Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, having attached my name to Amendment 67 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, I will speak briefly while noting my position as a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, has overwhelmingly made the case for this, but I want to reflect on a number of things. She referred to the importance of reliability, and I can share her reflections on how rare that is. I was in Gloucester on Friday with Learn with the Lords and I waited for a bus—and it turned up at the time it was supposed to. I was quite shocked. It is such a rare occurrence, particularly when you are in a town that you do not know and you hope to rely on the timetable but you have no idea whether it is going to work. We cannot continue to have that situation.

Of course, that is an issue for visitors and for tourism but, overwhelmingly, it is an issue for local people. It is about reliability. I know of many people who have not been able to take jobs. We are greatly concerned at the moment about the shortage of labour supply in some areas, but you cannot take a job if you are not sure whether there is a bus or that the bus is not going to turn up reliably. You tell your employer, day after day, “Well yes, I was at the bus stop at the right time, but the bus did not turn up”. That is simply not a sustainable position.

On the idea of having local control, buses are a public service. They are essential to the operation of our communities. They should be controlled and run by local hands for the public good, not for private profit. There is no doubt. I do not believe that anyone can get up and say that the situation we have now, with buses being run for private profit, has been anything but a disaster. It is time to give back and—dare I borrow a phrase?—allow local communities to take back control of their bus services.

I can certainly assure the House that the Greens are firmly behind this amendment. I urge the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, to push it through if we do not get a strong response from the Minister because I think that, were we to hold a referendum—dare I use that word?—across the country, we would get an overwhelming win for this amendment to the levelling up Bill.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I wish to state our strong support on these Benches for this amendment; indeed, had I been confident in advance that I was going to be able to be here to speak this afternoon, I would have added my name to it.

In 2017, I put down a similar amendment to what was then the Bus Services Bill. The similar issue was one that we raised from these Benches in Committee. This levelling up Bill gives us an opportunity to halt and reverse the decline in bus services outside London, which has been evidenced since the so-called deregulation of bus services in the 1980s. I will not repeat the points made by noble Baronesses, but it is clear to us all that urgent and radical action is needed to stem the crisis.

The problem in 2017 with the Bus Services Act was that the Government could not bring themselves to concede that deregulation had played a key role in the decline of bus services. The Act allowed franchising and other forms of additional control for local authorities but only for larger authorities; it did not trust smaller authorities to do this. With support, there is no reason why they should not be able to do this. Further, the Act did not allow local authorities to set up their own bus companies, which is totally contrary to the evidence. Some of the very best bus companies in Britain are those heritage bus companies that are still owned and run by local authorities.

Let me give one example of the sort of thing that might happen if local authorities had this power. If a local authority of modest size finds that its local commercial company is going to cut the vital bus services that enable links between the town centre and the local further education college, it might set up its own bus company specifically to enable young people going to that college, as well as shoppers going into the next town, to use those services—it does not always have to be on an enormous scale. Who understands better than the local council what will work in local neighbourhoods? The local council is the organisation that understands local traffic patterns, the best routes, where to find most people with no access to a car and so on. If we truly want to level up, we have to improve bus services, which are disproportionately used by the oldest, the youngest and the poorest in our society, in order to enable them to access work, education, health and other vital social services. I support the amendment.

[Earl Howe (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for introducing her amendment. I am happy to say that the sentiment behind it is one with which we agree. What is more, the kind of powers that the noble Baroness is seeking already exist.

All local authorities are required to improve their local bus services through the delivery of a bus service improvement plan, BSIP, to qualify for government funding. Local authorities must decide whether to deliver improvements on the ground via a statutory enhanced partnership with their local bus operators or to pursue a franchising assessment that would allow them to operate their buses through local service contracts, in the same way that Transport for London operates buses in the capital. The Transport Act 2000, brought in by the last Labour Government, provides automatic access to franchising powers for all mayoral combined authorities in England.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I support the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, and thank him for the lead he has taken on this issue. I was pleased to add my name to his Amendments 456, 457 and 458.

I recall our debate on the regulations that were introduced during the pandemic. We were assured that this was a temporary reduction in the notification required and in the rights of local people to object. We all understood that this was an emergency, that businesses were fighting to survive and that restaurants and pubs were doing their best to carry on providing a service at a time when it was clearly unsafe for people to be gathering inside, even if the Government had allowed it. However, there was a debate about this and as I said, we were assured that this this would be temporary.

These amendments are a modest way of ensuring that residents are still given a reasonable opportunity to object to such applications. To this day, the usual way in which people find out about planning applications is via a local notice attached to a lamp post. Most people are not sitting at home scanning council websites on the chance of finding a planning application that applies to their area. Most people object because they see a notice on a lamp post, or their neighbour tells them about it. If you have sight loss, for example, you will need longer to ensure that you are aware and can write in response, because it is not as easy as it is for people with good eyesight.

Therefore, Amendment 457 is particularly important because it would remove approval by default, which is an indefensible approach to local planning. Amendment 458 is important because it would ensure that street furniture is not left cluttering up the pavement, where people fall over it. Also, as the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, has just pointed out, guide dogs have difficulty. I have a neighbour with a guide dog and if cars are parked on the pavement, the dog takes him around them or stops. So, life is made much more difficult.

Finally, public understanding of smoke drift has been transformed in the last decade. As a keen viewer of old television series, every time I watch them, I realise how different our view and tolerance of other people’s smoke is nowadays, compared with 10 or 15 years ago. What is in these amendments is well within accepted and reasonable expectation, so I support them.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I have enormous sympathy for the case made by my noble friend Lord Holmes and very much hope that the Government respond as positively as they can.

The background to my Amendment 459, to which Peers from other parties have added their names, is the arrangements made during the pandemic to support the hospitality industry. In the interests of progress, not all four of us will be speaking, and it is good to see today’s Marshalled List down to a mere 68 pages for this last day of our debate. Noble Lords may recall that during the pandemic, when it was not possible to go into enclosed premises such as pubs, arrangements were made to grant pavement licences. When the Business and Planning Bill, which introduced this concession, came before the House in 2020, I added my name to a cross-party amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, saying that a condition of licence would be that outdoor seating areas were required to be 100% smoke-free, paralleling the arrangements inside the premises.

Noble Lords across the House supported that amendment, but sadly it was not accepted by the Government, who instead inserted a requirement in the legislation that

“the licence-holder must make reasonable provision for seating where smoking is not permitted”.

Amendment 459 would reintroduce the requirement for all pavement licences to be smoke-free, which was the view of your Lordships’ House three years ago. This would contribute to the Government’s ambition to make England smoke-free by 2030—an ambition we are currently on track to miss by nine years, according to Cancer Research UK. The current temporary requirements, which are being made permanent in this Bill, would mean that councils have two options on smoking: to implement the national condition to provide some smoke-free seating, or to go further and make 100% smoke-free seating a condition of licence at local level.

Since then, two-thirds of the public, polled in 2022, did not think that the current legislation went far enough. They wanted smoking banned from the outdoor seating areas of all restaurants, pubs and cafes. Fewer than one in five opposed such a ban. That was a large sample, of more than 10,000 people, in a survey carried out by YouGov for Action on Smoking and Health.

Some councils are already doing what the public want, with 10 councils in England introducing 100% smoke-free requirements. These are a mixture of Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem-led councils in counties such as Durham and Northumberland, cities such as Newcastle, Manchester and Liverpool, unitary authorities such as Middlesbrough and North Lincolnshire, and metropolitan boroughs such as North Tyneside, South Tyneside and the London Borough of Brent. Therefore, in response to the point about practicality made by the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, practicality has already been well established by those local authorities.

When we initially tabled our amendments, the then Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government wrote to Manchester City Council, the first council to introduce the requirement for pavement licences to be 100% smoke-free, warning it that this would damage local hospitality businesses and could lead to the loss of thousands of jobs. We do not know whether that letter had the approval of Health Ministers. However, the experience from Manchester and elsewhere shows exactly the opposite: that these bans have proved popular with the public, leading to high levels of compliance, and have not been shown to cause any decrease in revenues. At the time, I reluctantly agreed to the Government’s decision to include the current smoke-free seating requirements, which, while better than nothing, do not go far enough. The current system is not only much more complicated to implement than a blanket ban; it ensures that non-smokers and children continue to be exposed to tobacco smoke, which is both toxic and unpleasant. Of course, those who work for these establishments cannot go elsewhere and will continue to be exposed to smoke.

The Local Government Association of which, uniquely, I am not a vice-president, supports our amendment for 100% smoke-free pavement licences on the basis that

“it sets a level playing field for hospitality venues across the country and has a public health benefit of protecting people from unwanted second-hand smoke … If smoking is not prohibited, pavement areas will not become family-friendly spaces”.

That is why Dr Javed Khan’s independent review of smoke-free 2030 policies, commissioned by the Department of Health and published last year, recommended that smoking be prohibited on all premises, indoors and out, where food or drink is served, as well as a ban on smoking in all outdoor areas where children are present. This 100% smoke-free pavement seating has strong cross-party support from Peers across this House. When the regulations were extended in 2021, the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, tabled an amendment to regret that the regulations were not revised to take account of the evidence of the benefits of 100% smoke-free pavement licences. That amendment was agreed by 254 votes to 224.

Last year, the Government announced several new tobacco control measures and said that in place of the long-promised tobacco control plan to deliver a smoke-free 2030, tackling smoking would be core to the major conditions strategy currently in development. The measures announced today are welcome but fall far short of the comprehensive approach that Dr Khan made clear was essential if we are to achieve a smoke-free 2030. When my noble friend sums up, can she confirm that the Government intend to bring forward further measures to reduce smoking in the upcoming major conditions strategy? We should now take this opportunity, provided by this amendment, to move towards implementing Dr Khan’s recommendations for all hospitality venues to be smoke-free indoors and out—a small but important step towards a smoke-free 2030.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 13th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I have a number of amendments in this group, which ranges very far and wide; at points, it is difficult to know what connects one with another. However, I suppose that they all have something to do with functions to be devolved to local government, which I guess is good enough.

I have tabled three amendments in the group and have added my name to the Clause 59 stand part debate in the name of my noble friend Lord Bach. My first two amendments, Amendments 89 and 90, are very much probing amendments designed to get a feel from the Government as to whether they have any intention of extending the “Devo Manchester” arrangements in relation to the NHS to other parts of the country. I have long believed that local government should have a greater role in the National Health Service. When the NHS was set up in 1948, there had been a huge debate in the Attlee Government as to whether the new NHS should be part of local government or not. In fact, there was a great argument between Nye Bevan and Herbert Morrison. Herbert Morrison, who had been the leader of the London County Council, which had been the largest hospital authority in the world before the war, argued for local government, while Bevan said that he thought that it would be a second-rate, patchy service. He obviously won the argument, although, by the early 1950s, he had changed his mind. Of course, when he introduced the NHS Bill—in this Chamber, of course—he talked about the NHS being a national service, but he stated that most of the decisions would be made locally through hospital management committees. He also made the memorable quote that when a bucket of slops is kicked over in Merthyr Tydfil, its echoes should sound in the Palace of Westminster. I suppose he was expressing the great tension about the NHS, which is that, for all the efforts to try to run it locally, the centre has continually sucked up powers and has attempted the impossible: to run this massive service through a Whitehall system of targets and other methods to try to bring the service into line.

There have been various attempts to break out from that. I was part of a ministerial team led by Alan Milburn that brought in foundation trusts as an attempt, on the providers’ side, to get much greater local ownership. The problem was that, once Alan Milburn left office, there was no one else to champion the concept, because at heart the Department of Health was very unwilling to let go. The noble Lord, Lord Lansley—whom I always tempt into these debates if I can—tried another approach with the establishment of NHS England as a quasi-independent body, again to try to take some of the decision-making away from Ministers and Whitehall. However, I suggest that, post the noble Lord, the appetite for it among his successors was pretty limited.

So we are left with a service that is under great pressure at the moment. We see Ministers scrambling around announcing plan after plan to try to recover it, and, frankly, that is not the way—I almost said, “That ain’t the way to run a railway”, but perhaps that is not quite right for those of us who travel by Avanti on a frequent basis, as the noble Lord said. When George Osborne reached an agreement with Manchester City Council—without, I think, NHS England knowing anything about it—that Greater Manchester would be given powers, in essence, to co-ordinate the running of the NHS in Greater Manchester, I thought that it had great potential.

Rather like for many initiatives, once Mr Osborne moved on it seems that the appetite in Whitehall for developing this idea fell by the wayside. I really wanted to use my first two amendments to probe the Government on whether they can confirm that, in fact, there is no intention to replicate what is happening in Manchester and that they now see integrated care systems as the way forward. If that is the case, the point I make to the Minister is that all the indicators are that local government is being treated as a very junior partner within those integrated care systems.

I want to pray in aid some very good work by the County Councils Network, which will not be so pleased with me when we come back to the issue of district councils in a few weeks’ time. I pay great tribute to its work looking at current experience of working with the NHS. It found some great examples of partnerships but the conclusion of its work is that integrated care systems

“simply do not feel like a paradigm shift towards delivering truly local priorities based on local engagement, and the question remains as to whether they are ‘joint’ endeavours or NHS bodies with some local government participation.”

Noble Lords who took part in debates on the then Health and Care Bill will remember that we spent many happy hours debating these very points and were assured by the Government that they saw local government as full partners within the integrated care systems. But the reality is that particularly the integrated care boards which commission NHS services are seen to operate primarily to tackle immediate NHS issues rather than address local priorities. The County Councils Network concludes across three themes of its research that:

“Accountability structures for ICBs … lead to NHSE and the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and not to local organisations”—


surprise, surprise—that

“Regular directives from ‘the centre’ … require senior ICB leadership to focus on immediate NHS operational issues”,


another surprise; and that there is also

“a ‘command and control’ culture that jars with collaboration and local political leadership”.

That also is a great surprise.

The County Councils Network makes a number of suggestions for improving the involvement of local government. Essentially, it argues that the department of health and NHS England

“need to fundamentally review the levels of centrally mandated activity and targets in policies and funding requirements, particularly in shared policy areas, to ensure that they are consistent with the principle of locally driven strategies.”

I hope the Minister will respond positively to it. If, as I suspect, the Government are not prepared to go down the “Devo Manchester” route, despite some encouraging signs about what it is beginning to achieve, then I think they have to show—as this is essentially a local government Bill—that local government is going to have a greater involvement in the NHS and healthcare in the future. Anyone looking at the challenges we face in health at the moment and the inequalities surely must conclude that, unless we get to grips with chronic ill health and the need to promote a much stronger preventive approach, this will not happen without full participation of local government. That is the only way we can possibly get through the crisis that our health service faces.

Let me move on to a different issue. I come to Clause 58 where, it seems to me, the Government are essentially saying, “You can have devolution, but only on our terms and by adopting this model of directly elected mayors”. I have just heard the Minister comment on this, but why the obsession with directly elected mayors, I do not know. Clause 58 typifies this. At the moment, Part 6 of the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009 provides for public authority functions to be conferred on to a combined authority subject to various requirements about authorities locally consenting. Such functions can then be exercisable by the combined authority or by the mayor personally.

But Clause 58 now amends the current provisions whereby all the local authorities covered by the function to be transferred have to agree. Under this clause, the mayor of a combined authority may make a request to the Secretary of State to make such an order. The mayor is required to consult the constituent councils of the combined authority before making the request and requires the mayor to include within such a request to the Secretary of State a statement that all the constituent councils agree to the making of this order or, if this statement cannot be made, the mayor’s rationale for proceeding. My reading is that, despite a constituent authority not giving consent, the Secretary of State can simply agree to the mayor’s request and override objections from constituent authorities. To me, that is a fundamental change from the current provision. It allows a mayor to act in an extremely high-handed way and is something that we should be very wary of.

For an example of high-handedness, Clause 59 really takes the biscuit. I suppose we should call it the Andy Street clause because it has been put in only because he was very miffed that his proposal to take on the functions of the police and crime commissioner in the West Midlands was turned down by the local authorities in that region, as they have every right to do. At the last elections in the West Midlands, Mr Street was elected mayor and a Labour candidate was elected police and crime commissioner. That was a democratic wish of people in the West Midlands, and for the mayor to come along and say, “Forget that. I want to be the police commissioner”, and the Government to come along with this clause and say they going to take the power to do that, is utterly unacceptable. I hope very much, when it comes to it, we will be able to take this wretched clause out of the Bill. I beg to move.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 91 to which I have added my name, and to Amendment 469 in the names of my noble friend Lady Pinnock and myself. I also want to express general support for the amendments in this very disparate group.

On Amendment 91, some noble Lords will be aware that I am also at the moment participating in debates on the Strikes (Minimum Service Levels) Bill and the retained EU law Bill. There are some overlapping issues, and one is the role of trade unions and the interaction between the powers of the UK Government and the powers of employers, including, of course, local government as employers.

Last week on the strikes Bill, I raised the issue of the powers of devolved Administrations. The Minister was unable to give assurances that the UK Government—who, by the way, on issues that are devolved are just the English Government—will not simply override the devolved Administrations. Applying that logic to this Bill, which purports to increase devolution within English local government, it is reasonable for us to ask what the status of trade unions within local government will be and whether the UK Government will seek to override English local authorities in the same way as they intend to override devolved Administrations. The lessons are similar in both Bills.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I apologise to the Minister. I just thought I would add to the questions now and not interrupt further.

Is this an admission by the Government that the current system of independently elected police and crime commissioners has not been effective? I cannot think of any other reason why the two separate roles should be combined unless it is felt that the separate role of the police and crime commissioner has not been as effective as the Government wished.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

In the interests of making life easier for the noble Baroness, perhaps I could add my question. What assessment have the Government done of the crossover of funding between local authorities and police services for community safety work and partnerships? That is a frequent model. When the noble Baroness says that the police and crime commissioner role has no impact on local authorities, surely, that funding flow is relevant.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I did not say that the councils do not have any concerns or interest in the role of the PCC. Of course, they do, as we have heard, with community safety committees et cetera. What I said was that the councils do not deliver any of the services required by the PCC. That is the job of the local police. Therefore, there is no crossover in that way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on her comprehensive introduction in moving this amendment about transport. I agree with everything she said. One depressing thing last week was a headline from the Government in a Written Statement, which said that they will be investing £40 billion in transport but in fact, when you look at the small print, you see that they are going to cut bits of HS2 for two years. Worse still, they have cut the investment in cycling and walking by more than half, having said that they are going to invest. There is an awfully big difference between what it says on the bit of paper and what happens on the ground.

When it comes to buses, my noble friend is absolutely right. We have to hear from the Minister, but we do have an Oral Question on Thursday, in the name of my noble friend Lord Snape, asking the Government

“what plans they have to support the bus industry in England following the end of the current bus subsidy arrangements.”

If that is not urgent, I have a message from the people who run the community transport service in Northern Ireland, saying that the Northern Ireland Executive have stopped all funding of community transport buses from the end of April. All the staff will be made redundant and there will be no community transport services in Northern Ireland. So much for making it easier for people; I hope that we will get some answers on that.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I have put my name to Amendments 92 and 98 but, in truth, I could have put it to every single amendment in this group. The amendments in my name, however, are designed to demonstrate the fundamental importance of transport functions to the effectiveness of the CCAs. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, has outlined that very comprehensively and ably.

I subscribe to the view that bigger is not necessarily better in many examples of local government, but it is undoubtedly the case that larger local authorities give you the opportunity to plan strategically for public transport and, indeed, for every strand of transport. Without powers to provide a comprehensive and strategic approach to transport, CCAs will be asked to deliver their job with one hand tied behind their backs. They will not be able to do the levelling-up job in any meaningful way.

This series of amendments asks vital questions about the powers over transport infrastructure. Powers without funding are meaningless as a tool for levelling up. The amendments also address the issue of sustainability. That is important in relation to transport, which is responsible for about one-third of our emissions.

Code of Practice for Private Parking

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Monday 28th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lucas (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on the introduction of this code of practice. I have long been a campaigner for the motorist in this and other areas and have served my time in the courts as a defendant against parking operators, so I am delighted to see this legislation reach the borders of becoming effective.

None the less, I wish that the Government had recognised that this is a difficult area, and that preparation should be included in this to amend in the light of the way that things turn out in practice. Otherwise, we will be waiting again for a chance of primary legislation before we can do anything about it, and it has taken a long time to get to this point. However, here we are, so I ask my noble friend—I do not expect him to reply in detail today, but I hope to have correspondence with him or his colleagues—whether we can set things up so that enough data is collected for us to tell quickly what is happening.

The data that I would particularly like to see collected is, first, on the volume of parking charges. That will be the best indicator of how parking operators’ business models are changing. If we see a lot more parking charges being issued, we will know that something is not working. It would be a big alarm signal if the result of this code was to push operators towards a financial model that was dependent on parking charges. We ought to be seeing the volume of parking charges coming down. This ought to be the key bit of information that is being collected and reported to the department, and not casually at the end of a year. Such information ought to be coming in monthly, once the system is up and running, so that problems can be caught early and understood early.

The other big indicator I hope the Government will look at is the volume of county court judgments relating to parking issues. It is really important what happens to parking charges. What percentage are paid and what percentage are appealed? How are they chased up? What happens in the end? How are those percentages changing? If we see an increase in the number of county court judgments, that indicates that we are seeing operators moving outside the code. In other words, they are judging that the conditions of the code are so strict that their best option is to operate entirely outside it.

It is entirely possible to do that, because if you are operating a park outside the code and go around sticking parking charge notices on people’s windscreens, about 30% of people pay them and another 20% appeal, which means the parking operator immediately knows who they are. Then there are vans with company names on them, and databases outside the DVLA collected by leasing companies and others and made available—quite how legally I do not know, but they are available—so that a parking operator outside the code can count on not a bad return on issuing parking charges.

That will show through in county court judgments because, without being able to collect through debt charges, there is none the less a way for unregistered operators to collect through solicitors who are able to obtain remuneration from the courts. To my mind, those are the two key indicators I would like to see the Government having regular information on and not, as is foreshadowed to the introduction to the code, waiting for a couple of years and then starting to look at what is happening.

There are other areas where I hope the Government will also collect data. What is the volume of appeals based on producing blue badges late? What are appeals based on? What is the pattern of appeals and what are their outcomes? What does that tell us about what is going on? How are the keeper/owner questions being resolved in general, in particular on railway land where the Protection of Freedoms Act does not apply—as it does not in some other circumstances too? What is happening in areas where tariffs exceed penalties, where it is in the motorists’ interest not to pay because they end up paying the penalty, which is less than the tariff that they would have incurred anyway?

What practice is evolving on grace periods? How are they set and how is that changing? What percentage of operators are offering remote additional payments so that, rather than being done with a parking charge, you get a text saying that you are about to go over and asking if you would like to pay some more? What is evolving in payment methods? How much is becoming digital and how much are we enabling people to pay in different ways? How is this all working with—I know cross-ministerial boundaries are difficult—the national parking platform, which the DfT is evolving in Manchester? What is happening in the pattern of the parking offer? Are we seeing movement away from payment-per-hour to having to buy a whole day in order that the revenue of the parking operator is increased? Are we seeing increased use of parking barriers?

This is a complicated area with a wide range of operators in it. We need to sort out how we are going to approach it quickly and clearly. We need to define what is legitimate, to play the role of the shepherd keeping our flock safe from wolves, and, at night, counting our sheep. I beg to move.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, in principle I am very much of the same view as the noble Lord in supporting this code of practice, because there surely is plenty to improve in the operation of private parking. As he outlined, the key question is whether the code is fit for purpose and strong enough, as well as, of course, the issue about review once we have more information.

The tackling of this problem started in the Protection of Freedoms Act. That might surprise quite a lot of people because it is not an obvious topic for an Act about freedom, but it includes a section on the recovery of unpaid parking charges and the limits on powers to remove and immobilise vehicles. That was an important area of public concern about the use of excessive power by some parking companies and, in some cases, very sharp practice.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has criticised the code’s lack of an impact assessment. Since this will have an impact on thousands of companies and millions of drivers, it is surprising that there is no formal impact assessment. The big question is how that lack of an impact assessment can be defended.

The Government apparently spoke to three companies and the British Parking Association. They predicted an apparently massive impact on the industry, which seems unlikely to me and, I believe, to the Government. If it will have a massive impact, that suggests that things are very much awry with the way the industry is being run at the moment, if it is saying that it will not be possible for it to run well and fairly within its current cost structure.

It is important to bear in mind that we are talking not just about fairness to drivers. Drivers are also people who run businesses, so the unfair organisation of private parking has a huge impact on the economy.

Of particular importance is the single appeals process. I very much welcome that concept, and the idea that there will be limits on additional charges levied on motorists. Many motorists, particularly those who travel around the country a lot, find the whole process very complex. One will not be surprised that trying to appeal a parking charge is a complex process designed to discourage one. The guidelines are welcome because parking operators are judge and jury to their own charges, so a single appeals process will be very welcome.

I also welcome some kind of concept of a standard grace period, and ask the Minister how that will be advertised, because there is talk of having a different grace period for different types of car park. The idea that someone might go in, park and be allowed only five minutes is, of course, completely unrealistic—if there is a queue to pay for parking, or if the person has three young children in the back of their car who have to be taken out and sorted into buggies, and the day’s goods and chattels taken out as well. It is important that there is clarity on that.

I am very pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, has drawn our attention to the complexity of this and the inadequacy of the powers to review the provisions of the code. With modern technology, the problems of exploitation of the data are going to get only worse and more complicated to deal with, so it is important that there is a thorough review in a short period of time.

Building a Co-operative Union (Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee Report)

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Wednesday 13th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, first, I declare an interest as chancellor of Cardiff University. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, for her leadership on the committee, and the staff and committee colleagues. The committee brings together a unique breadth of knowledge and experience from all four quarters of the UK. We have members who have been Ministers in the UK Government and in the devolved Administrations —members who have been elected not only to this Parliament but to the devolved legislatures—and an impressive breadth of legal expertise. This report is six months old but is now more relevant than ever. Common frameworks do not make the headlines, but they can be an important part of the cement holding our union together. They recognise the autonomy of the four Administrations and acknowledge that there can be divergence based on mutual consent. However, to do that job properly they must be handled with full transparency, with full public consultation and parliamentary scrutiny, both here and in the devolved nations.

The committee has repeatedly questioned the restrictive approach to consultation on draft frameworks and we have been given a variety of reasons for this. At first we were told that there was a need for speed, as all common frameworks had to be done by Christmas 2020. That, clearly, no longer holds water. The Government’s response to our report justifies limited consultation by saying that frameworks are really just about ways of working together rather than being about policy development. However, that is undermined by the rather haphazard approach to selecting appropriate consultees. For example, why is one farming union invited to give a response but not all of them? Broad consultation is an important way to increase transparency, the lack of which has been criticised in all the devolved legislatures as well as by the chairs of two committees from the other place.

Lack of transparency leads to lack of scrutiny, and the frameworks process is considerably less transparent and democratic than the EU processes it replaced, with a public debate involved in the European Parliament, for example. Overlaying on this rather obscure process the shock of the sudden emergence of the internal market Bill, and one can understand how that struck at any vestiges of confidence that the devolved Administrations felt in the UK Government’s even-handedness. Our haphazard devolution process has not really moved on in essentials since it was established at the end of the last century when the Labour Party were in power across Britain. Nobody then envisaged the political diversity we now have.

Frameworks include processes for resolving disputes, but they are not robust because they rely on the UK Government representing England at one point in the process and then acting as the ultimate UK Court of Appeal. There is a dangerous power imbalance. For our lopsided union to survive, it needs urgent attention, and the Dunlop review needs to be acted upon forthwith. If there is so much distrust in the post-EU processes at this stage, then they will not withstand the pressures when the standards start to change—environmental standards, consumer protection and so on. Inevitably they will change; EU standards will be raised, or the UK might decide to diverge.

The internal market Act has entrenched the superior position of the UK Government, with very little space for the devolved Administrations to take account of concerns and different circumstances across the nations. There are very limited exclusions from the primacy of market access principles—much more limited than under EU law. This undermines devolved powers, so it is no wonder the devolved Administrations did not give their legislative consent and the Welsh Government took the process to the courts. Overlay on this the complexity of the situation in Northern Ireland, and the position is unsustainable.

The messages are clear, the evidence was clear from across the UK, and we are the messengers. The Government ignore this at their peril. Common frameworks are humble, even banal, but vital for the way in which the UK can operate co-operatively in future.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Lords who made their maiden speeches today. The noble Lord, Lord Coaker, spoke with such passion about poverty that the gods responded immediately with a thunderbolt. In his excellent speech, the noble Lord, Lord Morse, reminded the House that his career at the National Audit Office will greatly strengthen our hand in our role of scrutinising the Government.

In his speech, my noble friend Lord Stunell said that the environmental targets exist, and many of them are perfectly good, but we lack the detailed steps on how we get there. This has been the theme of today. There are no proposed Bills in the gracious Speech aimed at cutting emissions and tackling the climate emergency. The key is there in that phrase: it is an emergency, and it requires government action this year—not next year or the year after. This applies particularly to transport-related emissions, which are responsible for around one-third of the total. They constitute a two-pronged assault on our well-being, causing ill health as well as climate change. There has been significant technological progress, so as a nation we can tackle many of the issues. However, transport is the one sector where, despite having the technology, there has been no reduction in emissions in recent years. That is because we travel more often and further. There are particular problems in relation to aviation and the increased sales of SUVs, which produce much greater emissions than average cars. Those points are being neglected by the Government.

The Government have a unique opportunity, as national life restarts following the pandemic. We can drift back largely to our bad old ways, or maybe even take a step backwards by returning in greater numbers to our cars, or the Government can use this time to steer us into less polluting habits. We urgently need the Government to lead the way, with legislation, investment and a new environmental tax regime, but sadly there was nothing in their proposals. The Government have so far shown little commitment to the steps needed to meet their targets. Rail fares were increased above inflation this year, while vehicle fuel tax was frozen yet again and grants for purchases of EVs were cut. The Government’s spending commitments include £27 billion on A roads and motorways, which academic experts have estimated will produce an astonishing 100 times more CO₂ than official government estimates. How can the Government be serious about leading COP 26 when they remain wedded to that?

The reference to the next phase of HS2 in the gracious Speech was welcome but the omission of any mention of the eastern leg to Leeds undermines the Government’s claims to be levelling up in the north-east. Yet, at the same time, they maintain their support for the outdated and damaging plan for the Heathrow third runway. There is a welcome commitment that public transport connectivity will be extended. In the previous Session, they unveiled their national bus strategy, which the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, discussed, but we are still waiting for details of the long-promised 4,000 zero-emission buses. On Wednesday, here in Westminster, the Campaign for Better Transport is launching its new campaign, “The way forward is public transport”. I hope that Ministers will find their way over to that event and pick up some good key action points.

I very much hope that the White Paper on rail reform is followed rapidly by legislation. The pandemic has stretched the current structure beyond breaking point but, again, we need action now to restructure the industry for the widespread investment in electrification and line reopenings that is so badly needed. Unlike bus services, which can be transformed in a small number of years, transformational investment in railways takes decades.

On many occasions, I have referred to the need for more measures to encourage the take-up of EVs. Motor manufacturers are increasingly concerned at the slow and chaotic development of the infrastructure to support them, including urgent investment in the national grid and a well co-ordinated and massive expansion of urban and motorway charging points. Neither of these can be left to the market alone; they need government leadership.

Then there is taxation. What is the future for vehicle taxation? Will the Government tax EVs as they do petrol and diesel cars or will there be road pricing? There are crucial issues for the future that need to be planned now. Even minor steps, such as changes to vehicle taxation to discourage the use of SUVs, would make a worthwhile difference.

In the Budget, the Government announced that they would remove APD on internal flights. Short-distance flights are more carbon-intensive. There is a need for reform of APD and aviation taxation, and, as my noble friend Lord Oates suggested, we need to follow the French and ban domestic flights that cover journeys of under two and a half hours by train.

The failure to use taxation as a weapon in the climate change fight is noticeable. I will give noble Lords another example: the Government charge 5% VAT on gas for a household boiler, but they charge 20% VAT on home improvements to improve energy efficiency. That is nonsensical.

The Government are also failing to set out the huge benefits that the revolution to come will bring to our economy: the many jobs that will come in building homes to the highest environmental standards and replacing all our gas boilers. The Government must level with the population: our apparent success in reducing emissions has come from relying on other nations to manufacture the goods that we use. If we measure our carbon footprint on the basis of our consumption, it has hardly changed. The scandal of the abandonment of the green homes grant was mentioned by many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Stunell. I urge the Government to give it another go, with redesigned policy and financial support.

This has been a very wide-ranging debate. A frequent theme was the notable omission of social care. My noble friend Lady Benjamin talked about the importance of young people and made the memorable statement that “childhood lasts a lifetime”. Very recently, my noble friend Lord Shipley, among others, concentrated on the need for decent affordable housing.

Many noble Lords have expressed serious concerns about the planning Bill: the noble Lord, Lord Kerslake, and my noble friends Lady Pinnock and Lady Thornhill. They all emphasised the danger of excluding local voices, and they made the point that there are 1 million homes for which planning permission has been given but which have not been built. The Government really must not let the building industry off the hook on this. My noble friend Lady Pinnock, among others, also referred to the cladding scandal, which the Government must deal with.

In conclusion, I spur the Government on. Social change does happen, underscored by legislation. They must act now to ensure that social change can make throw-away fashion and technology as socially unacceptable as drink-driving. I press the urgency of this. So far, all that we have done as a planet is to slow the rate of the increase of climate change. The concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere has kept on growing. I end by restating my noble friend Lord Oates’s reference to the words of Mahatma Gandhi: the future is decided by what you do today.

Non-Domestic Rating (Public Lavatories) Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Report stage & Lords Hansard
Wednesday 17th March 2021 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Randerson]

3: After Clause 2, insert the following new Clause—
“Review: impact of the Act on provision of public lavatories
(1) Within 12 months of this Act coming into force the Secretary of State must undertake and publish a review of its impact on the provision of public lavatories in England.(2) The review must make reference in particular to the impact of the Act on—(a) the number and distribution of public lavatories and whether this provision is adequate to meet the needs of communities,(b) the number of accessible toilets in England, including Changing Places toilets,(c) the cleanliness and maintenance of public lavatories, and(d) the provision of baby changing facilities.(3) The review must make a recommendation as to whether further measures should be introduced in order to address the requirements in subsection (2).(4) The Secretary of State must lay a report on the review before both Houses of Parliament.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would require the Secretary of State to publish a review of the impact of the Act on the provision of public lavatories in England, with particular focus on number and distribution, accessible toilets, cleanliness, and baby changing facilities.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in moving Amendment 3, to which I have added my name, I indicate my support for the other amendments in this group.

I thank the Minister for being so generous with his time. I also thank the British Toilet Association for attending the meeting with the Minister and providing advice that underlined the crisis that this country faces with public toilet provision. I believe that those of us with amendments today are, generally, not intending to impede the passage of this Bill. We support its modest aims, but it is far too modest to make any real difference, as is the price tag the Government have attached to it. The view of the British Toilet Association is that it will not create any more public toilets, but it may stem the tide of closures. If that is the case, it is, I suppose, a small success.

Amendment 3 is designed to encourage the Government to be much more ambitious. Already, there has been a consultation on some aspects of toilet provision, but too many government consultations seem to run into the sand, so this amendment requires a government review of the success of this legislation, looking specifically at aspects of public toilet provision that I hope we can all agree are modest social requirements for the 21st century.

The amendment specifically refers to accessible toilets; with an ageing population, we need many more of these. It also refers to baby changing facilities, which need to be clean and available to men as well as women. Modern fathers and grandfathers face a real challenge finding such facilities when out with young children. The amendment refers to cleanliness—the pandemic has emphasised the importance of this aspect. It refers specifically to communities: the Government must recognise and cater for the needs of a modern, diverse society. Indeed, the Minister is himself Minister for Communities. I know that, with his considerable experience of local government and distinguished record, the noble Lord will be very aware of the challenges and choices facing local authorities.

In Wales, where I live, a public health Bill put responsibility on local authorities to develop a strategy for the provision of public toilets: at last, there begins to be a longer-term view. Numbers count, and they dwindle all the time. Financially stretched councils often feel forced to cut funding to non-statutory services and, astonishingly, public toilets are a discretionary service. For example, both Birmingham and the City of London recently announced widespread closures of public toilets, and this comes at a time when we are less likely to be able to pop into a shop, pub or cafe to use their facilities.

In his opening speech at Second Reading, the Minister told us about government participation in the excellent community toilet scheme. The problem is that many such facilities are unlikely to reopen because the Covid lockdown has destroyed so many high streets and small businesses. Yet the availability of decent public toilets will be key to the revival of town centres after the pandemic.

We are talking about basic human rights and basic human needs; we are all experts on this topic. We do not intend to push this amendment to the vote today, but I appeal to the Minister to use this opportunity to build on the work that the Government are already doing and to commit to bringing a report and, I hope, more ambitious proposals to this House in the foreseeable future.

Amendment 4 (to Amendment 3)

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

Amendment 4 (to Amendment 3) withdrawn.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, this has been an excellent short debate and I thank all noble Lords who have participated. I note the cross-party support for the proposals here. I particularly thank the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, for reminding us that, while in this House we often speak of lofty ideals, in practice, out there on the streets of this country, it is the local facilities—the bus shelters, the bus timetables, the street lights and the public toilets—which make a world of difference to the quality of life of people who live here. And when those facilities are not good enough, they really complain. Many of those who have spoken in this debate have been or are councillors, and it is the councillors of this country who deal with these essential daily issues.

I particularly thank the Minister for his response. He provided some useful statistics to underline the need for the kind of report that the amendment suggests and outlined to us the details of the government review. I think the number of responses to it emphasises how important the issue is, and that there is clearly something wrong in the eyes of many people. I very much welcome the news about the government partnership with Muscular Dystrophy UK. I hope the Minister will think about this issue further and that, in due course, he will provide firmer details about future government action, because he clearly accepts that there is a need for action.

I particularly hope that the Minister will be able to address the issue that the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, raised about the ability of town and parish councils to apply for funding for changing places. There is really no logical reason why they should not be able to do so.

I hope my noble friend Lady Pinnock will be satisfied that she has had a long and very fruitful day speaking in this House. I thank her especially for being the lead signature to this amendment.

So although I am disappointed that the Minister did not give us a categorical assurance on the sorts of actions we all want, I am hopeful for the future. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 3 withdrawn.

Wales: Replacement Funding

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to working with the devolved Administrations. In fact, there have been 26 engagement events, attracting more than 500 representatives, all about the UK shared prosperity fund. Sixteen of those events took place in the devolved Administrations and I am sure Ministers will be meeting representatives of the devolved Administrations in due course.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, in 2019 the Conservative manifesto promised that the shared prosperity fund would, at a minimum, match the size of EU structural funds in each nation. In the last six years, Wales received £400 million a year in ESI funds. That is £123 per person on average. I ask the Minister again—to give him the opportunity to confirm today—to say that the Government will be keeping their promise to Wales and that this funding will be specifically identifiable over and above current UK sources of funding.

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, again, we need to see the publication of the investment framework but I can commit to saying that the overall envelope of funding will be at least the amount that we receive from EU structural funds of around £1.5 billion per year.

Non-Domestic Rating (Public Lavatories) Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

Wednesday 24th February 2021 Lords Chamber

There is some value in exploring an alternative, as the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, is doing with his Amendment 9. This would introduce a statutory rule that these public lavatories should be treated, in effect, as separate hereditaments, so long as they can be accessed from outside and therefore given a separate value. I do not know how many there are—perhaps not many, as the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, has suggested—and if so it may not take us very far, but some distance is worth travelling in the interests of addressing the problem through the Bill. As a lawyer, I cannot see any objection to this proposal. It is an adaptation of the ordinary rules, but if the law provides for it, it is a perfectly orthodox adaptation. I commend this as a very neat way of responding to a very real problem that needs to be addressed, and I am happy to give Amendment 9 my support.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of an informal campaign group which seeks to improve the standards of public toilets generally. I am pleased to speak in support of the amendments in this group, and I am grateful to the Minister for his response by letter to issues that I, among others, raised at Second Reading. However, I am sure that he will forgive me when I say that I found his arguments unconvincing.

I accept that to include facilities open to the public, but not as separate or distinct buildings, would mean a valuation exercise. In each local authority area this would involve numbers maybe in the dozens, not the hundreds. That really cannot be seen as a costly hurdle. The Minister believes that it would divert resources from the 2023 revaluation. It should simply be part of the revaluation. I also reject the idea that identifying the facilities concerned would be difficult. These are public facilities and public bodies would self-identify. I also recommend to the Minister the Great British Public Toilet Map, available online, and a number of apps which guide you to local public toilets.

As it stands, the Bill is of course sensible, but it is a paltry little measure and will certainly not bring the transformation needed. I am not sure how deeply the Government consulted local government representatives. The local authorities that I am familiar with ceased building stand-alone public conveniences decades ago because problems of anti-social behaviour are so much greater in isolated blocks. Nowadays, new sets of conveniences are mainly incorporated in other public buildings, where issues of safety for users, maintenance and cleanliness are more easily dealt with. Stand-alone blocks obviously still exist but are often old and are too often already closed and shuttered.

I also wish to test the definition of “publicly owned”. The definition is very blurred these days. Facilities can be publicly owned but privately run—for example, in many areas that is the case with leisure centres. My area has publicly available toilets in libraries and shopping centres. The shopping centres are commercial developments and commercially run, but the toilets are discrete units. They are not just toilets in shops; there are separate doors to them, but it is a commercial operation.

We also have public toilets in the Wales Millennium Centre in Cardiff—a large building at the centre of Cardiff tourism in the bay. It houses major musical events and a lot of youth and artistic activities. It runs free concerts and there are shops and cafes. There is free public access to the toilets. The Wales Millennium Centre is run by a trust, but that trust has been funded by major amounts of public money. I know that the noble Lord will say that that is in Wales and that there is a separate set of rules, but I use it as an example. Clearly, it would not qualify for this scheme, but why should it not? It provides the same facilities, with cleaning and maintenance, and the public are allowed to enter for a large number of hours each day of the week.

It is really not difficult to ascertain whether toilets are genuinely publicly available or available for a reasonable amount of time each day. The Minister told us that the Government are adopting the community toilet scheme, and similar types of rules can apply for rate relief.

My concern is not just that the Government’s scheme is not generous enough; it is also that it is not even-handed. Public toilets in buildings still have to be maintained and cleaned, so why should an accident of situation define whether this relief is granted? It could even discourage major new developments from incorporating what would be genuinely public toilets.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I draw the Committee’s attention to my interests as listed in the register: as a member of Kirklees Council and as a vice-president of the Local Government Association.

The amendments in the names of my noble friend Lord Greaves and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, to which I have added my name, challenge the scope of the Bill in its restriction to public toilets that are stand-alone and not part of a larger public building, such as a library or community centre. I thank the Minister for the opportunity to discuss these amendments and for the letter that he sent explaining the reasons for confining the scope of the Bill to stand-alone public toilets. However, we have to remember that one consequence of the long period of cuts to local government funding has been that many public toilets have been closed permanently. In my local authority, which serves nearly half a million people, there are now no stand-alone public toilets. The Bill is welcome but it is very much like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.

These amendments are intended to encourage the Government to appreciate the wider need to increase the availability of public toilets. There is already pressure for some public toilets in public buildings to be closed because of the costs associated with keeping them open, as they are not part of the focused purpose of the building. For example, a public library is having to use scarce funds to keep the public toilets in its building open when there is barely sufficient funding to staff the building. That is the dilemma facing local authorities, certainly in the northern urban areas that I know well.

My noble friend Lord Greaves’s points are well made. Local people regard public toilets within a public building as being the same as stand-alone public toilets. The challenge is explained in the letter that I referred to earlier—the volume of work it would impose on the valuation office—but my noble friend Lord Greaves’s amendment seeks to find a way round this for public toilets that have separate access. I hope that the Minister is able to respond positively to that amendment.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, is an expert on these matters. He has said that valuation for rating is not just about facts and figures. One example that he provided was the relief given to charities. The Government would do well to take heed of the arguments that the noble and learned Lord made, and that view has been well supported by my noble friend Lady Randerson. As well as making those arguments and supporting my noble friend Lord Greaves’s view, she argued that improved public toilets are more secure and can be more easily kept clean if they are within a public building, rather than being stand-alone.

The Government have a responsibility to ensure adequate availability of publicly funded public toilets. It is a responsibility that has been accepted since the days of the great Victorian public heath reformers. The Bill demonstrates that the Government continue to accept that they have that responsibility. It is not sufficient, in fulfilling this obligation, to make those public toilets that have survived the cull zero rated. The Government must provide the means for local government to increase availability to meet local need. That is what these amendments seek to do and I wholeheartedly support them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Andrews (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Thomas of Winchester, and to support what she said. I am speaking in support of Amendment 11 and particularly to Amendment 13. I am conscious that the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, is not able to be in her place today, because we all know what a superb advocate she is for all these matters. I am happy to support these amendments, because they are significant.

Amendment 13 makes clear what everybody who supports the Bill already knows: that we want to ensure that it works; that it is seen to be working; and that the evidence is collected and available for us to see. There is a matter of principle here: that public policy changes should be seen to be effective, especially when public money is involved; that when local funds are dedicated to a particular purpose, they are used for that purpose; and that there is transparency and agency in local and national government.

There is also a practical issue here. As the noble Lord, Lord Greaves, said, we have waited a long time for practical and universal initiatives to be taken to stop the closure of public lavatories and to place them in their proper context, which is within a robust and vigilant policy for local health and safety, rather than in some afterthought where no one is really interested in what happens to them.

As I said on Second Reading, the Bill is very welcome, but it would be a major disappointment if the funding that is going to be generated is not used for that purpose. We have to know the impact of the Bill, that it works and that it has achieved its purpose, and we need the evidence to be published. As other noble Lords have said, it is all the more crucial that we know this, because the measures will be introduced at a time when local authorities have never been more strapped, and it has never been more difficult to decide on priorities. We need to know that this small change will take its place in the range of priorities.

Local government needs financial and political investment to repair the damage and help to rebuild communities. I think that the Bill is part of that and part of the fabric of our whole public health and preventive health system, for the personal reasons that many noble Lords have raised today, and as part of a series of principles. I support these amendments and look forward to the Minister’s response. I cannot see any possible reason for rejecting them and I hope I am right in that respect.

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, all the amendments in this group are designed to ensure that the Bill is not the end of the matter, and that the Government are forced to confront the appalling and declining state of public conveniences in Britain. The Bill will not start to tackle the many problems. The Explanatory Memorandum tells us that it will involve redistributing £6 million back to local authorities in England. There are 343 local authorities in England—of course, I realise that there is some double counting because of two-tier areas—but this number does not include parish councils. There are 9,000 of those, many of which go on to take responsibility for public toilets. The Committee can immediately see from those figures that £6 million will not go far; it will be swallowed up in the general budget of local authorities, which are chronically short of cash.

Non-Domestic Rating (Lists) (No. 2) Bill

Baroness Randerson Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 18th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I wish to concentrate solely on the Non-Domestic Rating (Public Lavatories) Bill and, in doing so, express my regret that these two Bills have been harnessed together. They may sound similar, but their impact is very different. I declare an interest as a member of an, as yet, informal campaign group trying to improve the quality of public toilets through the introduction of a toilet hygiene rating scheme.

I will start with a quote:

“The main results from the enquiry are 1) the quite inadequate free provision for women. This is perhaps the most outstanding defect at present existing in London in relation to this important matter.”


The inquiry referred to was undertaken in 1928 by the London County Council. This inequality was made worse by the Public Health Act 1936, which allowed providers of public toilets to charge women but not men for using facilities. That particular injustice stopped in 2008, but the inequalities in provision for women continue. Indeed, official advice from the Health and Safety Executive on workplace toilets still embodies this discrimination, setting in print a recommendation for a ratio of male to female facilities which greatly favours men.

It is a biological fact that it takes a woman approximately twice as long to use a toilet as a man. In addition, an average woman has approximately 480 periods in her lifetime, each lasting three to seven days. Some 14 million people in the UK are estimated to have some kind of bladder dysfunction. Women are more prone to this than men, because of the impact of childbirth. I share with very many women a lifelong sense of injustice that we are continually disadvantaged in this way. When did you ever see a queue outside the gents’ toilets? Modern changes of attitude recognise the argument for gender-neutral facilities, but sadly these are sometimes being provided only with the loss of facilities for women. Women from some faith and cultural backgrounds find it simply impossible to share facilities with men.

Of course, this is not the only shortcoming in our public toilets. There are still far too few changing places toilets, as my noble friend Lady Thomas referred to, with both the space and the high standard of hygiene required for severely disabled people and their carers. There are too few well-appointed toilets for disabled people generally. I also want to make a complaint on behalf of fathers. Far too many sets of public conveniences assume that all childcare is done by women, so baby-changing facilities are in the women’s toilets. Men on their own with children often face an impossible dilemma on where to change their child’s nappy.

I have campaigned on these issues since the 1980s and clearly I have failed, because the number of public toilets has dwindled. When the public complain that their cleanliness and condition are poor, local authorities facing financial problems find that the easy solution—the only solution—is to shut them down.

The Covid crisis has heightened awareness of these issues. First, we all became aware of the need for the highest standards of cleanliness. Combined with pressures on staffing, this posed a dilemma for local authorities, which too often simply shut them up completely. Over the years, as the number of council-run facilities has dwindled, we have increasingly relied on toilets in shops, pubs and cafés, but these have been shut for large parts of the last year. This led to some pretty horrifying situations, which hit the headlines when the Prime Minister suddenly decreed that we could all drive as far as we wanted for our exercise. It was midsummer and the weather was lovely. Hundreds of thousands of people set off for the coast without considering whether there were toilets for them to use during their day out. That incident revealed that good, clean public toilets are an important part of our tourist industry.

This legislation is obviously a good, sensible provision, and I support it, but it is not going to solve any of the problems I have outlined. I note that the estimated cost will be £6 million in England and £450,000 in Wales, which will hardly make up the financial deficit which has reduced the availability of good public toilets over the years. The Minister outlined other initiatives that the Government are taking to improve public toilet provision. We clearly need many more of them. The community toilet scheme that he mentioned started in Wales well over a decade ago, so it is good to see England catching up with this excellent initiative. It is now time for stricter requirements and standards. I note that the provisions of the Bill will not apply to toilets which are part of a larger unit; for example, in a public library. Why not, if they are open for public use? My local public library has the only public toilets for at least a mile and a half in all directions. That restriction seems unnecessary.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

Can the noble Baroness bring her comments to a close shortly please?

[Baroness Randerson (LD) [V]]

It is definitely not in the spirit of the Minister’s speech, which emphasised how imaginative the Government have been in approaching this issue.