Early Years Provision: Bell Review

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right about the challenge for the workforce. That is why, last week, as he says, we published further information about the 75,000 additional staff that will be necessary. It will be a challenge, but we have already begun work, focusing on the Government’s childcare recruitment campaign, “Do Something Big”. We have also introduced a T-level in early years and childcare, and through Skills England we will be identifying the gaps and ensuring that the support is there for employers to develop staff in this area. But it will be a very big challenge to make sure that the places and people are there to deliver the entitlement by next September.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, many young mothers are not very good at looking after their very young children. What are the Government doing to help mothers and children bond and learn to look after each other?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

In my case, I could say that slightly older mothers were probably not particularly good at looking after their young children either.

The noble and learned Baroness makes a very important point about the support we provide for mothers, obviously through midwives and antenatal care, which I know my colleague in the Department of Health and Social Care will be very concerned about, and we will hear her views. In ensuring we have early family support, particularly for the most vulnerable families, we will also help to overcome that problem.

Government’s Childcare Expansion

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. As I suggested earlier, childcare provision is good for parents because it provides them with opportunities to work and supports them with the cost of living. Most importantly—my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is adamant about this—high-quality early years education provision ensures that children get the very best possible start. It helps to overcome disadvantage in their home lives; it helps to identify special educational needs earlier, and it sets children up to learn. That is why it will be an absolute commitment of this Government. We were pleased to be able to outline last week the next stage of our development in this area.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, could the Minister of State say something about the importance of the status of people who work in early years?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

Absolutely. The name of our recruitment campaign to encourage more people to come and work in this area is “Do Something Big”. Our argument is that there is little that you can do that is more important for changing somebody’s life than working with them in their very earliest years, whether through caring or through early years education and development. That is why the investment that this Government are putting in is so important and why we will celebrate the people who carry out that really important role.

Education (Values of British Citizenship) Bill [HL]

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 18th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, this is an important Bill. It is an equally important reminder than unless children in schools learn about the importance of values for British citizenship, how on earth are they to grow up and live with their neighbours of different ideas, cultures, religions, beliefs, or none of those? As the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries of Pentregarth, said, I chaired the commission in 2015, of which he was a most valued member. He largely kept us in order, which was actually quite important since there were 20 of us of various religions and none.

The noble and right reverend Lord referred to a great deal of what was said in part of that report, which came before the Select Committee and I hope had some influence on it. At the end of the day, living with difference is what we have to do, since we are a multicultural society. In our report, we set out a vision very similar to the wording of this important Bill. We included the importance of a national story, and that people should be treated with equal respect and concern. Concern matters as well as respect; we should recognise other people’s needs as well as their views. We also included freedom to practise beliefs, religious or otherwise.

Clause 1 of the Bill refers to

“democracy … the rule of law … freedom … individual worth”

and, very importantly, as other noble Lords have said,

“respect for the environment”,

which is a valuable addition to what has already been said.

The Government absolutely must take notice of what the Bill is saying and breeze it through both Houses, as I would hope, or at least bring it into whatever legislation they choose to introduce. One way or another, it is extremely important, as other noble Lords have said, that the Government pick up and act on what is being said today by the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries.

Independent Schools: VAT Exemption

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Thursday 5th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest that I went to an independent school, as did my children. I must say, like many others have said so far today, that doing that spent all our money. We did not take foreign holidays and things like that, but it was worth it.

I strongly support what the noble Lord, Lord Hacking, said, as well as many other speakers. The Government have not looked across the independent sector; they have concentrated on the great schools. As has been said, the great schools will survive, probably largely because of foreign pupils.

I have had a lot of experience of small independent schools, right across the country, and I have had—like everyone else here, I am sure—endless emails from parents from small independent schools, many of which are likely to close. They are often local, and parents have put their children in them for very good reasons. One example I read was of a nine year-old autistic boy who is extremely clever. In the state sector, he was absolutely hopeless. He was removed and sent to a small independent school, where he was cherished. That sort of child may well cope in ordinary school if he has sufficient help, which this child did not have.

I also have a personal experience. One of my grandsons is profoundly deaf. He is American, and he went to an independent school in Los Angeles because he could not cope with a lot of noise and had to sit at the front of the class to be sure to hear what was going on. I am sure that similarly profoundly deaf children in this country going through ordinary education would not necessarily have a very good time.

I have to say that I am very concerned for the people on modest incomes—many of your Lordships have already been talking about modest incomes—who are still taking the trouble to spend money on education rather than on holidays and other things. That is what is being attacked here with this proposal.

As I said, many small schools are almost certain to close. What on earth will the effect be if, in the middle of the academic year, a considerable number of children have to go into the state sector? We know that many schools in the state sector are overfull already, and the teachers will not be there because the money has not yet been raised. I am particularly concerned with pupils in their GCSE and A-level years; nobody has yet spoken particularly about those two groups. How on earth will they go into the state system with probably a completely different programme, working in a state where they absolutely will not be able to cope with what is going to happen? If they do not look at anything else, the Government must look at January. Finally, I ask them to please look at SEND, at special schools for other needs and at military schools.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend is right, and I am very proud of that. Our position, as I said, has been tested in the legal advice in the consideration of these changes. Our view is that being charged at the standard rate of VAT paid by millions of businesses across the UK is not discriminatory and is clearly proportionate to the objective of better funding for state schools. To the extent that I am able, I will certainly ensure that I write further about that issue to my noble friend and to others.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

May I ask the Minster, before she sits down, about the children taking GCSEs and A-levels? What are the Government going to do to help them where there will be changes in the programmes they are doing?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I apologise to the noble and learned Baroness: with respect, I was showing my inexperience in this House and asking my Whip about the situation. If the House will allow, could the noble and learned Baroness repeat her question?

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

I was asking about children taking GCSEs and A-levels when this starts in January.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I think I covered that point in talking about the arguments for introducing this in January, while also making it clear that it is the Government’s view that introducing the VAT liability does not necessarily imply that a sudden increase in bills will arise; nor does it imply that the whole of that increase in VAT will be passed on in fees. In fact, if we look at the behaviour in the private school sector, we see that, despite very large increases in fees—well above inflation—parents have tended, where they have made that choice, to keep their children in the private sector anyway, and I am sure that the vast majority of parents will continue to do that. The analysis, including that carried out by the Institute for Fiscal Studies, suggests that, even if there is going to be a movement of pupils away from the private sector, that will tend to be not immediately in January but over a much longer period, and I imagine that will be the approach that most parents take.

Coram’s Charter for Children

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Tuesday 16th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not fully recognise the figures that the noble Baroness refers to. As she knows, we have been adjusting school funding to try to move towards a national funding formula. We have also invested increasingly in the pupil premium to support precisely the children whom she and the Government are most concerned about.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, looking at the other end of childhood—teenagers—will the Government do something better about youth clubs, which might have some effect on gangs?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

There are multiple things that will have effects on gangs, but clearly the engagement of young people is very important, as the noble and learned Baroness suggests. That is why we made the national youth guarantee commitments in 2022.

Children’s Care Homes: Reform

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not agree with that. While I agree that children in care homes potentially have more severe mental health issues, I think that, typically, children who go into a care home have also experienced severe neglect and abuse, and have more complex needs than those who are fostered.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, what efforts are the Government making to support a lot more foster carers?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government are making a great deal of effort in this area. We are investing over £27 million, in this spending review period, in a foster care recruitment and retention programme. That will start in the north-east, with £3 million for a pathfinder hub; the additional £24 million will be for a wider rollout.

Children in Care: Gone Too Far Report

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As I said in my initial response, it is the responsibility of local authorities to provide sufficiency within their boundaries. Of course there are exceptional cases, and I have touched, for example, on children who are gang-involved and need to be moved further from home for their safety, but the kind of co-ordination the noble Lord talked about is exactly what we want in practice.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, as we have heard, because these children are disturbed and many of them have suffered trauma, which is why they have been taken into care, there seems to be some urgency in this matter. They should be put, where possible, reasonably close to home. Can this not be speeded up?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We are going as fast as possible in this. Obviously, our foster caring strategy has had a very significant investment, and there is the additional £9 million we are putting into kinship care. The latter is building on some very successful pilots, so we want to speed up the things that work but make sure that we understand that they work first of all.

Special Educational Needs: Employment Support

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Everybody who meets with a work coach should expect to get quality time, and my understanding is that the vast majority of individuals do. Of course, this is important for young people with SEND. DWP has a huge amount of experience in dealing with long-term health conditions and disabilities. Secondly, part of the work we are doing together with the DWP is to understand and knit together where education meets employment, to make sure that we get the best outcomes for young people.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, my granddaughter, aged six, was identified with quite severe dyslexia. She went to the Eleanor Palmer School, where the headmistress said that no one in the school knew how to deal with it, so she sent two of the staff to be trained. My granddaughter did brilliantly at primary school and ended up at Edinburgh University with a good degree. So support really needs to start at primary school to ensure success in education.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can reassure the noble and learned Baroness that it does start at primary school. The work we are doing to help teachers identify dyslexia early on—in particular, the early phonics screening test—allows us to do just that. Through our English hubs, we are helping primary schools and their teachers to support children like the noble and learned Baroness’s granddaughter.

Children in Care

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I am a patron of a secure unit down in Exeter. One of its main concerns is a lack of funding to get sufficient staff and sufficient training. What will the strategy do about that?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot anticipate exactly what the strategy with do, as the noble and learned Baroness is aware. The cost of a child or young person being in a secure unit is extremely high, and we will be looking at the detail of how we can make sure that recruitment needs are addressed.

Family-strengthening Policies

Baroness Butler-Sloss Excerpts

Monday 10th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not aware of any recent research, but the noble Baroness is obviously aware that we offer universal free school meals. There are 1.25 universal infant free school meals—sorry, 1.25 million; that was close, it was nearly policy at the Dispatch Box—so 1.25 million children in infant schools receive those meals.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a particular group of young mothers with very young children who are quite unable to understand how to bring them up, and what can the Government do to help that group?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

One of the biggest lines in the budget for family hubs—£50 million of the £300 million in that package—is for parenting programmes specifically, and an even bigger line, about £100 million, is for infant and parental mental health. Both those things address the group which the noble Baroness refers to.