Rural Poverty

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I do not recognise that young people are being missed out of the levelling-up agenda. We have to recognise that, in terms of capital investment in infrastructure including transport, this is the largest commitment that we have seen for a considerable period of time. Specifically, the levelling-up fund will look at improving transport connectivity as part of the way that the fund has been designed.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

Will my noble friend join me in congratulating the North Yorkshire Rural Commission on its excellent work? Will he and the Government address the issue of those aspects of rural poverty for those in work on zero-hours contracts who are struggling to make ends meet and have to rely on food banks to eat and on benefits to heat their homes?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her insight into the local challenges faced by rural areas. That is very helpful as we consider our approach to targeting the upcoming UK shared prosperity fund. That fund will help to level up and create opportunity right across the United Kingdom in places most in need and for people who face labour market barriers. We will set out more detail, as I have mentioned before, in the upcoming spending review.

Building a Co-operative Union (Common Frameworks Scrutiny Committee Report)

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Wednesday 13th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I want to follow my noble and learned friend and add my congratulations most warmly to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, the rest of the committee and her staff team for what has been an excellent report. I feel that I am here as an interloper. I am a non-practising member of the Faculty of Advocates, have followed common frameworks closely and, indeed, matters relating to Defra over the past few years. I should like to limit my remarks to two specific points.

I applaud common frameworks as a success story in intergovernmental relations to which the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, referred. I welcome the fact that common frameworks exist where necessary for, among other reasons, ensuring the proper functioning of the United Kingdom’s internal market. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, alluded to, I acknowledge that increasing tensions and policy divergence have been appearing, particularly through the operation of the internal market Act, the Trade Act, the Agriculture Act and, most recently—as a number of us have been advised by the Law Society of Scotland—the passage of the Environment Bill.

Briefly, without going into too much detail—the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, may reflect on this in his remarks when summing up the debate from his perspective—Amendment 80 was passed by the House to Clause 20 of the Environment Bill relating in particular to provisions on forest risk commodities and environmental principles. To cut a long story short—I am sure that I could spend all afternoon talking about this because it is technical—I understand that legislative consent has not been granted by the Scottish Parliament to the Bill as amended in Committee. While congratulating my noble friend the Minister on his new responsibilities, I invite him to use his good offices in his new role to liaise and work as closely as he can with the Minister for the Environment, our noble friend Lord Goldsmith, to find a resolution to this situation before that Bill is concluded.

I also add my congratulations to my noble friend Lord Dunlop on the excellent work in his report. It is a great tribute to him that the common frameworks and the work of the committee will build on the conclusions that he has drawn. That will also be a testament to the work of the department regarding the extent to which the union holds strong as we proceed over the coming months, particularly given the ongoing tensions on the Northern Ireland protocol, as discussed earlier in the Chamber.

The only other comment I wish to make, as my noble and learned friend highlighted, is that Defra has 14 of the common frameworks as itemised under the Bill, yet only one has a provisional framework. I note that the others have no document whatever. Having represented a rural part of north Yorkshire which is not a million miles from the Scottish border, I know that tensions will be mounting—the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, will follow this closely from the Northern Ireland perspective. If payments are to be made which could have a competitive impact on farming operations between different parts of the union, that bodes very badly indeed. Will my noble friend investigate why there has been such little progress in these very important common frameworks that relate to the work of Defra? Can he give us an idea of the timeframe? If he cannot, will he pursue this with our noble friend Lord Goldsmith, who I am sure will be able to report to him?

It is extremely important that common frameworks are seen to work as effectively as they were meant to do. I conclude by saying what a role the committee has in holding the Government’s feet to the fire and making sure that all four nations of the union can proceed on an equal basis going forward—there might be divergences of policy, but these should be kept, at best, to the absolute minimum wherever possible.

Net-Zero Emissions: Planning and Building Regulations

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My Lords, I point to the considerable progress we have made in cutting carbon emissions while building more homes. We have a plan to further reduce that. Our work on a full technical specification for the future homes standard has been accelerated, and we will consult on it in 2023. This year, we are introducing an interim uplift in Part L standards that will deliver a meaningful reduction in carbon emissions. This is the stepping stone to ensure that our future homes reduce their carbon footprint and we hit our targets.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, the water companies are committed to achieving net zero by 2030. To be able to do so, they need the tools to do the job. In ending the automatic right to connect, it is essential that sufficient sustainable drains are built. Will my noble friend ensure that the Government adopt the necessary building regulations to facilitate this?

[Lord Greenhalgh (Con)]

My noble friend is an inveterate champion of sustainable urban drainage, which is far better than the use of grey infrastructure. Of course, we will reflect the desire to see sustainable planning and urban drainage solutions where practicable.

Business and Planning Act 2020 (Pavement Licences) (Coronavirus) (Amendment) Regulations 2021

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 8th July 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I welcome the regulations and this opportunity to debate them. I declare my interests as set out in the register, as chair of the Proof of Age Standards Scheme board, and having chaired the House’s ad hoc committee reviewing the Licensing Act 2003. I echo some of the concerns expressed by the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and am very grateful to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association briefing that he shared with me today. I absolutely share the concern expressed by my noble friend the Minister about the hit that the hospitality industry has taken, which is very well set out in paragraph 7.7 of the Explanatory Memorandum, with £8.2 billion of trade having been wiped out, the decrease in turnover which he referred to, and the reported 2,000 pubs estimated to have closed down forever.

However, I hope that my noble friend the Minister will give me—and, more importantly, the vulnerable users of pavements—an assurance this afternoon as we extend the licensing provisions in the regulations before us today. Specifically, if we are allowing only 10 days before a licence application, which I accept is a new application this time, will be agreed, what consultation will there be for particularly vulnerable pavement users in this regard? Will he put my mind at rest that it is not an issue of licence by default? There is a concern, which I hope he will address this afternoon, that there is no time for consultation in a 10-day period. Will he confirm that the original timeframe of 28 days will be reverted to when the regulations cease to have effect?

Can the Minister give me an assurance that local authorities will have regard to the Equality Act provisions and similar provisions in the issuing of licences under the regulations? I am concerned that there is no right of appeal, and I would like to understand whether, in the rush to grant the licence—and I do not know whether he has any evidence of this under the present licence system—if it was felt that street furniture was put in an inappropriate or hazardous place, that could be reviewed and the local authorities have the power to go and inspect that. I am asking for balance in the way in which the licences are issued between the rights of the pub or business to ply its trade, which we are all in support of, and the rights of more vulnerable users—visually impaired and others—to go about enjoying the pavements in the normal way.

Flood Plains: Housing Development

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Thursday 24th June 2021 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of building major new housing developments on functional flood plains in the context of climate change; and whether they intend to amend planning law accordingly.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to have secured this debate, which is very timely given the Environment Bill currently before the House and the planning Bill due imminently. I look forward to all contributions from noble Lords, not least my noble friend the Minister who will respond from the Front Bench. I am very aware that these issues relate to dual responsibility, not just to the Ministry of Housing but to Defra. My noble friend will be as aware as I am of the impact that floods have had across North Yorkshire and the whole region on many occasions. I refer to my interests in the register and note that I am co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Water Group and vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities.

The Library prepared a note today setting out why this is such an issue. Some 5.2 million properties are at risk of flooding, and there is a fear that that may double. The definition of a functional flood plain is

“land which would naturally flood with an annual probability of 1 in 20 or greater, or land that is designed to flood in an extreme flood.”

The Environment Agency has stated that

“as of 31 March 2019, 121,000 residential properties were in areas at high-risk of flooding from rivers and the sea, and 458,000 were in medium-risk areas. 239,000 residential properties were in areas at risk of flooding from surface water, with a further 395,000 at medium-risk.”

I have been campaigning on these issues for a number of years. They include such issues as ending the automatic right to connect water supply to major new developments, building more appropriate housing, ending the practice of building on functional flood plains, using more natural flood defences such as the Slowing the Flow at Pickering pilot project—which is a brilliant example of land use management in the interests of protecting communities downstream from flooding—and using SUDS and other sustainable drainage to prevent sewage spills into existing developments. Implementing other conclusions from the Pitt review of 2007 and giving water companies the status of statutory consultees on planning applications for major new housing developments would also help. There is a role for building regulations to make houses more resilient to floods and ending the combined sewer overflows.

The floods of 2007 brought substantial damage to Pickering and other parts of North Yorkshire, and the new phenomenon of surface water flooding. It is not generally understood that it is impossible to obtain insurance for houses built after 2009. Developers are meant to build houses that are not subject to flooding; if the houses then flood, the householders are ineligible for insurance. I hope that my noble friend will commit to keeping this under review and holding the developers to account.

I hope that my noble friend can also explain the obsession with building executive-style housing of three, four and five-bedroom houses, when there is an obvious need for starter homes of one or two bedrooms, which are equally in demand for those starting a career or employment and those facing retirement. I am thinking in particular of the farmers who will be invited to take retirement through the environmental land management schemes in the Agriculture Act; there is nowhere for them to go. This is an acute problem for tenant farmers and the whole rental and owner-occupier market.

Will my noble friend undertake to liaise with the Minister at Defra as regards catchment management control as the best way of tackling flood management and identifying areas prone to flooding? There are many bodies with a role to play; I am looking at the drainage boards, local authorities, farmers, landowners, district councils and others. I pay tribute to the work of drainage boards in this regard in low-lying rural areas and welcome the fact that the Environment Bill looks to create new ones and permit possible future expansion of internal drainage boards where appropriate.

I would like to highlight the importance of regular maintenance and routine management of river systems across a catchment and the damage caused where none is done. I make a plea to my noble friend and his counterparts in Defra for increased revenue spending to bolster resources with the use of properly skilled, experienced engineers. This would keep rivers, surface water systems, gullies, SUDS, insulation flows, and so on, clear of debris and would reduce the flood risk.

The environmental land management schemes have a role to play under the provisions of the Agriculture Act in rewarding farmers for public good, of which flood prevention and flood alleviation will be crucial: for example, by storing water temporarily to prevent communities downstream from flooding. However, as my noble friend may be aware, there is a problem with the Reservoirs Act possibly thwarting this. In that vein, I welcome the recent report on reservoir safety, published by Defra in March and drafted by Professor Balmforth, which focuses on the need for a better system of risk assessment of reservoirs rather than simply categorising them by size.

I draw my noble friend’s attention to the conclusions of the Pitt review which to date, as of June 2021, have not been adopted. In particular, recommendation 10 calls for

“The automatic right to connect surface water drainage of new developments to the sewerage system”


to be removed, or at least to amend that right to connect to a public sewer, making it conditional on meeting requirements in design, construction and the guidance code for adoption. We should also oblige local authorities and other highway agencies to seek to prevent, in maintaining, upgrading or building new infrastructure, untreated run-off from roads and other open surfaces from being discharged into water courses, such as was used successfully in the US Clean Water Act, to ensure a more sustainable management of surface water. That is the most unacceptable form of combined sewer overflow, which could be prevented.

Recommendation 20 of the Pitt review asked that

“The Government should resolve the issue of which organisations should be responsible for the ownership and maintenance of sustainable drainage systems.”


That is a particular problem for retrofit. Going forward, I accept that SUDS have a crucial role to play, but the question of who is responsible for them and maintaining them after construction is key to their success. Recommendation 21 says:

“Defra should work with Ofwat and the water industry to explore how appropriate risk-based standards for public sewerage systems can be achieved”—


for example, through a greater use of SUDS and more natural flood defences such as “slow the flow” schemes.

I will end with some questions to my noble friend and recall some of the recommendations of the report that I was involved with, Bricks & Water. Basically, we called for extra funding to be provided to local planning authorities to ensure that new development is located in accordance with the National Planning Policy Framework and to pursue enforcement action against developers who do not comply with planning conditions.

Given the uptake of property flood resilience measures and continued development within the flood plain, will the Government either extend the Flood Re scheme to cover residential buildings constructed after 1 January 2009 or put an alternative scheme in place? Further to Defra’s recent consultation on the amendments to the Flood Re scheme, will the Government extend this remit to offer discounted insurance premiums to home owners who have installed property flood resilience measures and provide funds for home owners to build back better after a flood?

I have further questions in conclusion for my noble friend. Can he provide further detail on the process of planning policies and processes for managing flood risk, which may need to be strengthened, and how he intends that they will reduce flood risks? Will the Government commit to further strengthening planning policy to prevent new development in areas of high flood risk, such as functional flood plains? Will the Government commit to consultation on inclusion of property flood resilience measures within building regulations as part of the ongoing review?

It is not just North Yorkshire, Pickering and the Vale of York as well as the whole region of Yorkshire that has suffered these substantial floods; it is also the case with Gloucestershire, Lincolnshire and other parts of the country. Therefore, I end with a call to my noble friend and the Government that, based on the experience of floods that we have seen in successive years, we should build appropriate houses in appropriate places and end the practice of building inappropriate houses in inappropriate places. I am grateful for the opportunity to debate these issues, and I look forward to other comments in the course of the afternoon.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the gracious Speech and will take this opportunity to draw together some strands on the environment, transport and communities. I warmly congratulate the noble Lords, Lord Coaker and Lord Morse, on their outstanding maiden speeches. I refer to my entries in the register. I am a member of the Church of England Rural Affairs Group, vice-president of the Association of Drainage Authorities, president of National Energy Action, and co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Water. I also had the privilege of chairing the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee in the House of Commons between 2010 and 2015.

I will focus on the role of farming in the rural economy, market towns and the hinterland of rural communities. I am an enthusiastic advocate of the Government rural-proofing all their policies on health, social care, education and transport, so that they are fit for purpose in a rural setting. Rural communities must have good access to banking and post offices, access to cash so that the elderly, young families and others can pay their bills, affordable housing and good transport, as well as fast-speed broadband and good mobile connectivity.

I would like to consider the challenges to rural areas in the context of the planning Bill and ask my noble friend whether the Government will end the practice of building in inappropriate places, especially flood plains. Will they use more natural flood defences and sustainable drains? We all know that Flood Re does not apply to houses built after 2009, so how will the Government protect existing developments from the consequences of building on flood plains and ensure that future developments are flood-proof? Will the Government use the planning Bill to finally implement the recommendation of the Pitt review in 2007 to end the automatic right to connect for major new developments?

I turn to the Environment Bill and its link and relationship to the Agriculture Act, in particular the fact that details of the environmental land management schemes and current pilot schemes are very sketchy. We must ensure that the link is recognised and made between the active farmer and those taking the economic risk, as well as the importance of livestock farming in upland areas and issues relating to common land. I recognise that farmers have a role to play in tackling climate change, for example carbon sink—capturing and storing carbon in that way—but, for a sustainable farming future for the whole of the UK, tenants must be able to benefit from the new schemes, not just landlords. I add a note of caution on banning the live trade of animals, which is already heavily regulated and very limited. We must consider the economic consequences of losing a very considerable market and losing market share to other countries, such as New Zealand, particularly at this time of year with the sale of spring lambs to France. The loss of that market would have a huge negative impact on hill farms in the north of England and elsewhere in the United Kingdom—I am thinking of Perthshire. Imagine the consequences of losing flocks through such a loss of market.

I also recognise the role of framework agreements and partnership committees with EU parliamentarians under the UK and EU trade and co-operation agreement, as well as working with the devolved Administrations in setting and implementing agricultural policy and environmental law in all the jurisdictions of the United Kingdom. We must be ever-vigilant about animal health and welfare and ensure that the Government make good their excellent commitment to a level playing field on environmental standards. The Government have repeatedly said that they are committed to ensuring that food imports meet the same high standards of production as foods produced here. I hope that that will continue to be the case in the legislation set out before us.

I pause for a moment to consider the future challenge of mental health in the farming community, particularly in rural communities. I pay tribute to all the charities involved.

As well as broader issues in the Environment Bill, in view of the fact that landfill sites are full to bursting, should we be exporting our waste to Holland, Denmark and Turkey or looking to expand the opportunities for energy from waste at home? Can my noble friend confirm that the Environment Bill extends to the marine environment and that the Government will use that opportunity to ensure that offshore wind farms in the North Sea are environmentally safe and friendly. Finally, given the rule of the OEP, how will the Government guarantee that it operates independently? How will its relationship with its opposite bodies in Scotland and Northern Ireland work?

Business and Planning Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 14th July 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

52: Clause 16, page 23, line 34, at end insert—
“(2A) This section does not apply where the condition or approved document restrictions were made due to potential impacts identified in the—(a) the Town and Country Planning (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations 2017 (S.I. 2017/571) assessment; or(b) regulation 63(1) of the Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2017 (S.I. 2017/1012) assessment,on nature conservation interests.”Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment would ensure that no applications are allowed for changes to conditions if those conditions are in place to limit, reduce or remove certain environmental impacts.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I hope to persuade the Minister to present a government amendment in relation to Amendments 52 and 79. I support the thrust of the Bill and the impact it will have, allowing the hospitality and construction industries to recover from a particularly difficult time.

These two amendments relate to working hours in the construction industry and whether, if the temporary measures in Clause 16 are still in place in the autumn or for next year’s breeding season, the Government will pay more than lip service to the environmental protections of which we are so proud. I share the Government’s support for environmental protections such as the habitats and other directives. These are now part of retained UK law, which we have supported through our membership of the European Union.

I am delighted to have the support of the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for these amendments. Amendment 52 seeks to have regard to the Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2017 and what catastrophic environmental impacts there might be reaching a common-sense agreement under those regulations.

Amendment 79 asks that regulations passed under Clause 22(3) be considered by affirmative procedure. Can the Minister confirm that these regulations have undergone or will undergo a proper consultation?

With these few remarks, I hope that I can enlist the support of the Minister and others for these two very important amendments. I am not seeking to delay construction with Amendment 52, but to ensure that we have regard to the habitats directives, which are now part of retained UK law, and that regulations passed under Clause 22 will undergo a proper consultation through affirmative procedure. I beg to move.

[Lord Blencathra (Con) [V]]

My Lords, Amendment 53 in my name seeks a complete ban on any construction activities carried out between 10 pm and 7 am in any location where residents live within 300 metres of those activities applied for.

I thank my noble friend the Deputy Leader for his extremely courteous letter immediately after Second Reading last week, dealing with the points I raised about disturbance to residents. He said:

“The draft guidance highlights in particular that careful consideration will need to be given whether to refuse applications made in relation to developments that are in close proximity to residential areas when the request is likely to have a significant impact on health, taking into account other legal duties of local authorities to protect persons in the locality from the effects of noise.”


While I accept that and believe in local decision-making, I also believe that a national backstop should be imposed by this legislation. If it is right to introduce a national law permitting applicants to apply for up to 24/7 construction working, as this Bill does, equally, it is right to impose a national limit on the times during which that construction may take place.

The Government cannot have it both ways. They cannot say, “We are passing a national law on construction working hours, but we cannot interfere with local decision-making when it comes to setting limits on those hours.” In most cases, I accept that this will all work okay, but we all know of the usual ploy whereby developers submit an application for 20 homes, which is granted, and then they slap in a revised application for 40 homes, which local authorities are afraid to reject in case they lose an expensive judicial review case. Developers and experts manipulate local planning authorities again and again. That is why a national backstop is required.

I strongly support Amendment 56 in the name of my noble friend Lord Randall, to which I wanted to add my name but left it a day too late. It is vital that environmental and wildlife concerns are taken into account. Local authorities must not grant any changes to planning applications until they have gone back and examined the environmental concerns expressed in the original application and any special conditions that the local authority then attaches. I am not suggesting that a new assessment must be carried out, or a whole new EIA, but that the original conditions of protecting the environment be maintained unless there is strong evidence that the proposed new construction conditions applied for create no adverse environmental or wildlife effects. This is not just a matter of disruptive work at night. Was there not a recent case of a company having to remove nets from trees and delay construction because it would have been disruptive to birds nesting at that time of year?

I have done inadequate justice to the speech my noble friend Lord Randall will make on his amendment. I look forward to him setting it out in his usual concise, but highly authoritative and expert, manner. I am proud to give him my support.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, referred to conditions being amended to reduce environmental protection. To be clear, this is a temporary measure and safeguards are in place to ensure that local authorities can consider the environmental impact of reinstating lapsed planning permissions and extending construction hours.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

I thank my noble friend for his eloquent summing up and all those who have spoken on this group of amendments. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, for his support for my amendment. Given what my noble friend the Minister said in response to Amendment 52 regarding the accompanying guidance—that regard is had to the environmental impact assessment and the habitats regulations assessment—and given that, in response to Amendment 79, he said that regulations would be subject to either the draft-affirmative or the made-affirmative procedure, I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 52.

Amendment 52 withdrawn.

Business and Planning Bill

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard) & Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 13th July 2020 Lords Chamber

I understand that local authorities can exercise discretion and apply specific rules, so they may be left with the decision on whether to support pubs or let them close for good, but I would prefer the Government to think again about this. For the avoidance of doubt, will the Minister confirm whether a local authority can make general rules preventing supermarkets from having pavement licences or must it be done case by case? We will come back to some of these points later, but the provision of tables and chairs for consumption of off-sales is contradictory to how licensing is usually interpreted. This wide liberalisation and its implications, at the very least, do not seem to have been properly explained.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 44 and 1. As declared on the register, and as I referred to at Second Reading, I chair the board of PASS, the proof of age standards scheme. I was delighted that my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe highlighted this scheme, which has the support of the hospitality and tourism sector, and the retail sector, as represented by the major players. It is true that we are undertaking a consultation at the moment and that there was a slight delay in enabling everyone from whom we had not already heard to respond.

The point I want to make is that obviously I am in favour of a digital verification scheme. However, to me, it is extremely important that any digital scheme should comply with the same standards and meet the same regulatory requirements as any physical provider. I am sure that my noble friend would agree with that.

As my noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe and the noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, pointed out, a physical proof of age scheme—now moving to digital—is government policy. We look to my noble friend the Minister to tell us, in responding to the debate, that the Home Office stands behind the proposals that we are to make in this regard. As my noble friend and the noble Lord rightly said, it will greatly expedite entrance to clubs, bars, nightclubs and all sorts of places if we have a digital verification scheme alongside the physical scheme. The scheme has been so successful because even the physical scheme offers an alternative to those people—usually young people—who, on a good night out, take their passport or driving licence and come home without it, which obviously incurs a huge expense. So anything that the Minister can do to chivvy things along with the Home Office would be very welcome news.

The fundamental point is that, whichever age verification scheme we use, be it physical or digital, it must meet certain standards. Obviously I would say that PASS is best placed to provide that verification and regulatory role.

I turn briefly to Amendment 1, moved so eloquently by my noble friend Lord Balfe. In most circumstances, it will be environmental health officers who enforce and police these arrangements. But there might be circumstances in which there is an outbreak of public disorder and the police are called. If it is indeed the case that the police have not been consulted, I would be interested to know the reason.

[Baroness Kennedy of Cradley (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I will speak in support of Amendment 40, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond. This amendment seeks to insert a new clause, requiring the Secretary of State to make regulations to ensure that small independent breweries can make an application for a temporary premises licence easily and quickly. This is an important addition, as it would allow small independent breweries that would otherwise be excluded from the benefits of the licence measures in the Bill to take full advantage of them.

Like other businesses, independent breweries have struggled through the lockdown. A recent survey of small independent brewers, conducted by the Society of Independent Brewers, showed that 84% expect the pandemic and subsequent social distancing measures to have a lasting negative impact on their business. It is therefore right that the measures in the Bill, which are after all designed to help businesses recover and to protect jobs, can apply equally to small independent brewers. They should not be excluded.

After all, local breweries have a positive effect on local economies. Where I live in south London, Brockley Brewery—the local brewery, which was started in 2013—employs local people and is a London living wage employer. To survive the lockdown, it has been running a beer delivery service, alongside a weekend brewery shop. I am sure that these innovations have been a lifeline for the business. This amendment will allow other small independent breweries to benefit from innovations such as this. It will give them the option to use the measures in the Bill to keep their business going and to protect jobs. It will allow them to develop more innovative ways of getting their business back on its feet.

I can see no reason to exclude small independent brewers from benefiting from the measures in the Bill. I hope that the noble Baroness will accept the need for Amendment 40 and ensure that this vibrant part of the hospitality sector is not overlooked.

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[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, I have received a request to speak after the Minister from the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, my noble friend has answered my question and I am absolutely delighted with her answer.

[Lord Balfe [V]]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister has very effectively dealt with most of the points that I raised. The key thing is that she has confirmed that local authorities can refuse licences in cumulative impact zones. I am certainly very happy with local authority discretion. I have spent much of my life in politics arguing for devolution of power and for local authorities to be given the right to make decisions in local self-interest. It is clearly now up to Cambridge City Council, in my case, to decide what it wishes to do in the cumulative impact zone. I look forward to it considering things firmly.

As far as my other two amendments go, I am also happy with my noble friend’s response, in particular that the police will be consulted. Again, this is up to local authorities. I am sure that they will do so.

I took the points made by a number of noble Lords about the hospitality industry. The Bill goes somewhat further than the hospitality industry, but it is that industry that we seek to help. It will be a long struggle. Many of my friends are very reluctant, shall I say, to go back to restaurants, certainly indoors. If the Minister has time to read it, last weekend the Office for National Statistics published a very interesting document following a survey of how people regarded lockdown and the consequences thereof. To answer the direct question that I am asked: I beg leave to withdraw Amendment 1.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Carlile of Berriew (CB) [V]]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe. Like her, I absolutely recognise the economic imperatives behind the Bill, including this part of it. In your Lordships’ House we have excellent spokespeople for disabled people and real expertise, ranging from a colleague with enormous Olympic achievements to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, who I congratulate on his admirable—if uncharacteristic—feat of pedantry in this debate, showing the absurdity of some of the rules. I support the notion that there should be the best possible uniform standard for enabling disabled people to negotiate our streets and built environment, even when economic imperatives lead to the opening up of those streets for eating, drinking and café society.

I will add a comment on Amendments 6, 7 and 8. There are good reasons for planning restrictions, and we do not want to see our built environment damaged significantly as a result of the economic imperatives that we are following. In particular, we need to protect the peace of places where people live and not see them turned into drinking streets because they happen to have a couple of pubs in the vicinity. I therefore support the requirement set out in Amendments 6, 7 and 8 for a proper consultation period.

Because of the internet, everybody knows that it is necessary at the current time to curtail some of the more officious parts of planning law, I would regard 14 days, rather than a week, as a reasonable period. However, it is important for such applications to be screened on the internet by local authorities, which can do it very easily, and for people to be given a meaningful number of days in which to make their representation. That would enable local authorities to make a quick assessment of the level of objections, if there were any, and to make an empirical judgment, rather than reacting only to the economic imperatives. I will keep back some of the things I want to say on similar issues to the debate on the next group of amendments.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lords, Lord Holmes, Lord Blencathra and Lord Cormack, on their amendments. This is a difficult area. On the one hand, we want to proceed quickly as these are temporary measures and we want to make good and recoup some of the losses that the hospitality industry has suffered. On the other, we want to allow access for those who are visually or otherwise impaired, or who are wheelchair users. When he sums up on this group of amendments, will my noble friend clarify how the Government imagine that the guidelines will be fit for purpose in this regard? Although I can see that there is an argument for consultation, does my noble friend not agree that that could potentially delay the coming into force of these arrangements?

I bow to the good will and common sense of the restauranteurs and bar owners who will seek to use a pavement area only if it is physically safe for the category that falls within the remit of these amendments. It is up to them, working with the environmental health officers and the police, to make sure that these provisions are enforceable.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP) [V]]

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to follow my colleague the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering. I declare my interest as a vice-president of the LGA. This is an interesting section of amendments, because this is something we should be doing all the time. We should not have to insert it into legislation: it should be automatic. We have not only a considerable number of disabled people in our society but an ageing population. Speaking as someone who is ageing, I would like to think that such care and planning always happens, particularly with legislation of this kind. Even when it is temporary, it still matters.

It is obvious to us all that coronavirus has put life on hold. It has also given us a chance to change established ways of working. I note that many noble Lords have been talking about getting back to normal, but I argue that normal is not a particularly good place to return to. We should be thinking about how to make things better and not just repeating mistakes made in the past couple of hundred years. Increasingly, of course, given the changes in our population, we need to ensure that we are not imposing disabilities on people who are very active but have sight or movement problems.

The Bill should require that a minimum safe pavement area be left accessible—that is obvious—so that street furniture does not force pedestrians to walk in the road. That safe pavement space could vary depending on how busy the route is. Some high streets, for example, may have no safe encroachment area, which will cause large numbers of people to get too close together, but others might only require a metre or the 500 cm that the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, spoke about—his was a pretty good speech. In any event, the Bill is currently deficient as it does nothing to address that issue, and the likely problems are obvious. Some councils have taken the opportunity during the coronavirus pandemic to close some streets to traffic and open them to pedestrians. That is obviously a wonderful way forward.

Consultation definitely needs to be improved for the emergency licensing regime. The measures proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Holmes, would maintain rapid licensing while helping to ensure that those who may be impacted can have their say and adapt the licensing accordingly. A system of appeal or reconsideration should be included in the Bill. It is natural that some mistakes will be made with such a rapid decision-making process, so it would be a good idea to include a provision that would remove these measures quickly as well. Judicial review should not be the only option to put things right. It is very cumbersome and slow.

Tucked into this group is Amendment 4 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, which would allow licences for pavement spaces outside empty premises. That would be a worthy improvement to the Bill, making better use of empty premises and their adjacent pavements. It is a simple amendment and I hope that the Minister can accept it.

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[Baroness Noakes]

My Lords, I hesitate to be predictable; the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, has partly predicted what I will say. I am concerned that some of the amendments will make the process of applying for a licence more difficult and the process of getting one unattractive. In particular, if an automatic licence is granted for a very short time, it is of no real use to a hospitality business, which will probably have to invest in further tables and chairs and so on to operate outside, because not all can move outside the tables that they have inside. The amendments work against the spirit of the Bill, which is to try to get the economy going again.

We should not embellish the Bill with lots of extra things that have to be taken into account. There are already significant powers for local authorities to deal with these applications. Local authorities may have to get a bit more agile and deal with applications a bit more quickly than they have in the past. My impression of local government, never having been closely involved in it, is that it is not very agile. I will probably get into trouble with my husband when I get home because he chairs a planning committee, sits on a licensing committee and probably would not recognise my characterisation of lack of agility, but in these difficult times local authorities should be prepared to get a move on and do whatever they need to do to protect their local residents. They do not need any changes to this Bill to do so.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, I have sympathy with what my noble friend Lady Noakes has just said, but I have lent my support to Amendment 16 in the name of my noble friend Lord Holmes. It is appropriate that a local authority should be able to include conditions when granting pavement licences in line with any concerns expressed in the public consultation—with the proviso that the consultation takes only seven days, so I am afraid that I do not support the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Low. However, my noble friend Lady Noakes had a point when she said that such conditions should not be so restrictive as to make a nonsense of what is requested in the licence being applied for. I hope that common sense in this regard will prevail.

[Lord Balfe [V]]

I do not agree with my noble friend Lady Noakes: we are not trying to make it more difficult; as I see it, we are trying to get the balance right. I referred in my initial speech to the changes in the regulations—what I think of as the Blair/Jowell reforms—which opened up our high streets to a wild west of alcohol licensing. One thing those measures had in common with this legislation is that they came into force in August. We are proposing to bring this into force at precisely the time when local authorities are going for their summer break—indeed, at precisely the time when we are going for our summer break. By my definition of local authorities getting “a move on”, extending the consultation from seven to 14 days is quite reasonable; I do not think that it is difficult at all. If someone sends an application by second-class post and gets their proof of posting at 5 pm on a Friday, it is unlikely to get there before the next Tuesday—particularly in Cambridge—so we are not even giving seven days. Seven days from date of receipt would be bad enough, but seven days from posting is just not enough.

I asked in my previous contribution whether people who wished to extend in front of unused shops would need to get the permission of their lessee or owner. That is an important point, because otherwise we are basically saying that a premises can just expand on to next door’s territory without any agreement.

I asked earlier, and did not get an answer, whether a local authority could reject an application because it had not had enough time to consider it. In other words, if it arrived on a Tuesday and was due to be determined on a Friday, and it is August and everybody is on holiday, could the authority say, “No, we reject it. We need another seven or 14 days to consider it”?

Amendment 16 states that conditions may

“incorporate views and concerns expressed in the public consultation under section 2.”

How will those views and concerns be gathered? If the local authority asks for views and concerns, it will effectively be giving the general public 24 or maybe 48 hours and then it will have to meet to decide what to do with the public consultation. We keep hearing about the need to open up the economy, but the majority of people in Britain do not feel safe going into a restaurant as it is. I do not agree that the economy will be opened up by this legislation. What we will get is basically another version of the wild west. We need to legislate at a reasonable pace, because if we do so in haste, we will regret at leisure. That is what happened in the earlier, 2003-04 experiment and it is what we are heading for here. Please let us take this at a reasonable pace.

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[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, subject to what my noble friend Lady Williams has to say, I lend my support to Amendments 27 and 31, to have a cut-off period for the sale of drink at 11 pm. I hope that is something that she will support.

[Baroness Stowell of Beeston]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s statement and the Government’s decision to table an amendment on Report. I have one question to ask the Minister: would it be possible for any premises that wanted to introduce an earlier finish time for off-sales to do so? It is very hard to see from reading the Bill whether there is any flexibility in that regard.

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I hope the Government will consider working with these industry leaders and exploring the type of assistance that may be helpful for their members in this sector to protect and harness a £4 billion industry with significant employers across the whole UK. Can the Minister say whether the Government have undertaken any discussions with the Bangladesh Caterers Association and the British Bangladesh Chamber of Commerce & Industry? These organisations are in an excellent position to act as a hub where specialist SMEs and the curry businesses can go for help and advice in accessing government initiatives. Will the Minister consider meeting me and a number of leaders and representatives from this sector to consider how best to assist the curry industry?

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering [V]]

My Lords, the amendments in this group have much to commend them. I support Amendment 42 in the name of my noble friend Lady Anelay in particular. It is important that the provisions before us today are carried out effectively and that the balance we all wish to achieve between the hospitality and tourism sector and the rights of residents and other users is maintained. By the end of January 2021 is a good reporting period. Amendment 78 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, also has much to commend it, but I fear that a monthly report is a very tall order. I look forward with interest to my noble friend the Minister’s response to this group.

[Baroness Pinnock [V]]

The amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, lays bare the deep concerns of the tourism sector. The Government’s response will be crucial. As my noble friend Lady Doocey said, the tourism sector is on a knife-edge. The example she gave from the Lake District is no doubt being felt elsewhere in regions dependent on tourism. In replying to the debate, I hope the Minister can give hope and help to these regions.

Local Government: Economy

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Tuesday 9th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Greenhalgh]

My Lords, I have already made the commitment that the UK shared prosperity fund will see no diminution in the support to enable us to level up our economy, including support for rural areas.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con) [V]]

My Lords, will my noble friend join me in paying tribute to North Yorkshire County Council and the close partnership it has formed with the local LEP to ensure that local businesses are able to access the loans, funds and grants that the Government are so generously operating at this time? I invite him to press the case for recognition of rurality and the particular plight of microbusinesses in rural areas being able to access these funds—a not dissimilar question to that asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market.

[Lord Greenhalgh]

My noble friend raises an important point: support for the economy needs to include those microbusinesses in rural areas. The figures and support mechanisms indicate that a number of businesses have received support, whether it is by grant or by business premises rates deferral, but we will look specifically into those measures as well so that we support all businesses during this pandemic.

Covid-19: Housing

Baroness McIntosh of Pickering Excerpts

Monday 18th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to his position and thank him for taking questions. He will realise that many of those who suffered in the winter floods are still being rehoused. Does he have any idea how many are in that position? Will he take this opportunity to pause before any new houses and major developments are completed to make sure that our future housing stock is resilient, especially to floods? Will he give an undertaking that the Government will stop allowing developments in inappropriate places such as functional flood plains and ensure that there are adequate drainage systems to prevent overflows from combined sewers?

[Lord Greenhalgh]

The noble Baroness raises an important point: we need to ensure that future homes are resilient to floods. I will write to her on her specific points.