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Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to speak in this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson.
The schools White Paper “The Importance of Teaching” announced a review to determine how to support schools to improve the quality of teaching in personal, social, health and economic education, PSHE, including giving teachers the flexibility to use their judgment on how best to deliver it. In launching the review, the then Minister with responsibility for schools, the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb), said that Ofsted had reported some weaknesses in the schools visited. Although PSHE was judged to be good to outstanding in three quarters of the schools, the report noted that pupils needed more knowledge and better understanding in education on relationships, drugs and alcohol, and mental and emotional health.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
From her experience as a member of the Health Committee, will my hon. Friend say something about the role that PSHE might play in ensuring that young people in this country are as healthy as possible?
Barbara Keeley
That is an important point, and I will come on to it. The PSHE Association has argued for the following key education themes to be included: health, relationships, careers and the world of work and personal finance. The consultation on the Government’s review finished on 30 November 2011. Will the Minister tell us when we can expect to see a revised programme of study for PSHE? On 9 January, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) received an answer to a question on drugs education telling her:
“Revised draft programmes of study…will be sent out for consultation in due course and consultation responses received will be taken into account before final programmes of study are published later this year.”—[Official Report, 9 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 341W.]
May we have more clarity on dates for those revised draft programmes?
I would like to focus mainly on relationship education, which is a key issue in my constituency and for Salford as a local authority, because teenage pregnancy rates are a continuing concern for us. The latest published statistics show that the teenage conception rate in Salford is 57 conceptions per 1,000 young women. That is higher than the north-west region, which has a conception rate of 40 per 1,000, and considerably higher than England and Wales, which have a rate of 35 per 1,000. The latest figure for Salford is the highest in Greater Manchester and, depressingly, it is more than three points higher than the previous year’s figure. That is a clear issue for Salford, because it goes against the national trend. In Salford, the teenage conception rate has declined by only 3% since 1998, while in the north-west the rate reduced by 11% and in England and Wales the reduction was almost 16%. What that means in human terms, which is the most important thing, is that since 1998, between 215 and 250 young women under 18 in Salford have become pregnant in any one year, and 130 to 185 babies are born to mothers in that young age group in any year.
When action to reduce teenage pregnancy rates in Salford seemed to have stalled in 2007, the council’s children’s services scrutiny committee commissioned an inquiry into the extent and effectiveness of relationship education in our schools and colleges. The inquiry report commented:
“Teenage pregnancy is a serious social problem. Having children at a young age can damage young women’s health and well-being and severely limit their education and career prospects. While individual young people can be competent parents, all the evidence shows that children born to teenagers are much more likely to experience a range of negative outcomes in later life.”
The inquiry sent a survey questionnaire to all schools and colleges in Salford. It found that where the teaching of PSHE was not seen as a priority, the delivery of relationship education was not as effective.
Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)
I apologise for the fact that I cannot stay for the whole debate, but I am very pleased that it is taking place. Does my hon. Friend agree that an important factor to consider is the quality of teacher training? One reason why teaching may not be good in schools, or why the subject may not be given priority, is that teachers do not feel confident about talking about relationships, including, of course, same-sex relationships.
Barbara Keeley
Indeed, and that is my next point. The Salford inquiry found that schools were patchy in the take-up of their role in relationship education. In responses to the survey, schools cited “more training for staff” as a key improvement area, but the inquiry found that some schools, even in areas that were hotspots for teenage conception, were unable or unwilling to release teachers for the continuing professional development PSHE course. Another important point is that very few school governors had taken up the responsibility to oversee the delivery of relationship education in their school, and very few had taken on the available training. My hon. Friend is quite right.
The inquiry concluded that direction from Government was needed to make relationship education
“a consistent and compulsory part of the national curriculum.”
The inquiry in Salford was a valuable piece of work, but the situation in relationship education has sadly not improved since. The proposed clauses in Labour’s Children and Families Bill that would have made PSHE, including one year of relationship education, compulsory were lost in the legislation “wash-up” process before the 2010 general election, because Conservative Front Benchers and the usual channels were unable to agree to those provisions.
Funding sources that we used to fund work on teenage pregnancy have not been replaced. The 2007 inquiry report makes quite sad reading, because it envisaged the council being able to continue funding teenage pregnancy projects once grant funding ceased, with schools in teenage conception hotspots also providing matched funding. However, Salford city council has been the subject of budget cuts amounting to £90 million over three years since 2010, so extra funding for teenage pregnancy projects seems a forlorn hope.
That matters because we know that nationally the infant mortality rate for babies born to teenage mothers is 60% higher than for babies born to older mothers; children of teenage mothers are generally at increased risk of poverty, low educational attainment, poor housing and poor health, and they have lower rates of economic activity in their adult lives; and teenage mothers are less likely to finish their education and more likely to bring up their children alone and in poverty. We also know—this is why we are so concerned—that rates of teenage pregnancy are highest among deprived communities, so the negative consequences of teenage pregnancy are disproportionately concentrated among those who are already disadvantaged. Those are all powerful reasons for action.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
The hon. Lady makes a powerful case for the importance of a mandatory element of PSHE teaching in our schools. Does she agree that PSHE teaching should be broader, incorporating matters such as gender equality and challenging gender stereotypes, which have an impact on young women’s aspirations? Does she also agree that it should be statutory for PSHE teaching to address violence against women?
Barbara Keeley
I will come on to that in a moment, but if relationship education is done well it can cover many aspects. Domestic violence is a very important aspect, because not only do the communities I have mentioned experience poverty and disadvantage, but frequently in families in those communities, very young children see violence.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
I congratulate the hon. Lady on securing the debate. In addition to issues such as gender equality, domestic violence and teenage pregnancy, which are all significant, does she agree that one of our significant problems is how to engender in all our young people—not just our girls—a sense of self-confidence and security in themselves? Does she agree that that should be a critical component of any good relationship education?
Barbara Keeley
Indeed, and although I am talking about teenage conception affecting girls and young women, the involvement of boys and young men is important too. Beyond the serious issue that I have mentioned of teenage pregnancy, there are new concerns about how young people can be protected from adults who want to groom them for sex or adults who abuse and assault young people, as in the horrific allegations made against Jimmy Savile. Relationship education can equip children with the knowledge and the skills to understand what constitutes inappropriate behaviour from an adult, it can help children to resist pressure from adults who want to harm them, and it can inform children about how to get help and support when they need it.
The National Children’s Bureau feels that PSHE is key to safeguarding children. The PSHE Association says that
“the most important safeguard against grooming and abuse is that young people are equipped to understand what is appropriate and what is not and to develop strategies to stop that abuse.”
The association feels that PSHE is an ideal forum to explore these issues. Equipping children to understand if they are at risk or if they have already been a victim of such exploitation is a primary line of defence against such behaviour. Of course, these issues cannot be dealt with in an ad hoc way, and the importance of training has already been highlighted. This sort of education needs to provided through regular timetabled sessions, delivered by trained staff.
Evidence also points to the important role that PSHE can play in ending or reducing bullying in schools, and this includes work with young carers. In Salford, we are fortunate to have an excellent young carers project. It works in a number of our schools to identify and support young carers, and to develop awareness of the role of children and young people who are carers. Recently, Salford Young Carers has worked with the Lowry theatre to produce a DVD for schools to build awareness of the issues faced by young carers in school. It is entitled, “I am not different, I just do different things”, and I can get lots of copies, so if anyone here is interested in seeing it, I am very willing to make it available.
Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con)
In addition to what happens in schools in planned PSHE lessons, may I ask the hon. Lady to reflect on the importance of popular media, such as the radio and magazines that young people have? I would also suggest that people can learn a lot from the way we reduced drink-driving among young people. That was achieved not only by formal lessons at school but by giving people strategies to allow them to avoid drink-driving.
Of course, we must remember that every week between 6,000 and 7,000 people—not just teenagers—contribute to a conception that ends in a termination. Most of those terminations are avoidable if people just use the language that, at the time, prevents them from doing something that will have consequences that they do not really want.
Barbara Keeley
Indeed. That is the confidence we want to build up.
I was talking about Salford Young Carers and the fabulous DVD that it has produced, so let me get back to the treatment of young carers in schools. The DVD shows the type of caring tasks that young carers take on, how caring affects their performance at school and how it means they cannot take part in activities that other young people have time to engage in. We are fortunate in Salford to have that work being done in our schools, but of course the project is limited by resource constraints. Surprisingly, the project’s staff have also encountered barriers, including a school saying, “We don’t have any young carers,” which most of us will understand is highly unlikely. A dismissive attitude to young carers is also unfair, because many of them are likely to be shouldering practical, emotional and financial responsibilities that are normally taken on only by adults.
Clearly young carers need to be identified and then supported. On 7 September 2012, I introduced a private Member’s Bill in the House, the Social Care (Local Sufficiency) and Identification of Carers Bill; there are a couple of supporters of that Bill here today. On identification, my Bill contained a provision that a local authority must ensure that both the authority itself and the schools within its control have in place a policy that both identifies young carers and makes arrangements to support pupils who are young carers. I commend that provision in my Bill to the Minister, who might just have been in her new role at the time that I introduced the Bill. It is crucial that schools and local authorities across the country do more to identify and support young carers.
I have talked briefly about personal, social, health and economic education and what it could enable schools to provide. As I have just touched on, it could enable support to be provided for young carers and the understanding of their caring role, which often entails taking on practical, emotional and financial responsibilities. It could help action to prevent or reduce bullying in schools. It could help to safeguard children against grooming for sex and attention from or assaults by paedophiles. As I mentioned in the main part of my speech, it could equip girls and young women with the knowledge and skills to avoid unwanted teenage conception. It could give all young people the information and values to enable them to have safe and fulfilling relationships. All those things are beneficial outcomes and very strong reasons to put personal, social, health and economic education on a statutory footing within the national curriculum.
There have been other calls from MPs for elements of the PSHE curriculum to be made compulsory, and I think that there are MPs here today who may talk about those elements. There has been a call for statutory financial literacy education from the all-party group on financial education for young people. A cross-party group of MPs has called for for relationship education to be made statutory—that relates to the subject of teenage pregnancies. There has also been a call, which I am sure we will hear about, for compulsory lessons on body image by the all-party group on body image, as well as a call for a commitment to provide effective drugs education from the Home Affairs Committee in its report, “Drugs: Breaking the Cycle”.
Failing to make important subjects compulsory within the curriculum will mean that some schools’ delivery of education on those vital subjects will be patchy at best, or non-existent at worst. It is time that all our pupils benefited from PSHE subjects being taught as effectively as possible.
John Robertson (in the Chair)
There are quite a few Members standing who have not forwarded their names. If we have time, we will try to get more people in, but I have a list of Members who submitted their names and they must be given the opportunity to speak first. Having said that, if the Members who are called to speak could look at the time they are taking to speak, that would be most helpful.
Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this debate and on the work that she has done on the subject for some time. I am pleased to see so many hon. Members in Westminster Hall today to discuss this subject. In fact, I am surprised that there are so many Members here. Sometimes, I come to Westminster Hall and limited numbers of Members are present for a debate, so it is very encouraging that so many Members are here at this point in the morning to discuss this subject.
I should perhaps explain my initial connection with this topic: both my parents are teachers. In fact, my mother was responsible for PSHE in the secondary school that I attended, so if there are any failings in my skills in dealing with life, I suppose that I will probably have to take them up with her on two levels, and take the pain of that. However, it gave me a commitment to explain how important PSHE is. My mother dealt with Cornwall county council in those days, talking about the importance of the PSHE element in the curriculum. In fact, when she started dealing with the subject it was actually called “personal, social and moral education”, which perhaps gives an idea of what the subject was like in the early part of the ’80s; there was a slightly different twist to it.
The hon. Lady has focused on relationship education as something that is crucial, and it is very important to me, too. I remember that when I first stood for Parliament I was at the hustings—it was one of that type of “churches together” hustings—and a question came up about sex on television and whether it was a bad thing. Being a politician, I turned the question into something important to me, which is talking about relationships. I said that what I found far more insidious is that all that young people hear all the time, from soap operas and so on, is about relationships failing. Let us be honest—it is done that way because it is a story and that is what soap operas are about. There are very few examples of relationships that actually make it and that work and are successful. That is perhaps a sadder issue. The mechanics of sex being on television are such that the cues that young people pick up—they also pick them up from wider society, celebrity magazines and so on—are all about how relationships are exciting things to start and exciting things to end, and sometimes it is the work of keeping them going that is far more difficult to deal with.
As the hon. Lady said, there are many campaigns for elements or aspects of the curriculum that could come under PSHE; hon. Members have argued strongly for their inclusion in PSHE. However, it is also important that we do not take those elements and put them in some sort of silo and say that this is something that we tuck into a corner of the curriculum and forget about. Those elements must also inform what goes on in education as a whole.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Is not the point about the situation now that PSHE is precisely tucked into a silo of science? The only part that pupils are required to learn about in school is sexually transmitted infections and how to have sex, and that is a kind of advertising manual rather than a proper sex and relationship education that might enable, for instance, girls to have so much self-worth that they want to delay their first sexual experience and that might bring boys into the equation, so that they understand that sex is not only a recreation but might also be part of a strong and fulfilling relationship.
Dan Rogerson
Absolutely. I agree with the hon. Gentleman, although boys, too, might well want to delay their first sexual experience, rather than just girls. I think that we sometimes get caught up in a “boys are from Mars, girls are from Venus” view, and there is a difference in the way that we deal with the two. In fact, I think that a lot of the issues, concerns and disquiet that young people might have about some of these issues will be shared by both boys and girls.
Of course, as the hon. Lady said they are also issues about drug and alcohol abuse, as well as strategies for managing and dealing with exposure to drugs and alcohol. The hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter Bottomley) made a point about how campaigns, such as those on drink-driving, have been successful in the past. General issues of mental health and well-being are incredibly important, too. As the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) said, sometimes some of these things are incredibly important to young people in their development but difficult for them to express and engage with. They carry those feelings around with them day to day, but they find it difficult to confront them. In extreme cases, that can lead to self-harm or suicide. In other cases, it can undermine academic performance, social interaction and all sorts of other things, so it is crucial that the issue is explored.
We need to look at strategies for bringing relationship education out of its silo, and the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) agreed. Save the Children’s Families and Schools Together programme takes relationship education out of the classroom and deals with building relationships in families as well. We talk about early intervention, and the earliest intervention would be to get to people and give them the skills in parenting and dealing with their own emotional growth before they become parents. However, some people have already been through education, and it failed to provide such things. We need to look at schools as a way to engage with such people to give them skills as parents, to reinforce all the good things that they do and to share that experience. Save the Children’s programme is a successful way to do that.
Relationship education must be taught effectively, and the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South was right to mention the questions that have been raised about that. As the coalition Government consider the information that they have received through consultation and how they might advance relationship education, I hope that they will focus on that. They have set out their determination to increase the quality of the teaching available, and this important issue must not be dealt with simply as something that teachers pick up to fill their timetable; it must be something people have the skills to deliver effectively.
Teaching should be reinforced through interaction across the curriculum. The hon. Member for Rhondda talked about the science connection, and other hon. Members have talked about their determination to see more done on financial literacy and financial education, so there are tie-ups with maths, business and so on. By reinforcing such messages across the curriculum, we can make them much more powerful, and we can use the skills of teachers in other disciplines to ensure that those messages are worked on and delivered effectively. As I say, we can also use schools as a way to reach out into families and reinforce what goes on in them.
The coalition Government have not tackled this issue by moving on a prescriptive curriculum or by micro-managing what goes on in the classroom. However, it is important to Members on both sides that the issue is pursued and that the Government have a grasp on it to make sure that we deliver it effectively. I hope that the Minister will be able to respond to the debate in that spirit.
Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this important debate. She clearly set out why PSHE is so important. I am pleased to contribute to the debate, because I have a long-standing interest in the issue.
As a Minister in the previous Government, I took through the provisions to introduce PSHE as a statutory part of the national curriculum. It was hugely disappointing that, although the Liberal Democrats supported the Labour Government, the Conservative party declined to support the proposals introduced in 2010 and scuppered them in the wash-up, so preventing them from becoming law. It was striking that the Conservative party failed to engage with the overwhelming evidence that high-quality PSHE needed to be taught, and taught by well-qualified, well-trained teachers, and that it needed to be given sufficient time in the curriculum. The Conservative party also failed to understand that most parents wanted relationship and sex education taught in schools. Young people themselves say that they want it taught, and that includes not just the practicalities of which bit of the anatomy goes where.
As we have heard, when the Government came into power, they published the schools White Paper “The Importance of Teaching”, announcing the review of PSHE. The consultation was launched on 21 January 2011 and ended on 30 November 2011. We have been waiting 14 months to hear something from Ministers about their review, so last November I decided to ask them what was going on. I tabled a question asking the Secretary of State for Education
“on what date his Department’s review of personal, social health and education stopped receiving submissions; and when he plans to publish the results of that review.”
The Minister who is here today said:
“The public consultation phase of the internal review of…PSHE…ended in November 2011. The review will take account of the outcomes of the ongoing national curriculum review and we will publish conclusions in due course.”—[Official Report, 19 November 2012; Vol. 553, c. 369W.]
I wondered why it had taken the Department for Education so long to deal with the issue. What has been happening in the Department since November 2011? Perhaps Ministers wanted to listen further to expert groups in the field to fully understand and appreciate all the compelling evidence about PSHE. Perhaps Ministers have been having extensive meetings and further evidence-gathering sessions, so that they can give us the evidence-based policy decision making that they keep telling us they are so keen on.
I therefore thought that I would ask a few more questions. I asked the Secretary of State
“which groups he has met with to discuss relationship education in the latest period for which figures are available; and which groups he intends to meet for discussions on relationship education in the next 12 months.”
The Minister responded that the Secretary of State had met the hon. Members for Peterborough (Mr Jackson), for Chelsea and Fulham (Greg Hands), for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) and for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes)
“to discuss sex and relationship education on 8 February 2011. The Secretary of State has no such meetings planned in the next 12 months.”—[Official Report, 7 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 69W.]
I was a bit worried by that.
Diana Johnson
I am very keen to give way as the hon. Lady was at the meeting.
Diana Johnson
I am pleased that the Secretary of State agreed to meet that small group of Conservative Members of Parliament and that there was a least one female Member of Parliament present, because the rest were all white men. There has been no mention of any other groups being invited in to meet a Minister. I thought the PSHE Association, the Churches, End Violence Against Women or the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children might have been invited in to meet the Secretary of State, but no. A group of experts on violence against women and girls has been trying for some time to get a meeting with the Department to discuss the issue. Would the Minister agree to meet them to hear what they have to say on the role of PSHE in combating domestic violence?
Kate Green
My hon. Friend is making an important point. One thing that I think that she will agree is most concerning is the alarmingly large number of young boys and young girls who think that it is acceptable for a boy to hit a girl or to force her to have sex when she says she does not want to.
Diana Johnson
Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes the point very well.
Although Ministers have met none of the groups I thought they might have, extensive evaluations might have been going on of the education programmes available on PSHE. I therefore asked the Secretary of State another question:
“what lifeskills educational programmes (a) he and (b) his Department has evaluated.”
In response, the Minister said:
“This Department is in the process of assessing the strength of the evaluation of Botvin Life Skills Training Programme. Once completed, the assessment will be added to the Department’s open-access database of evaluations of programmes aimed at improving outcomes for young people.”—[Official Report, 17 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 585W.]
There was therefore a little glimmer of hope, but there was no mention of one of the most successful, biggest and best-informed education programmes developed in the UK, the Good Behaviour Game. I therefore asked another question:
“what representations his Department has received on the effectiveness of the Good Behaviour Game as a lifeskills programme; and if he will commission a review of the effectiveness of the programme within the English curriculum.”
It is worth noting that, at first, the Department thought the Good Behaviour Game was about discipline and not that it was a life-skills programme. It worried me that it did not seem to know the difference. In response, the Minister said:
“The Department has not received any representations in respect of the effectiveness of the Good Behaviour Game as a lifeskills programme. The Government has no plans to commission a review of the effectiveness of this programme.”—[Official Report, 7 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 81W.]
The Department is obviously not spending a great deal of time looking at or evaluating educational life-skills programmes, so perhaps it is focusing on the individual components of PSHE. I therefore thought I would ask some questions about relationship education. I asked the Secretary of State
“what assessment he has made of the effectiveness of relationship education”—
this goes to the point that was just raised—
“in…combating violence against women and girls and…changing attitudes towards domestic violence; what evidence on these issues has been presented to his Department in the last five years; what plans he has to review any such evidence; and if he will make a statement.”
This answer was a little better. The Under-Secretary of State for Education, the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), said:
“There is some evidence, such as Taylor et al 2010, showing that schools-based programmes can improve awareness, attitudes and knowledge of gender violence and harassment prevention. Relationship education can be provided by schools as part of…PSHE…It is for schools to determine what they teach on these issues”.—[Official Report, 17 December 2012; Vol. 555, c. 586W.]
The Minister went on to say that the Department was part of a cross-Government committee that looks at violence against women and girls and that it was “responsible for some actions”—he was not very specific—to deal with the issue. It therefore seems rather depressing that the Department accepts that relationship education can be effective in combating violence against women, but it seems to have no plans as to how that should be promoted.
What is the Department saying about alcohol? I asked the Secretary of State
“what assessment he has made of the role of alcohol education within the curriculum; what representations his Department has received on the nature and effectiveness of alcohol education; whether he plans to review such evidence; and what steps he intends to take to improve the quality and prevalence of alcohol education in schools.”—[Official Report, 14 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 527W.]
The answer, which is quite shocking, is that the Department
“has not conducted a specific assessment of alcohol education within the curriculum.”
The answer continues:
“From April 2013 a new two-year contract will be in place to deliver information and advice to practitioners, including teachers, in the field of drug and alcohol education. It will build on the best of national and international practice”—
I do not know how the Department will do that, because it does not seem to evaluate anything—
“and ensure commissioners and practitioners understand the evidence-base and use programmes known to be effective.”—[Official Report, 14 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 528W.]
Will the Minister tell us how that will happen and how it will fit with the drugs education forum? Its role was to bring together good practice from agencies, and it did that for the modest sum of £69,000, which was cut by the Government when they came into power and then hastily reinstated when they realised what a good job it did.
I turn to the PSHE review and drugs education—perhaps things will be better in relation to drugs. Again, I asked the Secretary of State what
“assessment he has made of the role of drugs education within the curriculum; what representations his Department has received on the nature and effectiveness of drugs education; whether he plans to review such evidence”.
The Minister replied:
“Pupils are currently taught about the negative physiological effects of drugs as part of the statutory National Curriculum Programmes of Study for science, and may also receive wider drugs education as part of non-statutory Personal, Health and Economic (PSHE) Education.”—[Official Report, 9 January 2013; Vol. 556, c. 341W.]
It is disappointing that the Government do not seem to understand the importance of comprehensive drugs education in our schools. Drugs has cross-departmental reach, and I thought, perhaps naively, that much work was going on at that level. From another parliamentary question, however, I discovered that Education Ministers have attended the inter-ministerial group on drugs only four times out of 12. I also obtained the agendas for those meetings and, shockingly, drugs education has never been on the group’s agenda.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
Was my hon. Friend able to ascertain through parliamentary questions whether the 66% failure to attend those meetings was down to authorised or unauthorised absences by Education Ministers?
Diana Johnson
My hon. Friend makes an important point that the Minister will perhaps address.
I am conscious that I have taken up quite a lot of time, but I am concerned that the Government, who have set up a review, seem to have failed to conduct it properly. Although I am sure that all hon. Members recognise the importance of PSHE and life skills, the Government need some lessons in how to govern effectively and how to review evidence and to make decisions based on that evidence.
Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this important debate. I share many of her concerns and views, particularly her points about teenage pregnancies and the health outcomes for both mother and baby. With those in mind, I set up a cross-party inquiry into unplanned pregnancies at the end of last year, which was supported by the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Sandra Osborne) and the hon. Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt), who is present. We decided to look at whether we could establish the consequences of the level of teenage pregnancies in this country.
As a reminder, Britain has the highest level of teenage pregnancies in western Europe and is second only to America in the western world. It is five times the rate of the Netherlands and twice the rate of Germany and France. I pay tribute to the previous Government for the enormous effort that they put into the teenage pregnancy strategy from 1999 to 2010. They set out to reduce the level of teenage pregnancies by 50% and reduced the conception rate by 25%. It was a great achievement, but it was obviously not enough, and we remain at the top of this sin league of teenage pregnancies, with the accompanying bad health outcomes.
In the inquiry, we set out to examine the possible causes of teenage pregnancies and what recommendations we could make to the Government.
Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)
What ages are in the group that my hon. Friend mentions? Are they under-16s, under-18s or under-21s?
Amber Rudd
We looked at the figures for under-19s. In fact, the figure for under-16s is extremely low. We mainly examined the figures for those aged 16 to 19.
We had a genuinely open mind towards our inquiry. It was public, with several groups giving evidence. We thought that one of the causes might be access to contraception, but we found that relationship education was absolutely the key missing part. Let us not forget the men. Let us not think, perhaps like the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), that the issue is more about men than women or women than men. The issue is about society.
Amber Rudd
Or both, as was just helpfully said.
We must include the whole of society in this important social problem. We found that sex education is pretty good. The young people that we spoke to know about contraception and how to get pregnant, but they do not know why not to get pregnant or about the emotional confidence they need.
There is some confusion around sex education. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is right that sex education is compulsory as part of biology. It is compulsory for schools to have a sex and relationship education strategy, but it is not compulsory for them actually to teach it. It is compulsory to have some elements of HIV and sexually transmitted infections within PSHE education, but the crucial aspect of relationship education is apparently not included.
Chris Bryant
There is a particular problem here. I made a lengthy report into teenage pregnancy a few years ago, as it is one of the major causes of poverty in my constituency. One problem is that because the legal requirement focuses on sexually transmitted infections, much of sex education in this country focuses on the use of condoms only. Condoms are notoriously ill-used when one is blotto at 11.30 pm on a Friday and that is one reason why we have a much higher rate of teenage pregnancies in this country, whereas other countries that teach the double-Dutch method of using two forms of contraception are far more successful.
Amber Rudd
The hon. Gentleman is quite right. There is the Pearl index, which I am sure he knows about, which assesses the effectiveness of contraception. In the age group that we examined, condoms have an effectiveness rate of something like 70% to 80%; so perhaps another reason why there should be some form of relationship education is that, as we know, drink unfortunately plays a large part in whether young people will use the right form of contraception.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
We took evidence from various groups as part of our inquiry. One of the most telling statements was from a gentleman from Brook, who said that aspiration is the best form of contraception. The whole context of aspiration and where children want to go with their lives is important and should be included in PSHE.
Amber Rudd
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We took some interesting evidence from Simon Blake of Brook, whose participation was helpful. That point about aspiration and ambition was echoed by the group of young people from the Respond Academy—a youth group from Hastings led by JC McFee—that the hon. Lady and I interviewed in the evidence session. They said that they need some form of guidance and relationship education. They need the reasons not to get pregnant, and they need help with forming relationships.
Certain people object to that, and their objections are on two fronts. First, they say that if relationship education is entered into, at some point a judgment will be made. They ask, “Is it right for the Government to be involved in judgments about when, or whether, young people should have sex?” We must respond by saying, “Of course it is right. We are the adults. Every mother and father knows that we need to help our young people in making such decisions.” No one wants young people having sex before they are ready for it. They need help and emotional guidance, and we must address that need. That objection is one that we just need to take on.
The second objection is, “Is it for schools to do this? Is it not for the families?” I have received some such objections, and my response is, “We have to deal with the world in which we find ourselves.” Of course we would prefer it if parents were able to give the education to their children, but in a world in which young people are saying, “We need help and guidance,” it is incumbent on us as the Government to say to them, “We need to respond to that.” If young people are not getting the help and guidance from their families, we must ensure that they get it from some other place, and that could be in schools.
Amber Rudd
I give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes).
Caroline Nokes
My hon. Friend makes a critically important point. Does she agree, however, that even in the ideal situation in which parents are willing to give such support to their children, and are also capable of doing so, that might not be what the children want? I am the mother of a 14-year-old girl who would rather receive impartial advice from a teacher than get such support from only me.
Amber Rudd
I agree, and I think that my hon. Friend’s 14-year-old daughter is fortunate in having a mother who is able to enter into some such discussions with her. We were particularly concerned about the young people who said, “I don’t have family support at all.” Children who are vulnerable, including those who have been in care, are the ones who are saying to us most loudly, “We have no family support. In that absence, who is going to help us? There is a gap in our lives.”
Dr Thérèse Coffey
A question that does come up, though, is whether this should be dictated from the centre or whether, as well as encouraging parents to have the discussions, we allow governing bodies to make choices. The situation might differ from school to school, with different communities and different principles.
Amber Rudd
That is certainly something that the Government and the Department should consider. Different schools have different ethoses and different values—some are Church schools, for example—and it is perfectly reasonable for schools with different attitudes, values and religions to have different approaches. My plea, however, is that they have an approach, and in too many cases they simply do not. We must ensure, therefore, that, as has been said, teachers have the proper training to give the good relationship guidance that is so important.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
As it is looking less and less likely that there will be enough time for me to speak, I just want to say that one of the problems with the workload agreement, which the previous Government introduced for very good reasons, is that in many schools PSHE lessons are not delivered by trained teachers but by teaching assistants.
Amber Rudd
I understand that training in citizenship, which is a compulsory part of PSHE, is popular with teachers and is receiving proper training attention from them.
Briefly, as I want to give other Members a chance to speak, I want to say that there are many ways in which the Department could approach this matter. Citizenship is already a compulsory part of PSHE. What greater gift for our young people, and how better to make them the best citizens we can, than to make them emotionally secure and confident young men and women, able to develop their own relationships? If we do not do that, we let our young people down.
John Robertson (in the Chair)
If colleagues try to keep their speeches down to about five minutes, everyone will get in.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on bringing this matter to the Chamber. I want to concentrate on a couple of health education issues in particular. I spoke to the hon. Lady before the debate and mentioned some of my concerns about sex education, and I want to speak about sex education in primary schools.
I well remember being taught, or given—taught is perhaps too strong a word—the essentials in secondary school by a teacher. We were all uncertain about what was going on, but at 14 we were old enough to understand and have an appropriate attitude. I look at my granddaughter who has started nursery school and will start primary school in September, and I am aware that some people are suggesting that sex education should be introduced at primary school level, to five-year-olds. That is unrealistic and unfair, and it destroys innocence.
The Christian Institute says that material for children as young as five has been slammed by a leading academic. When I first heard that I wondered if it was true, and I was concerned that there was an attitude that sex education at primary school should be suggested as part of the thesis. Professor Brenda Almond of the Christian Institute says that most five-year-olds have no interest in matters to do with sex and
“wouldn’t even recognise the word”.
I believe that that is the case, and that many people in this Chamber would echo that opinion. Professor Almond also refers to a “worrying new investigation”, conducted by the Christian Institute. Commenting on sexual education material, she warns about
“comic-book-style pictures of different sexual positions”,
and activities, and explanations of the differences between heterosexuality and homosexuality. Her conclusion was clear:
“For five-year-olds! So much for an age of innocence”,
and I would say that too. To introduce sex education at primary school level to children of that age would be ludicrous and very unwise.
Lorely Burt
I have a lot of sympathy with the way in which the hon. Gentleman is framing his argument, but does he not agree that no one is proposing that we should start to teach the biological sexual elements of relationships to five-year olds? All relationship education should be completely age-appropriate, so a five-year-old would learn about friendships and loyalty—
Jim Shannon
I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. Obviously, we have different opinions. I am clear about what I have stated and about the evidence that I have, which shows that there is an inclination among some teachers and from some education authorities to introduce such education at this early age. That is wrong, unfair, unwise and unrealistic, and the evidence that has been presented to me and of which I am aware backs that up. I would not want to see my granddaughter, or anyone’s granddaughter, being introduced to such material.
Professor Almond has clearly pointed out the emotional damage that graphic sex education could be doing to many children, destroying the simplicity of childhood, and I would reiterate that point. We are all aware that children grow up at different speeds and in different ways, and the role of the parent is important, as many Members have mentioned. Sometimes parents abdicate their responsibility, but parents who want to be part of the process should be. In many cases, it is the parents who best know how the matters should be addressed, and their opinion should be very much part of that. Ministers certainly need to take on board parents’ opinions.
I believe that sex education needs to be taken out of primary schools altogether and the responsibility handed back to the parents. We all have different opinions about that, but in this House I have the right to express my opinion, and I do so, making it very clear—as you know, Mr Robertson. My opinion is based on the opinions of my constituents, and I represent my constituents to the best of my ability, in this House and elsewhere, ensuring that their opinions are well stated.
It is also my opinion that how a family unit is made up should not be taught at school as a one size fits all, but neither should it be that anything goes, while at home mum might have a different opinion. Religious beliefs must also be taken into account in the teaching, and I fear that schools are being asked by some bodies to take too much on and are in danger of usurping the parental role. The Government must take that into account in the review of sex education for younger children.
I will conclude, because I am conscious of the five minutes and that other people want to speak. I make my point again, very clearly: in primary schools, there should be no sex education; in secondary schools there should.
Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Robertson, for ensuring that, once again, my prediction did not come true.
I congratulate the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles—[Interruption.]. I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley)—it is all the wrong the side of the Pennines for me—on securing this debate on an important subject. I declare something of an interest, having previously been a secondary school teacher and having delivered PSHE and, indeed, the more general pastoral care that comes with being a form tutor.
I first came across PSHE when I was a pupil in the 1980s, when it was introduced as PSD, as I think we called it in my school. The problem from the start with PSD was that people did not really know what it was. I remember that it was delivered by my form tutor, who used to say that PSD was a waste of time for all of us and that it was an opportunity for us to catch up on homework and for him to carry on doing his paintings—he was an art teacher, so that was acceptable. We were not delivered a great deal, apart from photocopied sheets on various subjects that took about five minutes out of a half-hour or 45-minute lesson.
PSHE has had an image problem from the start; indeed, there is still a problem today. I chaired last year’s inquiry by the all-party group on financial education for young people, and we took evidence from young people themselves. We invited them into an evidence session, and one of the questions I asked was, “What is your perception of PSHE?” to which one of the kids—sorry, that is a very local way of describing young people—described PSHE as a bit of a doss. That is still the perception in some schools, because it is delivered variously across the country.
There are some good and some bad examples. Part of that comes down to schools being under competing pressures. A challenging school might be so busy trying to work its way up the league tables and to address all the other problems that come with teaching in a challenging environment that, sometimes, things such as PSHE fall by the wayside and are not a particular priority because they are not examined. Unless something is examined or contributes to a school’s performance in the league table, focus naturally goes elsewhere.
I do not particularly remember the PSHE element of my postgraduate certificate in education, so I concur with some of the points about teacher training.
I noted the speech of my near neighbour, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), who made a couple of political points, and I will respond with a couple of political points. First, due to the workload agreement, PSHE was hived off to teaching assistants. At one school I taught at in her constituency, PSHE was hived off to cover supervisors.
Secondly, teaching and learning responsibility was added in to the pay scale, meaning that teachers received extra salary for teaching and learning responsibilities, not pastoral responsibilities. In many schools, pastoral responsibilities were removed altogether from classroom teachers. Teachers lost their form classes and no longer had a registration group, which meant they no longer taught PSHE. So PSHE and the pastoral side ended up being delivered by people who were not qualified or trained teachers. I have some pretty bad examples of that because, to protect my classroom, I used to sit in on a PSHE lesson delivered by a teaching assistant while I did my planning. I have some horror stories, which I will not go into today, of how that was delivered.
We must recognise that the pastoral side of being a teacher is much more than just delivering PSHE. We also need to understand that many of the issues that we are addressing today will come out at other times in the school curriculum; they will come out just because a schoolteacher is there and is around school. Kids come in to speak to teachers at the end of the day. We also need to understand that, beyond PSHE, schools take on board many other projects. We used to have a whole-day “Prison! Me! No Way!” programme to which the whole school was committed. Similarly, we had our own teenage pregnancy programme.
I have only a minute left, and perhaps not even that, but I want to make two pitches. First, this is an important debate and there is a position in the curriculum for such teaching. One of the all-party group’s proposals was to make financial education cross-curricular, linking with maths, and we could do that with other areas of the PSHE curriculum. That would increase the value of PSHE in schools by helping to support other parts of the curriculum. We produced a list of recommendations on financial education and met the Minister to discuss them.
Secondly, a constituent of mine, Susan Eastwood, produced a book on employability skills, which she wants to see delivered in schools because she feels many schools are failing to deliver them. I will end there, despite having a great deal more to say.
Ann Coffey (Stockport) (Lab)
As parents, we want our children to be educated not only to achieve academic qualifications and skills but to make good choices in their personal relationships and lives.
Recent scandals, including the Rochdale and Jimmy Savile cases, have horrified people, but behind those scandals, and in other similar cases, we see the same picture. We find that sexual predators felt free to operate, partly because of institutional and cultural attitudes, whether in the BBC, the Church or agencies that were supposed to be protecting children, while children were left feeling powerless to complain. To meet that challenge we need a big cultural change in this country to protect the children of the future. One of the ways we can help to do that is with good compulsory PSHE in schools. The knowledge that PSHE gives children will help to prevent further Rochdale and Jimmy Savile scandals.
As well as giving children the knowledge to make better choices about their personal lives, PSHE gives them the knowledge to protect themselves against inappropriate relationships, whether from their peers or adults, and the confidence to speak out. Quite rightly, cases such as those of Rochdale and Jimmy Savile have led to strong public revulsion that such things happened to our children, and there is a public mood to ensure that we do all we can to stop it happening again. We must not miss this moment by downgrading PSHE in schools. I support the calls for PSHE to be made a compulsory part of the curriculum.
Schools have a critical role in keeping children safe by talking to them about issues such as sexual consent, sexual coercion and exploitation, and how to shape healthy relationships and respect for each other, as well as alerting children to signs of when they are being sexually groomed. The focus needs to be on both boys and girls. Boys need to be supported to form positive and respectful attitudes to girls, especially to counter the widespread availability of pornography—a point stressed by the recent cross-party inquiry into unwanted pregnancies.
Compulsory sex and relationship education in schools would give more children the confidence to speak out and reject inappropriate relationships—not only grooming by older men for sexual exploitation, but sexually coercive relationships with their peers. The issue of what constitutes sexual consent is important. Many boys watch pornographic sites in which there is often a violent element to sexual relationships, and it is not clear that they understand the nature of consent.
I pointed out in a recent Commons debate that one third of all 16 to 18-year-old girls have experienced groping or unwanted sexual touching in schools. In 2009, a Home Office opinion poll on violence against women revealed that one in five people think it is acceptable in certain circumstances for a man to hit or slap his female partner in public in response to her being dressed in sexy or revealing clothing.
I know the Government have indicated that they do not want to make PSHE statutory, but the problem with not doing so is that our children are subject to a random postcode lottery. Schools in some areas, like my own in Stockport, are delivering high-quality PSHE and sex and relationship education, but others, sadly, are not. Such education should be available to all children in all schools.
It is now a year since the PSHE consultation closed, and the ongoing uncertainty, alongside the Government’s commitment to drive through the English baccalaureate, holds massive risks for the teaching of PSHE in schools. Evidence is emerging that important subjects that are not part of the baccalaureate are being squeezed out of the curriculum, which is worrying. A 2011 survey of 2,500 teachers by the NASUWT revealed that 43% of schools had axed or severely reduced provision of some subject areas as a result of the new baccalaureate. A reduction in the provision of art, music, religious education, citizenship and drama was reported, with an 11% decline reported in planned PSHE provision.
The proposed cut to PSHE provision could not come at a worse time, and not only for keeping our children safe, which is my main concern. We need a more holistic approach to education. Of course it is right that children achieve academic qualifications such as the English baccalaureate, but they also need to be given the knowledge to meet the challenges of an increasingly complex, global and risky world. We need to prepare children for the realities they will face. Most importantly, we need to give them the knowledge to keep themselves safe and healthy.
What is the value of a child getting a top English baccalaureate if he or she cannot recognise when they are being sexually groomed or bullied and are unable confidently to make good personal relationships? PSHE helps young people to cope with that world and will increase their confidence in being able to deal with it. Constructive and important work is already being done in many schools. The more information that children and young people receive in schools to prepare them for the world that they face, the better, but it is not being done everywhere, and it should be. The situation must not be allowed to get worse because of the move to a new baccalaureate that squeezes out all but core subjects.
John Robertson (in the Chair)
I thank colleagues for being disciplined, and I hope that the last two speakers will follow their example.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this debate. As chairman of the all-party parliamentary group on body image, I will speak briefly on some of the issues that we encountered during an inquiry that started in November 2011, and I will focus on why we have called for compulsory teaching on body image as part of personal, social, health and economic education. I was not surprised to hear references to financial education; in fact, I am a little surprised that other members of all-party groups have not made more pitches explaining why the groups in which they are involved have a particular role to play in PSHE. I will focus on some of the findings of our inquiry and the role of body image as a building block for encouraging young people to develop the self-confidence and self-worth that enables them to establish and sustain relationships that help them go on to become healthy, happy and secure adults.
We took evidence from a range of experts and from young people. One thing that surprised me was evidence that children as young as five had a sense of their body image and how they might appear different from others. Just because they are different does not mean that they have less value or worth, and trying to instil that in very young children is an important part of PSHE. That is evidence in support of discussing body image with children of primary age. Sadly, one piece of evidence that we took was that children can develop a negative self-image from their own parents. It is evidence that we need an independent forum away from the home, where children can discuss such issues and learn to talk about them with confidence and a sense of security.
We certainly took evidence that when it comes to PSHE teaching on body image, quality teaching is necessary. It is difficult for somebody who does not feel confident themselves to teach confidence to young people. I endorse the calls for good training. It is important that our teachers are given the teaching tools and support that they need to convey that message in the classroom, and it is important that they be evaluated. Evidence was given that PSHE taught in the wrong way can do more harm than good. We need quality, evaluated teaching.
I am painfully aware that PSHE is a crowded space. It is not given a large slot in the timetable, but we have heard in this debate about drug abuse, alcohol misuse and sexual relationships; I am here to talk about body image, and there is also financial education. That is a massive range of subjects, but all of them lead to our young people going out into the world as happy, healthy, rounded individuals, which is critical.
I endorse to an extent the calls by my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey), who is no longer in her place, for flexibility within schools. I have done a significant amount of work on eating disorders, and I know from my constituency that I can talk about eating disorders at one school where it is a problem, yet in one of the other secondary schools in my constituency, there is far more focus on obesity and lack of physical activity. Education must be adaptable to schools’ particular circumstances. Good teachers, head teachers and governing bodies could have the ability to adapt.
This might sound a little controversial coming from my party, but I endorse the comment about sending out children with more than exam passes. It is critical that in addition to being able to read, write and do arithmetic, our children are sent out into the world as rounded individuals. I have said it before: we need them to be healthy—
Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the world is much more complicated now? We have talked about sexual education, although we have not really talked about financial education. There are so many pressures on children leaving school that they should have a better-rounded education. It is not all about certificates and exams.
Caroline Nokes
I entirely endorse what my hon. Friend says. It is not just about exams; it is about more than that, and we fail our children if we do not send them out into the world as happy, confident individuals.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this debate. Teenage pregnancy is one of the biggest and most complex issues that Members from all parties want to address. The figures for this country rose dramatically during the Thatcher years and then fell somewhat, although not as far as we wanted, under Labour Governments. The fact remains, as has been said, that our figures are five times higher than in the Netherlands, three times higher than in France and twice as high as in Germany. The single biggest policy difference between those countries and ours in relation to young people is the quality of sex and relationship education. I believe that we in this country have made things worse by insisting that children must learn about sexually transmitted infections and the physical, biological aspects of how to have sex, rather than placing those in the wider context of self-development and issues of growing up as a young person.
Teenage pregnancy matters because many teenage mums go on to be the mums of teenage mums. Indeed, many girls who have babies when they are under 16 end up having another baby before they are 20. Many of the daughters of mums who gave birth at age 18 or 19 end up giving birth at the age of 15 or 16. I have met girls from my constituency who have given birth at the age of 14 or 15. While that continues, nobody can say to me that we as a country are serving those children well.
Motherhood becomes a career for some young girls because they do not have enough self-worth or believe that they are valued at home or at school, and they think that a baby might provide them with unconditional love. I do not believe some of the mythology about girls getting pregnant so as to have flats; there is simply no evidence for it. The vast majority of teenage mums live with their parents or other family members. However, as the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has shown, there is evidence that girls choose motherhood almost as a career in self-worth. That is what we need to address.
It is true that sex and relationship education, as all Members have said, is patchy in both England and Wales. Not only the Ofsted reports on England but the Estyn reports on Wales have said exactly the same things: large numbers of schools have a policy but do not implement it, or have teachers who are theoretically meant to be engaging in sex and relationship education but feel that they are not up to the job or are not doing a very good job. Numerous children who respond in surveys say, “I wish we’d had better sex and relationship education. I know how to do it, but I don’t know how to not do it.” Again, I think that we are failing them. That is partly because all too often, we start far too late. Girls get to their first period without realising what is happening to their bodies. What will that do to their sense of self-worth as they grow up? Often, parents are far too terrified to talk about such issues with their children, or children are far too terrified—[Interruption.] I would certainly be terrified of having sex education from the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) if she were my mother. Children are often terrified of addressing the issues with their parents.
The value of good sex and relationship education, if it starts early enough and instils a sense of self-worth, is that it almost certainly leads young people to have less risky sex, to take fewer risks in their lives and, if they do take risks, to do so knowingly. Most importantly, it probably delays their first sexual encounter. If we could change all that, we could probably change the pattern of poverty in this country. The map of teenage pregnancy is the map of poverty. It means that poverty in this country is more handed down from generation to generation than wealth. That is why I want to change things.
I also hope that we might be able to do something about homophobic bullying in schools. Diversity Role Models, a charity of which my partner is a trustee, does a great job of trying to stop it, which is important because a young gay boy is six times more likely to commit suicide than anybody else.
Finally, such education must be mandatorily, statutorily, compulsorily provided across the whole country; otherwise, schools will not invest, local education authorities will not ensure that the quality of the teaching is good enough and we will fail our children. I say that not only to this Minister, who has responsibility for England—I hope that she will reply expressly to this issue—but to my colleague in Wales, because I believe that we need to do exactly the same in Wales as in England.
Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing this important debate. She told us about teenage pregnancy in Salford and reminded us that a move to make PSHE statutory before the last election was blocked by the Conservative party during the wash-up. That was a shame. Perhaps Back-Bench Members from whom we have heard today could exert some pressure to reverse that position.
The hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) said that there were not many positive images of long-term relationships on television. I used to be a fan of “Coronation Street” and always thought that Jack and Vera Duckworth or Hilda and Stan Ogden were wonderful role models. I do not have enough time to watch any soap operas these days, so I am not sure what is going on. I think it has got much more sensationalist since my day.
Kevin Brennan
Yes, I had heard. But those were long-term successful relationships.
My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) highlighted the Government’s lack of activity and, in doing so, highlighted the great deal of activity that she has put into this subject. I will say more about that later.
The hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd)—the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s Parliamentary Private Secretary, no less—spoke with great passion and conviction, as always, on this subject. I congratulate her on the cross-party work that she has done on this subject, which she has got across recently in the media. She said that teenage pregnancy under 16 was low. I know, from the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South in Salford, that figures for teenagers above 16 range from a low of 216 to 250, whereas for the under-16s it ranges from 37 to 51. It can be as high as 20% in some areas. Although I take the hon. Lady’s point, I would not describe it as very low: 20% is a worryingly high proportion.
The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke with conviction, although perhaps his view is not shared by the majority of hon. Members present. Age-appropriateness is the issue here. I think all of us can agree that sex and relationships education should be delivered in that way. I appeal to him for clear evidence and actual, practical examples of where he thinks abuse of this provision is taking place, because it is important that this debate happens in the light of evidence.
In the 1980s, ill-conceived media coverage and ill-conceived views expressed about what was being taught to children led to section 28. I was a teacher at that time and a colleague, who was a gay man, had to keep his sexuality hidden because of the consequences of section 28, which was based on unsubstantiated rumours that what was being taught in our schools was promoting homosexuality.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
I agree with the hon. Gentleman about age-appropriateness, but does he agree that it is appropriate that the value judgments of many people in the regions of the United Kingdom, particularly parents, about how children should receive sex education should also be borne in mind?
Kevin Brennan
I agree that it is a devolved matter and should be decided by the Northern Ireland Assembly, although I hold to my remarks about age-appropriate education.
The hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) brought his experience as a teacher into the debate. He said that he was a pupil when PSHE was first introduced. At that time, I was a teacher. Some may find that hard to believe, but it is true. He also mentioned that his art teacher did not take it seriously. Art teachers are probably an endangered species these days. However, the hon. Gentleman is right about the importance of pastoral care. Hon. Members should not forget that teaching and learning responsibilities were rewarded with extra money and that was the first time in many years that pastoral care had ever been there, and that points were available on the teachers’ scale for it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) spoke with expertise. I congratulate her on her long-running campaign on safeguarding. Her points about the nature of consent, and the importance of teaching that to boys, were well made, as were the points made by the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), whom I did not find terrifying, as my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) did. I found the hon. Lady’s remarks about body image persuasive. She made a good point about parents sometimes reinforcing body image issues. It is important that children have another source from which to gain confidence to combat that. I agree strongly with her remarks about education being more than just examination passes.
My nearish neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for Rhondda, made points about teenage pregnancy that he has been making for many years, campaigning on the issue. He made an important point about unconditional love.
One general observation about the debate is that lots of hon. Members are reluctant, sometimes, to call for things to be made statutory and compulsory. I am, too. But there has to be a transmission mechanism for things to happen. I am afraid that despite the Government’s simply saying, “It would be quite nice if it does happen,” it does not work that way. Over time, we will find out—provided that this is one accountability measure that the Government do not change to hide the impact of their policies—that PSHE will not get better unless there is a serious attempt to get schools to do it. Only statutory provision will make a real difference.
As hon. Members have said, the Department for Education carried out a review on PSHE, a response to which we await with bated breath. The consultation finished on 20 November 2011, not 2012. Any young person with a good sex and relationships education will be able to tell hon. Members that the typical gestation period for a human being is nine months. However, the gestation period of this consultation most resembles that of the elephant, which is 20 months, and we are fast approaching that point. We are eager with anticipation—I was going to say “pregnant,” but I will not—to see when this will come about.
Will the Minister tell us directly when she will deliver the Government’s promised position? When she does, I should not like her to do that in the way in which she answered parliamentary questions from my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North, which was the equivalent of what Lloyd George called the perfect parliamentary answer. He was once driving in north Wales and stopped to ask directions of a Welsh farmer, asking, “Where am I?” The farmer answered, “You’re in your car.” Lloyd George said that was the perfect parliamentary answer, because it was short, accurate and told him nothing he did not know already. The answers given by the Minister and her ministerial colleagues did that in respect of my hon. Friend’s questions, by saying, “some time later this year”. It is clear that the Government are hugely conflicted about PSHE. Essentially, the Secretary of State appears to think that it is all a waste of time, but he cannot bring himself to say that in those terms or authorise his Ministers to do so.
It is important to teach children essential skills, such as how to work in a team, what to do about their body changing and their body image, and how to develop good social, employability and financial skills and good relationships. It is symptomatic of the Government’s attitude that, at first, the Minister—she raised this matter in Business questions a few weeks ago—refused to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North and representatives from the PSHE community.
I give the Minister, who is a relatively new Member and Minister, a piece of advice. At first she will sit in her office, as all hon. Members who have been through this process have done, surrounded by civil servants, radiant with lawful power, feeling pleased with herself. However, she should not ignore requests from parliamentary colleagues of whatever political party, but agree to meet them, where it is a reasonable request on a subject that is within her ambit. If she allows civil servants to erect a wall of steel around her and gets trapped in her Department, she will regret it. She should read and answer parliamentary correspondence and attempt to give full answers to parliamentary questions that will inform the House and Ministers. There are good reasons to do that. First, doing that will make her a better Minister. Secondly, it is right that she welcomes scrutiny in our parliamentary democracy. Thirdly, Back Benchers have the tools at their disposal to make her life a misery if she does not follow those practices. I can see that her civil servants are listening, and they should listen carefully. She should agree to reasonable meetings and answer questions and correspondence promptly. The Department has a poor record on that.
It is not just policy makers and stakeholders who are joining the call for more robust PSHE. A new report called “A new conversation with parents” by Pearson and Family Lives, has shown that parents also want this to happen. It is clear that the knowledge that comes along with PSHE does not need to be cut or ignored. The Government should not have the cavalier attitude that they appear to have. Let us have a clear and unequivocal statement from the Minister on why we have heard nothing from her and her colleagues on the subject over such a lengthy period and why the Government, in not responding, are undermining good-quality PSHE in our schools.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Elizabeth Truss)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) on securing the debate and I congratulate so many Members on their contributions. The number of Members who have turned up and spoken with such passion demonstrates the issue’s importance to Members of Parliament. I may not be able to give them all the answers that they were looking for this morning, but I hope to set out the Government position. We have had some interesting comments about the details of situations in their constituencies, and I assure them that I will take into account what they have said today and feed it into the Government review. As the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) knows, I am holding a series of meetings on the subject.
The Government believe that all young people should have access to a high-quality, rounded education in personal, social, health and economic issues. My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) asked about sex education as a requirement, and the current statutory guidance makes it clear that this involves teaching about relationships and parenthood and teaching girls and boys. That is the requirement for schools in teaching sex education, so it is already set out and on the statute books. The guidance for sex and relationship education also provides for pupils to be taught about how the law is applied.
There have been some interesting comments about susceptibility to domestic violence and violence against women and girls, and that is part of the current statutory guidance. Hon. Members alluded to the Home Office-led, cross-Government violence against women and girls group, which continues to draw attention to the issue. The Minister who sits on that group is the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), who represents the Department. Our position, therefore, is that guidance to schools on sex and relationship education covers those matters and applies the relevant laws.
Hon. Members have pointed out, with a number of comments on the time scale, that the Government review of PSHE education has been extended. Our issue is to make it work with our review of the national curriculum, for which hon. Members will not have to wait much longer. Those two elements need to work together. Our fundamental belief is that the national curriculum should give schools more flexibility to teach in a way that is suited to their pupils and to how the school operates. As I have mentioned, we have statutory sex education, but we believe in more local autonomy in how things are achieved, so that they are done in the best possible way.
Barbara Keeley
Does the Minister believe that such flexibility should be extended so far as to allow that education to be patchy or non-existent? That is the lesson from the many hon. Members who have spoken. We have said in all our contributions that we do not want such education to be non-existent, pathetic or patchy in our schools, in my authority or any other. Does flexibility go that far? If it does, we have an issue.
Elizabeth Truss
No. We want schools to offer a rounded education, but we believe the best way to do that is to allow more decision making by head teachers, rather than by Whitehall.
I want to respond to some of the points made on financial education and to explain how it works with our national curriculum review. As my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) mentioned, we are incorporating more financial education into the mathematics curriculum, such as understanding money, compound interest rates, loan repayments and applying percentages or ratios. That is a practical reason why the PSHE review has to interface properly with the national curriculum one. We are opening up the new published national curriculum for review, so I hope that Members will be able to comment on how it relates to what they have asked for in the PSHE curriculum.
Drugs education was also mentioned by hon. Members. Our focus is to ensure that schools and local commissioners understand which programmes have a genuinely positive effect. To support that, we have asked the Centre for Analysis of Youth Transitions to develop an open-access database of evaluations of programmes and interventions that have robust evidence of impact outcomes for young people, including on substance misuse. I can provide a link to the information in place.
I have outlined how I think that more teachers should be empowered to decide the content of the wider school curriculum. International evidence shows that giving schools more autonomy results in them being able to make better decisions on the ground. The same applies to teacher training, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South. We are clear that teachers should be free to access high-quality resources and training, such as that provided by the British Heart Foundation on life-saving skills. It is a two-way process, with professionals in schools in regular dialogue with outside bodies, as well as the Government, rather than one with edicts issued from Whitehall about how exactly subjects should be taught.
Dan Rogerson
I accept what the Minister says about empowering schools to adapt things to local circumstances; but clearly, head teachers and governing bodies act within a framework of accountability, including league tables and so on. As my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy) pointed out, those academic scores are a focus for schools—in particular, for schools in challenging areas—whereas dealing with some of the issues that young people face could unlock their potential and help them in their academic lives. As well as looking at the curriculum, can the Government do something to incentivise good teaching, by rewarding it in how schools are judged?
Elizabeth Truss
We are currently reviewing the accountability system and will shortly have some proposals, as well as having the PSHE review, so such things are under consideration. I am meeting organisations and hon. Members from all parts of the House about those various elements.
Barbara Keeley
That is the second time that the Minister has mentioned meetings, and she is talking about meeting Members. My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), however, made the point that the Minister is not meeting organisations such as the PSHE Association, which clearly has a vital role, or many other organisations. Furthermore, she is not meeting Opposition Members. Will she start to throw open her meetings to a much wider group, such as those who are interested today? Will she meet more groups and Members from all parts of the House?
Elizabeth Truss
I have met both Government and Opposition Members on matters pertaining to PSHE, and I have met various organisations. As hon. Members have alluded to, quite a few organisations deal with the various issues across PSHE, and I am certainly willing to engage with Members—I am keen to do that, and I have already had a series of meetings. I am also happy to respond to a parliamentary question or to write to the hon. Lady about which organisations and Members I have met. Perhaps she was referring to the previous Minister—I am not sure.
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) for raising body image, which is another important issue. Giving schools more autonomy will enable them to teach what is relevant to them. She mentioned that different aspects of the body image issue might be important in different parts of her constituency. Again, that demonstrates the need for more local decision making within a framework set out by the Government. That is what we are working on in the PSHE review, to follow our release of the national curriculum review. I am happy to engage with hon. Members on that.
I thank everyone for their contributions to today’s debate, which has been extremely helpful in informing my views, as a relatively new Minister, on important issues for Members of Parliament from in all parts of the House.