Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill (Eighth sitting)

Tom Hayes Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 30th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I remind the Committee that with this we are discussing the following:

Government amendment 7.

Amendment 29, in clause 23, page 44, line 23, leave out “have” and insert “buy”.

This amendment would enable schools to require pupils to wear more than three branded items of school uniform as long as parents have not had to pay for them.

Amendment 59, in clause 23, page 44, line 24, leave out “three” and insert “two”.

Amendment 30, in clause 23, page 44, line 26, leave out “have” and insert “buy”.

This amendment would enable schools to require pupils to wear more than three branded items of school uniform as long as parents have not had to pay for them.

Amendment 60, in clause 23, page 44, line 27, leave out “three” and insert “two”.

Amendment 61, in clause 23, page 44, line 28, leave out from “year” to end of paragraph.

Amendment 31, in clause 23, page 44, line 29, at end insert—

“(1A) The appropriate authority of a school may require a pupil to buy or replace branded items which have been lost or damaged, or which the pupil has grown out of.”

This amendment would enable schools to require pupils to replace lost or damaged branded items.

Amendment 32, in clause 23, page 44, line 40, at end insert—

“except PE kit or other clothing or items required as part of the school’s provision of physical education lessons”.

Amendment 91, in clause 23, page 44, line 40, at end insert—

“except items of kit required when representing the school in sporting activities”.

Government amendments 8 to 10.

Clause stand part.

New clause 35—VAT zero-rating for certain items of school uniform—

“(1) The Secretary of State must, within 6 months of the passing of this Act, make provision for certain items of school uniform to be zero-rated for the purposes of VAT.

(2) For the purposes of this section, ‘certain items of school uniform’ means items of school uniform for pupils up to the age of 16.”

New clause 56—School uniforms: availability of second-hand items—

“(1) The appropriate authority of a relevant school must ensure that second-hand items of school uniform are made available for sale to the parents of pupils or prospective pupils.

(2) Second-hand items of school uniform may be made available for sale so long as the items—

(a) comply with the school’s current uniform requirements;

(b) are in an acceptable condition; and

(c) can be purchased for significantly less than the cost of buying the same item new.

(3) The appropriate authority must make information on the purchase of second-hand items of school uniform easily available on the school’s website.

(4) In this section—

‘the appropriate authority’ means—

(a) in relation to an Academy school, an alternative provision Academy or a non-maintained special school, the proprietor;

(b) in relation to a maintained school, the governing body;

(c) in relation to a pupil referral unit, the local authority;

‘relevant school’ means a school in England which is—

(a) an Academy school;

(b) an alternative provision Academy;

(c) a maintained school within the meaning of section 437(8) of the Education Act 1996;

(d) a non-maintained special school within the meaning of section 337(A) of the Education Act 1996;

(e) a pupil referral unit not established in a hospital.

‘school uniform’ means any bag or clothing required for school or for any lesson, club, activity or event facilitated by the school.

‘second-hand items’ means items of school uniform which have previously been owned by another pupil, subject to subsection (2).”

[Tom Hayes (Bournemouth East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship this afternoon, Mr Stringer. I was going to speak before the Committee adjourned this morning, and I have dwelled over that break on what to say, because I have been listening carefully to the Opposition spokespeople. I like to think that I strive to be reasonable and I do not want to be excessively party political.

[Hon. Members]

indicated assent.

[Tom Hayes]

There are nods and laughs.

[Neil O'Brien (Harborough, Oadby and Wigston) (Con)]

Sounds good.

[Tom Hayes]

Sounds good, but I want to bring us back, if I may, to reality. We need to do that, because first, all of us in this room would acknowledge that the status quo is not working. I have been a school governor, I have sponsored a mental health project for children and young people, and I know just how hard teachers and support staff work. We all know how fantastic our schools are, but still the status quo is that parents are struggling, and children are suffering.

I was dwelling on what to say particularly because some of this is very personal to me; I grew up as a free school meals kid on a council estate caring for two disabled parents. It is only in recent times that I have started to talk openly about growing up in poverty— I would previously call it “financial hardship”, but that feels too clinical a term. I call it poverty, because if I am now an MP, it is my duty to speak truth and to try to show some inspiration to families locally who may be struggling. That does present its challenges, particularly in the conversations that I have with my mum, because she does not feel comfortable all the time with me talking about growing up in poverty. She feels that somehow it is her son’s way of saying that she did not do well enough, that she failed, and that she let him down in her duties. That shame persists.

I spoke with her last night about my role in this Committee, and what we were discussing and considering today. I told her what I would say if the opportunity arose, and we again navigated that difficult conversation, as I am sure I will do many times in the future. I had to bring it back to the point that she did everything she could; she loved and cared for her sons and tried her best, but ultimately the society that we live in held her back. Despite her best efforts, politics was not there to support her. If somebody at the age of 41, as I am, is having this conversation with their mum so many years later, imagine the conversations that might happen in 30 or 40 years’ time between parents and children, where a parent hears from their child as an adult that they did not get all they needed, and that somehow they were not able to achieve all that they may have wanted.

We need to bring it back to the real world, because, in truth, uniform costs are significant. When I speak with parents locally, they cite uniform costs as a reason why they cannot properly care for their children in the way that they want to. When I told my mum last night that I would be sitting in this Bill Committee, and that a Government would be moving forward with an Act of Parliament to cap the number of uniform items, that said a lot to her. It said that we had her back, that we did not believe that parents who did their best but were held back by poverty were to blame, and that they were not being shamed. For an Act of Parliament to cap the number of uniform items and to reduce the cost for families felt to her—as I know it will feel to many of my constituents—like a hugely symbolic step.

When we talk about politics as a place of disconnection and hopelessness, and of politicians not delivering against what people want, having an Act of Parliament that says, “We are on your side; we understand what you are going through, and we think that this is such an important step to take that we will enshrine it in statute,” is, I feel, a really important way, in a time of polarisation, division, hopelessness and frustration, of trying to bridge the gap that exists between our politics in this place and the reality of people’s lives in my constituency and everybody else’s.

Because it always sticks in my mind, I will close with this quotation from William Blake:

“Pity would be no more,

If we did not make somebody Poor”.

What we are here to do today, as we are every day as elected representatives, is to address and overcome the structural causes in our society that make people poorer, that limit people’s opportunities and life chances, and that make our society weaker and less vibrant. With this Government’s proposal to cap uniform items, I think we have an opportunity to tackle one of those structural causes, and to actually show to our communities, “Yes, after so much division and hopelessness, we are on your side.”

[The Minister for School Standards (Catherine McKinnell)]

It really is an honour to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East, who made an incredibly powerful case for why we have brought forward these measures, as indeed did my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North, who also shared her experience, as a mother, of battling some of these issues.

I have to say that, on the way back to this Committee, after the brief break that we just had, I went past some members of staff who work in the House, and they said, “Oh, you look in a hurry.” I said, “Yes, we are about to talk about the measures that we are bringing forward on uniforms,” and, instantly, they said, “Oh my goodness, it’s a nightmare! They cost a fortune,” and expressed how challenging they find it.

Indeed, when I was recently asked to find a picture of myself in my old school uniform—and I had to search hard because, while I know I look really young, it was a while ago that I was at school—I wanted a picture that would represent the school that I went to, but strangely, when I found the pictures, I realised that my school uniform had no branding. It was a plain grey jumper, a plain grey skirt and a blue generic shirt.

I realised that those were the times that we lived in; we had less, and that was the reality, I think, for the vast majority of schools. I remember my school being very smart and very strict, but that was the uniform that we had. I think we did have a blazer with a badge on as well, and we had to wear that to and from school, but that was how the school dealt with the public outward projection of the school identity. I grew up as one of eight siblings, and I do not know how my parents would have managed for the eight of us growing up, given the uniforms that some families have to buy today.

That is why I am delighted to speak today to clause 23, and to address the amendments that have been put forward in this group, because this Government really are committed to cutting the cost of school uniforms for families. That is why the Government have chosen, as a priority in this Bill, among many other things, to support families by limiting the number of branded items that schools can require pupils to have. I genuinely appreciate the contributions on this, some of which have been very thoughtful, and I am very happy to allay concerns that have been raised as part of this discussion.

I will turn first to amendment 87, tabled by the hon. Member for Twickenham, which is to replace the limit on the number of branded school uniform and PE kit items that a school can require with a limit on the cost of those branded school uniform items. We want to ensure that any action that we take to reduce the cost of uniform provides schools and parents with clarity, and offers parents choice in how to manage the cost of uniform. Ensuring that parents can buy items from a range of retailers gives them that flexibility. However, introducing a monetary cap on branded items risks increasing schools’ reliance on specific suppliers and therefore risks reducing that choice for parents.

We want to also provide parents and schools with absolute clarity about our expectations regarding branded items in schools. A cost cap on branded items would create ambiguity as to how items purchased in second-hand uniform sales, for example, would be accounted for. Lastly, a cap on the cost of branded school uniform would be complex for schools and parents to manage due to varying production costs and regional price differences. For those reasons, I kindly ask the hon. Member for Twickenham to withdraw her amendment.

I now turn to Government amendment 7, which is a technical amendment to improve drafting that is consequential on Government amendment 8, which I will speak to shortly. Government amendment 7 ensures that the limits on branded school uniform items will continue to apply only to schools in England, following changes made by Government amendment 8. The territorial extent of the provision applies to both England and Wales, but the application of these measures applies to England only. Education, including requirements around school uniform, is a devolved matter, and therefore so is this provision.

I turn now to amendments 29 and 30, tabled by the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, which would to leave out the word “have” and insert the word “buy” in the relevant lines. As the hon. Member knows and has heard, too many families still tell us that the cost of school uniforms remains too large a financial burden. We need to remove the cost of uniform as a barrier to children accessing school and its activities. The Government therefore want to ensure that the action we are taking to reduce the cost of school uniform provides all schools and parents with clarity about what these changes will mean for families.

The hon. Member’s amendment would allow schools to require pupils to wear more than three branded items of school uniform, provided parents do not have to pay for them. It could create confusion about whether a given branded item of uniform would be captured within the statutory limit. We want to provide parents and pupils with clarity about the expectations regarding branded items in schools. Allowing schools’ uniform policies to set out different requirements, depending on the school’s ability to provide or source branded items for free, would undermine this principle.

Equally, we do not want to place an undue burden or expectation on schools by suggesting that they could or should be supplying core items of uniform to their pupils at no cost. That could risk increasing visible inequalities between schools and pupils, depending on their circumstances. There is also the risk that, if schools provide pupils with additional branded items at no cost, they may be subsequently tempted to charge parents for expensive replacements, if those items are ever lost or damaged. Finally, while I understand the hon. Member’s objective with this amendment, I note that accepting it in its current form would result in the drafting of the Bill implying that it would be pupils themselves purchasing branded uniform items, which is very unlikely to be the case in practice and I am sure it was not the hon. Member’s intent.

I turn now to amendment 31, which was also tabled by the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston. It would insert a proposed new section that says:

“The appropriate authority of a school may require a pupil to buy or replace branded items which have been lost or damaged, or which the pupil has grown out of.”

Schools can already set standards for appearance in their uniform and behaviour policies. For example, they can require that the correct uniform be worn, including any branded items, and that uniforms must be well presented. This proposed new section enabling schools to require pupils to replace lost, damaged or outgrown branded uniform is therefore unnecessary. Schools already have the powers to enforce it at present, and it goes against one of the main aims of this measure, which is to give parents greater choice and freedoms in their spending decisions on school uniform. Furthermore, on one additional technical point, while I appreciate the hon. Member’s intent with this amendment, the current drafting would apply this proposed new section to a wider range of schools than the original measure, including non-state-funded independent schools, which I assume was not his intention.

I now turn to amendments 32 and 91, which were once again tabled by the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston, to insert

“except PE kit or other clothing or items required as part of the school’s provision of physical education lessons”

and

“except items of kit required when representing the school in sporting activities”.

Amendment 32 would mean that, in addition to the three branded items that schools could require, with a fourth item for secondary and middle schools if those items included a branded tie, schools could also require pupils to have a potentially unlimited number of branded PE kit items. Amendment 91 would mean that schools could require those pupils who wish to represent the school in sporting activities to have a potentially unlimited number of branded items.

At present, secondary schools in particular often require a large number of branded PE kit items. Almost three in 10 parents of secondary-aged children already report their child’s school requiring five or more PE kit items. That is unacceptable. Amendment 32, if adopted, would effectively nullify that entire measure, and severely limit any cost savings it would generate for parents. It is also contrary to the main aim of the measure, which is to give parents more choice over where and how they spend their money—including on PE kit.