessary. But we need that bottom-up view and a better definition of the role of local authorities and local groups in supporting this huge engineering challenge, and I say that as an engineer. It is about stitching together all that local data to better inform how we respond nationally. I look forward to further discussions leading up to Report but, with that, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 168 withdrawn.

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Ravensdale]

192: Before Clause 198, insert the following new Clause—
“National Energy Demand Reduction Strategy(1) The Secretary of State must, before the end of the period of 12 months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed, publish an Energy Demand Reduction Strategy, to include but not limited to the following—(a) achieving a low-carbon heat target, of 100% of installations of relevant heating appliances being low-carbon by 1 January 2035;(b) achieving an energy-efficiency target, of all UK homes and buildings attaining a minimum EPC C rating by 2028;(c) interim targets relating to the targets in paragraphs (a) and (b), and the development of skills to achieve them, at not less than three-yearly intervals;(d) a programme of public engagement and a single source of advice provided by the Government to raise awareness of and encourage energy demand reduction.(2) The Secretary of State must, in developing the Government’s strategy on reducing energy demand, consult the Climate Change Committee and its sub-committee on adaptation.”Member's explanatory statement
This is a new Clause which requires the Secretary of State to publish a National Energy Demand Reduction Strategy to provide for delivery of low carbon heat and energy efficiency targets for all UK homes and buildings.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 192 in the name of my noble friend Lady Hayman, which is supported by noble Lords across the House, some of whom cannot be here today, including my noble friend. Amendment 192 is quite simple in that its sole purpose is to require the Government to produce an energy demand reduction strategy. It would require the strategy to be in line with the Climate Change Committee’s recommendation for all buildings to be EPC C by 2028, and in line with the Government’s own non-statutory commitments for all heating appliances to be low carbon by 2035. The strategy would have to include interim targets, including on the development of the necessary skills needed for the strategy to be achieved, and a public engagement element.

Since my noble friend Lady Hayman tabled this amendment at the end of the summer, we have seen some welcome movement from the Government. Last month they announced an £18 million public awareness campaign, with an overall target of reducing energy demand by 15% by 2030. To do this the Chancellor, in his Autumn Statement, announced £6 billion of funding—but not for this Parliament. I believe that while the Exchequer is footing our energy bills to the tune of billions of pounds a year, it would perhaps make sense to bring forward this investment. A new energy efficiency task force was also announced, which will be charged with delivering energy efficiency across the economy to realise that 15% reduction.

The government announcements on demand are most welcome, but what is lacking is that golden thread of a strategy to weave it all together. In that sense, the amendment is highly complementary to what the Government are aiming to achieve with demand reduction. A strategy such as this would link together all the areas which need to coalesce to ensure we can reduce the energy consumption of our buildings: strategic leadership by government, providing certainty to the sector; a plan for how and where efficiency will be achieved; importantly, the jobs and skills which will be required to deliver the energy efficiency improvements; and engaging with the public so that they are fully aware of the necessity of doing this and of the benefits to them that can be realised.

The final strategy would be up to the Government to decide, as is correct, but it could include and outline who will receive government support and through what means; what the expectations will be for those who are able to pay for it but perhaps are not doing so at the moment, because they are waiting to see whether they will receive support from the Government; and what non-financial incentives the Government will use to achieve the overall target. The strategy could also outline in what order improvements to efficiency could or should be made, while it should include provisions for skilling the workforce that will be needed. As I said, the Government have already implemented or are planning to implement things which are included in this amendment, but it would be helpful for the sectors which will carry out the work, for households and building managers and, no doubt, for civil servants to have this all in one place.

I have an example: I went to visit a heat pump manufacturer a few weeks back. It made the point that we have the target of installing 600,000 heat pumps per year by 2028, which is very good, but that the dots need to be joined—for example, having the skills available to install those heat pumps and incentives for households to install them. The dots need to be joined between the production of heat pumps, demand, skills and all those other aspects. That is one of the things this strategy could provide.

Reducing energy consumption in the near term does not require every household to do an urgent retrofit or install a heat pump next year. There are small and relatively cheap improvements, such as installing loft and cavity wall insulation, draught-proofing, thermostatic radiator valves and smart thermostats. It would cost around £1,100 on average to install these in a typical semi-detached house, which would cut energy bills by £273 annually. Under current energy prices, these costs would pay for themselves in just five years. The earlier we take action, the bigger the aggregate savings will be.

I also note that this approach would be popular with the public. Various organisations have come out in favour of a strategy like this. In a recent briefing, UKSIF, E3G and Carbon Tracker stated that improving the efficiency of the UK housing stock could lead to bill savings of at least £500 every year per household, and around £1,000 per year for the least efficient homes—an aggregate annual saving to the economy of £10 billion. Insulated buildings are also less damp and healthier to live in. I beg to move Amendment 192.

[Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to support Amendment 192 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, which has been so ably introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Ravensdale. The crux of it is that it calls for joined-up policies around energy demand management, low-carbon heat and energy efficiency by requiring a national energy demand reduction strategy.

I have the privilege of sitting on your Lordships’ Environment and Climate Change Select Committee, and our current inquiry, as noble Lords have already heard, is into the boiler upgrade scheme. Indeed, we had an interesting session with the Minister last week. We have been hearing evidence from the UK and internationally, particularly those countries which are further ahead on air and ground-source heat pump adoption than we are. Both national and international witnesses have confirmed the importance of the key elements of this amendment.

The first is joining up policies by having multiple instruments clustered together and working to maximise uptake of grants and loans. Regulatory bars on old technology should be signalled in advance, but not too far in advance. There should be public information campaigns and effective campaigning for the positive promotion of energy demand reduction.

The second feature that comes clearly in this amendment is that low-carbon heat is not enough. Our housing stock is among the worst in western Europe. Low-carbon heat needs to be linked much more closely than it currently is with effective energy efficiency programmes, and both need interlinked targets so that progress can be co-ordinated and measured. The whole issue of rising energy prices has brought this into sharp focus. We expect to see nearly 11 million households in fuel poverty this winter. Many of those households live in houses that typify the UK as having the worst-insulated housing stock in western Europe.

There needs to be huge progress in energy efficiency as part of the mix but I caution an overreliance on EPCs as a means of judging that, because they are very imprecise instruments. In fact, they can have some peculiar outcomes: if you have an air source heat pump installed in your building you will not necessarily get a higher rated EPC as a result. We have to be sure that we are not inadvertently placing a trap for ourselves for buildings, particularly old and heritage buildings, that will never reach EPC band C.

The third element of the integrated strategy the amendment calls for is the issue of skills in installing and maintaining low-carbon technologies, and in installing energy-efficiency measures. Energy-efficiency skills are much more timeworn and easier. Skills for installing low-carbon technologies are more complex and we are only at the beginning of the road. NESTA has estimated that there were around 3,000 heat pump engineers as of July. It projects that we will need around 27,000 heat pump engineers if the Government are to meet that target of 600,000 installations a year by 2028. There has to be a really big investment in skills programmes. I had a figure that I have now lost, but the German Government have put about €28 million towards skills improvement. We need to be in that ballpark.

The fourth thing is public engagement. I commend the Government for, at long last, having lurched into action with their “It All Adds Up” campaign, but that is rather late in the day and very much short term in the face of price rises. It needs to be sustained and not overly to rely on social media and the public being left to seek out digital sources. I am glad that it will contain a couple of TV ads, but you do not get much television advertising for an £18 million budget these days.

The national energy demand reduction strategy that the amendment proposes would be well worth while in bringing these issues together in a co-ordinated way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I disagree with the noble Lord. I have had many discussions with businesses and companies in this area, and we are providing the policy certainty they need. It is clear what direction the country is going in. We have listened to a lot of the feedback, have set out longer delivery programmes for the various schemes that we fund directly and are giving the certainty that people need. It does not make any difference to the industry, in terms of the policy landscape, to enshrine a target in primary legislation as opposed to it being an aspiration, a target or whatever other language the noble Lord prefers.

[Lord Ravensdale (CB)]

My Lords, I have listened to everything the Minister said in response and, as I said earlier, it is great that the Government are moving strongly on this and all these matters, particularly skills and many other areas. However, there is still a need for a joined-up strategy and for some of these targets to be in statute. We have learned from the green homes grant, for which one of the issues was the lack of the long-term thinking that a strategy would provide.

The real issue here, as noble Lords have powerfully articulated, is that we have picked all the low-hanging fruit—the decarbonisation of our electricity system, and vehicle and transport electrification—and now we have to move much higher up the tree to more difficult matters, such as the decarbonisation of heat. The noble Lord, Lord Foster, powerfully articulated the challenges in that area. We will have many more discussions on this leading to Report but, with that, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 192 withdrawn.