Combined Sewer Overflows

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I know the noble Baroness well enough to know that she does not really believe that. We sat through hours and hours of debate on the Environment Act, the Agriculture Act and the Fisheries Act. She knows that this Government have done more to protect the environment and deal with the unacceptable problem, which has existed for centuries, of sewage going into our rivers. She knows that we are investing in monitoring. The previous Government did not have a clue: they knew of 7% of sewage outflows. I started that change in 2012, and we now know of 91%; by the end of this year, we will know of 100%. That light of transparency is helping resolve this problem.

We have a record investment programme of £56 billion to deal with the problem. We have tougher regulation: there was a debate on nutrients yesterday and a debate in the Grand Committee on increasing penalties for breaches of rules from £250,000, where they are capped, to unlimited amounts. That is an example of tougher regulation that we are bringing in. At the moment, we have the largest ever criminal investigation by the Environment Agency into this matter, and we have a very serious civil investigation by the regulator Ofwat. We are absolutely committed to dealing with this, and we are doing more than any other Government have done previously.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I will focus on the positive going forward, which is that the water companies are going to find the money to tackle combined sewer overflows. Is my noble friend confident that the level of expenditure can be found in the context of the current price review, which becomes effective on 1 January 2024? Also, does he not think that it is grossly unfair on water companies to be expected to connect to inadequate Victorian pipes that cannot take the effluent coming from these new housing developments? They are being forced to because of the current legislation.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend knows that there is a major investment in infrastructure, the largest ever, which is seeing many of those thousands of miles of Victorian pipes being replaced by modern ones. It is absolutely vital that any developments take into account the sewage infrastructure. That is why we are insisting on the entire impact of those, and any, developments being reflected in investment, and why we are front-loading a lot of the expenditure. We are requiring water companies to do a lot, but that is what their customers and the people of this country want. We have the right system by which to make that happen, and we want to encourage that expenditure to happen as quickly as possible.

Dangerous Dogs Act 1991: New Breeds

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to amend the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 to add new breeds, in view of recent attacks.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and refer to my interests on the register, including the fact that I am an honorary associate of the British Veterinary Association.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, we take dog attacks very seriously and are making sure that the full force of the law is applied. This ranges from lower-level interventions to more serious offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act. The Government have commissioned urgent advice on what steps they can take on dangerous dogs. As a critical first step, we are immediately convening police experts and other stakeholders to define the breed for the purposes of the Dangerous Dogs Act.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer but it is clear that the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 is not working as it was intended. Dog attacks are on the increase, the public are feeling threatened and the Act is putting huge pressure on veterinary professionals and animal welfare charities. Can I urge my noble friend to use his good offices to take this opportunity to have a complete overhaul of the Act; to focus not on the breed but the deed; and to look increasingly at anti-social and aggressive behaviour on the part of dog owners, which should not be tolerated?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Every single one of these attacks is a tragedy. So often, they happen in the home, and some of the people involved really should not be in charge of a dog. We are concerned about the breed that people are concerned about now, XL Bullies, because we see from the available data we have that they are disproportionately involved in serious dog attacks. There is a divergence of opinion on this. My noble friend mentions organisations that campaign on this and are unhappy about the breed-specific nature of it. They have one view; another view is that none of the fatal attacks that have taken place in recent years were carried out by a prohibited breed that was registered under the Act. We want to get this right. That is why we are talking to everyone, including the police, vets and campaign groups. We want to make sure that we are keeping people safe.

Orphan Sites: Hazardous Waste

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 4th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord. I know he has raised this in both Houses in relation to an area that he used to represent. We have a system in place where orphan sites are transferred to the Crown Estate, which finds a new beneficial owner, and from which the vast majority then get contaminant clearance. Working with local authorities, it has been successful, but I will work with the noble Lord to try to find the best possible system that works in most cases.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend about a different type of hazardous waste; namely, fly-tipping on private land, which is the scourge of the countryside? Can he update the House on any government policy and on what the Environment Agency and local authorities can do against this dreadful rural crime?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, I once asked the then president of the Campaign to Protect Rural England what he thought the Government should do about fly- tipping and littering, and he said a shoot-to-kill policy. I think he was joking, but at times, I am sort of with him in spirit. The Government have provided more funds, increased the fines for fly-tipping and increased the ability of local authorities and the police to, for example, fine people for littering from a vehicle and to accept dashcam evidence. We are serious about trying to prevent this scourge. There is an organisation which now brings different groups of people together to assist landowners, who bear the brunt of fly-tipping, to minimise the chances of fly-tipping taking place in hotspots, but also provides them, through the local authority, with funding that will catch the criminals and take them to justice.

Domestic Animals: Welfare

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, the Government keep abreast of issues in breeding dogs through our engagements with the sector, including with the UK Brachycephalic Working Group. The Government prohibited the licensed breeding of dogs where their genetic traits, physical characteristics or health could reasonably be expected to result in health or welfare problems for the mother or puppies. Additionally, we raise awareness of issues associated with low-welfare supply of pets through our Petfished campaign.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend the Minister is aware, the Covid pandemic led to a lot of people buying dogs for company and exercise. Since this time, many of these dogs have been rehomed, putting increased pressure on the dog charities. There also seems to be an alarming increase in puppies being born but not housed. Is there something the Government can do to keep an eye on this and help the charities involved?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The dog charities are doing wonderful work on this. I particularly praise the Dogs Trust, having recently visited one of its rehoming units. There is a serious issue around people being encouraged to spend enormous amounts of money to import pets from countries such as Romania, with a heart-rending story involving the welfare of a dog from there. But we have a large number of dogs that need to be rehomed here, through a process that is properly managed by really good charities, such as the Dogs Trust. I urge people to take that path, rather than spending hundreds of pounds on what is becoming an industry. While some people are doing it well, some are not. I encourage people to go through a registered charity and home UK stray dogs that need rehoming as a priority.

Live Animals: Export Ban

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

One of the items in the kept animals Bill, on the keeping of primates as pets, is a good example of something we can deliver more quickly than we could in an all-encompassing Bill, and we are going to do that through secondary legislation. We are in consultation with a number of people who will bring forward items through Private Members’ Bills, with the Government’s support. We want to get all of them on the statute book, but I hope that the noble Baroness, like me, is proud of what this Government are doing for animal welfare.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend give the House an assurance this afternoon that the ban is reciprocal and that we will not be importing live animals from the EU for slaughter and fattening in this country?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

There has never been a significant import trade for slaughter or fattening. For example, from 2019 to 2021, only 91 cattle and 14 sheep were imported for slaughter from the mainland EU. A key concern of many of those who opposed live exports was that once they are exported to the EU, we do not know where they are going. We can now make sure that, through the actions of the Animal and Plant Health Agency, we are keeping track of everything, so we want to make sure this ban is in place as soon as possible.

European Union: Trade Barriers

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 4th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I hate to disagree with the noble Lord but the total value of imports of food, feed and drink from the EU in the three months to April 2023 was £10.6 billion, 11% higher than the three months to April 2022 and 34% higher than the three months to April 2018. Over that period, exports increased from £3.5 billion and were 4% higher than last year and 6% higher than the year before that. We are trying to introduce a system that is fair to importers and exporters and that protects our very important biosecurity.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend update the House on progress towards a sound and sustainable SPS system?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We are making great progress. I can assure my noble friend that we are on the point of publishing more details on a system being brought in from October this year whereby products of animal origin will require an export health certificate. From January, they will be checked at border control points we have constructed. We are minimising the burden on business through risk categorisation, a trusted trader system and simplifying and digitising our network.

Water Industry: Financial Resilience

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 4th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We think that the model that operates at the moment is the right one. We have seen more investment, but if the Government took back control, that would, in effect, put the onus back on the taxpayer. That would mean that I or the Secretary of State would have to get in the queue behind the health service, pensions, and all other areas of government spending to get the right levels of capital investment we need in the water industry.

We think that the £56 billion can be afforded at a relatively modest increase of around £12 per household. For roughly £1.20 a day, households receive the water they need and sewage and dirty water are removed from their homes, and there has been a massive increase in spending on the infrastructure we need, some of which is still in need of changes. Through this model, we have delivered a better outcome for the consumer and for the taxpayer. We have concerns, and I share the noble Baroness’s concerns, certainly about the issues relating to Thames Water and one or two other companies. Ofwat has been proactive in trying to resolve the concerns with those companies, and we are watching the situation very closely.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chair of the APPG on Water. My noble friend will recall that alarm bells rang some years ago when a number of water companies were based offshore in places such as the Cayman Islands, which seems singularly inappropriate. I congratulate my noble friend on putting in the statutory and legal effect that dividends and bonuses must now be linked to environmental performance. Does he imagine that that will have an immediate effect or will it take some weeks and years before it comes into force?

Farm Animal Welfare

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 26th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The noble Baroness is right that the power to improve animal welfare lies in large measure with the consumer, and keeping the consumer informed is a key part of this. Therefore, in answer to her question, we received over 1,600 responses to the consultation, a summary of which is available on GOV.UK. Based on the evidence provided, the Government are continuing to explore options for improving and expanding mandatory animal welfare labelling, covering both domestic and imported products, and we will keep the House informed of our progress.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, while I applaud the high standards that farming communities and the Government have achieved on farmed animals in this country, does my noble friend regret the fact that we have not extended the same high standards to imports, particularly those from Australia and New Zealand through the free trade agreements? Will he give the House a commitment today that future trade agreements will insist on the same animal welfare and environmental standards for imports as are applied in this country?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Imports into the UK must comply with our existing import requirements. Products produced to different environmental and animal welfare standards can be placed on the UK market if they comply with these requirements. We are taking a tailored approach in each of our new free trade agreements. For example, pork, poultry and eggs were excluded from our agreement with Australia, and in our agreements with Australia and New Zealand, we secured non-regression and non-derogation clauses on animal welfare. This will be a feature of future agreements.

REACH (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, this statutory instrument was laid before this House on 20 April 2023 and makes technical amendments to UK REACH. UK REACH is the retained version of EU REACH and is one of the key pieces of legislation that regulates the use of chemicals in Great Britain. This instrument is being made pursuant to powers in the Environment Act 2021. In accordance with the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, UK REACH maintains the core approach and key principles of the EU REACH regulation. Its primary objectives remain focused on safeguarding a high level of protection of human health and the environment.

This SI introduces two changes. I should make it clear from the outset that the changes do not affect the key principles of UK REACH. The first change this SI introduces is that it amends Article 127P(4B) of UK REACH. This provides an additional three years for businesses to submit technical information on the hazards and risks of their substances to the Health and Safety Executive. This extension applies to all grandfathered registrations and chemicals being imported from the EU under the transitional arrangements. Industry will now be required to submit technical information on the hazards and risks of substances that it manufactures or imports by 27 October 2026, 27 October 2028 and 27 October 2030, depending on the tonnage and toxicity. These dates are changes from 27 October 2023, 27 October 2025 and 27 October 2027 respectively.

This SI supports the work that we announced in December to explore an alternative transitional registration model for UK REACH in order to address the significant potential cost, estimated at between £1.3 billion and £3.5 billion, of obtaining or accessing the full hazard information required to meet UK REACH registration requirements. Work on the alternative transitional registration model is ongoing. In response to concerns about the potential costs, we are currently engaging with stakeholders, including NGOs, to develop an alternative transitional registration model for UK REACH that will help reduce the costs associated with obtaining hazard information, including from expensive EU REACH data packages, while still ensuring that industry remains responsible for the safe use of chemicals throughout the supply chain.

The model also aims to place more emphasis on improving our understanding of the uses and exposures of chemicals in the GB context, which will enable better targeting of regulatory actions. Extending the deadlines will provide certainty to industry so that it can avoid making unnecessary investments towards obtaining information for the existing registration model when that information may no longer be necessary under an alternative model.

I now turn to the second change that this SI introduces. It moves the timelines for HSE to complete its compliance checks to ensure that the information submitted by industry is of sufficient quality. These timelines have been moved in order to align them with the extended submission deadlines. We need to move the dates for these regulatory checks because the current deadlines for compliance checking, as set down in Article 41(5) of UK REACH, would otherwise fall before the amended dates for submitting the relevant information. HSE will now have to complete its compliance checks by 27 October 2027, 27 October 2030 and 27 October 2035, corresponding to the three extended submission deadlines.

This is the first time we have prepared an SI using the powers to amend REACH set out in Schedule 21 to the Environment Act 2021. We have followed all the safeguards we attached to those powers: we received consent from the devolved Administrations of Wales and Scotland; we consulted widely with our stakeholders on our plans to extend the submission deadlines; and we published a consistency statement alongside the consultation, as required by the 2021 Act. This provides the Committee with the necessary assurance that extending the submission deadlines is consistent with Article 1 of UK REACH.

Our assessment, as outlined in the consistency statement, demonstrates that the UK REACH regime will still be able to ensure a high level of protection for human health and the environment for three main reasons. The first is the information and knowledge on chemicals registered under EU REACH available to both the Health and Safety Executive and Great Britain registrants. Secondly, importers from the EU will continue to receive EU REACH-compliant safety data sheets from their EU suppliers, which will enable them to identify and apply appropriate risk management measures. Thirdly, the Health and Safety Executive has the ability to seek risk management data from other sources, if necessary, as it did when acting as a competent authority under EU REACH. This could include calls for evidence or using data from EU REACH and other relevant sources that can provide Great Britain-specific hazard and exposure information.

Alongside the public consultation, we also published a full impact assessment on extending the deadlines. The impact assessment was awarded a green “fit for purpose” rating by the Regulatory Policy Committee. The territorial extent of this instrument is the United Kingdom. The devolved Administrations were engaged in the development of this instrument and are content. The Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments did not report any concerns with this statutory instrument.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee raised four main concerns in relation to this SI and the ATR more generally, including whether the implementation deadline of 2024 is achievable; concern from stakeholders about weakening protections for human health and the environment; and concerns about the HSE’s regulatory function and the impact of the REUL Bill. As I have already commented, we are confident that UK REACH will still be able to ensure a high level of protection of human health and the environment. I will take the other concerns in turn.

In relation to the timeline for delivery of the ATR, this is a complex project. It is right that we take the appropriate time to develop the policy and test it with stakeholders. We are extending the transitional registration deadlines to ensure that we have a reasonable amount of time to do that. The earliest we can formally consult is the end of 2023, introducing legislation in 2024, and this remains our aim. The timetable is driven by both the technical and the sequential nature of the work. We are just coming to the end of an evidence-gathering project, including detailed interviews with companies including SMEs. Together with the new deadlines, this draft SI will give industry the time it needs to adapt to the new arrangements.

In relation to the HSE’s regulatory capacity, I am pleased to say that it continues to increase its capacity to take on new regulatory obligations. The HSE’s Chemicals Regulation Division increased by 46% between September 2020 and March 2022, and it has continued to build capacity over the last year. By 2025 the number of HSE staff working on UK REACH delivery is expected to grow to at least 50.

Finally, regarding the committee’s concerns about the impact of sunset provisions in the REUL Bill on this SI, I confirm that REACH was not on Defra’s list of retained EU law that it intends to remove from the statute book from 31 December 2023 following the retained EU law Bill becoming law.

I am confident that the provisions in these regulations mean that we will continue to ensure the highest levels of protection for human health and the environment, based on robust evidence and strong scientific analysis. At the same time, we are taking the necessary steps to provide industry with the legal certainty it needs to operate and to preserve the supply chains for the chemicals we depend on. For these reasons, I beg to move.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to my noble friend for the opportunity to debate the regulations, which I broadly support, and to share with him some concerns that have been raised—in particular, by industry.

I start with the last bit of what my noble friend said about the REUL Bill: that this is not currently on the Defra list of retained EU law that might be changed. Can he give us, and therefore industry, an absolute commitment that in the next two to three years there will be no attempt by Defra to amend or revoke this? When the REUL Bill, which is now in the other place, went through its initial stages, we learned that Defra has absolute power to review, amend and revoke any piece of primary or secondary legislation—I forget all the nomenclatures—on the statute book. We as a Committee, a Parliament and a House do not have the right to review that, so it would be fair to business to know that it is not within the sight, mind or intention of the department to amend or revoke within the next two to three years.

On 24 May my noble friend was kind enough to reply to a Question I tabled on REACH and maintaining compliance with the EU REACH programme. He repeated today that, as we speak, we do not know what the total cost of the statutory instruments and the measures therein will be. In his Answer my noble friend said that it will be £2 billion over six years, but he and the Committee will understand that it is not very helpful to those preparing—the NGOs and particularly the chemical firms involved—that the Government do not have an idea. He concludes by saying:

“Although values of chemical exports are increasing, this is not generally reflected in volume, suggesting that inflationary pressures are contributing to the figures”.


I do not expect my noble friend to be able to reply this afternoon, but I understand that the cost of paint went up hugely after the UK left the European Union and I wonder whether that is partly because of the instrument before us this afternoon and the fact that those who wish to export still comply with EU REACH and are now having to comply with UK REACH, albeit with the slight delay.

The UK chemical sector, represented by the Chemical Industries Association, was kind enough to brief me for this afternoon, and I will share with my noble friend and the Committee its concerns. It

“would like to stress the importance of urgently providing legal certainty to businesses. The current level of uncertainty around future registration requirements, expected timelines and related costs is currently not encouraging new market opportunities. While the proposal to extend the deadlines is much welcomed by industry, clarity on the viability of the future registration model will also be needed very shortly to allow sufficient time for appropriate legislation to be developed and for authorities and industry to implement it”.

When will the future registration model be available?

As regards the concerns raised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, I share its concern that the potential date of late 2024 is not achievable, because my understanding is that the Government are looking at a completely new design for UK REACH, including all the things that businesses are expected to do. Again, I ask my noble friend to put our minds at rest. If it is a whole new design, how, hand on heart, can he explain that the department will be in a position to complete it?

The CIA is also concerned that:

“In considering a different approach to registration, it will be essential to avoid a situation where compliance costs are simply shifted rather than reduced, for example from buying access to data under the current system to new administrative costs due to the work needed to generate a dossier under the new model”.


Therefore, I am sure my noble friend would accept that there is considerable uncertainty as to whether the registration costs can be minimised and that the industry needs to know a workable alternative registration model. The CIA is

“of the view that an effective UK REACH regime could be achieved even without requiring a full resubmission of dossiers for all substances already registered under EU REACH”.

I could go on—my noble friend the Minister is aware that I have tracked this issue for some considerable time—but I share the ongoing concerns raised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. I thank it for providing its report in time for us to consider it this afternoon. My main concerns are that 2024 is not achievable and that the REUL Bill gives my noble friend and his department complete power in this field to revoke or amend this without any consultation of businesses or real scrutiny in this place.

With those few remarks, I look forward to hearing my noble friend the Minister’s response.

Animal Welfare (Electronic Collars) (England) Regulations 2023

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Grand Committee

I suggest that there is no scientific evidence because research has not been carried out. This is well-meaning legislation but it is ill thought through and will lead to more animals, specifically sheep, being killed and more dogs being put down prematurely.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I support the remarks of my noble friends who spoke about the use of collars in livestock, but I will ask my noble friend the Minister a brief question. Why has the department provided an exemption for the use of e-collars by the Armed Forces? What was the basis for that? It would be helpful and interesting to have sight of the internal animal welfare standards and permissions of the Armed Forces if they are available.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to the SI. He will be pleased to know that I am happy with it and have only a couple of points to make.

In contrast to the previous SI, this one seeks to protect animals from harm and amends the Animal Welfare Act 2006. Once implemented, it will ban the use of handheld devices and prohibit the use of electric shock collars. Anyone found guilty of using a handheld device will be subject to unlimited fines. This is quite clearly a good thing.

Defra conducted a public consultation in 2018. Most respondents supported a ban on all types of electronic training collar but some were in favour of retaining the ability to use them provided they did not deliver an electric shock. Animals quickly learn from these devices and they are useful in keeping animals safe near busy roads by keeping them contained in a restricted area. There is also an opportunity for their use in preventing dogs escaping and chasing livestock, as we have heard. Sheep worrying is a very serious matter—