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Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con)
It is an absolute pleasure to serve under your leadership, Mrs Brooke, and I thank everyone for attending the debate. I am sure we all agree that everyone should have the right to free movement—to work, live and travel safely throughout the world—but that is not the case, sadly, for the 11 million disabled people in this country. I am a member of the all-party group on young disabled people, and its aim is to listen to and represent the concerns of inspirational young people who just want to live their lives.
There have been great steps forward in disability rights. The Paralympics demonstrated the sheer will and determination that can turn adversity into victory. I welcome the increased awareness of disability issues, which has led to progressive thinking about accessibility, and a great deal has been achieved in recent years to remove the barriers that prevent people from accessing public transport. The percentage of disabled people experiencing difficulty using public transport had decreased to 22% by 2009, which is in stark contrast to the experience of those travelling by air.
There is far more to be done before a less able-bodied person can decide to go on holiday, or even arrange a work trip in the way most of us can. In the age of cheap flights, the world is a much smaller place but only, it seems, for the able-bodied. I was deeply concerned by the “Up in the air” report that was presented at the APPG by Trailblazers, a national network of young disabled people working together to highlight social injustices. In the study, 60% of respondents feared for their safety while being transferred on to their seat, 60% said that their wheelchair had been damaged by flight handlers, and a staggering nine out of 10 wheelchair-users said that they were unable to use airline toilets and were forced, therefore, to avoid drinking before and during flights.
For many, the experience of flying is humiliating, costly and uncomfortable—even painful—and a long way from the standards we should expect. It seems perverse that we can break the sound barrier, have on-board bars and send tourists into space but are unable to afford basic dignities for everyone. This debate is highly topical, given that the Civil Aviation Bill is on Report today in the other place. The status quo is clearly unacceptable, and we must find solutions. The European Community regulation 1107/2006 and our Equality Act 2010, alongside the Department for Transport’s “Access to Air Travel for Disabled Persons and Persons with Reduced Mobility—Code of Practice”, set out the rights to transport access, but implementation is very different from legislation.
It should be highlighted that the Civil Aviation Authority, or CAA, which is the aviation regulator and the national enforcement body for European consumer aviation legislation, is separate from the Department for Transport. This debate, therefore, should not seek to encourage new legislation that could compromise the CAA’s independence but consider how we can encourage compliance and best practice consistently across civil aviation in the United Kingdom.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
I sincerely congratulate the hon. Gentleman on initiating this important debate. Does he agree that a key issue is to ensure that the pioneering airlines and companies, which are leading the way in this field by observing not just the letter but the spirit of the law, are rewarded, and that companies that do not do that ought to be penalised? There is a strong role for the Department for Transport, in ensuring that there is a level playing field for the companies that are trying to do the right thing.
Graham Evans
The hon. Lady is entirely right. Proactive good practice is encouraged, and I will come on to mention a certain company, and a certain individual who has been busy doing a lot of good work on that issue.
At every stage of the travel process there must be clear checks and balances, to ensure that the right information is being given and passed on, and that legislation is being adhered to. I would like to break down the travel process into the three stages of booking, at the airport, and on the plane, and to review the issues and the examples of good practice—such as those the hon. Lady just mentioned—and to consider how we can improve.
First, let us consider the booking process. Under EU legislation, it is illegal to refuse bookings because of disability, but half of respondents in the study had disability-related problems when booking airline tickets. The central principle of the law is that passengers need to advise as to their needs before travel, with persons with reduced mobility, known as PRMs, being required to give at least 48-hours’ notice. The process, however, is often convoluted, complicated and costly, with unnecessary paperwork or long, repetitious conversations.
Article 11 of the EU regulation states that air carriers and airport managing staff should have training in understanding mobility requirements. However, I support the Department for Transport’s code, which suggests that all staff in the aviation industry should be trained, so that the first point of communication covers the needs of the passenger. If a carer is needed, it is critical that seats be placed together and, where possible, chosen to best suit needs and enable better access. That is basic stuff, and although some airlines are doing it well, others are clearly failing.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. Does he agree that it is absolutely crucial that most of the main airlines, particularly those that promote themselves as budget or low-cost, train their staff so that disabled people can book flights and manoeuvre their way through airports with the greatest possible support? Such training is crucial in getting a disabled person from A to B via an airline.
Graham Evans
I totally agree with the hon. Gentleman. He makes a very good point well. It does not matter whether it is a budget or low-cost airline or any other airline; these are fundamental customer service roles and training should be there, as a given. Let us consider the trains, for example. I use the west coast main line regularly, and have observed passengers in wheelchairs. Although trains are, by design, tight, I have noticed on the Pendolino how those passengers successfully manoeuvre themselves around the seats, luggage and toilets. The doors open, and the staff know exactly what to do. They know where the ramps are to get passengers down from the train to the platform. Platforms vary, and the sizes are different, but the staff do not make an issue of it. They have the right equipment, the right attitude, and clearly the right training, and it is a painless task to watch. A couple of weeks ago I spoke to a young gentleman in a wheelchair and he said, “I travel regularly and it is never an issue getting on or off the train.” The message is that it can be done. With good training and the right leadership and management it is an everyday occurrence, and there is absolutely no reason why that should not be the case for the air industry as well as the trains.
It should not cost more for a PRM to book flights, and I wholeheartedly recommend that there should be online booking facilities for wheelchair carriage, and a freephone number available for providing further information to the airline. It is not always possible to give advance notice, but where possible PRMs should be able just to pick up a phone to make the necessary call and not have to repeat themselves time and again.
Let us now consider what happens on arrival at the airport. Almost half of respondents said there are frequent issues when checking in, with inconsistent advice about the policies for mobility and about health equipment. Inconsistent advice and lack of training contravene the legislation, and I would be pleased if the CAA took a robust approach to communication breakdown.
Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab)
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. I am one of those people who travel with their mother, and she has to have a wheelchair to travel. One of the frustrations we find—there must be other people in a similar situation—is that after we arrive and park in the car park, getting her to the actual airport and, from there, trying to get to a wheelchair is an enormous problem. Often there are no facilities at that point. Perhaps one thing airports might consider is that, when people book their ticket in advance, such arrangements could be put in place, too, so there is something there to enable people to move and get into the airport.
Graham Evans
The hon. Lady is entirely right. Arranging a section of a multi-storey car park—I am thinking of a particular airport that I do not want to mention—is not beyond the capability and wit of man. Sometimes people have to park miles away from the airport, but a facility so that carers or disabled people may drive virtually to the departure lounge would have no cost implications and would be quick and straightforward. The hon. Lady has raised an important point.
On check-in, wheelchairs are normally taken by staff to be loaded. We should consider wheelchairs not only as modes of transport but as vital medical equipment. As such, I am deeply concerned by the lack of due care and training; 60% of wheelchairs are damaged in flight. Even more concerning is the £1,000 compensation limit for damage to chairs, which can cost upwards of £6,000. Surely, if the argument for the limit is that it protects the cost viability of airlines carrying such equipment, we should reposition the argument. If the training were better, fewer wheelchairs would be damaged and fewer costs paid. That is really simple, is it not? As a result, as with anything else that is transported, when a wheelchair is damaged, full compensation could be given, which would be better value for airlines and a better deal for passengers—better all round.
I am pleased there has been progress and airports are making their facilities more accessible, and it is worth noting that the 11 million disabled people in the United Kingdom, 8% of whom use wheelchairs, have a combined spending power of £80 billion a year.
Dr Hywel Francis (Aberavon) (Lab)
I also congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this excellent debate. Has he undertaken an international study? Of course, by its very nature, airline travel is overwhelmingly international. I speak with experience of travelling with a disabled child in the late 1990s, and many people, today and in the recent past, are struck by how different the welcome is in, say, Atlanta, Georgia, which is excellent, compared with Schiphol, Heathrow or Cardiff. That difference must surely be underpinned by legislation, rather than simply good practice that may be found at particular airports.
Graham Evans
I agree with the hon. Gentleman. I have knowledge from similar experiences. He mentioned an airport in north America, and in my personal experience the Americans have a different frame of mind; they have a can-do attitude. The Americans were doing that for years before Parliament passed the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, as part of their customer service—not just for some customers but for all. The Americans have that can-do attitude, so legislation is not needed to provide basic good customer service.
I hear what the hon. Gentleman says about Heathrow, and it is very much for the leadership and management of those businesses and companies to make the decision to offer good quality service for disabled people. They do not have to wait for legislation. The legislation is largely here, but it has not been acted upon. I put that down to the leadership and management of those organisations; it comes down to the basic level. The legislation is there; they just have to ensure that, as a good quality company, they put those good working practices in place.
Recent investments include £2 million by Gatwick airport on making facilities more accessible, which resulted in a 93% decrease in complaints since 2009. Manchester airport has launched a new access guide designed to provide disabled customers with all the information required to plan their journey through the airport.
Finally, let us consider people boarding planes and in-flight services. Boarding policies vary from airline to airline. I am happy that priority boarding is becoming increasingly common, both for the comfort and dignity of the passengers themselves and for the comfort and safety of surrounding passengers. But in the report there are too many examples of bad practice to be dismissed as one-offs.
Of course, we have to consider the costs. Air bridges are considerably more expensive than steps, and low-cost airlines deliver cheap seats exactly because they forgo so-called luxuries. I am heartened, however, by airlines such as easyJet, which, with input from its independent advisory service chaired by the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), has invested in trials for rising ramps to replace stairs to keep costs down and to make boarding far easier and safer.
For all the progress, there are glaring flaws in the current process. Despite requirements to have training on lifting and moving wheelchair users, more than 60% of respondents felt unsafe when being moved. Safety should always be the key priority, and I am concerned that the required training is not being delivered. That must change for the safety of passengers, crew and ground staff alike.
The issue is complicated and far-reaching, with many elements to consider. The practical implications of refurbishing planes to be more accessible are huge, and I welcome the willingness of aviation manufacturers such as Boeing to set up dialogues with disability groups. Given the development time for plane models, it would be unrealistic to expect instant changes, but if we maintain pressure and keep channels of communication open, we can hope to see progressive design.
In the meantime, although there is general awareness of the problems of catering for disabled people, that is very much lip service. We need to encourage proactive engagement from the first interaction when booking a ticket, through the check-in desk and to the seat. Training, strict guidelines and clear and consistent information are needed. We are not asking for a reworking of jet propulsion theory, but we want and need smarter thinking to make aviation work for us all.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) on bringing this subject to Westminster Hall. It is of great importance to some of my constituents and to many who are here. I suspect that a great many others would like to be here, but unfortunately cannot be.
As a Northern Ireland MP, over the past two years I have had more opportunity to fly than I ever had in the past. In the first two months of being an MP, I travelled more by aeroplane than I probably did in all the years of my life before that. Air travel has become a regular part of life for those travelling from Northern Ireland to here. Doing that has given me the chance to observe what happens in airports and how disabled people are treated. In addition, numerous constituents have pointed out to me that the so-called budget airlines have the worst attitude to those who need a little extra help—my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) touched on that, and many other hon. Members will probably be of the same opinion. As a result, I am not surprised by many of the stories that I have heard so far and will probably hear before the afternoon is out.
Although I am not surprised, I am certainly disgusted by some of the attitudes adopted by some airlines and their staff. The hon. Gentleman referred to the attitude to customers, which could be improved greatly. It is not hard to be kind and courteous or to help when someone needs help. Some of the budget airlines have achieved a reputation for treating people like cattle—I use the term advisedly—and not taking their circumstances and situations into account. That should be addressed at the highest level, and I hope that in his response the Minister will give us some positive vibes on how the Government intend to do that, so that airlines may no longer discriminate against those who need a little extra help or time to get aboard. The essence of air travel is speed. People rush to get to the airport, they rush to get to the plane and then, when they have just about caught their breath, it is time to get off and repeat the exercise in the other direction, but disabled people, wheelchair users or those with mobility issues have greater problems.
I stress that I am not tarring all airlines with the same brush, to use a phrase that we use at home. Alongside the examples of those that do not treat disabled people correctly are examples of those that do. I will give one example that highlights the issue and how we can have faith in some people’s goodness. One of my constituents was on a British Airways flight—I identify it because the carrier provided good care—from South Africa back to England. She had suffered a miscarriage on the morning of the flight and there was concern about whether she should fly because of the high altitude and so on, but she was desperate to get home. After getting medical assistance and advice, she was put into a wheelchair at the airport—her medical condition had been confirmed as stable to fly. The British Airways pilot came down to see her; she was upgraded on board the flight, along with her husband; and throughout the 11-hour flight, airline staff brought her hot water bottles and fluid.
Some airlines excel, which is good. That is the standard that all of them should be trying to adhere to. It would be good if they did. Some go above and beyond what should reasonably be expected, which should be commended, but when others refuse to give even a basic level of help and respect, we must step in. As parliamentarians, we have an opportunity to speak on behalf of the people who contact us.
A survey of young disabled air passengers showed that 90% of wheelchair users are unable to use airline toilets and must therefore avoid drinking before or during flights. Some 60% of disabled passengers say that their wheelchairs have been damaged when travelling with an airline, as the hon. Member for Weaver Vale mentioned, and 60% said that they felt unsafe when transferring from a wheelchair to an airline seat. Those are small things, but they are important to a disabled person. Airlines and their staff must show compassion for such people and ensure that their flight experience is every bit as good as mine and that of everyone here who travels by air regularly. Another 50% stated that they had had disability-related problems booking airline tickets—even booking a ticket is a problem for 50% of disabled people. Lots of elements of the process must be improved to ensure that disabled people can travel much more easily and with less hassle.
The statistics that we were sent in our parliamentary briefings—I know that other Members received them as well—scream for us to address them, and I hope that that will be achieved through this debate. We hear too many tales of disabled people being seated halfway down a plane and then paraded through the flight with other passengers looking on, so the person feels like they are part of a sideshow. It is absolutely disgraceful that small and easy improvements are overlooked by some airlines and their staff. It seems prudent to me to allocate disabled people the seats closest to the exits, to enable a less conspicuous transfer whenever they get on or off the plane.
Yasmin Qureshi
In the light of what the hon. Gentleman is saying about the variation in services provided to different people by different airlines, does he agree that it would be helpful if the Secretary of State required the Civil Aviation Authority to produce an annual report on the experience of disabled passengers using air transport services, including whether the airlines have complied with relevant legislation?
Jim Shannon
I thank the hon. Lady for that suggestion. It would be a good marker if every year the airlines had to reflect on whether they had met their target and helped people, and on the number of people who had complained. It would certainly sharpen them up.
No one should fear taking some water on a flight, as we are all recommended to do in order to prevent blood clots and other problems, just because they know they will have to go through an ordeal to use the toilets. Again, it is a small thing, but it is important: it is one of the basics of life. I read of one young man—it must have been a terribly difficult situation for him—who had to relieve himself into a bottle at his seat when he could not access the toilets because staff were not available to help. How embarrassing it must have been for that young man. I suspect that that is replicated on many airlines across the United Kingdom and further afield. It should clearly be avoided. Something has to change in how disabled people are viewed by some airlines. As the change is not forthcoming, we are having this debate to highlight the issues and hopefully to get a helpful response from the Minister. I believe that we must step in.
I want to highlight another issue that is important to my constituents, who have come to me in some numbers. During 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland, as well in fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, numerous constituents of mine have been injured and now have metal in their bodies to repair those injuries. As a result, they have to go through security checks at airports that are a most humiliating exercise for someone with six inches of metal in his leg or back as a result of fighting for the Army, or serving in the police force in Northern Ireland or elsewhere. They go through a strip search every time they go to an airport. I ask the Minister to consider that issue. I asked the airport and the authorities whether, if such people presented a doctor’s letter, it would be sufficient, but they were unwilling to accede. As a result, every time those people travel, whether from Northern Ireland to Heathrow or from here to Florida, Paris or elsewhere in Europe, they go through a statutory strip search because they have metal in their bodies, which shows up clearly on the screen.
Yasmin Qureshi
On the issue of scanners going off if somebody walks through, does the hon. Gentleman agree that one of the best ways of dealing with people with medical conditions who must go through security checks is to provide somewhere private where the person can be taken and spoken to, so that they can explain what their condition is in private, rather than stand with everyone else in the queue while they are questioned about their medical issues?
Jim Shannon
That is obvious. Another issue that crops up sometimes involves people with colostomy bags going through airport checks, because fluids are checked at security. That unpacks the hon. Lady’s point. Some privacy should be afforded to people who need help at that point.
I am positive that I am not the only person amazed by what was achieved by our superb Paralympian teams, as the hon. Member for Weaver Vale mentioned. The Olympics were a tremendous boost to the United Kingdom and Great Britain, for both those who are able-bodied and those who are not. The team excelled. I remember sitting with my wife Sandra watching the Olympics—it became compulsive viewing—and saying, “Sandy, pass me a hankie. I think we’ve won another medal.” It was engrossing to be involved in everything happening on the field of medals.
The Olympians, and particularly the Paralympians, excelled. To watch them accomplish what I could not have accomplished even in my prime brought a tear to my eye and, I believe, to many other eyes as well. The idea that some of those people could be and are restricted from travelling on flights because of their disability is unacceptable. The celebrations of the Paralympics have passed, but the time has come for us to realise that it is not enough to say that there are no facilities or inadequate facilities; we must say instead that we will work on all those who refuse to fall into line to make access available. This House must put pressure on them to do the right thing. I believe that that should start now.
Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke, and to take part in this important debate and respond to the all-party group meeting held last week on the report. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) on securing the debate.
Chairing the all-party parliamentary group on young disabled people is one of the most fulfilling parts of the job that I do here in the House. It is odd, in a way, because it does not involve much work from me. It is a rather unique all-party group, in that the less the Members of Parliament say, the happier I am, because I want the young people—the Trailblazers—to play the key role. They write the reports, so it is only right that, when we have a gathering of witnesses, they, not the MPs, do the cross-examining. The less the MPs say, the better—a welcome change that we might bring into other aspects of parliamentary life, perhaps.
I pay tribute to all the Trailblazers who played their part in writing the excellent report that we are discussing, which raises a wide range of issues. I pay particular tribute to a lady named Hayleigh Barclay, who has been doing sterling work, trying to influence plane manufacturers in Europe, so that they think about how they design planes in future. She has been struggling and must feel occasionally that she is hitting her head on a brick wall. I have tried to help, as well, by writing to companies, but I do not get any replies either. She has really dedicated herself to this cause.
Rather than rehearse the report’s contents for a third time, I would rather focus on what we discussed during the all-party group meeting last week, when we had evidence from a range of representatives from airlines and plane manufacturers. I took from that the incredibly great difficulty that disabled passengers have in maintaining the simple, basic human dignities that so many of us take for granted when travelling by air. Airlines always get a kicking in this regard, because they are the ones that we see when we travel. We think everything—every stretch of our journey—is to do with the airline, but of course it is not. The booking system can be any internet site going and might even not be based in this country; the airport operator controls the physical infrastructure; and bags or whatever else passengers need to check in goes to the ground handler, which is contracted partly to the airline and partly to the airport operator. Who is pulling whose strings? It is a complex passenger journey, which is one reason why we have lower level of passenger service than is now seen in rail and bus travel. Rail and bus are by no means perfect—do not get me wrong—but they are further down the track, if hon. Members will excuse the pun, than with air travel.
There are also jurisdictional issues. We can legislate all we like for UK planes and give the CAA as many powers as we choose to, but we cannot control what happens in a third country, particularly if it is outside the EU. Trying to use powers that the House could have to mandate change is difficult. That is why I have been focusing on working out why the industry has these disconnects in how it speaks to itself. Why cannot an airport consultative committee put disabled passengers’ needs at the forefront of what they do and redesign their systems to ensure that even simple stuff can be done, such as considering whether a powered wheelchair can be broken down and stored safely and not damaged? Why is that so difficult?
That takes me back to how we build airports. Sir Howard Davies has an awful lot to consider in the coming years and I am loth to add more to his task, but I hope that any new airport, should he choose to build a new one, is built on a slightly different model, where the needs of the passenger come first, rather than just getting people in and out as quickly and simply as possible. I was staggered to hear some witnesses talk about how difficult it is to get a wheelchair from the gate to the aircraft hold, without having to check it in about four hours beforehand, when they first arrive at the airport. Why should making that connection, which is no more than 25 yards away, be so difficult? Is it beyond the wit of man to devise a solution? I understand the need for security, which must be uppermost, and the need to separate incoming and departing passengers for immigration reasons, but those things surely cannot be allowed to stop a wheelchair simply being moved 25 yards. I fail to understand why that is so difficult.
So much of what we discussed last week was about passenger information from one actor in the process to another. The number of gaps that accurate information disappears down is mind-boggling. When booking a ticket, for example, people go into their local branch of Thomas Cook on the high street, if they are lucky enough to still have a branch there, and book the ticket with the travel agent, who notices if they have a wheelchair. The travel agent applies a code, although no one is ever sure whether the codes are all the same, which somehow goes down the wires to wherever it needs to go, but at no point is there any adequate consideration of whether a passenger will use their own chair. Will they need a different chair when at the airport? Will they need to check in their wheelchair at the gate or check-in desk? Is it a powered wheelchair? How big is it? What are the weight limits? Although the passenger booking the ticket might think that the great god of Thomas Cook— the all-knowing one—or the travel agent will somehow ensure that it is all right, that cannot be guaranteed. They might not have dealt with someone in a wheelchair before and might not know what the systems are. We place a great deal of confidence in a process that is not necessarily delivering for the passenger.
Until last week, I did not realise that anyone can try to reserve a seat on an aircraft. We can all put in a request for a bulkhead seat. They are popular. People get to stretch their legs out if they are able to and have more space, so those seats are particularly desired. However, so broad is the definition of a person of reduced mobility, that the severity of their need cannot be taken into account. Someone with a stiff leg might need a bulkhead seat, whereas another person may have a complex bulky powered wheelchair and quite severe mobility issues. The airline cannot decide how to allocate those seats until the last minute, when it knows who is trying to board the plane.
There are great difficulties in ironing out the flaws in this process, but I detect willingness to improve. It would be unfair to paint a uniformly bleak picture, and I always try not to do that in every report produced by the all-party group. There are always positives to focus on, and I think that we should do so. The airlines are keen to do more and to do better, but I sometimes feel that specific innovations are occasionally a shock factor, with the response being, “We don’t normally do it that way, so I’m not going to do it that way in future.” However, innovation is going on. The all-party group heard about some interesting and innovative proposals regarding replacing hoists, for example, with a new form of seat, which would ensure greater dignity for passengers. Boeing showed us a revolutionary new form of lavatory that was truly accessible. That might be a point for the Minister to consider.
The case that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned of the young man who had to urinate into a coffee pot occurred because that person thought that the toilet was accessible and only found out when he got on the plane that it was not. The definition of accessible for an aircraft is not the same as for a bus or a train. It is no use putting a nice, shiny, chirpy blue symbol on the door and thinking that a lavatory is wheelchair accessible. That is not the case. I was surprised to hear one example of an accessible toilet at the bottom of a spiral staircase. I am not sure that even I could cope with that at 30,000 ft in the air and still think that that was accessible.
As I said, things are improving. We should celebrate the fact that, as the CAA confirmed last week, all UK airlines will voluntarily fully fund any replacement costs for any damaged wheelchair. We are unique in the world in making that commitment, which demonstrates to me that we do not always need stringent legislation. We need to get the industry to agree that something is worth doing and is in their interests, and they will do it.
I am acutely conscious that airport operators, ground-handling agents, travel agents, plane manufacturers, airlines and Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all almost need to be dragooned in a room and made to understand what is required. That is why I continue to lament the loss of the disabled persons transport advisory committee, which I hope is still offering views somewhere in the ether, and I would appreciate a verdict on where that is now occurring in the Department for Transport.
What gave me even more hope, however, was that, regardless of what the Department said, the Trailblazers are coming up with their own solution. Charlene Kane, the director of customer services at Monarch Airlines—I have probably got her title wrong—volunteered at the end of the all-party group’s session to host a working group of all the bodies that I mentioned, so that they can listen to what the Trailblazers and the industry have to say and try to come up with solutions. Those solutions would start when someone is at their computer trying to book their flight and end when they get back home, with their wheelchair undamaged and in one piece, having had the holiday or business trip that they wanted and having had their human dignity protected, rather than compromised, at every stage of their journey. That cannot be too much to ask. “Turn up and go” might be a utopia, but it should be a human right.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, and I am particularly grateful to the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) for initiating it. I echo everything he said on this important subject.
I have taken an interest in the accessibility of public transport since I was approached by a group of constituents a couple of years ago as a new Member of Parliament. They told me the most appalling stories about their experiences on public transport, some of which happened because others had wilfully not done what they were supposed to do or taken the care we would expect, and some of which happened because nobody had really thought about things. It is clear from many of the stories we have heard today that proactive engagement with this issue could not be more important.
I am quite angry about the lack of progress that we have made on the accessibility of public transport in general and in the aviation industry in particular. This is something that really blights the lives of my constituents, of all ages, although I am particularly struck by the stories of young people and especially those born after the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 was passed. That Act—I am not making a party political point—had the support of both sides of the House, but all these years later, the situation facing my constituents and many others around the country is still not good enough.
I will not rehearse the points that have been made, although I agree with everything that has been said. I do, however, want to make the point that the number of complaints that are made is not a good enough indicator of the scale of the problem. I am grateful to the charity Trailblazers for highlighting the fact that many young people who are treated badly, or who have really humiliating experiences, on the transport system simply do not complain, because the experience was bad enough the first time, and they do not want to relive it. One of the most damning indictments to emerge from one of the first inquiries Trailblazers did was that it was incredibly difficult to get young people to speak about their experiences on public transport, because those experiences were so traumatic the first time round that they simply did not want to talk about them again. We cannot rely on people coming forward and reliving their experiences; we need proactive monitoring, and I hope the Minister will say something about that.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for pointing out that this is not just about physical disability. We focus a lot on wheelchairs, and rightly so, but there are a whole host of issues facing people who have additional needs on all forms of public transport and in relation to aviation. The hon. Gentleman talked about many of those issues, and I will not rehearse them, but I echo what he said, particularly about colostomy bags.
There are real issues facing people with learning disabilities—sight problems and other issues—and we need to take that into account. As the hon. Member for Weaver Vale said so compellingly, this is about our attitude to people in general and our attitude to customer service. As someone who worked with disabled children for many years before coming into Parliament, I think we need a real shift in our attitude right across society. The attitude in this country is largely that it is the responsibility of people with disabilities to try to adapt to existing society, and that is completely the wrong way to look at this. It is our responsibility to be inclusive, and if we get that right for people with disabilities, we get it right for everybody. There is much more that can and should be done.
I am particularly grateful to the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) for making the really important point about consultation. About a year ago, I held a debate in this Chamber about accessibility problems, which focused mainly on buses and trains. I met the Minister afterwards—he kindly agreed to meet me because he had been called away and was not able to attend—so he will know of my concerns. One of the key issues that was brought to my attention related to the Pendolino service, which we have already discussed. I have some admiration for the way Virgin has approached this issue and the way it has designed its Pendolino trains, but many constituents have raised with me the fact that there are just two wheelchair spaces on each Pendolino train—one in standard and the other in first class, which means they are at different ends of the train. Quite understandably, many of my constituents who travel in wheelchairs have friends who are also in wheelchairs—they will have met one another through various support groups—but it is impossible for them to travel together, which is something most of us would simply take for granted. When I put that to Virgin, the company was very helpful, but as has been acknowledged, once trains have been commissioned, designed and built, it is too late to change them, because they last a long time. We therefore condemn yet another generation to struggle when we could have got things right in the first place. That is why I say to the Minister and all other Members that consultation is important.
I want to place on record my concerns about the demise of the disabled persons transport advisory committee. Will the Minister tell us what arrangements have been made for the successor body we were promised?
As the Minister will know, I firmly believe that there is a role for the Government beyond co-ordination. Their co-ordinating role is incredibly important, but there is also a need to create a level playing field for those companies that go way beyond the letter of the law and observe the spirit of the law by trying to pioneer good practice. It is completely wrong that those companies do not receive any additional credit for their efforts, beyond us in the House perhaps occasionally paying lip service to what they have done. As the hon. Member for Weaver Vale said, one great reward is the purchasing power of people with disabilities, although this is not just about people with disabilities: as many Members have said, most of us will have friends or relatives with accessibility issues on public transport, so that affects us as well.
There is a role for the Government beyond just paying lip service to companies that are trying to be pioneers in this field. One issue I have raised with Ministers is public procurement. I was particularly dismayed by the west coast main line process, which has, of course, gone on to have further difficulties, although I will not dwell on them. I wanted a commitment to accessibility written into the franchise agreement for the west coast main line so that it was up front and centre as part of the tendering process. It is completely wrong that companies that already have such a commitment are not rewarded, and I would be grateful if the Minister said something about how the Government intend to address the issue.
There is also a role for us in Parliament; this is not simply a matter for the Government. One thing that really struck me when I initiated my debate last year was that I had had no idea that the problem was so enormous and affected so many people’s lives every day. I would like all transport companies to report to Parliament once a year on the progress they have made in complying with their obligations, so that those of us who have the luxury of ignoring this problem are simply not allowed to do so.
I do not wish to deny the real progress that has been made thanks to the efforts of dedicated people, some of whom work in the transport industry, and some of whom have campaigned on this issue for a long time. Since I became involved in the debate, I have been inundated with stories from people across the country about the difficulties they face just going about their daily lives and doing things most of us take for granted. There is a thread of indignity and humiliation running through so many of those stories that quite simply has no place in 2012, and it is time that all of us in the House made this issue our priority.
Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)
First, I declare an interest, and secondly I apologise: I was in a Statutory Instrument Committee on child maintenance and could not get to the debate until now. However, I commend my office for giving me a wonderful breakdown of what everyone said. I shall try not to repeat things, but my staff could not find anything that they thought I would disagree with, so that is a great start.
As well as congratulating the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans), and the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) on his chairing of the all-party group on young disabled people, and his work with the Trailblazers, I want to say that things have improved a lot, but have a long way to go. I understand that the improvement that has been made to rail travel has already been mentioned. Buses are somewhat difficult, because catching one is sometimes a difficulty, never mind what happens when someone with a motor problem wants to get on and off. However, strides have been taken, and it is the airline industry that now has the greater challenge. The range of requirements involved has been mentioned, and they include not just those of people who have traditional problems with mobility—persons with reduced mobility, or PRMs, as they are known in the trade—but those of a growing elderly population who will require all forms of assistance as they seek to carry on living their lives to the full and moving across the world.
I want to make two or three obvious points. One has already been made, and it is about training, but not just the training of individuals. I find that individual airline assistants, whether those who work on the ground, pilots or the people who serve in the cabin, are usually excellent. The issue is, sometimes, training in the systems that they are expected to operate. For example, two weeks ago I was flying back from Belfast to East Midlands airport. When I arrived with my wife at Belfast airport we discovered that even though we had booked and registered in advance, and the dog had a registration number of his own, we had all been booked on three separate rows. It was somewhat difficult for me, but it would have been impossible for the person who ended up with the dog. The staff were wonderful and did their best, but resolving the situation entailed someone being asked to move. The airline staff gave them a free drink, which I was grateful for, because I was going to do it if they did not; however, the incident shows the fact that the problems are often not intentional. The issue is not about individuals, but processes and the way in which people plan, on their websites and computer systems, to be as helpful as possible; it is also about how, where there is a problem, it is escalated up the management trail. Most hon. Members, and certainly the people we represent, have a hell of a job getting to anyone these days who has any authority to sort out problems. If that can be done quickly, it is all to the good.
The other main point that I wanted to make—because we are all of a mind, here, about the need for substantial progress—is that it is not only training and process that are crucial, but also the interface between different organisations and agencies. It is okay having a go at airlines, but they have a problem with the implementation of European regulations by airports, and whether the airports take the issue seriously. Ann Bates, a wheelchair user whom I now know well, as she serves on the advisory committee that I chair, is advising Gatwick, and has made progress with others working at Gatwick to improve the situation. She rightly points out that we may have the best will in the world about the booking facility, the way people’s needs are taken into account and the way they are helped on to the aircraft, and the changes that the hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys mentioned, to do with using technology imaginatively; but if people in different organisations, and different service deliverers, have not got their act together, the individual who is being served will not be in a good place.
The surveys show that the biggest grumblers are blind people. That may have something to do with the fact that I have discovered over many years that those who cannot see are pretty good at grumbling, on the whole; or it might have something to do with the fact that people who cannot see are assumed not to be able to walk either. I am sure that that happens to deaf people, and that people with motor difficulties are thought to be deaf, and are shouted at; but I cannot count the number times in the past 40 years when I have been offered a wheelchair at airports. If I were to tether the dog to the front of the wheelchair I could do a pretty good job in the winter of having a sledge; but it is not a lot of use on the day. In the end the issue is about building in processes from the beginning, thinking through the likely problems and dealing with them, and being able to deal with such matters at a senior management level—and it is about common sense. Common sense is thinking “How would I want to be dealt with? How would I want my problems and challenges to be overcome if I were in that situation?” and then doing something about it.
Finally, I hope that the Department will consider how it can help with the process of getting everyone who has a part to play to get their act together. Individual airlines, or even the airlines joining together—which would be a miracle—can do their bit. European regulation, and the implementation of existing national legislation, can make a massive difference; but getting the systems joined up would take us that extra mile and would ensure that in future people do not have the kinds of experiences that have been described this afternoon.
Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Brooke, and I am delighted to speak in this debate, which was begun extremely well by the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans). I congratulate him on securing the debate, which has been wide-ranging but very consensual.
As my right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) suggested, there is a lot of excellent practice. All of us in our travels will have observed excellent people working in the aviation and travel industries who provide excellent support for disabled travellers. However, that is not consistently expected and delivered. As my right hon. Friend said there have been improvements for disabled people in rail and, to a lesser extent, bus travel—but not enough. The need to improve the quality of the aviation experience is particularly pertinent to ensuring that disabled people attain the independence and freedom of travel that they deserve.
Air travel is still one of the most regulated and expensive forms of travel, and even able-bodied members of the public are dependent on the assistance and advice of airline staff throughout their journey—I certainly am when I travel, and I suspect that that goes for all of us. The situation for those with a disability when the approach is not right can often be intimidating and unpredictable. As the hon. Gentleman said, everyone should be able to expect freedom of movement to enable them to work, live and travel throughout the world. He reminded us of the fantastic performance of Paralympians, which shows us what everyone can achieve, and the importance of taking everyone as they are, and according them dignity when supporting them in travelling.
The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who chairs the all-party group on young disabled people, was, as always, passionate, moving and informative in what he said. The Trailblazers have done an excellent job in providing a report that challenges the aviation industry and all of us. As my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) said, we cannot measure progress by the number of complaints, although dealing with complaints provides a process that help us to review the performance of services. Far more important and far more enterprising, however, is the sort of activity that Trailblazers has engaged in, in which young people with disabilities themselves lead the questioning and the charge for improvements in service. That is to be applauded.
In my own experience in the education sphere, where there have been great strides in dealing with disability, I found that by asking questions about how well we opened doors to ensure the best possible deal for disabled learners, what we actually did was to ensure the best possible deal for everyone. The issue is access and transforming services, so if we ask the questions about disabled travellers and get the right answers for them, we will benefit not only disabled travellers but all travellers. To put disabled travellers at the heart of the questioning, as Trailblazers has, is to get the right answers for them and for all travellers. That is a powerful tool for improving the quality of all services.
The hon. Member for Weaver Vale reminded us of the different stages of a journey, and many Members who contributed to the debate rehearsed those stages— the booking process, travel to the airport and getting to the point of departure—as well as the need to make improvements. The hon. Gentleman rightly also highlighted issues such as information being properly available, wheelchairs being damaged, in particular in transit, and of better training leading to improvements. Training was a consistent theme of many hon. Members’ contribution to the debate. Training at the different parts of the process and asking the questions about the disabled traveller will improve the quality of the service given to disabled travellers and, as I was saying, to all travellers. The hon. Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys talked about the disconnects in the process, and that is a useful concept. We should not have disconnects when we move from one point to the next in the process. If people put disabled passengers at the heart of things, disconnects are less likely to be exposed.
The hon. Member for Weaver Vale talked about the importance of priority boarding becoming more commonplace, but that could be improved further. I am interested to hear what the Minister has to say about how that can be developed.
The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) spoke with his usual passion. He drew attention to some of the difficulties that travellers have suffered and gave testimony of both good and poor practice. He also described how often quite small improvements can make a massive difference to the quality of the travelling experience. That returns us to what my right hon. Friend said about how, taken together, good training and looking carefully at systems can bring about improvements in service.
My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), with a ten-minute rule Bill earlier in the year, drew attention to the experience of one of his constituents with both a colostomy and a urostomy who suffered great indignity at an airport. That is not acceptable. I am interested to know what progress the Minister has made to ensure that such issues during travel are better tackled, so that people are dealt with appropriately and with dignity. As the hon. Member for Strangford said in relation to treating the veterans of armed conflict properly as they go through airports, security can be maintained without imperilling dignity. The proper balance can be achieved.
The Equality Act 2010 applies to all facilities and services provided by airports, but does not extend to aircraft. Improvements could be made there. The obvious purpose of airports is to facilitate air travel, so it seems inconsistent to enforce the Equality Act for a person using services in an airport, but to remove that person’s rights from the moment they enter an aircraft. Regulation goes a long way to ensure that people with disabilities or reduced mobility are not discriminated against by airlines but, as we have heard in the debate, the issue is to do with how the provisions are implemented and carried out. How is the CAA encouraged to ensure proper compliance or to celebrate and reward best practice? What is the Department for Transport’s role in celebrating and encouraging best practice, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan asked?
All in all, the most proactive engagement is needed to ensure that disabled travellers have a better deal. Many questions have been asked by right hon. and hon. Members, and I am sure that the Minister will encourage us all with his response.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) on introducing the debate and setting out his stall most effectively. It has been a good debate, with a large number of constructive comments from all the Members who have contributed. I assure Members that I take the issue seriously, as does the Department for Transport and the Government generally. I shall respond to the points made as best I can.
To be clear from the start, the Government agrees that it is important for airlines and airports to be sensitive to the needs of disabled people. As a minimum, they must comply with the European regulation that has been enacted to protect the interests of people with disabilities, though that in itself is not enough. I very much agree with the comments made by a number of Members today, including the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett), that while we have seen significant improvements under successive Governments in bus and rail travel—I am not pretending everything is perfect, but a lot of improvements have been made—what is happening with the airlines is lagging behind. That is the biggest challenge for travellers with disabilities.
Let me set out the legal position. Aviation is an international business. Almost all the issues that arise are common throughout the world, and a substantial body of international law, whether created by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, the European Union or individual member states, exists to support and help aviation passengers. For those people who are disabled or have reduced mobility, from whatever cause, European regulation 1107/2006 establishes their rights. The regulation is fully supported by the UK Government and has applicability in UK law under a statutory instrument, S.I. 2007, No. 1895.
The European regulation concerns the rights of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility when travelling by air. It gives rights to disabled air travellers, including the right to assistance at airports and on board planes, and imposes legal obligations on airports, airlines and their agents or tour operators in respect of the service that they provide to disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility. To guarantee such assistance, passengers are required to provide notification to the airline of their needs at least 48 hours in advance. If no notification is given, airports and airlines are required to make all reasonable efforts to provide assistance. Forty-eight hours is a long time, and people obviously want to be as spontaneous as they can, so that is a challenge. The rail industry, for example, has done a great deal to reduce the time of pre-notification, so I hope that that issue might be improved in future.
The regulation is directly applicable in UK law and the Civil Aviation Authority has powers to enforce the regulation in the UK. Any company found to be in breach of its obligations could be subject to prosecution. On disability, it is fair to say that the EU and the USA are further advanced with legislative measures to secure rights to access and help for disabled air passengers.
The International Civil Aviation Organisation has also taken an interest in this area in its guidance, and we are engaging with it to share best practice, although even best practice leaves questions to be answered.
To help the UK air transport industry to comply with its obligations, the Department for Transport produced a code of practice, “Access to Air Travel for Disabled Persons and Persons with Reduced Mobility”, along with a passenger booklet, “Your Rights to Fly—What you need to know”. The code incorporates the legal requirements and recommendations—for example, offering best practice as a way forward—but the Government expects the industry to adopt the recommendations unless there are practical reasons that make it unreasonable to do so. Interpretive guidance is available on the regulation from the European Commission.
We want all disabled passengers and those with reduced mobility to experience as pleasant a flight as possible. To achieve that, we must always be alert to upcoming issues and try to identify them quickly. We must certainly persuade and cajole the industry to follow our guidance, and we must enforce that when necessary. All those involved in transporting disabled passengers should be sensitive and aware. I appreciate that that may not always be the case. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said that he was disgusted by the attitude of some airlines. I hope that that is not a general experience, but I accept that there may sometimes be insensitivity that could be improved on.
The right hon. Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough referred to training and process, and there has been a great deal of work on that in other transport modes such as rail and buses. The airlines may be marginally lagging behind on that front. All customer-facing staff should be well trained, and use kindness and common sense. We must be aware of when dignity might be compromised, and minimise that as far as possible. We must also be realistic and pragmatic about the limitations and difficulties facing airlines that may not apply to other forms of transport.
Airlines can refuse a booking only if accepting it would break safety rules or the size of the plane or its doors makes boarding or carriage physically impossible. Paragraph 1(a) of article 4 of the regulation authorises air carriers to derogate from the principle of non-discrimination and to refuse to accept a reservation from or to embark a person with reduced mobility, or require that person to be accompanied by another person to meet applicable safety requirements. That is a sensitive point for some, but whether we like it or not—I do not—there may be tension between disability rights and safety requirements, and we must accept that. Our efforts must be to try to minimise that as far as possible. The CAA has the task of enforcing the regulation and works hard to ensure that airlines deliver both safety and individuals’ right to travel as freely as possible.
Various tensions must be managed. Electric mobility devices can catch fire on board. In an emergency, it must be possible to evacuate an aircraft quickly. Personal wheelchairs would not be crash resistant to sit in during flight, so they cannot be used at present. There may be steps that could be taken to secure them adequately, but that has not yet been achieved. That is why we must consider a combination of pragmatism affecting disability rights and safety requirements.
There are physical limitations of aircraft type, and it has been noted that aircraft are purchased and constructed to last a long time. Some of the requirements that we want on an aircraft now may not have been thought of when it was built. There have been problems with rail vehicles, and that is the case even more with planes. The regulation provides a specific derogation and allows a carrier, its agent or a tour operator not to accept a reservation from a disabled person if that would not comply with the nature of the plane.
The CAA is the UK’s aviation regulator for all European Union aviation consumer protection law and the enforcer of EU regulation 1107/2006. This summer, the CAA took over responsibility for handling disabled passenger complaints and offers advice about all issues concerning disability travel. The aviation health unit at the CAA gives advice to GPs and to members of the public who may have questions about whether they are fit to fly.
The CAA is continuing to develop its capacity to help and to support passengers. It is actively engaged with airlines and airports in seeking to improve service levels and is conducting its own inquiries into those areas where further improvements are needed. It has set up a new consumer advisory panel to act as a critical friend of the regulator as it moves forward to putting the consumer at the heart of its regulatory efforts.
Hon. Members may know that the CAA announced in April that the chair of the new panel will be Keith Richards, and he is now in post. Mr Richards—he is not the Rolling Stone—has considerable experience of disabled air passenger issues, having been chair of the aviation working group at the disabled persons transport advisory committee for many years, as well as being a former head of consumer affairs at the Association of British Travel Agents. In the autumn, the full panel of nine members was appointed, and the new body has already held its first meeting.
The hon. Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) asked about DPTAC. There has been consultation about its future, and we have now received the responses, which are being analysed in the Department. We will make a statement in due course. No decisions have been made at this point, other than to have consultation, which I think has been completed.
The hon. Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi), who is no longer in her place, asked whether the CAA should be required to produce an annual report. The proposed powers in the Civil Aviation Bill will enable it to facilitate comparisons across airlines. It will have a clear role in sharing and encouraging best practice. It has plans in place to share complaint data with disability groups to facilitate development of best practice. What we are doing in the Bill will be useful in taking forward the steps that right hon. and hon. Members rightly want.
I draw attention to the new CAA functions on information about aviation services in clauses 83 to 93 of the Bill. New publication powers are also crucial in putting the environmental concerns of passengers and the public at the forefront of the CAA’s core business. Without the provisions in the Bill, the CAA can publish guidance and advice only about its or the Secretary of State’s functions. Some operators may already publish data on their services, but many use varying and incompatible measures. Others choose to do less. The Bill, which is being debated in the other place today, will for the first time give the CAA a duty to publish performance and environmental data that are transparent, objective and consistent. That will allow consumers easily to compare operators and to fill gaps when the industry has not provided information. That is a useful tool to drive up performance.
A number of issues were raised that I will try to address. Some hon. Members asked about passengers’ dignity. We accept absolutely that that is important. On the matter raised by the hon. Member for Strangford, we are not aware of regular requirements for strip searches being a problem. If such a search is necessary, it should certainly be done discreetly in a private area. If the hon. Gentleman is concerned about a particular airport or airline, he is welcome to let us know and we will pass it on to the CAA to take forward. We would not want that to become a problem unnecessarily.
The hon. Member for Bolton South East asked whether passengers could be met at car parks. Pre-notification is the key, as always, but passengers should be able to be met and supported as needed. Pre-notification makes that possible, but again if right hon. and hon. Members believe that good practice is not being followed, they should let the Department or the CAA know and we will pursue individual matters as they are brought to our attention.
The hon. Member for Strangford also said that airlines could do some simple things if they had a bit of compassion. I hope that they do not lack compassion—I am sure that most do not—but I agree entirely that some simple steps could be taken to improve matters. Often, they can be done by changing a process, which may not even be costly. If he has suggestions, I am happy to pass them on.
The Department is certainly open to that and to making suggestions to the industry when they are brought to our attention. Indeed, some of the best comments have come from organisations such as Trailblazers, and I was pleased with its useful report. Frankly, some of the statistics that it referred to are rather disturbing, and the industry needs to respond sensibly to those. I know that the CAA has that in its sights and will look at what might be done, within its powers, to take that matter forward. For example, there is no reason or excuse for the number of wheelchairs apparently being damaged in transit, as hon. Members mentioned. The fact that British airlines have a better record on compensating passengers is a good point, but it is no substitute for wheelchairs being damaged in the first place. Steps can be taken, and ICAO technical instructions relate to wheelchairs and to medical and health equipment being carried. There is, of course, a remedy for wheelchairs being damaged, but as I said, that is not a substitute for them being carried properly in the first place.
I agree that airlines and airports need to do more to try and avoid unnecessary obstacles to seamless travel for individual passengers, in so far as that can be achieved. It is not good enough if people have to wait four hours for a wheelchair to be moved 25 yards, as my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) pointed out in a very passionate and useful contribution. I take his point that there is a need to look at the definition of accessible, so that people can understand what it means. That is an important point.
On what the Government is doing generally, I add that we are in the process of producing a transport accessibility strategy, which will cover all modes of transport. It will build on the work of successive previous Governments—both the Government that introduced the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and the previous Government, which did good work in this area. As hon. Members have said, this is not a party issue. All Members feel strongly about it, and we want to get the best results that we can. The strategy will appear in the not-too-distant future.
I am sorry, by the way, that my hon. Friend is leaving the Select Committee on Transport. Is that right?
Norman Baker
That is a great pity, because my hon. Friend’s contributions to that Committee have been very useful. I have no idea whose decision that was—if it was the Whips’, I think that it is the wrong one—but I thank him for his work.
An issue was raised about an aircraft on which an accessible toilet was down a spiral staircase. I should put it on record that although there is a toilet down the spiral staircase, there is another, more accessible toilet on that type of plane. It is some distance away at the other end of the cabin, but it is actually on the same flight level—to put the record straight on that point.
The hon. Member for Wigan asked about accessibility of public transport generally, and I hope that I have dealt with that matter. If she has particular issues about rail or bus travel, she can draw them to my attention, but we are making progress. We have kept the targets for replacing vehicles on the railways and buses, to make sure they are fully accessible. Those targets have not been changed and we are making good progress towards achieving them. We have also put further moneys into the Access for All programme—£100 million for the next control period for the railways—to ensure that further improvements are made to the railway station infrastructure in this country, so that fewer people encounter problems getting through stations, which I am afraid can be an issue.
I entirely agree with the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), who said that in his view, what benefits the disabled traveller benefits all travellers. That is exactly the right analysis, whether it applies to information on buses and trains or to physical access. Until I became a father and had to cart a buggy up and down stairs, I had never realised how many stairs there were at underground stations, nor had I realised how inaccessible some of them are. If we are able-bodied, we do not necessarily understand or appreciate the difficulties that some of our fellow citizens face. Putting the disabled person centre stage, as far as we can, is a sensible strategy to take forward, and I hope that we will do that in our general accessibility strategy.
I hope that I have answered most of the points that hon. Members have made in today’s debate, and I thank them again for their comments. I hope that it is clear from what I have said that no one is complacent, that the UK is fully engaged with these issues and that the CAA is doing an increasingly effective job in developing its consumer support function. There is, of course, always more that can be done. Pre-notification of requirements is key. Airlines need to know what disabled customers’ needs are, so that they can prepare for them, but having been notified of them, we would expect airlines to deliver on those requirements as far as possible. The CAA and ABTA have done good work in highlighting that need. It is much better to have pre-notification than to leave matters to best endeavours on the day.
I am pleased that the CAA is taking forward work in a number of other areas. For example, it has helped in the introduction of the Medical Engineering Resource Unit TravelChair, which is a specialist seat for disabled children that fits into a normal aircraft, and in discussing the introduction of a British Standards Institution standard for air travel for wheelchair users. Those are important extra steps towards making the air journeys of disabled passengers and those with reduced mobility more pleasant.
I thank the hon. Member for Weaver Vale again for securing the debate, as well as all Members who have contributed today.
Annette Brooke (in the Chair)
Thank you, Minister, and all Members for an excellent debate.