United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Stephen Crabb Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct to point this out. Erasmus is a fantastic programme, and it opens the eyes of young people who would not otherwise be able to participate. It is very cruel for the UK Government not yet to have given any certainty to that programme. I know that there are people who work in international education in Glasgow who are still waiting for answers from this Government about whether their programme will be able to go ahead and whether they will have a job in the future.

Paragraph (f) states:

“supporting educational and training activities and exchanges within the United Kingdom.”

This is a clear area where the UK Government are stepping into devolved areas, because Scottish education is protected not only by the Scotland Act 1998, but by the Act of Union itself, along with the judiciary and the Church. The UK Government must be clear what exactly they intend by this particular provision.

I was quite taken aback by the statement on Monday by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster stating that there is no risk to water or the NHS. I believe he may be referring to clause 17 on mutual recognition and clauses 18 and 19 on non-discrimination, and to the related schedules, but the difficulty is that these clauses are not set in stone and can be changed further down the line. Subsection (2) tells a further story, because the definition of “infrastructure”—what that autocratic Minister of the Crown can directly fund on a whim—includes

“water, electricity, gas, telecommunications, sewerage or other services (for example, the provision of heat)…railway facilities (including rolling stock), roads or other transport facilities…health, educational, cultural or sports facilities…court or prison facilities, and…housing”.

In areas that are devolved, no UK Government Minister of the Crown has any business acquiring, designing, constructing, converting, improving, operating or repairing our infrastructure. Under this measure, the UK Government could propose to build in Scotland a court or a prison where they have no oversight of the justice system, a school where they have no remit over education, a road where they have no remit over transport, and, yes, a water treatment works where we already have the most successful, publicly owned water company in these islands.

[Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

The hon. Lady is making an interesting speech about the appropriate level of government for making decisions about projects and what projects constitute value for money, but at the heart of her argument is a serious proposition, which I think every Unionist in this House should find objectionable, which is that this elected UK Government should never have the ability to spend money in all corners of the United Kingdom for the benefit of their citizens.

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[Stephen Crabb]

It is a privilege to speak so early in the debate. I rise in support of clauses 46 and 47 and to put on the record my support for the general principles of the Bill.

The Bill is an essential building block of a successful and orderly Brexit and of a successful economy. People who say that they believe in those things need to back the Bill very strongly. People who say that they believe in getting on with Brexit should support the Bill. People who say that they support the Union and recognise the importance of a seamless internal market for the whole United Kingdom need to support the Bill.

The Labour party says that it is in favour of all those things, yet on Second Reading on Monday night, again yesterday and again today, they have found reasons not to give the Bill their support. That is very telling. Here we are in 2020 and it is just like 2017, 2018 and 2019, with the Labour party finding every excuse—using every trick in the book—to try to water down and get in the way of the successful delivery of Brexit and the successful safeguarding of the whole UK internal market.

At the heart of the Bill are borders and barriers. The Bill respects the borders that exist within our United Kingdom—it reflects the fact that we are a family of different nations within our United Kingdom—but it takes steps to avoid those borders becoming barriers to trade and prosperity for all parts of the United Kingdom. As a Unionist, I come at these issues from a position fundamentally different from that of, say, a nationalist such as the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), who eloquently started this debate. We come at these issues from fundamentally different perspectives. The problem I have this afternoon is with the Labour position, because it says that it is a Unionist party and in favour of getting on with Brexit, and yet the position this afternoon suggests something different.

I am a Member of Parliament in Wales, and I worry about Welsh politics when I see the Welsh Labour party continuing its slide towards becoming a branch of the nationalist movement. We are talking this afternoon, with the clauses and amendments that are on the table, about limits to UK authority and legitimacy in all parts of the United Kingdom. It is about putting up barriers to stop this Parliament and the elected UK Government having authority and legitimacy in every part of the United Kingdom. I completely respect the position of Plaid Cymru and SNP friends, because they see the world through a fundamentally different prism.

[Sir John Hayes]

My right hon. Friend is making an excellent point that is well illustrated by the official Opposition’s amendment 16, which says that any moneys spent in the devolved nations must be “subject to allocation” by those Parliaments. The preposterous idea proposed by the Labour party is that Ministers of the Crown—this Government—cannot spend money in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland without the devolved Assemblies allocating that money or choosing not to.

[Stephen Crabb]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point, but let me be absolutely clear: I believe in devolution. Other Conservative Members may have different views, but I believe in devolution. When I was Secretary of State for Wales, I was charged with translating the Silk commission into a workable plan to devolve whole suites of new powers to the Welsh Government in Cardiff Bay, and I did that happily, because I believe in seeing devolution become stronger for Wales. When my right hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) succeeded me as Welsh Secretary, he continued in that vein. We are part of a Government that have devolved powers to the Welsh Government and the Scottish Government.

However, the response from the Welsh Labour Government every step of the way—I had a running joke with the former First Minister Carwyn Jones about this in our Monday morning meetings in his office in Cardiff Bay—would be, “This is a rollback of the devolution settlement.” It does not matter what new powers we give to the Welsh Government, the response will always be, “This is a rollback. This is a power grab.”

[Alan Brown]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Stephen Crabb]

I will not give way again, because lots of colleagues want to speak.

The Bill strikes the right pragmatic balance in how it goes about strengthening the devolution settlement in the context of bringing back powers from the EU to the Governments of our internal market and how we divide up those powers and share them among the legitimate elected bodies that now constitute our constitution across the United Kingdom.

I want to speak in some more detail about the expenditure powers, which I support, that we are really debating under this part of the Bill. I do not support UK Ministers wanting to become the default authority for spending in devolved areas, but that is not what this is all about. This is actually about recognising that the UK Government have a duty of care for their citizens in every part of the United Kingdom, and that should not be a controversial thing. It certainly should not be controversial to Unionists that the UK Government should be able to spend money in all parts of the United Kingdom. When did the vision of devolution ever become about stopping this place having any kind of writ of authority in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland?

[Fay Jones]

On that point, this Bill could not be better timed as people recover from covid-19. Investing in jobs and livelihoods and generating prosperity in all four corners of the United Kingdom is exactly what this Government should be doing.

[Stephen Crabb]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There is a pragmatic purpose at the heart of the Bill, as well as a constitutional one. Again, I remember back to the days I was Secretary of State for Wales: there was no shortage of Opposition Members wanting to come to the Wales Office to discuss projects for which they were desperate to see funding. Time and again, we had to say to Labour colleagues, “I am so sorry, we do not have the ability to support that essential, important work with funding,” and they went away disappointed. I am so disappointed to see that Labour Members are actually falling into line behind the nationalist position today and saying that we should not have the ability to fund projects.

If hon. Members want specific examples, earlier this year we had devastating floods affecting Wales. Loads of rugby clubs in south Wales had infrastructure damaged.

Could we support the Welsh Rugby Union when we were asked for funding to support those rugby clubs in Wales|? No, because the devolution settlement said we had no right to be able to do that. I could give other examples. I could talk about the towns fund, which has previously been mentioned in this debate. Labour Members earlier this year stood up and said that they wanted to see their towns and their communities benefit from the towns fund. We could not do it: the devolution settlement said no.

Surely it is not right that the elected UK Government are forbidden, blocked and barred from being able to act in these areas—yes, acting in partnership, in concert, with the devolved Administrations. I strongly welcome the measures in the Bill and I am opposed to a devo-lock—a devolution barrier or block—against the UK Government acting.

[Alan Brown]

The right hon. Member says that he believes in devolution and respects it. Does he not share my concerns that even the Tory Chair of the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee says that clause 46 creates new reservations, so by default that means disrespecting the devolution settlement? The Chair’s letter to the Minister for the Cabinet Office also said

“it would be preferable for legislative consent to be given by each of the devolved legislatures.”

Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with that sentiment—that an LCM should be obtained before the Bill is imposed on the devolved Administrations?

[Stephen Crabb]

It would be great—it would be perfectly neat—if LCMs were provided, but we are in a political context where, unfortunately, that looks very unlikely, because we are dealing with such big issues as Brexit and the future of our Union. We know that the representatives in government in Cardiff Bay and in Edinburgh have a fundamentally different view of the world from ours.

I shall end by saying something about the shared prosperity fund. I am the Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee and we have been taking evidence on this. Even though I very strongly support the Bill, I want to register a concern with the those on the Front Bench about the progress of work in Whitehall on the shared prosperity fund. It is patently clear from the evidence that we have received that the pace of work is nowhere near fast enough, given the timescales involved for replacing the EU funds. There is a real need now for Ministers to step up the activity levels.

I also think that, again speaking to the Front Benchers, we need a bit more clarity and transparency on what the future of those funds will be. Even though I support the powers in the Bill this afternoon, in terms of building trust and good will with the devolved Administrations there is certainly a need for a much more detailed conversation about the future of the funds.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

I am pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) because I want to disagree very strongly with many of the things he said, but one of the points that he made was that opposition to the Bill is about our views on Brexit. I want to say loudly and clearly that opposition to the Bill has actually got nothing to do with our views on Brexit and everything to do with our views on who we are as a country, on whether we want to uphold international law and on the most basic principles of liberal democracy. The Bill is a shameful, shabby, squalid Bill that will break international law, trash our reputation overseas, undermine the withdrawal agreement, destabilise Northern Ireland and wreck the devolution settlement.

I rise to speak to amendment 20 in my name. Let me say straightaway that I completely support the case that has been made so eloquently by Opposition Members about the importance of protecting devolution. I have enormous sympathy for those who, frankly, would start again and get rid of clause 46 entirely. I would support that, but for as long as it is part of the Bill, my case is that it needs strong amendment.

Amendment 20 would set out that

“Any financial assistance provided under this section must be consistent with the achievement of any climate and environmental goals and targets applicable”.

Financial assistance spending can have major environmental impacts, which can be negative. We have heard from the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss), for example, some of the most egregious examples of how money has been used in a negative, incompetent and environmentally damaging way. Examples include road building where the evidence suggests that it leads to more driving and more emissions. Or, of course, money can be spent in a positive way, kick-starting new, good-quality, innovative green industries and jobs, and supporting progressive climate and environmental policy.

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[Alun Cairns]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and he highlights, at a constituency level, the challenges because of the nature of the limitations of their funding the Welsh Government or any devolved Administration in any part of the UK face in having the greatest impact on constituencies. The might of the UK Government can support those large-scale projects.

The last major infrastructure project in Wales was in 1987, when the Cardiff Bay Development Corporation was formed. There has not been a major infrastructure project since then. That demonstrates that the nature of devolution has led to money being spread much more thinly across all communities. There is a good argument for that, but it removes the ability to have an impact in one specific community.

[Stephen Crabb]

My right hon. Friend is making an important point. He will remember the original devolution campaign in the late ’90s in Wales. One of the key arguments for creating a devolved body was that it would make it easier to invest in major infrastructure projects. That was an advert for devolution. Does he agree that the fact that the Welsh Government have failed spectacularly to deliver infrastructure projects over the past 20 years is a very poor advert for devolution?

[Alun Cairns]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I have a more practical, current example, relating to my constituency.

When attracting investment, the added complexity of dealing with two Administrations for very large projects detracts from the ease of landing those deals. Let me highlight an example. I have long had the plan and hope to develop what I call battery valley in Wales, akin to silicon valley in the US. I believe that Wales has the capacity to develop expertise in the manufacturing and storage of batteries for electric vehicles as we move from the internal combustion engine. I have had the privilege of travelling to manufacturers and meeting investors around the world to encourage them to consider Wales for that purpose. It is great news that Britishvolt is looking at making such an investment in my constituency. That investment could be well in excess of £1 billion. It could be between £1 billion and £2 billion. Naturally, it will expect some sort of Government support to invest in Wales and specifically—hopefully—in my constituency.

An example of the sort of incentives that the German federal Government have offered for a similar investment to be made in Germany is close to €2 billion. The Welsh Government cannot compete with that sort of scale of spend, but clearly the UK Government have a part to play and can seek to jump-start the industry by making large-scale sums of money available that the Barnett formula could never deal with. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb) highlighted, the clauses in the Bill fill a major hole in the current devolution settlement in terms of attracting major investment and major infrastructure projects.

The hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Gerald Jones) highlighted briefly the challenges around the shared prosperity fund. Nations and regions across the UK have long been frustrated by the European aid programmes. West Wales and the valleys has seen spend approach £5 billion since the year 2000. Owing to the complexity of the European Union arrangements, I certainly do not think we have had the best value from that. We can look to the Welsh Assembly’s Public Accounts Committee, business groups statements and communities that have been frustrated by it, and we can all point to specific projects in areas across Wales that have not been what the community really wanted or needed, but that just happened to fit the rules that the European Union set.

Finally, I highlight that we are not a federal country. We are a Union of nations, but even in the most federal of constitutions, the central administration has the power to act and to support. It is absolutely right that the United Kingdom Government have the power to act in support of every part of every constituency wherever you are in this kingdom.