Government’s Childcare Expansion

Baroness Smith of Malvern Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches welcome the proposals; they are very much in line with our manifesto at the last election. I believe that all three parties, in perhaps slightly different ways, have a real desire to develop childcare provision. I want to tease out from the Minister the most important thing for early years childcare provision: the quality of the staff and the staff feeling valued. That means not just the salary but the training opportunities they get.

Over the last decade or more, we have seen staff in nursery and early years settings feeling that they are there just as glorified helpers. One nursery nurse said to me, “I could get more stacking the shelves at Lidl than I get in my job in a nursery”. If we want brilliant early years education, we need staff who feel motivated and want a career in that line of work. I had a 100-place nursery in a primary school and I remember how the staff were absolutely devastated when their names were changed from “nursery nurse” to “NVQ level 4”. They hated that. There had been no consultation with them at all; it just happened as part of the skills agenda. That is my first point.

My second point is that, while we welcome the commitment on top-up charges, we have also to recognise that the income generated in private nurseries sometimes caused real problems for them; but doing away with top-up charges is absolutely correct.

I like the notion that we increasingly put nurseries in primary schools, where there is capacity. Why? Because the primary school can provide all the other things that are available there: advice on special educational needs, and a whole host of other opportunities.

I am pleased about childminders—although I do not actually like the title “childminder”. They do not just mind children; they develop children. They get them to play, to interact, to talk, to learn and to discover. They do more than just minding—but I suppose we are stuck with that title. Childminders were very concerned several years ago when there was a movement towards doing away with single childminders; they had to be part of a company or a group. I thought that was wrong. So I recognise and welcome the proposals on childminding. It should not be a sort of privatised provision. Anybody who has the qualifications and experience should be allowed to do it.

I want to make a final point. There is an aspiration to go to 30 weeks’ provision, but that provision does not cover a full calendar year. Nurseries—particularly private nurseries—find it very difficult because, at the end of the 30 weeks of provision, some parents, especially those from deprived communities, cannot pay the additional money, so they withdraw their children for that period. The nursery or early years setting then finds it difficult to financially survive. So, we need to look at how we ensure that there is equity for the provider as well.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Smith of Malvern) (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness and the noble Lord. I am very happy to accept that there has been an enormous transformation in the country’s attitude to childcare and in the extent of childcare available. When I entered the other House in 1997, following a considerable period of Conservative rule, we in Worcestershire were infamous for having the worst childcare provision across the whole of Europe. I am glad that people have seen that childcare and early years provision is important for people’s ability to go to work and, at this moment in time, to support people with the cost of living, but I think that the additional area where we need to focus more attention is that good early years provision is absolutely fundamental for children’s development and giving them the very best possible start in life.

The noble Baroness suggested that the Government are pitch-rolling away from the pledge to entitle working parents to 30 hours of childcare a week from 2025; that is absolutely not the case. The Government are committed to providing that, but we are being transparent and honest about the challenge it will bring. As we said last week, it will mean another 75,000 childcare places and over 30,000 more staff will be necessary; that is a big challenge that needs a plan, not just an aspiration.

I am sorry that the noble Baroness thought that the comms at the beginning of the school year were a little on the quiet side; I did a whole morning media round on this and shouted it from the rooftops. I am pleased that we were able to celebrate 320,000 more parents getting their childcare entitlement this year, but there is certainly more that we need to do. That is why we will work to look more strategically at what we need to do to develop the early years sector and have undertaken to develop a strategy, which I expect us to publish and bring to this House next year.

The noble Baroness asked about breakfast clubs. A few weeks ago, we were able to announce the 750 trailblazing breakfast clubs that will be open by next year, which will build on previous work to get breakfast clubs into schools. However, we are also making a stronger commitment both to providing these free for all primary school pupils and to ensuring that the childcare element of the breakfast club is also in place—that is a very important way that we get children to school early and ready to learn, which does not necessarily happen just if you have a breakfast club, despite the excellent work those breakfast clubs are doing.

On school-based nurseries, the noble Baroness is right that we announced last week £150 million of funding which schools can bid into, so that we can develop up to 300 school-based nurseries as part of our objective to have 3,000 of those over the course of this Parliament.

The noble Lord is absolutely right that, if we are to achieve quality early years provision, we need to develop even further the brilliant staff who are working in early years and childcare. That means we need to reset our relationship with the childcare workforce, ensure that there is appropriate status for that role and think about training. We have already begun to provide, for example, more guidance around how to identify special educational needs, and we will want to continue that work.

We are taking action on ensuring that mandatory extra top-up charges are not levied on parents who take up government-funded childcare places, and we will be working with the sector and with parents in order to make sure that we strengthen that guidance.

Childminders do excellent work, but we have seen a halving of the numbers of childminders over recent years. The flexibilities, including the additional flexibilities announced last week, will help to ensure that childminding remains an important element of the childcare environment.

The noble Lord raised a point about flexibility for school holidays. It is already the case that quite a lot of childcare provision, including that provided around schools, continues into the school holidays. However, in thinking about our overall development of provision and our strategy, we will certainly want to think about how we can ensure that that is as flexible and well supported as possible for parents to be able to use all year round because of the enormously important impact that it has on those parents and, more importantly, on children’s best start in life.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Before the Minister sits down, I wonder if she could clarify something. I heard her say that there was a £150 million capital pot for nurseries, but I think I read in the Statement that it was £15 million. If she cannot confirm that now, maybe she could write to us.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I apologise. The noble Baroness is absolutely right. I have been overambitious on the Government’s spending plans and I will be in big trouble for that. The figure is £15 million for up to 300 new or expanded nurseries. I thank the noble Baroness for allowing me to correct that.

[Baroness Blackstone (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the decision by the Government to expand early-years provision, both education and childcare, but the Statement does not perhaps go far enough in clarifying some of the issues that are likely to emerge from that policy decision. The first, as the Statement makes clear, is that we do not have enough staff to carry out this expansion, certainly not in the timescale that the Government are hoping to achieve. What discussions are taking place with the providers of teacher education and training to try to increase the numbers of young people deciding to become teachers and who take on specialisation in the early years, particularly for three to seven year-olds?

Secondly, what will the role of head teachers be in this slightly complex set-up where, on school premises, there will be not just an expansion of nursery classes but also the provision of childcare for younger children? What responsibility will head teachers have to take for what is going on on their premises in relation to childminders, private providers of one kind or another or voluntary organisations? Certainly, parents will imagine that head teachers have some responsibility for what is happening on their premises.

Lastly, what work is being done to integrate the educational aspect of provision with the childcare aspects of provision? The Minister has rightly said that it is important for the development of children that this expansion takes place, but that expansion must bring with it high standards of provision. Indeed, the Statement says it is the Government’s priority to provide such high standards. Could the Minister respond to those questions?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend is right that having sufficient well-qualified staff is one of the biggest challenges for developing the entitlement in early years. That is why, as I outlined earlier, we have a national recruitment campaign, we are piloting whether financial incentives will boost recruitment in early years, we have skills boot camps for early years that lead to an accelerated apprenticeship, we have the new T-level, and Skills England will look at the sector to see what more qualifications we need to have in place. We are providing additional flexibility for childminders to help to care for children and to come into childminding through the childminder start-up scheme.

The DfE currently supports a pipeline of early years teachers into the sector by funding early years initial teacher training and developing an undergraduate early years teacher degree apprenticeship to support early years leaders and teachers to earn while they learn. My noble friend is right that the range of provision within a primary school is a challenge for a head teacher, but we also heard from the noble Lord, Lord Storey, some of the benefits that head teachers will find from having that early start for children, with all that it brings to their development.

On the quality and scope of early years, we made some announcements last week about ensuring that, as we develop the scale of the provision, we do not lose quality through new provisions around the early years foundation stage. We will also want to continue thinking about how we can ensure that the highest quality of learning happens during that stage. We will undoubtedly have more to say about that as we develop the quality and extent of early years care.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, I very much welcome this Statement, especially the section that reads:

“The Government believe that all children deserve access to a brilliant early education, regardless of who they are, where they come from or their parents’ income”.


The Minister will share my concern about young children who either are not registered at nursery school or are registered but rarely attend. What steps might be taken to monitor what happens to those children, who should be in school but are not?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes a very important point. We have already said, more broadly, that we intend to bring forward provisions in the children and well-being bill for a children’s register for those outside schools. However, in the changes that we announced last week to the safeguarding provisions in the early years foundation scheme, we are also intending, after consultation, to introduce a new provision that will ensure better follow-up of children who have been registered with nurseries and who then do not attend, in the way in which the noble Lord suggests.

[Baroness Wyld (Con)]

My Lords, I remind the House of my registered interest as a non-executive board member at Ofsted. The Minister will be aware that this landscape can be complex for parents to navigate. She talked about communications, but can she say a bit more about what the Government will do to ensure that all parents who have entitlement for their youngest children get the provision to which they are entitled? Might they be working with the family hubs and health visiting teams to have a strategic approach to communications on this?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a very important point: that when there is a new entitlement, parents should understand what they are entitled to and be supported to find the places that support their children, which is why we will continue to publicise this. We will also, as she rightly says, find the other routes to ensuring that parents understand what their entitlements are. The next time that I am doing a media round on this, I will redouble my efforts so that I do not disappoint the noble Baronesses opposite.

[Lord Goodman of Wycombe (Con)]

My Lords, the most formative childcare for most children is of course provided by parents and families themselves. What plans do the Government have to make it easier for grandparents to care for their children and what plans they have, if any, to build on the transferable allowances introduced by the coalition Government?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Lord is absolutely right that grandparents quite often play a very important role in supporting their children and grandchildren. I will take away his exhortations about support for grandparents and perhaps return to that matter directly with him when I have found out more about it.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, further to the questions about the workforce, the point has been made that it is about more than just giving an adequate salary for those in childcare; it is about recognition. The Minister referred in her reply to status and staff development. What steps are being taken to develop a proper career structure so that this field of education can compete with the rest of the education field in having a well-defined career structure for people to aim at?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Lord is right; it is of course about reward, but it is also about progression and recognition. We have worked hard already to try to reset our relationship with staff across the education system. Over the coming weeks and months, the Government will set out further plans for reform to ensure that the workforce feels supported and valued. We want a system that celebrates and supports early years carers and embeds it into our wider education system. Alongside the work I have already outlined on recruitment, recognition and status is something that we will want to return to in the early years strategy as we develop it.

[Baroness Ramsey of Wall Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, to what extent does my noble friend the Minister consider that this welcome expansion will further the Government’s mission to break down the barriers to opportunity?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. As I suggested earlier, childcare provision is good for parents because it provides them with opportunities to work and supports them with the cost of living. Most importantly—my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is adamant about this—high-quality early years education provision ensures that children get the very best possible start. It helps to overcome disadvantage in their home lives; it helps to identify special educational needs earlier, and it sets children up to learn. That is why it will be an absolute commitment of this Government. We were pleased to be able to outline last week the next stage of our development in this area.

[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, could the Minister of State say something about the importance of the status of people who work in early years?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

Absolutely. The name of our recruitment campaign to encourage more people to come and work in this area is “Do Something Big”. Our argument is that there is little that you can do that is more important for changing somebody’s life than working with them in their very earliest years, whether through caring or through early years education and development. That is why the investment that this Government are putting in is so important and why we will celebrate the people who carry out that really important role.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, is it not also the case with the staffing of early years that there may be a staff surplus in some parts of the country? One has seen the statistical collapse in the number of young children in the inner London area, yet places such as Oxfordshire have apparently double the number of children than childcare places. Is part of the strategy to enable people already in this sector to relocate?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes a very important point. I am not sure that it is for the Government forcibly to relocate staff in this area, but let me take that back to those working on the childcare strategy as we think about how to reform this as a place to work and ensure that it is a positive place to work. We seek to meet demand where it is needed, because not only are there shortages of staff in some areas but there are shortages of provision. We will certainly make sure that we are focusing support on those areas that most need both the staff and the provision.

[Baroness Prosser (Lab)]

My Lords, I am pleased to hear the Minister speak about the importance of the workforce. Will the Government bear in mind that it is important to include the employment of young men as nursery nurses as well as young women? Many years ago, my son was one of a very small handful of men who qualified under the old NNEB rules. Lots of the children in nursery at that time had very disjointed families and did not have a good male figure within their household. Sometimes the male nursery nurse was the only stable male person they came across. That may not be so much the case now, in terms of the sorts of children who will find their way into good nursery care, but it is important to bear in mind that men as well as women can be very good at this job.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend eloquently outlines the enormous difference that can be made to a child’s start in life by the security and development that they can get from any early years worker. She is absolutely right that this is a job that men do extremely well and should be encouraged into doing. For some children who have not had the benefit of having those sorts of role models in their family lives, they will probably be fundamentally important for their success later on in life.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the last Labour Government’s great achievements was the introduction of the Sure Start scheme, but, as my noble friend will know, many Sure Start centres have been closed. I am often asked what our Government’s position is on Sure Start. Could my noble friend perhaps say something about it?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

One of the very last contributions that I made in the House of Commons before I came face to face with the electorate in Redditch was to suggest that I feared that a future Conservative Government might dismantle our Sure Start programme. I was jeered at the time, yet sadly I was right. In recent years we have seen, through some of the longitudinal analysis that was done on Sure Start, the impact that it had on children’s lives. I am afraid I cannot at this time undertake to reinstate the scale and significance of the last Labour Government’s Sure Start scheme, but I can say that recognising the way in which all those elements work in a child’s life—childcare, early years, health and family support—will be a very important way that, across this Government, we think about our future plans to support children to have the very best start in life.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the creation of a children’s register —yet another register that we are creating when we have already set up so many over the years. If she casts her mind back to the previous Labour Government, one of the major initiatives we had was to create an identity system for each person and child in the country. We increasingly see that that need still has to be addressed, particularly for problems with immigration, yet we now have a different approach by the new Labour Government. Although I recognise that this is rather wide of her brief, I wonder whether she would care to bear in mind that there is a case to be made for a simple approach to this. We ought to be trying to create coalitions where we work together to create a system that will give us greater data about everyone, including children, and which would be far more efficient than the present system, where we create separate systems all the time.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

My noble friend tempts me to relive my days developing the national identity scheme and, in fact, having one of the very first identity cards issued by the last Labour Government. However, I will not go down that route. I have some sympathy with his point about around the range of different ways in which we now ask people to prove their identity. The intention behind the register for those children who are out of school is very much about safeguarding and ensuring that children do not get lost to our system, as has sadly become increasingly the case over recent years and which was exacerbated by Covid. This has a very special and important child safeguarding intention, which is why it is a legitimate scheme in its own right.