Passenger Railway Services (Public Ownership) Bill

Simon Lightwood Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 29th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Simon Lightwood)]

May I first congratulate you on your election, Madam Deputy Speaker? It is a pleasure to close the debate with you in the Chair.

It may have escaped the notice of Opposition Members, but there was a general election, and there is a reason for the fact that they are sitting on that side and we are sitting on this side. However, I have enjoyed listening to the many maiden speeches that have been made today. It has been just over two years since I made my own maiden speech, and I found it extremely nerve-racking, so I am greatly impressed and, I have to say, somewhat intimidated, by the quality of the speeches made today. I am also grateful to colleagues for their considered contributions, and I will attempt to respond to as many questions and concerns as possible. Where I have not been able to do so, I will follow those up with a letter.

Let me begin by dealing with the issue of public ownership. According to the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Faversham and Mid Kent (Helen Whately), we have no proof that it will improve outcomes for passengers, but that is clearly not the case. We know for a fact that this Bill will save tens of millions of pounds in fees, and if that is not a good start, I do not know what is.

Furthermore, as the Secretary of State explained earlier, this reform is based on solid evidence. In fact, the public sector has an incredibly strong record of successful delivery, including increased reliability—even when dealing with operators that were previously failing financially, or otherwise failing to deliver for passengers.

I am confident that public ownership will provide the right foundations to drive forward improvements for passengers—be it simplifying the arcane fares system, integrating rail with other transport or improving accessibility. First and foremost, it will deliver the standards of reliability that the travelling public have every right to expect. I remind the House that this is one of two Bills, and that the second will deliver the Government’s wider plans for rail. As my hon. Friend the Member for Luton South and South Bedfordshire (Rachel Hopkins) says, those wider plans are absolutely designed to put passengers back at the heart of the railways and will introduce new measures to protect their interests.

Let me assure the shadow Secretary of State that the wider railways Bill is absolutely a priority for this Government, unlike the previous Government, who had years to bring forward legislation to reform the railways and only got as far as a draft Bill. We are not delaying; rather, we are taking the time to develop the much larger Bill properly, so that it delivers the benefits that we have promised. I look forward to bringing it before the House later in this Session when parliamentary time allows. Under that Bill, the Secretary of State will be the passenger-in-chief and hold Great British Railways to account for delivering for passengers and freight. We will also create a powerful passenger-focused watchdog, the Passenger Standards Authority, to independently monitor standards and champion improvement in service performance against a range of measures.

I am glad that the issue of freight has been raised today. Alongside the overall growth targets set by the Secretary of State, the wider railways Bill will include a statutory duty on Great British Rail to promote the use of rail freight, to ensure that freight remains a key priority.

My hon. Friend the Member for Middlesbrough and Thornaby East (Andy McDonald) is absolutely right to say that it is shameful that the previous Government’s approach to industrial relations was a failure, which inflicted two years of disruption and misery on millions of passengers. By contrast, this Government will work with unions to mediate disputes. In her first weeks in office, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has met representatives of the relevant unions.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Josh Dean), in an excellent maiden speech, raised a very important point about staff shortages on our railways. That is a result of the previous Government’s failure to plan properly for the future, leading to skills and recruitment gaps. It is, of course, important that the right staff with the right skills are in the right place at the right time to provide the level of service that passengers expect and deserve. My ministerial colleagues and I look forward to working with train operators and trade unions on this issue. I wish my hon. Friend well in his endeavours to bring more young people into politics—something we should all be passionate about.

On ticket fares, I share the shadow Secretary of State’s ambition for lower fares for all passengers. We are taking pragmatic steps towards that and are committed to reviewing the overly complicated fares system, with a view to simplifying it and introducing digital innovations. We will explore the options for expanding ticket innovations such as digital pay-as-you-go and digital season tickets across the network. We are aware that increasing passenger numbers is critical to this plan, and that is what our simplified system will aim to do.

The shadow Secretary of State and the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Dr Mullan) raised concerns about the ideology of our approach. I can assure them that our plans are not a return to the days of British Rail and that our approach is not ideological; it is pragmatic. We will take the best lessons from the public and private operation of railways. It is about making sure that the system is right, with checks and balances, growth incentives and proper accountability. We have been clear that our approach means a relentless focus on the interests of passengers and the taxpayer above all else. The same applies to the shadow Secretary of State’s claim that the Government’s plans are about putting politicians in charge, which could not be further from the truth. The point of Great British Railways is to get day-to-day decisions out of the hands of politicians and into the hands of those who are best placed to make such decisions, with the needs of the passenger and the freight user at the heart of the whole system.

The shadow Secretary of State mentioned the Chancellor’s statement. The Chancellor has made some very hard decisions on the basis of the dire financial situation that we have inherited from the previous Government, but this does not change the fact that providing better transport for our citizens is an absolute priority, and we will not waver in our pursuit of better rail services for all.

I also thank the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) for her comments and share her view that intervention is needed. However, let me assure her that we are well aware that this cannot come at the expense of other vital services. I assure her that our plan to fix Britain’s railways is fully costed and will be delivered within our fiscal rules. It will improve services and reduce costs to the public purse.

The hon. Members for Bath and for Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey (Graham Leadbitter) and my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame Morris) also highlighted the role of the rolling stock leasing companies. This is another area where the Government’s approach is pragmatic, delivering value for the taxpayer and not driven by ideology. It would not be responsible to spend billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money buying up existing rolling stock, especially when, as my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has set out this afternoon, we face a £22 billion black hole in the public finances created by the Conservatives.

I completely agree with the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) on the importance of rail links to local communities, and I welcome her constructive attitude to this debate. I deeply sympathise with the points she made, and those made by the hon. Member for Didcot and Wantage (Olly Glover), my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool Wavertree (Paula Barker) and others, about the Avanti West Coast service. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State set out, she has already met with Avanti to make her expectations clear. However, the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills will appreciate the need to bring services into public ownership as existing contracts expire, to avoid the need to pay a penny in compensation to the operators for earlier termination. That does not change the fact that the Government care deeply about performance and will hold private operating companies to account for the remainder of their contracts.

To reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson), I will also highlight that contracts can be terminated early if the relevant contractual conditions are met, and we will not hesitate to do so if needed. She also raised the important issue of ticket office closures, as did the hon. Member for Taunton and Wellington (Mr Amos) in his excellent maiden speech. I confirm that this Government have no plans to close ticket offices.

The right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills and the hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle also asked about open access services. We have been clear that there will remain a role for open access services, with existing operators continuing to operate on the network alongside publicly owned services, where they add value and capacity to the network.

Finally, the hon. Member for Brighton Pavilion (Siân Berry) highlighted the role of Transport for London and Merseytravel. How to secure the delivery of services in those areas will remain a matter for local leaders. The wider railways Bill will give local leaders a statutory role in governing, managing, planning and developing the rail network. This, along with our plans to give local authorities more control over bus services through our better buses Bill, will make it more straightforward to integrate the railways with other forms of transport.

I would like to thank hon. Members again for an excellent and considered debate on this “Cinderella topic”, as the hon. Member for Didcot and Wantage called it, and I welcome further engagement from both sides of the House as the Bill progresses. With that, Madam Deputy Speaker, I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second time.