National Insurance Contributions Bill

Sheila Gilmore Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gauke]

I do agree. Given that we want to increase employment, it would not have been sensible to undertake the increase in national insurance contributions that the previous Government intended. That was clearly a mistake. I am sure that my hon. Friend will be delighted to know that not only are he and I in agreement but Tony Blair said last week that he thought it was a mistake.

[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Gauke]

Whether all four of us will agree, I wait impatiently to find out.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Can the Minister explain how a measure that was not actually implemented destroyed jobs, as the hon. Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) suggested?

[Mr Gauke]

To have implemented the policy we inherited would have destroyed jobs. It did not do businesses in the United Kingdom any good to have the prospect of an increase, sending the wrong message that we were going in the wrong direction. I am pleased to say that we have reversed that direction of travel by not implementing the previous Government’s policy in full. We have increased thresholds for national insurance contributions, which has clearly helped. Now, through this Bill, we are providing an employment allowance of £2,000.

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[Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales). As so often when members of his party speak in these debates, they talk about what was happening to the economy in the period before the general election and after it as if they were two completely different things. Many of the views the hon. Gentleman has just expressed were certainly not those on which he and his party leader stood, so far as the manifesto is concerned, in the period leading up to the election.

Anyone walking into this debate would think that it was yet another general debate on the economy—and, indeed, on the record of the last Government. Now that we are three and a half years into this Government, that seems somewhat strange. To me, it looks like diversionary tactics. Government Members are saying, “Let’s not talk about what we’ve done; let’s hark back yet again not just to the previous Government, but to proposals that never even came into effect”, suggesting that those proposals were somehow the cause of our economic difficulties. That clearly could not be the case.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. I can understand why she would not want anybody to hark back to the 13 years of the Labour Government, when anyone who ran a business saw it become more and more uncompetitive, when our country slipped down the league for international and global competitiveness and when our businesses were shackled by endless amounts of red tape and bureaucracy. Has she had the chance to speak to any businesses at all about that record and how things have significantly improved over the last three years?

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention, but I am certainly not going to say that many of my constituents did not benefit from the record of the last Government, and I am not going to accept her characterisation of that Government as not having helped the majority of people in this country. Yes, I have spoken to local businesses, and many of them have been struggling, particularly over the last three and a half years, to get loan finance to get their businesses functioning. Many have found it extremely difficult to operate in an economy that has been sent into decline by many of the measures that the incoming Government imposed. The picture presented by the hon. Lady is wrong.

As I was saying, the concentration on what happened during the last Labour Government is a reflection of the fact that this Government know that their previous proposals on national insurance contributions simply did not work. We have heard a lot about predictions, and some people have suggested that the Opposition’s predictions about the economy were wrong, so the Government’s predictions, presumably by extension, must be right.

However, what the Government told us in 2010 and 2011 was that they were going to eliminate, not just reduce, the deficit over the course of one Parliament. What we now hear over and over again is that the deficit has been reduced by one third, but it seems to have reached a plateau. That figure of one third has been invoked for a very long time now, which suggests that the Government’s original intentions and purposes have not been achieved. They have clearly accepted not only that they will not eliminate the deficit by 2015, but that everything has stalled and that deficit reduction has, as I say, reached a plateau. In 2010-11, it was predicted that we would see economic growth in 2010-12, not that we would be still waiting for it in 2013. Even now, the amount of growth we are seeing is very limited.

[Ian Swales]

Is the hon. Lady happy about the fact that she stood on a manifesto which included a national insurance policy that independent observers said would take 57,000 jobs out of our economy?

[Sheila Gilmore]

We do not know that that policy would have taken jobs out of the economy, because we did not have the opportunity to implement it.

Another issue that is subject to repeated predictions is jobs. The number of new private sector jobs is constantly being put at about 1.4 million, but, interestingly, in January 2011 the Government were already saying that 500,000 jobs had been created. It is clear to anyone that even if those figures are accurate, and even if factors such as the re-categorisation of jobs into different sectors are taken into account, the pace of job creation is not quite as dramatic or as effective as we might think.

We were told that the earlier proposal for a national insurance holiday was intended to create jobs. The fascinating aspect of that was the very low take-up. If all those new employers had set up new companies and provided new jobs, why did they not want to take advantage of it? Why did so few come forward? That surely casts doubt on the notion that numerous people were desperate to start up new businesses and to take on employees. In December 2012, there were only 20,365 applicants for the scheme. The Minister has told us that eventually there were 26,000, but the initial prediction was 400,000. There is a considerable difference between those figures.

It is not surprising that the Minister was reluctant to respond to interventions from his own Back Benchers and to say what he thought might be the outcome of his current proposals, because he knows how poor earlier predictions have been. It is not just in respect of the national insurance holiday that predictions have been wildly at odds with the reality. For example, the Youth Contract, which involved offering money to employers to take on people aged between 18 and 25, was apparently going to be one of the major answers to youth unemployment. It was designed, we were told, to help 53,000 young people per year. However, in the first year of its operation it helped only 4,690. That was another not very successful policy that we had been asked to believe would help people in an important way. In that context, I think it significant that only last week the Work and Pensions Committee heard from the CBI that it would have liked to see extra money for training, rather than cash incentives for employers to take on young people. Perhaps the Government should listen to what people think would help create jobs.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has pointed out that the current proposals do not guarantee any additional jobs and that this is simply a tax cut. A tax cut may be beneficial and may bring about more jobs, but in itself it will not necessarily do so. Again, I would point to the previous record. The IFS says we do not know whether this proposal will have any effect on job creation as it will not be piloted and will be almost impossible to evaluate, and that we will therefore be unlikely to know whether it will be money well spent. We must bear in mind the previous history, which I have mentioned, of two schemes that both failed to help create employment, and we must ask the Government to monitor and evaluate this new proposal as much as they can if they are going to introduce it.

The Government must realise that the creation of jobs is extremely important for many parts of this country. Many Government members and Back Benchers have expressed pleasure at the reductions in unemployment in their own constituencies, which is all very well, but unemployment levels in many parts of the country are still extremely high. What is even more important for many people is the lack of quality jobs and the fact that they often cannot work the number of hours they want to. We currently have the highest recorded level of people working part time who want to work more hours. That means people have low incomes and are often dependent on top-ups from Government benefits.

The Government sometimes wonder why things like housing benefit keep going up rather than down, despite the reforms they put in place. The main reason is that people in part-time, low-income jobs on zero-hours contracts have no choice but to apply for such benefits, so even the jobs that are out there are often ones that leave people with a cost-of-living crisis. That causes real suffering, and there is no point in pretending otherwise.

I ask the Government to indicate the likely take-up of this scheme—reluctant though they are to do—and to accept that their previous measures in this field have not been successful. Three years on, their initiatives have simply not been successful, and we see the results in the state of our economy today. Of course it is good that growth is beginning to return, but such low-level growth after such a long time can hardly be hailed as a success. If we want to argue about whose predictions were right, perhaps, at best, we have to say that nobody’s were. The Government’s predictions on coming to power in 2010 were certainly not borne out, and people have been suffering the results of that in the past three years.

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[Margot James]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. Indeed, what he has observed might explain why British exports to China have risen at a record rate in the past 12 months.

Another aspect of Government support for the small businesses that are crucial to employment and many of the new jobs that have been created has been the reduction in the small companies tax rate to 20%. The small business rate relief scheme was doubled until 14 April and we have also had the start-up loans scheme and the new enterprise allowance, which I have already mentioned. All those measures were designed to have, and have had, a positive effect on the livelihood of our small businesses.

Of course, not just employers have benefited from such measures. Employees have benefited too. In my constituency, 3,794 people have been removed from income tax altogether. A vast number of people in my constituency—33,000—are now paying less tax and that is an important development, freeing people to spend more money on the high street, which is where the economy is starting to grow again.

It is instructive to recall the Opposition’s record. The shadow Business Secretary makes the laughable claim that Labour is now the party of small business, but I think that small business people judge Governments, Oppositions and former Governments on their actions, not their words. The Opposition have a long way to go before they can put themselves up as people who understand the needs of businesses. As I said earlier, I think that it was indicative of their deeply flawed management of our economy that they felt in 2011 that they needed to put up taxes by putting up national insurance, rather than cutting public spending, which, of course, is what—only the other day—Tony Blair said they should have done. We all know how the economy ended up.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Is it not in fact the case that the incoming Government put taxes up? In particular, they put up VAT and that was the choice that they made. To say that no taxes went up would not be true.

[Margot James]

I would apologise if I felt that I had said that no taxes had gone up. Let me clarify in response to that intervention. I was making the point that the previous Government proposed to increase national insurance, presumably because they could not face the public expenditure cuts that this country really needed. The hon. Lady is quite right that the Government were driven to put up VAT, but the important point is that in getting a grip on the public finances we had a rough ratio. Spending cuts delivered approximately two thirds of what was required and the tax increases, regrettable though they were, were necessary and delivered the other third. I fear I digress somewhat, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I feel your watchful gaze so I shall return to the subject of the Bill.

I congratulate the Government on introducing this important measure. I would have benefited hugely from it when I was in business and I welcome it on behalf of the many small businesses and sole traders in my constituency.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

It is truly a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James), who is a mighty champion for our small businesses that are trying to access international markets. It is no wonder that her region leads the country in increasing exports to developing and developed nations around the world. She spoke most eloquently about the benefits for small businesses and echoed some of the points made by my hon. Friend the Minister about the impact of the Bill on the willingness of employers to add to their labour force.

I want to focus on the Bill’s impact not on the quantity of people who will be employed but on the price of labour, and on how the Bill might be used to implement some of the efforts to create a living wage across the United Kingdom. The Treasury team have come across a useful tool in implementing that change, and it is up to them to see how much courage they might have to move forward with this initiative to achieve it. That marks the difference between those on the Opposition Benches, who wish to posture over changes in the economy on employment and wages, and Government Members, who are interested in taking action to achieve change.

If I may, I shall consider the record of the previous Labour Government. As we have heard often today, the Labour Government were interested in increasing the tax on employment, and indeed went into the general election calling for increases in the jobs tax. Despite the words we have heard today, we have not heard one word of apology from the Labour party for saying at the last election that the right way to increase employment was to increase the tax on jobs. Still no apology on that, but it was part of a pattern that impacted negatively on the price of employment.

Labour abolished the 10p tax rate. It created a tax credits system that was an incredibly complex way to give people a post-tax income on which they could live. Any of us with constituents who have been caught up with tax credits when they went wrong knows how hard it is for families when the tax credits office claws those tax credits back and savings have to be found. Why on earth was that system a good system? Underpinning it—

[Sheila Gilmore]

rose—

[Richard Fuller]

I will give way in a second; I would love to hear from the hon. Lady.

Underpinning that system was Labour’s creation of a benefits system that discouraged work. We had hundreds of thousands of workers in our country going out to work on the minimum wage or a little more and seeing people living on benefits when they could have worked and ending up with a lifestyle that those people in work could not afford. Labour has not apologised for that policy and has opposed even the benefits cap.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the intention behind tax credits was indeed to encourage people to enter employment and that 350,000 single parents entered employment as a direct result of the introduction of the tax credits system?

[Richard Fuller]

The hon. Lady makes a point, but not a particularly good one. If the economy was borrowing so much money to stimulate employment, it was not a particularly outstanding outcome to achieve an increase in one part of the labour force of 350,000, especially when we consider the fact that every Labour Government have left office with unemployment higher than when they came to office.

[Sheila Gilmore]

rose—

[Richard Fuller]

That is the bigger picture to which I guess the hon. Lady wishes to return, as she is one of, I think, just two Labour Back Benchers in the Chamber.

[Sheila Gilmore]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way again and being so generous with his time. That myth about every Labour Government leaving office with unemployment higher than when it came to office is not entirely accurate. For example, unemployment was extremely low at the end of the period in office of the 1945-51 Labour Government. Under the Tory Governments of 1979 to 1997, unemployment was more than 10% in the majority of those years.

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[Caroline Dinenage]

And their family. I am pleased that the Bill makes that moment so much more likely. There are many statistics that show how great an impact the change will have. We have heard some amazingly powerful statistics this afternoon; for example, over a year, employers with fewer than 10 employees will have their national insurance contribution bill cut by 80%. However, it is easy to get bogged down in figures. What does the Bill mean for charities and small businesses up and down the country? It means that the small-time cupcake seller who works out of their kitchen and wants to expand, but is not sure that they can afford to, is now £2,000 more likely to give a young person their first foot on the jobs ladder. It means that the mechanic who needs another pair of hands to deal with a recent increase in demand can take someone on and pay them up to £22,000 without having to pay any jobs tax. It means that the Government are continuing to deliver exactly the kind of policies that have, so far, created 1.4 million private sector jobs and put the country on the path to prosperity.

There are so many ways in which the Government have helped small businesses to flourish. Locally, I have been involved in a really successful regional growth fund bid—a partnership between The News, which is our local newspaper, and the Solent local enterprise partnership. The Bridging the Gap scheme is a pot of money that new start-ups and small firms can bid for to help grow their business and create jobs. I recently visited three of the Bridging the Gap success stories in my constituency, including Kev Jones and Son, an independent convenience store at the heart of the community, which is, you will be interested to hear, Madam Deputy Speaker, the go-to shop for your Christmas meat hamper. The people there had very ambitious plans to expand. With a little bit of extra money, they were able to bring those plans forward, and they have now doubled their floor space and created some of the new jobs the area so desperately needs. These are exactly the kinds of businesses that we will be supporting through this Bill. That is absolutely the right thing to do, because they are not just the backbone of our economy but the lifeblood of our communities. The Bill is a key part of the wider programme to make Britain the most small-business-friendly environment in Europe.

By cutting Labour’s deficit, the Government have secured record low interest rates for hard-working families and small businesses across the country. From April 2015, corporation tax will be cut to 20%—the lowest in the G20. As a result of the Government’s policies, the UK recently topped KPMG’s list of the most competitive countries in which to do business, beating Switzerland, the USA and France for the first time ever. This hard work is getting results. The latest figures from the Office for National Statistics showed strong growth of 0.8% for the third quarter of 2013. That proves that the only way to create real prosperity and to raise living standards is not through quick-fix gimmicks but through straightforward solutions: backing businesses to create growth, cutting taxes to boost growth, and supporting hard-working people.

Labour Members have presented this as being somehow their idea. That appears to show brass neck of almost biblical proportions. Anyone who ran a business under the previous Labour Government, as I did for 13 years, will know that we were shackled by endless amounts of bureaucracy as the country fell deeper into debt and slipped down the international competitive league tables. We cannot escape the fact that they got it very badly wrong on the economy as well. They said we would lose 1 million jobs. Instead, we have seen the creation of 1 million net jobs—three in the private sector for every one lost in the public sector. Because this Government have cut taxes, slashed red tape and unleashed innovation, we have seen record levels of small business creation and employment. I am confident that the Government will continue to deliver the right policies.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Does the hon. Lady accept that the rate of employment has not yet reached the level it had reached prior to the recession, even if some numbers, many relating to part-time work, have gone up?

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Lady can throw facts and figures around as much as she likes, but unemployment was so high when we came into government purely as a result of the Labour party’s economic policies over 13 years. Everything we have done until now has been to try to put the brakes on and reverse that, bringing employment back to households that may not have had it for over a decade.

I am confident that the Government will continue to deliver jobs and deliver the right policies, such as this Bill, backing small businesses to create the jobs we need and keeping us on the path to prosperity.

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[Nicky Morgan]

Perhaps I should repeat my comments. This Government should get enormous credit for introducing a GAAR in the first place. The last Government had 13 years to introduce one and failed to do so. The important point about the panel is that it is independent. It was recommended by Graham Aaronson, and its members are independent from the Government. The gentleman in question has resigned. It is an important safeguard in the operation of the system that the panel’s independence is maintained.

I turn now to the excellent contributions from Back Benchers, especially on this side of the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) talked about charities benefiting from the Bill. It is very welcome that they will benefit as they employ 800,000 people. She also talked about the huge step of taking on the responsibility for that first employee. She is absolutely right about that and I am sure that all hon. Members will wish the very best to the lady who is opening the new floristry business in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) was right to say the Bill offers real help to small businesses, and that taking on the first employee and worrying about how to pay their national insurance puts firms off growing. This is an important measure to support the next step on the employment journey.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) found it strange that we were looking at the Labour party’s national insurance policy. First, her party wants to be the next Government, so it should not be a surprise that we scrutinise its policies. Secondly, we are still having to deal with the legacy of the previous Government. All the tough decisions we take are framed by having to deal with that legacy. I should, however, congratulate her on being the only Labour Back Bencher to speak in the debate. She asked whether the employment allowance would create jobs. The Federation of Small Businesses expects 29% of small businesses to use it to boost staff wages, 28% to use it to employ additional staff and 24% to use it to invest in resources—it is welcomed by business organisations. It is estimated that 90% of businesses that employ people will take up the employment allowance. I am sure the hon. Lady will welcome businesses in her constituency taking up the employment allowance.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) asked whether tax credits had been factored into the system. We do not believe that tax credits have been factored into this calculation, but the Office for Budget Responsibility considers the net impact of all Government policies on the economy. This policy has been subject to that scrutiny and I am sure we can discuss any further questions he has. He made a thoughtful contribution on the price of labour and the affordability of the living wage. I am sure that that is something we want to consider further. He is right to say that the employment allowance is a small but important start along the road of getting more people into employment. He was right about the encouragement of welfare dependency by the previous Government. By 2010, nine out of 10 families with children were reliant on the state. We want to make work pay. For example, our policy of raising the income tax threshold is all about ensuring that work pays and that people keep more of their earnings so they can spend them in a way that is right for them and their families.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Will the Minister reflect on the fact that many households are worse off as a result of the Government’s policies on tax and tax credits? Many families are not seeing any benefit—quite the reverse.

[Nicky Morgan]

Of course the Government recognise that living standards are under pressure and that household budgets are being squeezed, but it is interesting that the Labour party’s calculations on household income and wages and earnings never factor in tax cuts. We are factoring in tax cuts and ensuring that people keep more of their own money.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) made a characteristically excellent speech. She talked about the support the Bill will give by extending the employment allowance to small businesses and charities, and mentioned that she had been a small business owner herself. It is noticeable that many Government Members have run their own businesses. She rightly said that we want to make Britain business-friendly.

My hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), who also ran his own business before entering this House, did a sterling job in delivering his speech despite having lost a contact lens—none of us noticed. He made an important point about communicating with small businesses via Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, something I am sure Ministers will bear in mind. He also talked about making the employment allowance simple to administer. As my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary said in his opening remarks, the employment allowance will be delivered through employers’ standard payroll software and HMRC’s real-time information system. There will be no need for a separate application form or an annual return to report deductions. There will, I hope, be no extra forms, which is good news for small businesses.