National Insurance Contributions Bill

Baroness Morgan of Cotes Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Nicky Morgan)]

This has been a wide-ranging debate and I am grateful to have heard all the thoughtful contributions that have been made. It is noticeable that we heard seven contributions from this side, but only one from Opposition Back Benchers—[Interruption.] I welcome the Opposition’s support for the Bill, but as the shadow Minister said, the Bill is wide ranging, and Opposition Members could have talked about businesses, employment and the living wage. They have not taken the opportunity to do so and clearly had nothing to say about the Bill.

Before I respond to the points raised by hon. Members, it is worth reiterating the four key points of the Bill. First, from next April, all businesses, charities and community amateur sports clubs will benefit. They will receive a £2,000 employment allowance every year to set against their employer national insurance contributions liability. This is a measure specifically set out to support jobs. If I run a small firm employing four members of staff on the average private sector wage, I would see my national insurance contributions bill cut by more than a fifth. If I start a brand-new business and want to give up to 10 18 to 20-year-olds their first chance of full-time employment, paying the minimum wage, I would pay no national insurance contributions at all.

We have previously had time-limited allowances targeted at some businesses, but this is a universal allowance that will help all businesses. It is easy to understand and administer and, most importantly, it will make it easier for businesses in all our constituencies to create jobs. I am sure that that is something that all hon. Members want to see.

Secondly, as well as making it easier for employers to take on staff, the Bill will make it harder for companies to avoid taxes. It will give effect to the general anti-abuse rule, or GAAR, for NICs. As such, it is indicative of the Government’s intention to take a robust line in tackling all forms of tax avoidance. Thirdly, it will allow the Treasury to make regulations to bring in a certification scheme for the oil and gas industry when someone other than the deemed employer for national insurance is undertaking those duties on their behalf. This is part of the Government’s wider measure to address schemes involving employers setting up outside the UK and providing workers to the UK in order to avoid paying employment taxes.

Finally, the Bill will make changes to tackle disguised employment and to address the tax issue arising from the UK implementation of the alternative investment fund managers directive, which the Exchequer Secretary described in some detail earlier. The importance of those last three measures should not be underestimated. With the associated tax changes they will contribute towards raising £265 million for the Exchequer in the 2014-15 tax year.

As I have said, we heard some excellent contributions to the debate. I am sorry to say that the Labour contributions did not extend to any great insight into the Labour party policy on support for businesses. First, Opposition Members tried to take credit for this Bill, if hon. Members can imagine such a thing. The shadow Chief Secretary said that we should say sorry. If sorry is the hardest word, we have never heard it from the Labour party, which left us—as my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (David Rutley) said—with the legacy of a huge deficit and enormous debt that we are having to pay off. This Government are having to make the tough choices.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) was wrong about the Labour party’s national insurance contributions scheme, because it would have applied only to small businesses. Our scheme will apply to all businesses. She also said that administration of the previous scheme cost £12 million. In fact, the estimated administration costs from the start of the national insurance contributions scheme that finished in September were £770,000—nowhere near millions of pounds. There was tight control on its administration.

We will not take a history lesson from the Opposition about the regional national insurance contributions holiday. My hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary made it clear at the start of the debate that this was a temporary, targeted measure that helped 26,000 businesses and created 90,000 jobs. That is 90,000 people who have employment as a result of that scheme. That is something that we should be proud of, while recognising that there is scope for a new scheme, and that is what the Bill will introduce.

On the GAAR, the Opposition had 13 years to introduce it, but they failed to do so. They can pick holes in the scheme as much as they want, but the point is that this Government have taken the tough decisions. The rule will act as a deterrent to those tempted to engage in abusive avoidance schemes. It will take time to bed in, and we will keep it under review.

In answer to the specific questions asked by the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell), the GAAR is expected to raise some £235 million over the next five years and it will also protect revenue that would otherwise be lost. We are confident that the GAAR will change the avoidance landscape as its impact starts to be recognised. The hon. Lady also asked about the Bill not being published in draft, but she then said that we had taken a long time to get round to making the Bill happen. She cannot have it both ways, although that is a position the Labour party always likes to be in.

The employment allowance will be introduced from 6 April next year. If we had had time for formal consultation, it would have delayed the implementation date, which is something that none of us wants to see. However, I can tell the hon. Lady that HMRC has held discussions with various stakeholders over the summer on the detailed implementation of the employment allowance, and those discussions have helped to inform the design of the new system.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the Minister for responding to some of the questions that I raised. She seems to be moving away from the subject of the GAAR, but I wonder if she could address the questions relating to the advisory panel and the member who was dismissed from it in disgrace. What will the Government do to ensure that that does not happen again and that the credibility of the GAAR advisory panel, which was dented by those events, is restored?

[Nicky Morgan]

Perhaps I should repeat my comments. This Government should get enormous credit for introducing a GAAR in the first place. The last Government had 13 years to introduce one and failed to do so. The important point about the panel is that it is independent. It was recommended by Graham Aaronson, and its members are independent from the Government. The gentleman in question has resigned. It is an important safeguard in the operation of the system that the panel’s independence is maintained.

I turn now to the excellent contributions from Back Benchers, especially on this side of the House. My hon. Friend the Member for Stourbridge (Margot James) talked about charities benefiting from the Bill. It is very welcome that they will benefit as they employ 800,000 people. She also talked about the huge step of taking on the responsibility for that first employee. She is absolutely right about that and I am sure that all hon. Members will wish the very best to the lady who is opening the new floristry business in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

My hon. Friend the Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) was right to say the Bill offers real help to small businesses, and that taking on the first employee and worrying about how to pay their national insurance puts firms off growing. This is an important measure to support the next step on the employment journey.

The hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) found it strange that we were looking at the Labour party’s national insurance policy. First, her party wants to be the next Government, so it should not be a surprise that we scrutinise its policies. Secondly, we are still having to deal with the legacy of the previous Government. All the tough decisions we take are framed by having to deal with that legacy. I should, however, congratulate her on being the only Labour Back Bencher to speak in the debate. She asked whether the employment allowance would create jobs. The Federation of Small Businesses expects 29% of small businesses to use it to boost staff wages, 28% to use it to employ additional staff and 24% to use it to invest in resources—it is welcomed by business organisations. It is estimated that 90% of businesses that employ people will take up the employment allowance. I am sure the hon. Lady will welcome businesses in her constituency taking up the employment allowance.

My hon. Friend the Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller) asked whether tax credits had been factored into the system. We do not believe that tax credits have been factored into this calculation, but the Office for Budget Responsibility considers the net impact of all Government policies on the economy. This policy has been subject to that scrutiny and I am sure we can discuss any further questions he has. He made a thoughtful contribution on the price of labour and the affordability of the living wage. I am sure that that is something we want to consider further. He is right to say that the employment allowance is a small but important start along the road of getting more people into employment. He was right about the encouragement of welfare dependency by the previous Government. By 2010, nine out of 10 families with children were reliant on the state. We want to make work pay. For example, our policy of raising the income tax threshold is all about ensuring that work pays and that people keep more of their earnings so they can spend them in a way that is right for them and their families.

[Sheila Gilmore]

Will the Minister reflect on the fact that many households are worse off as a result of the Government’s policies on tax and tax credits? Many families are not seeing any benefit—quite the reverse.

[Nicky Morgan]

Of course the Government recognise that living standards are under pressure and that household budgets are being squeezed, but it is interesting that the Labour party’s calculations on household income and wages and earnings never factor in tax cuts. We are factoring in tax cuts and ensuring that people keep more of their own money.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) made a characteristically excellent speech. She talked about the support the Bill will give by extending the employment allowance to small businesses and charities, and mentioned that she had been a small business owner herself. It is noticeable that many Government Members have run their own businesses. She rightly said that we want to make Britain business-friendly.

My hon. Friend the Member for Skipton and Ripon (Julian Smith), who also ran his own business before entering this House, did a sterling job in delivering his speech despite having lost a contact lens—none of us noticed. He made an important point about communicating with small businesses via Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, something I am sure Ministers will bear in mind. He also talked about making the employment allowance simple to administer. As my hon. Friend the Exchequer Secretary said in his opening remarks, the employment allowance will be delivered through employers’ standard payroll software and HMRC’s real-time information system. There will be no need for a separate application form or an annual return to report deductions. There will, I hope, be no extra forms, which is good news for small businesses.

[Ian Swales]

I warmly welcome that simplicity. Does the Minister regret, as I do, the previous Government’s practice of announcing measures that were so complicated that they then asked the Treasury to calculate the savings that would accrue from non-take-up?

[Nicky Morgan]

My hon. Friend’s intervention says it all. Government Members have run small businesses and know that we need to keep paperwork, in all its forms, as simple as possible. People who run businesses do not want to spend their evenings and weekends filling in forms. They want to spend that time growing their businesses and taking on their next employee.

[Catherine McKinnell]

The Minister is making a powerful argument, but it leads to the question: why did the Government introduce a national insurance holiday scheme in 2011 that was so complicated they could reach only 6% of the businesses it was targeted at?

[Nicky Morgan]

We heard earlier on that that was a time for a temporary target. We were dealing with the deficit and coping with the legacy left to us by the previous Government. We now have the opportunity to introduce a wider employment allowance. The hon. Lady should not try to teach us lessons about schemes, given the complexity of their scheme, which thankfully, they did not have the opportunity to introduce. How can the fact that 26,000 businesses have benefited and 90,000 jobs have been created be a failure?

[Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend find it as amazing as I do that Opposition Members can only snipe at schemes that are clearly designed to appeal to existing small businesses and will incentivise the starting up of new small businesses, which is what our economy desperately needs?

[Nicky Morgan]

My hon. Friend is right: that is exactly what our economy needs. I have been at the Dispatch Box only a few times, but, sadly, I am not surprised to see the Opposition sniping. That is exactly what we expect. The parties on the Government Benches are about action and putting in place measures to help businesses to take on their next employee.

My hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield talked about a culture of entrepreneurialism. I am glad that he had a slightly larger audience than the one he had on Friday, but his remarks have been heard and noted—he should have no fear on that score.

My hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) made a thoughtful contribution, in which he spoke of the Government having put in place a package of measures to support businesses. He mentioned the regional growth fund, which is making a difference in our constituencies to businesses large and small, and the investment culture. Hon. Members rightly paid tribute to his work to support start-up businesses through all manner of schemes.

I am grateful to have had the opportunity to respond to most of the issues raised. The Bill will help to continue to support a stronger economy in the United Kingdom. It will make avoiding tax harder and make creating jobs easier. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS BILL (PROGRAMME)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the National Insurance Contributions Bill:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Thursday 28 November 2013.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Anne Milton.)

Question agreed to.

NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS BILL (WAYS AND MEANS)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the National Insurance Contributions Bill, it is expedient to authorise—

(1) provision for, and in connection with, the application of the general anti-abuse rule in relation to national insurance contributions;

(2) the payment into the Consolidated Fund of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable into that Fund under any other Act.—(Anne Milton.)

Question agreed to.