Independent Complaints and Grievance Policy

Simon Hart Excerpts

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Commons Chamber

[Pete Wishart]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady, because the working group did not consider that. She is right that, such is the fast-changing nature of the workplace environment, people should be required to redo the training, because innovations do happen. I am looking around at colleagues from the working group and I cannot see any real objection to that suggestion, so the Leader of the House might consider it as we move forward and as the report evolves.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

We only have to look outside this place to realise that almost every other industry in the UK has something called continual professional development. If the dinosaurs do not like being dragged into that, they know what the alternative is.

[Pete Wishart]

That is a useful contribution. My workplace background was in a rock band, so I am not all that familiar with some of the things have been going on in industry, but I will obviously take lessons from the hon. Gentleman, who seems to know what he is talking about.

This report is a helpful and worthwhile document. There is no going back now in the quest for equality. We reached a defining point last year when all these issues started to emerge, and we had a range of online societal campaigns among those who decided that they had had enough. I hope that this little report will perhaps mark the beginning of the end of some of the horrible, appalling practices that we have seen in this House over the years.

Business of the House

Simon Hart Excerpts

Thursday 9th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I think all parties are finalising their appointments to Select Committees. There are a number of Select Committees where that needs to be completed. It is very much my hope and expectation that that will happen as soon as possible, and hopefully before the summer recess.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Will the Leader of the House confirm that it is illegal to use a statutory instrument to wreck or repeal an Act—a fact the hon. Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) is well aware of?

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend is right. This is a change permissible and provided for under the Hunting Act 2004. It does not reverse the ban on hunting with dogs. Hon. Members on both sides will have the chance to debate the issue next week.

English Votes for English Laws and North Wales

Simon Hart Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2015 Westminster Hall

[James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) on securing this debate. I represent a constituency that is three seats into Wales, but none the less I have many constituents who daily cross the border into England, just 30 minutes away. We do not tend to hear about constitutional matters on the doorstep.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes a valid point about constitutional matters being a sleeping pill for most of the electorate. Does he agree that one of the greatest frustrations during the election campaign was the confusion over who is responsible for what? That great exasperation probably damages the reputation of politics in the eyes of the public. Whatever we do, we must address that point. rather than just talking about ourselves to ourselves.

[James Davies]

My hon. Friend is quite right: we must address those issues. I will come on to that point in a minute. On the doorstep, some people pointed out the unfairness of the current situation—with particular regard to Scottish MPs, in fact; Wales was mentioned to a lesser degree—and that unfairness is ultimately a consequence of devolution. The First Minister in Wales has said that laws that affect Wales should be made in Wales—meaning by Welsh politicians. The follow-on from that is that laws that affect England should be made in England by English politicians. People cannot have it both ways.

The proposals certainly have a good deal of pragmatism behind them. That said, Wales is in a different position from Scotland in many respects. In North Wales, many live near the border, and the political boundaries do not reflect the reality of people’s day-to-day lives—where they live and work. Yes, roads, universities, energy projects and environmental issues in England affect our constituents, but having said that, they need to travel out of North Wales for that to be the case.

Today I want to highlight the issue of health. As a doctor, I am well aware of the issues that have been brought up about hospitals in the north-west. The Countess of Chester hospital, where I have worked, was built on the basis that about a third of the patients would be from Flintshire, which is still the case in many respects. Alder Hey, Gobowen, Broadgreen, Liverpool women’s, Arrowe Park and Walton are all hospitals that rely on the throughput of North Wales patients—

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Allen]

If the hon. Gentleman, formerly of the Select Committee, will allow me, I must make progress because many others wish to speak.

The risks that I have outlined are the consequence of the Government not being clear, not consulting and not drafting the Bill in a sensible way.

I will finish on the Electoral Commission being the free speech police. In an excellent contribution, the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) suggested that the Electoral Commission would be the IPSA for elections. If that argument does not win over colleagues who are still wavering, I do not know what will. I congratulate the Minister and the Government on what they have done on clause 26. That is eminently sensible. It should enjoy the support of the whole Committee, but on clause 27 the Committee must send a further signal to the Government and to the second Chamber, so on behalf of the all-party Select Committee, which was voted in by colleagues throughout the House—for the first time ever, we have elected our Select Committees—and on the basis of a unanimous report, I ask Parliament to support me in voting no on the Question that clause 27 stand part of the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hart]

I am confused about the distinction that the hon. Lady is making between charitable campaigning, which is reasonably protected by this measure, and party political charitable campaigning, which is of course illegal under charity law anyway. What aspect of charitable campaigning is she worried will be wrongly interpreted, and why is the existing legislation not sufficient to deal with that?

[Sarah Champion]

First, why do we need a new Bill if the existing legislation is working? As a specific example, if GROW, my local organisation that protects women who have suffered domestic abuse, was seeking a change of which I was very supportive and was saying, “Sarah is very supportive of this”, I worry that that might fall within the new provisions.

[Simon Hart]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Sarah Champion]

No, I am sorry—I will not.

Amendment 66 would remove the 50% reduction in financial thresholds, and I support that. Indeed, I would like to go further and support the removal of clause 27 in its entirety. That position is also supported by the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee, which says in its report:

“We have not seen adequate evidence for setting the new thresholds for expenditure at the levels imposed by Part 2 of the Bill. The Government must explain the reasoning behind its decisions during the passage of the Bill. Even if the Government can make the case for imposing lower levels, it must be able to give a convincing account of why it has chosen these particular limits as opposed to any others. If it cannot do so, we recommend that the existing levels continue to apply until such point as the case for change has been made.”

Business of the House

Simon Hart Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I can feel a John Major moment coming on, if the right hon. Lady recalls that.

I will mention the issue that the right hon. Lady has quite properly raised with my colleagues in the Department for Transport—not least because they might have a better answer than I do. For both the public services and the private sector, we always need to look where there is any degree of monopoly of supply. It is important for such issues to be looked at from time to time by the Office of Fair Trading.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Some months ago, I asked the Leader of the House for a statement on very slow departmental responses to parliamentary questions. My right hon. Friend worked his magic back then, so I wonder whether he could apply the same lubricant to the Ministry of Justice, which is now six weeks overdue in responding to constituent inquiries, including a named day question.

[Mr Lansley]

My hon. Friend will know the importance I attach to prompt responses to Members and I have sent the Procedure Committee some of the latest data on performance in the last Session. I can tell my hon. Friend that his question to the Ministry of Justice has been answered today.

Lobbying

Simon Hart Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Today of all days, I should draw Members’ attention to my register entry on this topic.

At the beginning of the debate, there seemed little chance of consensus, but as it has gone on issues have emerged on which Members on both sides of the House can be pleased that progress has been made. We have, however, either underplayed or glossed over three specific points, the first of which is obviously one of definition. Despite numerous speeches on the topic, we are still pretty unclear about precisely who should or might be caught by the proposals. Secondly, we have, I believe, slightly underplayed the positive contribution made by lobbyists to many of our lives—not only in the House, but in our constituencies. Thirdly, we have made some progress, albeit not much, on how the matter can be properly resolved.

We need to give the greatest care and longest time to the problem of definition. We have touched on the role of pressure groups, which include charities, as well as industry representatives—a phrase that could cover a multitude of sins. Local groups could be well funded or well advised or simply put themselves together on the spur of the moment to lobby us in our constituencies on a particular interest or issue. The words “professional lobbyist” have been used without much qualification during the debate. More clarity on who would come under that description is crucial if we are to get things right.

[Mr Thomas]

I share the hon. Gentleman’s concern about the need for clarity from the Government about definition. Has he seen the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee’s report, especially its recommendation that the Government should

“clarify whether its definition of lobbying includes lobbying advice, or only direct representation, to avoid confusion regarding who should, and should not register as a lobbyist”?

[Simon Hart]

The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear that I have seen the report; as I am still a member of that Committee, from time to time I read our reports. I take his point, but if he will forgive me I will come back to it in my closing remarks. If I forget, no doubt he will intervene.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Does my constituency neighbour agree that we also need to look at the relationship between the Government and big business? Earlier this year, the World Development Movement produced a document stating that a third of Ministers had links to finance or energy companies involved in the exploitation of fossil fuels. We have not seen much movement towards creating a low carbon economy in the UK. Does the hon. Gentleman understand why people are concerned?

[Simon Hart]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point, and I entirely respect his view. I sometimes think we underplay the obstacles that outside interest groups have to go through to get to and influence Ministers. We are talking about creating not only new legislation, but legislation on top of an already stringent set of rules. Again, I am not trying to duck the issue, but I will come back to the hon. Gentleman’s point when I come to how we should resolve all these differences.

I turn to what I call “donor lobbyists”, the strongest part of whose argument appears to be the strength of their bank balances. I am interested that the Labour party has made concessions on that, particularly with regard to the influence of trade unions. For some time, a concern among Members on the Government Benches has been how we could have a register of lobbyists that did not include everybody. Members on both sides of the House have made progress on that during this debate.

I shall make only two further points, the first of which is our strange obsession with what we seem to call these days “professional lobbyists” without any real qualification of what they might be, although the Chairman of the Political and Constitutional Reform Committee went some distance towards that. Plenty of people consider themselves to be professional lobbyists but have many other strings to their bows and do many other things for the organisations they represent. Are they or might they be considered professional lobbyists under the proposals? We have yet to find out.

It strikes me as odd that we seem to gloss over some of the big organisations. Tesco has been mentioned, probably unfairly, as an organisation that might not fall under the proposals because everybody knows what it stands for. Actually, that is not right. Tesco might come into this building to lobby on fuel prices, planning, food labelling or any number of issues that come under its jurisdiction. We have to be careful about drawing some random arbitrary line above which some people go. Rather than re-establish public confidence in what we do, we could end up causing great disappointment to those interested in the proposals and do ourselves considerable harm in the process. Likewise, there are plenty of well financed, organised and documented pressure groups—campaigning against or in favour of major wind farm developments or things such as HS2—that are unquestionably engaged in very sophisticated lobbying.

It will not surprise hon. Members to hear that I want more lobbyists; I think they are a good thing and bring great variety and strength as long as we treat them with sufficient recognition and responsibility. Doing anything that might deter people from being able to lobby us pretty well however they wanted would be a counter-productive road down which we should not go.

We seem to have overlooked some existing legislation—the Freedom of Information Act 2000. Whenever I have wanted to know what has been going on in the darkened corners of ministerial offices, I have simply put in a freedom of information request and have probably acquired most of the information I have wanted about who is meeting whom and on what basis. Let us not reinvent something that already exists and to which every member of the public has perfect access.

Lastly, I want to touch on two things. First, there is the positive contribution of lobbying, which some of us seem to have slightly overlooked. Personally, my life would grind to an absolute halt if lobbyists representing all sorts of different groups did not supply me with lots of useful, expert information on a range of subjects and completely free to the taxpayer. If we had to get our offices to pay for that information, the taxpayer might have something to say about that. Let us not for one minute make it more difficult for responsible organisations —charities, industry pressure groups or anything else—to provide us with a constant stream of high quality information, which makes us more likely to produce decent legislation.

Having read the Government’s amendment to the Opposition proposal, I am confident that we are pointing in the right direction on resolutions. We need to avoid reforms that are simply a partial list of names on a piece of paper. We must not over-regulate a responsible industry; that might unintentionally make the life of the charitable sector, in which I have some interest, all the more difficult. If we end up in a situation where people who donate to charities or contribute to charitable activity think that their donations may become the subject of political debate or some public declaration, that might make them, for all sorts of sensible reasons, much less inclined to make their generous contributions to those charities. If the consequence of our trying to resolve a political issue in this building is that we end up deterring people from supporting valuable charities, we will not have done a good job in the eyes of the public, but a very bad one.

The issue gets to the heart of the complexities of the debate. I hope we can reflect on the views held by Members on both sides of the House, and particularly the view of the Chair of the Select Committee. We should turn a deaf ear to calls for great haste to answer the question of why we have not done something.

We can see from a handful of the contributions this afternoon that we could legislate in great haste and make an absolute horlicks of this. It would be much more sensible for us to work our way steadily through the issues raised, particularly that of definition. If we do not do that, rather than having been able to tick a box and sign off an aspect of the coalition agreement, we will have created a situation in which, when the next lobbying scandal comes along—and it unquestionably will—people will ask what the register was all about and why it did not prevent the scandal from occurring. We will have to look them in the eye and say, “Of course it never stood a chance”.

We must take time. The Opposition proposal, dare I say it, is a little cynical; the Government amendment makes a great deal more sense. The Government are right not to be bullied or rushed into producing something hastily that proves incomplete. I have no difficulty, with all my history, in recommending that those who are interested should vote against the Opposition proposal and in favour of the Government amendment.

Business of the House

Simon Hart Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

The premises of that question are almost entirely wrong. I will not re-run the vote on Tuesday, but I am absolutely clear that what we set out to do was in the national interest—more particularly, it is in the democratic interest for votes to be of equal value. Those on the Opposition Benches have to explain why they have continuously, over many years, sought to frustrate people in having their vote count equally in more equal-sized constituencies. On the idea that there is no forward programme, what did the hon. Gentleman think we were doing when we published the mid-term review? That is a comprehensive statement not only about the delivery of the coalition agreement but about additional clear, strong priorities. This week, he saw the reform of child care and support for child care provision come through. Those and other priorities are coming through, as the mid-term review set out.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

This time last week, I asked for a departmental statement on departmental responses to letters, or the lack of them. The Leader of the Houser replied:

“I will certainly be in touch with the Treasury and will perhaps encourage my colleagues there to respond to my hon. Friend before they answer questions here next Tuesday.”—[Official Report, 24 January 2013; Vol. 557, c. 467.]

That was last Tuesday. Nothing has happened. Will my right hon. Friend please come to my rescue once more?

[Mr Lansley]

I am somewhat confused, Mr Speaker, because I have a letter to my hon. Friend from the Economic Secretary dated 28 January. I will ensure that a copy is placed in my hon. Friend’s hand.

Business of the House

Simon Hart Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lansley]

I am indeed aware of these tragic and very disturbing cases, as I know the House is, and we share the concern that the hon. Lady expresses on behalf of her constituents. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary was recently in India and had the opportunity to discuss with the Indian Government many issues, including students coming here, and was able to reassure them. However, I will talk to my right hon. Friend and see whether there is any further means by which she can provide the necessary reassurance.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

May we have a statement on departmental responses to letters? Despite 11 attempts over five months to get a response from the Treasury to a constituent’s query, I have so far failed. I very much hope that the Leader of the House can help to sort this out.

[Mr Lansley]

If my hon. Friend or Members across the House experience failures on the part of Departments, I hope Ministers will respond and take action. However, if I can be of any assistance, I will. I will certainly be in touch with the Treasury and will perhaps encourage my colleagues there to respond to my hon. Friend before they answer questions here next Tuesday.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Simon Hart Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

Yesterday we were treated to nearly 40 speeches on this topic, of which only 10 were in support of the Bill. However, the speech that stuck in my mind more than any of the others was that of my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray), who was in danger of giving politics a good name by putting her principles before her career. I think that her speech united members of our party behind her, and behind those who, sadly, take a view that is very different from that taken on our Front Bench.

I use the word “sadly” with great emphasis, for, like my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson), I am not a rebel. I once abstained on an issue of importance —the imposition of VAT on static caravans, as it happens—but that is about as big a nuisance as I have been in the two and a half years for which I have been here. The decision to vote against the Bill, however, has been the easiest that I have had to make in those two and a half years.

I will leave the constitutional expertise to others, but I will say that my decision was made so easy by three regrets. The first is presentational. I may be in a small minority, but I am one of those people who do not become infected by the view that we must have a democratic House of Lords. I do not want a democratic House of Lords, and that is precisely why I shall vote against the Bill. I want objectivity, expertise, experience and wisdom, all the qualities that we are told so often that we do not have in this House. I do not want Members of the House of Lords to be subject to the electoral and party pressures to which we may be subject here.

We seem to have spent the last goodness knows how many hours—some would say years—worrying desperately about what this place should look like, and not worrying nearly enough about what it should actually do. To those who keep saying, “This is all very tedious, so let us just get on with it”, I would respond, “Yes, this is all very tedious, so let us get on with not doing it, and instead do the work for which we are paid.”

My second regret is constitutional. It reflects the view expressed by the former Home Secretary, the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw), that the constitution is not the property of the Government. In fact it is not really the property of Parliament, and it is certainly not the property of the Liberal Democrats. However, it is the property of the nation, and I find very indigestible the experience of standing here and watching it being used—some would say “abused”—for the sake of what will be, at best, two and a half years of coalition management. That is one reason why the decision that I shall make at 10 pm will be such an easy one.

Let us be honest. We talked a great deal about the timetable yesterday, but this is not really about the timetable. Of course the timetable is important, but the reason we are so agitated is that this is actually a rotten Bill. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] It will do nothing for the reputation of Parliament, nothing for the reputation of politicians, and nothing to reconnect us with voters who, after several years of disconnection, are looking for inspiration. They want to see us doing the things that we were elected to do, rather than becoming involved in self-indulgent vanity projects inside this building.

I have to say, with enormous sadness, that if we get anywhere near the Parliament Acts as a means of concluding this particular debate, we will convert a rebellion into a mutiny. The strength of the arguments presented yesterday demonstrated that the legislation needs to go back to the drawing board. It demonstrated that those who genuinely favour constitutional reform, improvement and devolution in the House of Lords are willing to do business, but not with a gun held to their head. That would be an act of extraordinary vandalism.

My third regret is political. Last week, again with great sadness, I supported measures to disband 17 Army units. This week, we are being asked to create 360 new politicians to add to the 122 who have already been created in this House, all of whom will earn a great deal more money than our servicemen could ever hope to earn. That is simply too big a pill for me to swallow.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hart]

No, I will not.

[David Miliband]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hart]

No, I will keep pressing on, if the right hon. Gentleman does not mind.

An obvious reason for regret, which I think we all recognise, is that this Bill is not for the benefit of the nation. It is for the benefit of coalition management, and some would say that it is perfectly justified for the purposes of our Liberal Democrat colleagues. However, it is difficult to march behind generals whom we know are not particularly committed to this either—we know that because the Prime Minister has indicated it to us and because we speak to our own Ministers. This measure is not in the DNA of the Conservative party and actually the party is united on this point. The vote may say something else, but the party, with one or two exceptions, is pretty united in its opposition. We have only to look at the Hansard record of the vote—

[Chris Huhne]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Simon Hart]

No. We have only to look at the voting records of our Members back in 2011 to realise that.

I shall finish now, although I know that is a great disappointment to our Front Benchers. This is a battle we do not need, it will cost money that we do not have and it will cause rifts that look unappealing to the outside world. This will do nothing for voters. We spent years combating the political and constitutional vandalism of the former Government. I do not want to be part of such vandalism, which is why I would vote against the programme motion, were we to have one, and why I will vote against the Bill on Second Reading this evening.

Business of the House

Simon Hart Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I say to the hon. Gentleman, who has pursued this issue with dogged ferocity, that there will be questions to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence on Monday, which might provide him with an opportunity to pursue it with Ministers who have the answers at their fingertips.

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

May we have a statement or a debate on the Government’s plans for gift aid? A number of charities are finding it difficult to access the gift aid that they are due.

[Sir George Young]

I commend my hon. Friend for the question that he asked, I think, yesterday, and I commend the work of the air ambulances. We are committed to an online filing system for charities to claim gift aid, which will come online in 2012-13. I hope that will make it easier for charities to reclaim the money that they are owed and drive up the resources available for the causes that they promote in his constituency and others.