15:11 - The House having divided: - Ayes: 275 / Noes: 179 - Question accordingly agreed to.
The Minister for Policing and the Fire Service (Brandon Lewis)
I beg to move,
That the Police Grant Report (England and Wales) for 2017–18 (HC 944), which was laid before this House on 1 February, be approved.
In addition to seeking approval of the police grant report, I think it is right to outline the context in which we find it, as it covers the continuation of our work of seeing through police reform and of working with the sector. This funding settlement provides fair and stable funding for the police and enables essential policing reform and transformation to go further and faster, so that we ensure that we help the vulnerable, cut crime and support our communities.
In December, I proposed a stable and fair funding settlement for the police in 2017-18. Today, I am seeking this House’s approval for the settlement. Last year, we protected police spending when precept is taken into account, and I am pleased to say that the 2017-18 police funding settlement maintains that protection for police spending.
Overall Government funding allocated to the police is £8.497 billion—exactly as announced in the 2015 spending review. On 15 December, I laid before the House the provisional police grant report for 2017-18, along with a written ministerial statement that set out the Government’s proposed allocations to local policing bodies in England and Wales and opened a consultation. After careful consideration of the consultation responses, we have decided that force-level allocations will remain as announced in December. I still believe that providing stable funding, including local precept, is the right approach.
Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab)
I am concerned that the Minister may have inadvertently misled the House. He said that he has been able to protect police budgets in real terms once the precept is taken into account, but that is not the case with Greater Manchester police. They still had to cut frontline policing even though they used the full precept power. Will the Minister now correct the record?
Brandon Lewis
The right hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that Greater Manchester is a good example of a force that has managed to increase its reserves. We should be clear that, across the sector, the police—including Greater Manchester police—have increased their reserves by more than £400 million. The reality is that for policing, when precept is taken into account, we are delivering on the spending review statement that the police funding settlement maintains protection for police spending. I reiterate that statement.
Our police forces do a great job and need funding to support their vital work. So-called traditional crimes have fallen by a third since 2010 to a record low. Families and communities are safer as a result. The police have helped to deliver radical changes, including direct democratic accountability and transparency through the introduction of police and crime commissioners; the introduction of the College of Policing as the professional body for everyone in policing; cutting through bureaucracy and stripping away national targets; and increased collaboration among police leaders up and down the country to make savings, pool resources and provide a better service to the public.
Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)
I am not sure whether people in London will recognise the rosy picture that the Minister is painting. The Government are making £1 billion of savings. Does the Minister intend to shift more money away from London, as was planned in 2015—up to another £700 million? Will he fund the national and international capital city grant properly? That is £172 million short. With the Mayor, the Home Secretary is appointing a new commissioner. The Minister must realise that there are special responsibilities in London, which the Government should engage with.
Brandon Lewis
This statement is as per the written ministerial statement in December; I think that the hon. Gentleman is referring to our review of the police funding formula. That work is ongoing and the Metropolitan police is involved in it. I was with the Mayor this morning, and I do not recognise the figure of £700 million just mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. I have spent quite a lot of time with the Mayor in the past couple of days, addressing the issue of the new commissioner, and he has not yet outlined that figure to me. I look forward to hearing more about where the hon. Gentleman has come across that figure.
The 2017-18 police funding settlement provides stable and fair funding for PCCs to spend locally.
Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)
The Minister is making a lot of sense on this issue. As he will know, Bedfordshire, from a financial point of view, is one of the most structurally challenged police authorities. However, Kathryn Holloway, the police and crime commissioner, has found enough resources to put 100 new police officers on the frontline, so we can do very good things to increase frontline policing within this settlement. However, will the Minister tell us a little more about the timing of the review of the funding formula? That will make a big difference for Bedfordshire.
Brandon Lewis
As my hon. Friend will appreciate, I am not in a position at the moment to outline what the new funding formula will look like—that work is still ongoing—but I am happy to give him a flavour of where we are on timing. My hon. Friend makes a good point. Police forces around the country have done really good and interesting work on reform, which is why the number of officers spending more time on the frontline has gone up by a few per cent. in the past few years. That is a good thing because we are using our resources properly in ensuring that our uniformed police officers are on the frontline working with and for their communities.
Some really good work is going on. As well as meeting the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime, I have met the Bedfordshire PCC and chief constable to talk about some of the changes that they face, particularly as a county that has rural work as well as the focus of an urban centre in Luton. There are really good examples in Bedfordshire and elsewhere of how police forces work with other forces, as Bedfordshire does as part of the seven, and other agencies—the fire brigade, ambulance services and other public sector bodies—to bring about operational benefits that can bring savings and a better service for local communities.
Rishi Sunak (Richmond (Yorks)) (Con)
I thank the Minister for his engagement with the North Yorkshire PCC on exactly these issues and the challenges of rural policing. May I urge him to consider the recommendations of his Department’s technical reference group, which has concluded that population is the best predictor of police demand and should therefore be a key part of any future funding formula for rural areas?
Brandon Lewis
I thank my hon. Friend for his comment. I am happy to be engaging with the excellent PCCs in both Bedfordshire and North Yorkshire—the latter’s being Julia Mulligan, whom I saw earlier this week. She is another good example of a PCC working to deliver for the frontline and looking for savings to make sure that even better and wider services can be delivered for local communities.
I come back to the timeline, mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller), and will cover the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Rishi Sunak) about the technical reference group. Two groups are working through the issue. Academics, police and crime commissioners, and chief constables are working on it.
I am grateful to all the PCCs and chief constables who have taken time to be involved, feed into the work and come to see me. I have an open-door policy for anyone who wants to put forward ideas for the group. On the timeline, I have been clear from the beginning: this is a big, important piece of work and it is important that we get it right. Rather than setting timelines, I want to let the groups do their work and report to us. We will then have to make decisions on how to take things forward. I am keen for the work to get done, but I do not want to pressure the groups with a specific timeframe. Hon. Members will have to bear with us on that. It is important that we take the time to get this right, rather than rushing to get it implemented.
Jo Churchill (Bury St Edmunds) (Con)
Although it is said that sparsity and rurality will be taken into account, may I push the Minister once again? He has been kind with his time when we have discussed the issue, but this is important for our area. If the allocation is made just on the basis of population, Suffolk will get £3 million less than Norfolk, although they are very similar counties that the Minister knows very well.
Brandon Lewis
The Suffolk PCC and chief constable have lobbied me on that issue—in fact, the Suffolk PCC came in the past week or two to make that very point. There is a piece of work to do at the moment. The technical reference group and senior group will work through the issues and make those recommendations to us. I will not prejudge the outcome; it is right to let them and the experts do their work on what the fundamentals should be.
The settlement also includes extra resources for national programmes including the transformation fund, which enables forces to undertake essential policing reform. Last year, we provided a planning assumption to the House to help PCCs. We are meeting our planning assumption for stable force-level funding. That means that every PCC who maximises their local precept income this year and in 2017-18 will receive at least the same direct resource funding in cash that they received in 2015-16.
I can also report to the House that local council tax precept income has increased faster than expected. That means that we can not only meet our planning assumption on stable local funding for PCCs but increase our national investment in police reform and transformation faster than expected. That will ensure that police leaders are given the tools to support reform, and the capability to respond to the changing nature of crime and to protect the vulnerable.
Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)
I hope that the Minister agrees that Durham has an outstanding Labour PCC in Ron Hogg and a first-rate chief constable, who is working hard not only to drive up standards but to make the force more efficient. Does the Minister recognise that forces such as Durham’s are hindered when it comes to raising the precept? Some 55% of properties in Durham are in band A, so an increase there would not generate a great deal of cash compared with what Surrey or somewhere else would receive.
Brandon Lewis
I recognise that Durham has a very good police force with an excellent chief constable. I met the chief constable and PCC pretty recently when they came to outline some of the points that the hon. Gentleman has just made. There are differences around the country and we must recognise that different areas will have different abilities to raise money locally according to the precept and their council tax base. The hon. Gentleman is right. I represent a constituency in which about 80% of properties fall into the lower council tax bands, so I fully appreciate his point. But the funding settlement is not the only source of money for police forces.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
The Minister is making sensible observations about the changing profile of crime and rural considerations, but will he think about the nature of crime and how it is different in rural areas? In agricultural areas outside Salisbury, there are crimes such as hare coursing. Difficult policing jobs that require police presence cannot be offset with technology. That must be understood in this review.
Brandon Lewis
My hon. Friend, as always, makes a very good point that outlines one of the realities of the way in which policing is changing. That is why it is important to have local decision making in policing, with locally accountable police and crime commissioners who understand the needs of their local areas and are able to direct their resources where they need them based on the demands of their area.
Brandon Lewis
I want to make some more progress.
This year, we created the police transformation fund—the grant settlement is not the only source of money for policing—which has already provided investment to develop specialist capabilities to tackle cybercrime and other emerging crimes, and has provided a major uplift in firearms capability and capacity. The fund will increase by £40 million next year to £175 million. We will continue to allocate additional specific funding for counter-terrorism to ensure that critical national counter-terrorism capabilities are maintained. Counter-terrorism police funding continues to be protected and, in fact, will increase to £675 million in 2017-18. That reinforces our commitment to protect the public from the threat of terrorism. The House and the public can be in no doubt that the police will have the resources they need to do their crucial work, and will be given the investment necessary to provide a more modern and efficient police service.
James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)
I think my right hon. Friend will agree that we have the most professional armed police officers in the world. The statistics on fatalities bear that out. Does he agree that forces outside London must upscale their armed capacity to match the level that we have in London in view of the terror threat that affects the whole country?
Brandon Lewis
This comes back to the point that it is important that local police and crime commissioners, working with their chief constables, are able to assess the operational needs for their area and to work across policing. The National Police Chiefs Council is doing very well in ensuring that police forces are working across areas, and that chief constables are working together for the benefit of the country. The Metropolitan police has a big part to play in that, being such a large part of policing in this country.
Brandon Lewis
No, I want to make some progress.
There is a lot for the police to be proud of. However, Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary’s police effectiveness, efficiency and legitimacy report this year raised a concern that some forces may have eased up on the pace of reform in the past year. The clear challenge from us to police leaders is to ensure that this is not the case in 2017-18 and, after talking to them, I think it is a challenge that they will relish. Maintaining funding should not mean that police leaders take their foot off the gas.
I assure the House that the Government will play their part to support forces to transform and become more efficient. I will update the House on the steps we are taking to give the police the tools they need to transform themselves. As I mentioned earlier, we are increasing the size of the transformation fund by more than £40 million, which will enable additional investment in cross-force specialist capabilities, exploiting new technology, driving efficiency and improving how we respond to changing threats.
The first year of the fund has demonstrated that it is supporting and incentivising policing to meet future challenges by being more efficient and effective, and building capability and capacity to respond to a changing mix in crime, as my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) outlined. The key to the success of this work is that it is sector led, through the Police Reform and Transformation Board; this is the police service transforming itself to meet the demands of the future, using tools provided by this Government.
Brandon Lewis
Not at the moment.
With the foundations of the police-led process firmly in place, more can now be done to develop compelling investment proposals at scale. The fund should continue to allow the best ideas from across policing for transformational change to be developed and delivered.
In 2017-18, we will invest a further £32 million to continue a major uplift in firearms capability and capacity so that we can respond quickly and forcefully to any firearms attack. I expect to see ambitious proposals, endorsed by the National Crime Agency, to go further and increase our capability to tackle serious and organised crime, which is a growing, dynamic and diverse national security threat that costs the United Kingdom at least £24 billion a year. It leads to loss of life, preys on the vulnerable, creates negative role models in our communities and can deprive people of their security and prosperity. But we cannot simply rely on extra funding to drive police reform. We need to ensure that police forces have the right legislative tools to do the job and improve efficiency.
Mr Kevan Jones
I thank the Minister for finally giving way. I am sure that he is aware that Durham is the most outstanding police force in the UK for efficiency. Why has that not been rewarded in the settlement? For example, changes to the funding formula this year mean that the force in Durham will have £700,000 less in its budget than it had last year.
Brandon Lewis
I am slightly surprised by the hon. Gentleman’s opening comment because I have already accepted an intervention from him, along with many other interventions. He has actually made a good case for exactly why it is important that we do this police funding formula review—to ensure that we get a formula that is not based on the one that has been in place for decades and that many police forces are very unhappy with. We will deliver on our manifesto pledge to deliver a fair funding formula for police.
Andy Burnham
The public all over the country are noticing a reduction in visibility of neighbourhood policing and in responsiveness by the police. They will struggle to match what they see on the ground with the complacent statements that have been made in the House today. Let me remind the Minister—we need accuracy on this because police officers on the front line deserve it—that the promise of the 2015 spending review was “real-terms protection” for the police throughout this Parliament. Has he met that promise, yes or no?
Brandon Lewis
As I have already outlined twice to the right hon. Gentleman, we have met the promise of the spending review. Police and crime commissioners who maximise their precept are in the same position. No matter how many times he asks the same question, he will get the same answer. I give way to the hon. Member for Preston (Mr Hendrick).
Brandon Lewis
I am sorry, if the hon. Gentleman will excuse me, I could not quite hear what the right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham) said. Would he like to intervene and outline that for us?
Mr Speaker
Order. I did not hear anything said that was out of order. If I did not hear it, I cannot act on it. At this point, the hon. Member for Preston (Mr Hendrick) is intervening, so we will hear that. If somebody wants to raise a point of order or whatever, he or she is free to do so, but I cannot comment on something that I did not hear.
Mr Hendrick
When the Chancellor announced in 2016 that police budgets would continue to be protected in cash terms assuming council tax was maximised, I—like many others—welcomed the news. Last year’s cuts to grant funding were a uniform 0.6% and this year’s provisional settlement outlined a further 1.3% cut to direct resource funding. How does that square with what the Minister said?
Brandon Lewis
I can only repeat what I said earlier: last year, we protected police spending when the precept is taken into account. The overall level of government funding allocated to police is exactly as announced in the 2015 spending review at £8.497 billion.
I am delighted that the Policing and Crime Act 2017 received Royal Assent on 31 January because it allows us to ensure that we are working towards implementing many provisions that will further help policing to reform and deliver in the future. The Act ensures that collaboration between police forces and with other public services to better tackle emerging threats can go further and faster, providing efficiencies to ensure that money is spent on the frontline delivering for the communities in which the police work. There is substantial evidence showing that closer collaboration between the emergency services can improve public safety, secure more efficient services and deliver better value for money for taxpayers.
Sir Oliver Letwin (West Dorset) (Con)
My right hon. Friend knows that I strongly support his efforts to get collaboration and more efficiency. Does he accept, however, that these reviews of formulae very often do not take into account the capacity of different kinds of forces to make changes? Large urban authorities have huge capacity to make changes, but it is much more difficult for small rural police forces. Will he ensure that that is taken into account in the review?
Brandon Lewis
My right hon. Friend makes a good point. I assure him that we are looking at all those factors as we work through the process. It is so important that the police chief constables, the police and crime commissioners and other parties are doing solid work on the ground to ensure that the process is fully informed. I have no doubt that we will be debating that in the House in due course.
Police and crime commissioners and chief constables are already collaborating to make savings and pool resources to improve effectiveness, without sacrificing local accountability and identity. That is a credit to them.
Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con)
My right hon. Friend is making a cogent case, as he usually does. I encourage him to proceed in the way in which he has outlined because my local constabulary, Cambridgeshire, is working on things such as firearms, forensics, dogs and homicide, and it has become much more efficient. For example, the tragic Joanna Dennehy murders of two or three years ago would not have been solved as expeditiously as they were without cross-county collaboration between several police forces.
Brandon Lewis
My hon. Friend is right. I met his chief constable and police and crime commissioner only this week and they showed me some of the excellent work being done there. It is one of the forces that is really driving forward and working to make sure that it delivers on the opportunities that the Act gives it to bring together the fire service and police force to create even further efficiencies and, importantly, better outcomes for residents in future.
Andy Slaughter
Efficiency has increased, but that can take us only so far. My borough is paying for an extra 50 police officers. Londoners are paying £61 in their council tax every year just to make up for the shortfall in the money that should be given to cover national events such as the planned visit of the President of the United States. Will the Minister guarantee that, when he looks further at funding, he will consider what local and regional authorities are contributing at the moment?
Brandon Lewis
I agree that it is important that as we go through the review work we look at the functions in a capital city that are different from those in other parts of the country. We do pay extra money into London, but we also have to bear in mind that London’s Metropolitan police is by far the best funded force in the country, accounting for just over 25% of all police funding. It is a very, very well-funded police force.
Brandon Lewis
Not at the moment—I will make some progress.
We are making sure, through the Act, that we support greater collaboration. To do this, the Act contains provisions to enable police and crime commissioners to take on responsibility for local fire and rescue services, where the local case is made. This means that we can maximise the benefits of joint working between policing and fire services at a local level, drive innovative reform, and bring the same direct accountability to fire as exists for policing.
The police funding settlement for 2017-18 is not impacted by the ongoing police core grant distribution review, as the settlement retains the approach to distribution that we have used in recent years.
John Glen
Does my right hon. Friend acknowledge that the situation will be different in different places? Wiltshire and Dorset recently went through a consolidation of the fire service into one entity. Another organisational change would not be welcome, because that would mean more money being spent on that reorganisation when we have just had one in the fire service. This needs to be done carefully, county by county.
Brandon Lewis
My hon. Friend makes a very good point that highlights why it is important that this is driven locally. The Act is an enabling power, not a mandatory one. He is absolutely right that his own local PCC and the adjoining PCC are looking at how they can be more involved in the governance of fire without necessarily changing the excellent work that was done to find savings in the past year or so.
Some hon. Members have mentioned the core distribution review. While I am talking about police funding on the current formula for this year, it would be remiss of me not to outline that review a bit further and answer a few of the questions about it, as there is clearly widespread interest. We are continuing the process of detailed engagement. Under an open door policy, I am meeting all PCCs and forces who wish to discuss this issue. I can also assure the House that no new funding arrangements will be put in place without a full, proper public consultation.
I want to re-emphasise that the 2017-18 police funding settlement provides fair and stable funding for police forces. It increases funding for the police transformation fund to ensure that police leaders have been given the tools to support reform and the capabilities that they need to be able to respond to the changing nature of crime. We are protecting police spending and meeting our commitment to finish the job of police reform so that we are able to make sure that we, and the police, are helping the vulnerable, cutting crime and supporting our communities. I commend this motion to the House.
Brandon Lewis
This has been an excellent debate, and I am grateful to all Members who have contributed over the past hour or two. We have actually secured a fair funding settlement for the police, and I note the comments about the police funding formula review work that we are going forward with. I am pleased to hear that the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) will support us in getting that done, but I am slightly curious why the Labour party never did it when they were in government. Opposition Members have talked as though there was no kind of budget deficit at any point. They sometimes forget the mess—[Interruption.]
Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab)
Will the Minister give way?
Brandon Lewis
No, I will not give way to the hon. Gentleman, who has not contributed to the debate until now.
Opposition Members forget about the economic mess that the Labour Government left for the Conservative-led Government to deal with. The reality is that the Government have kept the real-terms protection promise that we outlined in the 2015 spending review. Taking into account the Government grant, the precept and reallocations such as the police transformation fund, the 2015 spending review forecasted—let me be clear about the numbers, because Opposition Members really have not been—total spending in 2017-18 of £11.783 billion. With the precept to maximise, the settlement proposes a higher total of some £11.804 billion.
Looking at 2015-16 to 2017-18, no police force across the country that uses its precept will see any reduction whatsoever. The right hon. Member for Leigh (Andy Burnham), who said a lot from a sedentary position and intervened earlier but chose not to make a speech, talked about Greater Manchester but forgot to point out that the force will see an increase from £541 million to over £543 million. Police and crime commissioners and police forces across the country have seen their reserves increase by more than £400 million over the past few years. Putting aside what those increases may be used for, they have had fund surpluses in the past few years to build up reserves in the first place. I look forward to police forces using those reserves wisely in efficiency work in the years ahead. As Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary set out, there is still considerable scope for forces to continue to improve their efficiency and to transform how they operate. It is vital that that pace and urgency of change continues and goes faster if we are to ensure that our police forces are fit to meet the challenges of the 21st century.
I thank my hon. Friends the Members for South Dorset (Richard Drax) and for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) for their contributions, which rightly outlined the importance of transparency. The hon. Member for Preston (Mr Hendrick) mentioned the formula review, and I can tell him that there will be a full public consultation. Police and crime commissioners, including Lancashire’s, and chief constables are contributing to the work that is under way, and I have been and am willing to meet them all. He talks about things being shrouded in mystery, but he may think that because he has not been talking to police and crime commissioners and chief constables in the way that we have.
Brandon Lewis
I am not going to take an intervention from somebody who was not involved in the debate.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)
Order. The hon. Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson) must surely understand that those of us who have been in the Chamber these past two hours know that he did not take part in the debate and has not been in the Chamber. I hope that he will not seek to intervene again.
Brandon Lewis
It is important that the consultation work goes ahead, and we will do it properly. The police service has asked us to do it methodically and properly, not to take the rushed approach that Opposition Members have implied that they would support.
I commend the police grant report to the House. It provides stable funding for forces and extra funding for transformation, and it should leave the House absolutely clear that police in England and Wales will have the resources they need to continue to protect the public.
Question put.
The House proceeded to a Division.
Madam Deputy Speaker
I remind the House that the motion is subject to double-majority voting: of the whole House and of Members representing constituencies in England and Wales.