Daniel Morgan Independent Panel Report

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

The hon. Lady is right that the rapid recruitment has put strains on the system, but we have been monitoring it very closely to ensure that the system is able to cope, and I believe that it is. I know she is not suggesting that the vast majority of recruits are not right-thinking and correct in their values, and I hope and believe that is the case. One of the improvements that the inspectorate did note that the Metropolitan police has achieved over the past couple of years is an elimination almost of the vetting backlog, which just three or four years ago stood at something like 37,000, astonishingly. That has now been almost eliminated. That is a silver lining to the cloud of this report. As far as vetting is concerned, we have debated that just recently in the House. There are improvements that need to be made, not least on the monitoring of social media, which has just started in the Metropolitan police. It is an area to which we need to pay constant attention if we are to build that trust with London’s communities.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

This review today is rightly about what the Metropolitan police is doing now, but it has resulted from the Daniel Morgan report, and there are still outstanding issues arising from that report, as referred to by the right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), who is no longer in her place. Indeed, my constituent, a former serving police officer, approached me for support because he had a complaint in relation to his treatment by the Metropolitan police while he was involved in the Morgan inquiry, and he has had no satisfactory outcome. He has now approached the IOPC. Will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can get some degree of finding for my constituent?

[Kit Malthouse]

I am hesitant to intervene in an independent process. Given the hon. Lady’s experience in policing, she will know that. If she thinks a meeting with me and her constituent would be useful once the IOPC has concluded, I would be more than happy to do so.

Delivering Justice for Victims

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Tom Pursglove]

I am grateful to my constituency neighbour, who is ever innovative in his questions. It is fair to say that many leaflets have gone out over the years with both of us on them to campaign for more police officers out on the beat catching criminals and deterring crime, which is exactly what we are delivering and what people in Corby and east Northamptonshire want.

We have an excellent police, fire and crime commissioner in Northamptonshire, Stephen Mold. I would urge Stephen to take part in this consultation and to get across the experiences and issues of victims in Northamptonshire so they can be reflected in this work and so we can get the policy right for residents in Northamptonshire and across the country.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

As a former police officer trained in the handling of sexual offences, I know very well that victims must be at the heart of the criminal justice process. Allowing victims to prerecord evidence is a key part of that, and it already happens in Scotland. The Home Affairs Committee discussed the section 28 pilot last week, and concerns were raised in evidence that barristers and recorders have been unable to take on cases because the system is not sitting well alongside the standard court process. I am grateful for the outline of how the Government intend to implement section 28 further, but will the Minister advise me on what impact this feedback is likely to have on the roll-out?

[Tom Pursglove]

I thank the hon. Lady for welcoming the section 28 reforms, and she is right that the reforms are pivotal to helping victims to come forward and to give their best evidence so we can secure prosecutions. She will appreciate that we are consistently discussing these matters with the judiciary, who, obviously, have a significant role in implementing this policy. We will make more detail on that known as the roll-out progresses, but I can assure her that these angles are being looked at closely and those discussions are ongoing.

Security Update

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. First, the type of appalling abuse that we have seen online is abhorrent and unacceptable. I still find it incredible that—actually, through many anonymous platforms as well—the most cruel and appalling abuse comes towards elected Members of Parliament of all backgrounds, but female MPs have been subjected to the most appalling abuse, and there should be no tolerance of that whatsoever.

There is work taking place through Mr Speaker’s office and the wider parliamentary security teams around online profiling—I think that is probably the best phrase to use—linked to looking at MPs’ profiles online and giving all MPs support when they are subjected to abuse and harassment online. Many of those measures are already in place—the right hon. Lady, and hon. and right hon. colleagues, will be aware of that—but there will be further information coming to all colleagues about what more will be done on that basis, how they can be assured and how they engage with the teams in Parliament.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I thank the Home Secretary for her statement, but I will pick up with her, after the statement, a particular MP’s case in this regard. We are 650 individuals representing 650 constituencies covered by a number of police forces. To pick up on the comments by the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), there is a variety of support available to us. What I want to ask the Home Secretary is: what support will be in place for individual forces to help Members to make the right decisions about the support that is available to them? It is not for MPs to decide what is the best support; it is about taking those recommendations on the threat assessment, so we can take appropriate and proportionate support to protect ourselves and our staff.

[Priti Patel]

The hon. Lady makes a very important point, but what I would say is that this is at a national level. All police forces, through Operation Bridger, are absolutely engaged. There is national policing leadership through Counter Terrorism Policing and the National Police Chiefs Council—she will be familiar with the structures around that, in particular. Part of this work—I would like to emphasise this to all colleagues—is ensuring consistency across the United Kingdom and across all police forces for all Members of Parliament. That is why I stood up this work over the weekend: to ensure that all hon. Members and right hon. Members had been contacted, particularly as we were in a weekend situation with Members out and about in their constituencies, plus looking ahead to this weekend and future weekends—consistency of communication, consistency of advice, consistency of support to all Members and docking in with the wider parliamentary security that is stood up through the Parliamentary Liaison and Investigation Team and through Mr Speaker’s office.

Finally, I emphasise to all MPs that, as ever, through the discussions and dialogues they have with their police leads and their police forces, particularly in constituencies, the support and resources are absolutely in place—they are there. However, in the light of the changing threat, the changing and evolving picture, resources and guidance will constantly change should we need to do anything else in terms of advice and support for Members of Parliament. This is an agile system. I hope all Members have seen that in the response and support they received in a very short and concentrated period of time post Friday. We will continue to update all Members and that will come not just from the parliamentary side here, but at a local level through their local police forces.

Strategy for Tackling Violence Against Women and Girls

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I am so grateful to my hon. Friend, who does so much work in her constituency to help women and girls and to tackle these heinous crimes. We very much want, through the strategy, to build on the existing relationships and sex education that is now mandatory in every school. Indeed, only yesterday I visited Uplands Primary School in Sandhurst and learned about Pantosaurus, the dinosaur who wears pants. That is the first lesson that children as young as five and six have at that school to start to understand about personal privacy, safeguarding and what is healthy and what is not. We are determined that such education continues at school, but of course we have to reach beyond school, which is why there are measures in the strategy such as a public communications campaign and reaching out to universities. We want to try to reach the wider public with some of the attitudes that we all find so concerning.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

The strategy published today includes a proposal for a new national policing lead on violence against women and girls, but it does not clarify whether this person will have any meaningful powers to improve police practice. The Minister referred to the fact that this was a recommendation from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and fire and rescue services, but will she tell us what relationship she sees the lead having with HMICRFS? For example, will they have input into its inspections? What powers will the lead have to investigate and address problems within police forces where they have not been reaching best practice? Will the lead have a role in reviewing the recording of aggravations of misogyny, as the Government agreed to do earlier this year?

[Victoria Atkins]

As the hon. Lady will know, the inspectorate’s report landed a matter of days, perhaps only a week, ago. We are working through these details, but, as I say, we have absolutely accepted the inspectorate’s recommendation that there should be a national policy lead whose sole focus is eliminating violence against women and girls.

EU Settlement Scheme

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

The EU settlement scheme should never have needed to be put in place, and it is a travesty that our European friends and neighbours who have been living lawfully in this country, in some cases for many decades, should be forced into a situation where they have to apply for, and prove, their basic rights. The hon. Member for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew), who I have the pleasure of following, hailed the scheme as a success, but he neglected to mention that the Government underestimated by 100% the number of EU citizens actually in the UK. Members of this Government promised that nothing would change—a promise that was quickly broken. The situation is now only worsening for the citizens to whom that promise was made and who are now arguably subject to a hostile environment. I noted the comments from the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Virginia Crosbie), who is no longer in her place, on the steps that the Home Office had taken, but it does not sound like a particularly warm welcome to require those in coercive relationships to detail such trauma to prove that they have the right to stay in this country.

I have been inundated with correspondence from constituents to do with the EU settlement scheme, and I find it hard to believe that Conservative Members have not also heard from their constituents about that. I have heard from constituents who are appalled by the scheme and the risk it poses to their European friends and neighbours, and from those who are struggling to apply to the scheme themselves. I wrote to the Home Secretary on their behalf last month to highlight the issues that they raised, and I know that other Members have raised some of those issues this afternoon.

Those issues included, first, glitches on the app preventing the applications from being made. The Home Office has proudly said that it will be a digital system that will benefit EU citizens, but if the app does not work now, it is hard to trust that the system will work later. Secondly, there was supposed to be easy access to paper forms for those who need them. There are lots of reasons for people to need a paper form even when the app is working properly, but they can often be accessed only by phoning the helpline and getting them sent out in the post. That is ridiculous for a system that is meant to be making the most of digital technology, and disastrous for those who needed to apply by the deadline but could not get through on the helpline.

A third issue was that people had been unable to reach an adviser on the EU settlement scheme resolution centre helpline. I have received letters from those in considerable distress, because they are trying to apply for the scheme but either need assistance or have called the helpline repeatedly throughout the day over multiple days and have never been able to get through.

Finally, I sought an assurance that those who were unable to apply through no fault of their own would not be subject to a hostile environment. Some weeks later, and past the deadline to apply, I have yet to receive a response. I therefore ask the Minister to provide an update in his closing remarks on when that will be forthcoming.

Here we are, one week past the deadline to apply, and I, like many Members, am still hearing about these problems. I have been working with the organisation Fife4europe, which works with EU citizens from across the kingdom of Fife, covering not just my constituency of North East Fife but those of Dunfermline and West Fife, Glenrothes, and Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath. In my most recent conversation with the organisation earlier today, I was told about a number of issues that people are continuing to have with the scheme. I heard stories of parents not knowing they needed to apply for a child; of people being unable to access passports due to the closure of embassies; of incomprehensible forms and legal terminology; and, again, of that inability to get through to the resolution centre. These are not case studies for a campaign; they are anecdotes about what is happening to friends and neighbours, and I have no doubt that there are those experiencing the same thing throughout my constituency and the country as a whole.

I have also heard a huge amount of fear and confusion over how to apply and what might happen if the deadline was missed. What if those people were unable to access and fully complete the written forms? What about those people who have been unable to get the appropriate evidence to support their application by the cut-off point? I have heard that many people have ultimately put in incomplete applications just to get a certificate of application and get more time to jump over the hurdles set for them by the Home Office. By the deadline last week, there was an estimated backlog of 400,000 cases, and it is now estimated to be up to 570,000, according to the latest statistics.

It is clear the Home Office’s inflexibility is just creating extra work for itself and adding to the anxiety of those left in limbo—and it is indeed limbo. The Home Office is providing a certificate of application, but that does nothing to demonstrate somebody’s long-term rights to potential landlords or employers. Landlords and employers are looking for candidates who will be around in six months’ time, and it would be understandable for them to prefer those candidates who can give that guarantee. I ask the Minister: what steps are being taken to deal with this backlog and when will the uncertainty be over for those hundreds of thousands of people?

What happens to those who were missed: those who did not know about the scheme despite the advertising, those who are not on the electoral roll or those who do not use the internet? The cut-off disproportionately impacts the vulnerable, those in social care, the old, the young, looked-after children and care leavers: those who need extra support but have now been made subject to the hostile environment. What support is there for them? What are this Government doing to ensure that those rights are upheld?

Even when somebody has managed to apply, we know that it is not plain sailing. We have been told time and time again that this is a digital status because that is easier, cheaper and safer, but it seems to be far from easy to make changes to that status—changes that are foreseeable over the course of a lifetime, such as getting new a passport with a new ID number, or getting married and changing one’s name. Can the Minister explain how something that we were told was so simple can be more cumbersome than getting a new passport?

Speaking of ID cards, this Government seem happy to produce some ID cards, so why do they continue to reject physical proof of status? We are happy to use vaccine passports. If the Government say that they can find the money to produce voter ID cards, does the Minister agree that providing EU citizens with a usable physical proof of status is not too much of an ask? Clearly, much more needs to be done.

Daniel Morgan Independent Panel Report

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 15th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Priti Patel]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. It is important that we spend some time considering the full report and its recommendations. Given that it has taken eight years to be published, we need to spend a great deal of time understanding the processes and why there was such slowness in sharing information, papers and evidence bases. That is why it is important that I hold the commissioner to account and ask the right questions, as I will do this afternoon. As I have said, it is important that, first of all, we seek answers to many outstanding questions, and that we question and find out what has happened in policing conduct over three decades.

On the right hon. Lady’s point about duty of candour, there is absolutely more to do here. When we look at accountability, institutions of the state and public conduct, we cannot shy away from asking some difficult questions, and reforming how we work and how our institutions are publicly held to account.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

Like other hon. Members, my thoughts are with the Morgan family on this most difficult of days. As a former police officer, I am saddened, but sadly not surprised, by the findings of the report in relation to police corruption; the minority behaviours tarnish the work of so many brave serving police officers. I note the Home Secretary’s intended actions in relation to the Metropolitan police and Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary, but I reiterate the shadow Home Secretary’s call for clarity on the expected timescales for this work, and also on the expectations on the Metropolitan police in relation to active ongoing complaints linked to the Morgan case. The Morgan family have waited 34 years. How long must they wait to see real meaningful change?

[Priti Patel]

I respect and acknowledge the hon. Lady’s points. She is right to highlight timeframes, bearing in mind the painful period of time that the Morgan family have had to wait for the publication of this report. I can, at this stage, reiterate the comment that I made earlier, which is that I will come back to the House at the earliest opportunity with the information. That is absolutely right, and it is also important for the family that that information is shared with them, and that we learn the lessons associated with this independent report.

Antisocial Behaviour (Vehicles)

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Monday 14th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Elliot Colburn]

I completely agree with the hon. Lady’s point about reporting. I will come on to that later in my speech, but something the Metropolitan police have in place, which I find very helpful, is an online reporting system that does not require residents to phone 999 or even 101 to report a crime. I have found it much easier to persuade residents to report more regularly through that online system, because they do not feel like they are harassing the police, taking up too much of their time or being a burden by reporting something that they think is small, but that is causing them grief. Perhaps the Minister will address in her closing remarks whether we can use that example from the Metropolitan police across other police forces, because it has been a useful tool. Of course, there is always more to do.

I was talking about the impact on residents who live near Roundshaw Downs. It has had an impact on me, because I regularly use the downs to walk my two dogs, Willow and Lola, but have become more and more apprehensive about doing so. That concern is shared by Sutton Rovers football club, which is based at the site. This is not a new issue—residents tell me that it has been going on since before I was elected—but lockdown has exacerbated the problem incredibly. It has clearly gone way beyond a small band of young people looking for a quick thrill and become something more organised.

Perhaps this will explain why. Roundshaw Downs is a 52.7 hectare site of metropolitan importance for nature conservation and nature reserve, based on the site of the old Croydon airport. Some of the old airport remains there today. It is the largest area of unimproved chalk grassland in the borough and, as such, it provides an extremely valuable nature conservation resource for insects, birds and wild flowers—my partner Jed and I particularly enjoy the cows at the southern end of the downs. However, that also makes it very attractive for those who want to use vehicles in an antisocial way.

I will talk through some of the reports I have received from residents about the impact this issue has had on them. Residents have said to me that they are too frightened to walk in the area. The noise has led some to say that it feels like they are living next to a racetrack. They speak of the destruction of the local environment and habitats, including those of breeding pheasants and skylarks—which, by the way, are a red list species for protection—in the area where the activity has been occurring, as well as other illicit activities such as littering and drug use. There have been serious safety concerns about use of the downs as well. One resident tells me that they have experienced verbal abuse and threats simply for walking on the public pathway. There has sadly been at least one appalling incident of violence against a dog walker, when they were physically assaulted by someone riding a motorcycle.

The Metropolitan police, to their credit, have stepped up patrols where possible, and have even conducted helicopter flyovers. They have managed to stop some people, remind them of the law and seize vehicles, and so on. However, these are expensive and temporary measures, at best. Antisocial behaviour is not reduced solely by reactive police activity; it needs to be tackled by working together with local authorities and communities to introduce preventive measures to stop it happening in the first place.

That has proven difficult because Roundshaw Downs straddles the boundary of the London boroughs of Croydon and Sutton. For well over a year, I have attempted to get both councils in a room with the police to thrash out a solution. Sadly, neither council has been forthcoming.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I associate myself with the comments of the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones)—I am very sorry to hear about the hon. Gentleman’s wedding. I am a former police officer and I know the damage that antisocial behaviour does, but I want to press him on his point about Sutton Council. I know that my Liberal Democrat colleagues on Sutton Council are working hard to stop the offenders. My understanding is that the hon. Gentleman refused a briefing from the ward councillor leading on the issue. If he is as passionate about solving it as he seems to be tonight, would he not better serve his constituents by working with local councillors?

[Elliot Colburn]

I am happy to correct the hon. Lady. I asked for the meeting to take place, and it was actually the Liberal Democrat ward councillor who blocked me from attending, so I am afraid she has been given incorrect information. But that proves the point I was going on to: only the police have bothered to engage with me properly on this issue; the councils have been engaged in politicking and game playing, and residents are suffering as a result, because the Lib Dem council is unwilling to work with the Conservative MP.

Criminal Justice Review: Response to Rape

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Tuesday 25th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that one of the key issues that we have to address is what they call “victim attrition”, which is a slightly depersonalised, desensitised phrase for victims not feeling that they are going to get justice and giving up along the way. I was very pleased that the Government announced a massive increase in the amount of money being given to create the posts of independent sexual violence advisers and domestic abuse advisers, who will help to support victims through the criminal justice system to make sure that they get to court in good shape and able to give the evidence that they wish to give. There will be more about this issue in the review and I hope that, when it comes, he will welcome it.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

Despite the reasoning, the long delay in publishing the Government’s review of rape cases is emblematic of the chronic delays throughout the criminal justice system that are denying survivors justice and allowing rapists to walk free. The results of the analysis initiated by my hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) are shocking. As a former sexual offences trained police officer, I think that what these statistics make clear is that police and prosecutors need more resources and training to bring perpetrators to justice, whether that means supporting survivors, handling investigations sensitively, analysing digital evidence or countering damaging stereotypes. The Minister talked in his response about this being part of ongoing work, so what are the Government doing now to deliver?

[Kit Malthouse]

I agree with the hon. Lady about resources and training. The development of expertise, which she obviously had in her career, is a key part of the Crown Prosecution Service and National Police Chiefs’ Council joint national action plan. We see better results from specialist teams, and often those structural issues that allow police officers to stay in post for longer, and develop an expertise in what my hon. Friend will know is a difficult and sensitive area of investigation, are critical. We must also ensure that the CPS is able to develop that specialism, and that will be a critical part of the joint national action plan.

Daniel Morgan: Independent Panel Report

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Ways and Means resolution & Programme motion
Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

I thank the hon. Lady for bringing forward the very human aspect of this. I know that we are talking about a report and a review process, but at the heart of this has been the family. In fairness, if one looks at the written ministerial statement issued by the then Home Secretary when the review was announced, one sees that it was made clear that the family must be at the heart of the process. The review has taken eight years, and as my right hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid), the previous Home Secretary, set out to the hon. Lady, we could not—would not—interfere with the conduct of that review. That is why, in a way, we are in the position we are in. The panel has its report; it has, we have been told, now finalised the report; under the terms, we will receive the report and then publish it. The only caveat is in relation to national security considerations—for which, in fairness, the Home Secretary has responsibility in a whole host of regards. However, that is the only caveat, so the report will be published. We look forward to receiving it from the panel, and I hope it will give answers to the hon. Lady’s constituent and to others.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

It is well established that there were significant failings and delays in investigating both the murder of Daniel Morgan and the subsequent claims of corruption and malpractice. As others have said, this is clearly damaging to the family of Daniel Morgan and also others involved in investigations. They include one of my constituents, who has raised serious allegations about the Metropolitan police’s conduct, about which I have written to the Secretary of State on more than one occasion, and to which, frankly, I have received not hugely helpful responses. Now it seems that the Home Office is willing to delay justice and further erode trust in the police service by preventing the truth of these failings from becoming public. Looking forward, will the Minister explain exactly what action she will commit to on behalf of the Home Office to ensure that future investigations are carried out independently, rigorously and timeously, in order to prevent further injustice?

[Victoria Atkins]

I imagine the chair of the panel will say that her review has been conducted independently, rigorously and timeously. The Home Secretary cannot publish a report until she receives it, and that is the situation we are in. We all want answers. These are incredibly important issues that have been raised during the course of the review. A great deal of time has elapsed since the horrific murder of Mr Morgan, and the report I hope will answer some of the questions that have been posed in relation to that.

Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading - Day 1
Monday 15th March 2021 Commons Chamber

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

Like so many others, I was shocked and appalled by the events on Clapham common on Saturday night. It is an outrage that a peaceful vigil in memory of Sarah Everard was shut down because the Met determined not to engage with organisers to ensure that the vigil could pass off safely. It is very difficult to see how the Met could have got it more wrong, and I say that, as many in this House will know, as a former police officer. The leadership have let down rank and file officers and, despite what those on the Government Benches might say, it is right that Cressida Dick should consider her position.

However, there has also been a failure of Government. For the past year, the Government have sustained legislation which prevents people from exercising their fundamental right to protest. That is why my Liberal Democrat colleagues and I will vote against the renewal of the Coronavirus Act 2020 when it comes back before the House, just as we did in September. Our rights matter and the right to protest matters, too. This is a Bill which, just when we should be considering how we dismantle restrictions on the right to protest in the name of public health, instead doubles down on them. The Home Secretary had strong words about the scenes on Saturday, but the reality is that this hastily pulled together legislation will make such scenes more common. The challenge to some of those on the Government Benches who have claimed to be acting in the name of liberty over the last few months is this: will you oppose the Bill, or does liberty only matter to you when it is your liberty and not the liberty of those you disagree with?

Moving on, I want to use my brief time to speak to part 1 of the Bill and its measures concerning the police service. Enshrining the duty of the Home Secretary to produce a police covenant report in law is a very important step for police officers around the country. It is about recognising the realities of policing and the impact it can have on those who undertake those duties. As someone who comes from a policing family, I have seen that first-hand. My father, husband and I were all assaulted in the course of our duties. This year’s Armed Forces Bill legislates for a duty for public bodies to have due regard to the principles of that covenant. That is not something that this Bill is introducing for the police covenant and I would be grateful for further clarification on whether the Government might look to do similar in relation to the covenant in future.

There are other positive steps in the Bill, such as legislating to allow special constables to join the Police Federation. The work of special constables is vital, both as volunteers and in giving back to local communities. In carrying out frontline duties, they face the same dangers and experiences that appointed police officers face. I also support the introduction of road traffic fixed penalty notices in Scotland, as it is good to have UK-wide alignment.

Finally, I turn to the Government’s proposal to double the maximum sentence for assaulting emergency workers. Is an increased penalty for that actually going to reduce assaults on the police? Is somebody in the heat of the moment going to think, “I’m going to get two years for this, as opposed to 12 months?” I doubt that it will. Instead, I worry that there is a risk of getting into a competition, whereby assaulting someone in a particular role means a higher penalty. The fundamental aspect is policing by consent. If we create the right community culture, it should not matter what the penalty is, because the incidence of such crimes should reduce regardless. Our policies on crimes should not be dictated by what plays well to the gallery—they should be evidence-based.