Lord Colgrain (Con)
My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lady Seccombe, and with her permission, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in her name on the Order Paper.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill) (Lab)
This Government take road safety very seriously, and reducing the number of those killed and injured on our roads is a key priority. The department is currently considering policy options in this area, and my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport is meeting with campaigners this week. While we are not considering graduated driving licences, we absolutely recognise that young people are disproportionately victims of tragic incidents on our roads, and we are considering other measures to tackle this problem and to protect young drivers.
Lord Colgrain (Con)
When a young person passes their driving test, it is an occasion for pride and congratulation; it is seldom mentioned that they have been put in charge of a lethal weapon. Any subsequent accident that brings about their death or the death of their friends causes excruciating pain to their families and survivors, and it begs many questions. Does the Minister agree with me, therefore, that we should do more to mitigate these terrible circumstances? Does he support the suggestion that, for six months after a driving test is passed, the driver should be allowed only one passenger, located in the front seat? Does he agree that, before a test is taken, the learner driver should be made to watch the film produced by county fire and rescue services, which narrates in graphic detail the role played by fire, police and ambulance services when a fatal accident occurs?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
Every death on our roads is a tragedy, and our thoughts remain with the families of everyone who has lost a loved one in this way. As I have said, the Secretary of State is meeting this week with some campaigners who, tragically, are in that position. There is a form of restricting novice drivers through the Road Traffic (New Drivers) Act 1995. On acquiring their first full licence, a new driver is on probation for two years. During that time, they are subject to a more rigorous limit of penalty points, and if they breach that they will lose their full licence. I have not seen the film that the noble Lord refers to but will certainly give that some thought.
Lord Swire (Con)
Granted, the priority must be to deal with the backlog of young people taking their driving test, in order to increase their productivity, but is it not also time to look again at the basic driving test, whereby a young person can pass and drive away from that test for the first time on either a motorway or in the dark?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The Government and their agency are working extremely hard to reduce the backlog of driving test appointments, but it is also quite clear that people should be ready for the test at the time that they present themselves to take it. The department’s THINK! campaign, which is a road safety campaign, is aimed primarily at young men aged 17 to 24. It focuses on a number of priority issues, all of which would help to reduce death and serious injury both to that category and to other road users.
Baroness Pidgeon (LD)
My Lords, given the significant increase in low-powered motorcycles and scooters being ridden on L-plates for food deliveries, what plans do the Government have to strengthen the compulsory basic training for motorcyclists to improve road safety?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The Government are, of course, completely committed to ensuring that motorcyclists are equipped with the specialist skills necessary to stay safe on the road. I will write to the noble Baroness with further details of what might be proposed in the future to improve the competence of motorcycle drivers.
Lord Dubs (Lab)
My Lords, is the Minister sympathetic to the argument that there are quite a number of older drivers who are driving beyond the point when they are fit to be safe on the roads—
Lord Dubs (Lab)
Nobody here.
Could that be dealt with? Granted, there is a difficulty in having enough driving tests at the moment, but would it not be a good aim for people, say, over the age of 75 to do a driving test again every couple of years?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I thank my noble friend. I am afraid I am already one of those people who is subject to the more rigorous requirements; as a vocational licence holder over the age of 70, I have to have a medical every year. The current driving licence arrangements take into account the risks that an individual poses to road safety. They are designed to be fair and proportionate to all drivers who remain fit and competent to drive, regardless of age.
Lord McLoughlin (Con)
Will the Government, while acknowledging that there may be a case for a graduated driving licence, also look at the issues which cause most of the accidents on our roads and perhaps look again at the penalties that are there for using the phone while driving?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for that thought, and of course he has great experience in this matter. The Government are very conscious of the principal reasons for fatalities and serious injuries, and I will certainly take away the thought that we should look further at driving while using a mobile phone, but the existing penalties for this and their enforcement are very stringent.
Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)
My Lords, on the subject of driving test dates, what steps will the Government take to prevent the exploitation of learner drivers who are unable to get a date through the conventional route and have to use these dodgy websites that buy dates in bulk and then sell them off at a massively inflated price?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
The Government would completely agree that it is quite wrong that people should need to use what were referred to as “dodgy websites”—which is obviously a technical term. The Driver & Vehicle Standards Agency has closed down several hundred of those websites by enforcing more strictly the rules by which people can obtain driving tests. The correct way to obtain a driving test is, first, for a learner driver to prepare so that the date that they select is a date when they can pass and, secondly, to do it through the DVSA website or through the helpline.
Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)
My Lords, I draw attention to my interests. One of the issues for young drivers is the enormous cost of insurance, and the insurance industry would like to help address that. Therefore, a probation period or maybe zero alcohol for the first five years or until a certain age might be a way to help insurance companies to produce better rates for young drivers, for whom a car can be essential for work. Would the Minister agree to look at a range of possibilities, so that we can keep young people on the road more safely?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
Of course, we all agree that insurance is necessary and that its costs have been rising. Indeed, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport has instituted a review, with the aid of the industry, about the cost of insurance. There are a number of ideas to help young drivers obtain insurance, some of which need great thought to make sure that they are enforceable. The primary way that they can get insurance and remain safe is to practise for the test properly, to take the test, to be successful and then to drive with the same safety that we want of everybody on the roads.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, I return to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Pidgeon. The Minister replied as if she had asked a question about motorcycles but, unless I misunderstood, she asked as much about electrically powered bicycles used for deliveries as about motorcycles. Does the Minister agree that the licensing system has now become completely incoherent? In some cases, electrically powered bicycles are more powerful than smaller motorcycles, yet the driver of one requires a licence and the driver of the other does not. Will the Minister agree to a wholesale review of the system, as it is breaking down?
Lord Hendy of Richmond Hill (Lab)
I would say that the driving licence system is not breaking down. We are seeing new cycles, some of which are not in fact cycles. If they are adapted to do more than 15.5 miles an hour, they are not cycles and should be subject to the licensing regulations for motor vehicles and motorcycles. That definition is clear. However, a number of users are adapting these bicycles illegally, turning them into vehicles but not subjecting themselves to proper licensing. It will have to be for the enforcement authorities to find and catch those people, as some of them have done.