Prisons and Courts Bill

Sarah Wollaston Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 20th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) and so many other experts who have spoken already from both sides of the House. It is also a pleasure to have caught your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, and to be called to speak so early in this Second Reading debate on a Bill that commands cross-party support.

The Bill contains much that is commendable. I warmly welcome the strengthening of regulations on whiplash injuries and the provisions on the introduction of new technologies in court procedures. I was pleased to hear the Secretary of State describe how courts in the south-west of England—my part of the world—are doing so well in using technology.

I will focus on prisons and prison reform. I am delighted that the Bill sets out the purposes of prisons, in particular that they should

“reform and rehabilitate offenders”

and

“prepare prisoners for life outside prison”.

Many Members have expressed their concerns about the prison system, but none, I think, has dwelt on the reoffending statistics, which have remained stubbornly high. The rate of reoffending by young offenders is running at 68.7%, the rate among those sentenced to less than a year in prison is 60%, and the overall reoffending rate is 44.7%. Such rates come at a cost of £15 billion a year. That is not the cost of reoffending overall; it is the cost in relation to reoffending by those who were in prison. It is right that we refer in the Bill to the necessity of reforming and rehabilitating offenders.

The statistics that I just cited compare badly with those for our international counterparts. Some countries do particularly well—Denmark’s reoffending rate is 29%, and Iceland’s and Singapore’s are both 27%, but Norway leads the field with a rate of 20%. I accept that the legal jurisdictions in some countries are very different from our own, but it is worth looking at where there is good practice and seeing what we can learn. In that regard, I was pleased to visit a young offenders institution in Norway, just outside Bergen. Prisons in Norway have been compared, unfairly, to holiday camps by some in our country’s media, but given Norway’s reoffending rates, it would be churlish to ignore its example. When there are good lessons to learn from other countries, we should try to learn them.

[Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there are also examples of good practice in this country? I visited a project in my constituency, LandWorks, which works with offenders providing routes into employment, mentoring and counselling. It offers an extraordinary range of opportunities and achieves reoffending rates of just 4%. Does he agree that we should look at practical examples in this country and roll them out more widely?

[Michael Tomlinson]

I agree absolutely and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. It is clear that LandWorks is doing an excellent job in her area. We heard from the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) about the good work that is done in Parc prison, which is being rolled out internationally. When we can learn, whether from institutions in our own country or abroad, we should be big enough and brave enough to learn those lessons, to adopt good practice and to roll it out across the country.

The two principles I learned from my visit to the young offenders institution in Norway related to staff ratios and officer training. There, all prison officers are either graduates or have completed a two-year training programme. I was pleased to hear my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State say that we are recruiting more prison officers and more is being done to improve their training. Earlier today, I learned of the “Unlocked” graduate scheme—a two-year programme, I think.

--- Later in debate ---

[Amanda Solloway (Derby North) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to speak in this debate, and I intend to focus on part 1, too. As stated in clause 1, we should aim to

“protect the public…reform and rehabilitate offenders…prepare prisoners for life outside prison, and…maintain an environment that is safe and secure.”

I am pleased to sit on the Joint Committee on Human Rights under the excellent chairmanship of the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman). I have been appointed within the Committee to the role of rapporteur on mental health, and our first inquiry has been into self-inflicted deaths in prisons, based on the Harris report of 2015. In common with others, I have been conscious of previous reports such as the Woolf report of 1991, the Corston report of 2007 on women in prison and, more recently, the Harris report of 2015 on suicide among young prisoners. There are merits in all those excellent reports, which have been welcomed, yet find more people are still taking their own lives in prison—12 women and 107 men in the last year alone.

I have visited many prisons in my role, and the first point to note is that prisons should be and are places of punishment. They do, however, have their challenges and responsibilities when it comes to human rights, so I would like to explore a few of those.

To me, strong leadership is vital, because good practice needs to come from the top and cascade throughout the system. I welcome, of course, the proposed increase in the number of prison officers, because it is undeniable that the system is stretched. We must therefore make sure that the new officers get proper training, and we should also consider existing officers, who might have become demoralised in their work. We should ensure that they, too, are aware of and adhere to the new standards, while being fully supported and trained in the new expectations. This will necessitate a culture change—a change of attitude and behaviour—which requires investment across the board, not just to increase staff levels.

Let me provide a simple example that has nothing to do with money, just good practice. We heard evidence that in one prison an orange file was used if prisoners were suspected of having a mental health issue. Of course no one wants to be branded as having such issues, so prisoners are reluctant to seek medical help in case others see them with the orange folder. With a little forethought, a simple solution arose relating to good practice. Why not use a file the same colour as all the others? It would be no extra cost, but would deal sensitively with the prisoner’s needs.

On my first visit to a prison, I was struck by the amount of banging on doors in cells. At one point, it became unbearably loud with a prisoner striking the wall and door with his chair and shouting at the top of his voice. What really concerned me, though, was that the cell was shared. Imagine being the person who had to share a cell with someone who was kicking off like that. Imagine the impact that would have on your own wellbeing.

At the time I asked a prison officer what the problem was, and was told that the yard time had been stopped because of the weather. When I asked how often that happened, I was told that it happened a lot, and that some prisoners would kick off at night, waking the whole floor. As a result, no one would get any sleep, and the next day they would all be irritable. The problem just goes on. We must ensure that enough exercise and association time is provided, and that the time in the cell is not excessive. I welcome the fact that an increase in the number of prison officers will make that possible, but please, please, we must consider time outside the cell even if it is raining, because the frustration and anger are evident if that is not allowed.

A great deal needs to be done. I welcome the Bill’s aim of reforming and rehabilitating offenders, but let us not underestimate the challenge of the culture that exists in prisons. Let us not deny that drugs are available, that there is a workforce that needs to be reinvigorated, that a gang culture exists, and that for some prisoners prison is just a way of life.

[Dr Wollaston]

My hon. Friend is making some compelling points. Given that suicide rates are higher than they have been since records began in the late 1970s, does she agree that the best way of addressing the many important problems that she has raised would be to include in the Bill the mental and physical health needs of prisoners as part of the purpose of prison?

[Amanda Solloway]

I thank my hon. Friend for her comments. I am about to make some further suggestions.

I have heard accounts of returners walking through the doors, winking at the officers. and saying, “Ay up guv, it’s me again.” However, I have also heard harrowing stories of prisoners with mental health issues and learning disabilities who had absolutely no idea why they were there. Of course, people find themselves in prison with mental health issues for several different reasons. The condition may be triggered by the use of new psychotic substances, there may be an existing addiction to drugs or alcohol, or there may be existing but unidentified mental health issues. There is increasing evidence that veterans are entering the prison system with mental health issues, often with too much pride to admit there is a problem, and ultimately taking their own lives. Organisations such Care after Combat are working to tackle that, but we need to identify it before such tragedies occur, and educate officers and others.

We must ensure that a mental health assessment is carried out thoroughly on arrival, and is subsequently ongoing; that we have good, strong leadership; that we increase our investment in people, resources and training; that existing officers are reinvigorated and trained; that exercise time and association time are always guaranteed; that departments work together with, perhaps, a key worker to bring them together; that families are involved—they need to be involved, and indeed they have to be; and that the time between determination of a mental illness and transfer to a mental health hospital is as brief as possible.

I could speak for much longer, but let me end by saying that at the heart of this issue are people like Dean Saunders. He was not a hardened criminal. His family did not know what to expect from prison, but they knew that Dean had mental health issues. When he was admitted, he was denied treatment. In the words of his mother,

“He was in there for two and half weeks with no medication, no support, and no family support. They took all his rights away, everything”.

Dean had previously tried to take his own life at home. His mother said:

“We fought and saved him that night at home, but part of us wishes we hadn’t, because all we did was to get him locked away for two and a half weeks on his own, with no support and no family contact. He just suffered for two and a half weeks until they let him do it again. At least if he had done it at home we would have been with him.”

I welcome these reforms, because we need them. Instead of just talking about what we should do, we must actually do something.

[Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

Mr Deputy Speaker, I am learning to love my place in the pecking order in this building: first, because I get to hear splendid debates such as this one in their entirety, and in particular the thoughtful and moving speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Amanda Solloway); and, secondly, because by my maths, I have an hour in which to speak—[Interruption.] Oh, dear; well, perhaps half an hour. I hope that Members are all sitting comfortably.

Four years as deputy mayor for policing taught me everything I needed to know about the dreary cycle of despair that our criminal justice system had become. The endless merry-go-round of the same people going through the hands of the same organisations year in, year out turned me into a “convicted” penal reformer, so I am extremely pleased to welcome the Bill.

My four years at City Hall left me broadly with two frustrations, which I will share with Members because I think that they have some bearing on the Bill. The first is that while there have been attempts at rehabilitation in the criminal justice system—presumably not as ambitious as the proposals of my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor—too often the effort and money were spread far too thinly. The jam in a finite world was spread very thinly across the youth estate and the adult estate to the extent that the marginal difference that the funding or any programme might make was hardly noticeable. The research into rehabilitation programmes attempted in the criminal justice system over the past 30 years shows that not many of them have made a difference above 2% or 3%, and much of that has often been explained away by the characteristics of the people they have been dealing with. While this Bill is extremely welcome and I approve wholeheartedly of the bias towards rehabilitation in part 1, and although I know that much of the radicalism of the Lord Chancellor’s programme is in the White Paper, I urge her to think carefully about where she puts her resources.

In my view, the earlier we spend the money, the better. We get much more bang for our buck by spending money on offenders aged between 18 and 25 than, sadly, by spending on somebody over 25. The truth about crime is that generally people either grow out of it or become habituated in it. That is why the bulk of offenders tend to be under 25, hence that is where we should be spending the money. If we had endless sums, we would obviously spread the money, but we do not, so I urge the Lord Chancellor to spend it in the way I propose.

My second frustration was the paltry sentences that were often handed out for very serious crimes. Individuals in London who were convicted of quite serious non-fatal stabbings would be given four years and then would be out after 24 months. That really is a disgrace and, as we learned in London, such a sentence is certainly not a significant deterrent to the commission of those kinds of crimes. The truth is that people were being given those sentences and let out that early because of the pressure on the system and the numbers in it. Time and again I would get the message back that the police and the Crown Prosecution Service were nervous about putting cases in front of the courts because of the pressure on prisons, and often because the youth estate was struggling to take the people it should be taking, particularly given that it often had to separate individuals because of gang affiliations.

That means that we need to clear out some space. In short, my view is that we are locking up far too many of the wrong people, but not locking up the right people for long enough. Lots of clever, smart technology-based disposals are available these days for low-level offending, such as tagging and testing. We should be pushing hard and much more enthusiastically to put those measures into effect in this country so that we can clear space in our prisons, meaning that longer sentences can be served by those convicted of serious offences, particularly violent crime.

On part 2 of the Bill—the courts section—I welcome the reforms, and particularly the use of technology, because we know that there are broadly two deterrents to committing crime: first, the probability of getting caught, which is down to the skill of the police; and, secondly, the certainty and swiftness of sentencing. Criminals who are caught and then put before the courts swiftly, and who are certain in the knowledge that they will be convicted and of what their sentences will be, are much more likely to be deterred. Anything that brings about swift and certain justice is therefore to be welcomed.

Overall the Bill is heading in the right direction, but there are three areas in which I would like the Secretary of State to consider welcoming amendments from me. The first is about the probation service. I have long held the view that we will make very little progress on the rehabilitation of offenders outside prison until the police get involved. For my money, probation should be an arm of policing. Offender management in the community should be done by the police. That would be more effective, because they have personnel in those communities 24 hours a day, and they are already monitoring many of the offenders.

Such a change would also yield enormous savings. At the moment, there are double estates, double chief executives and double HR departments, and all the people—probation officers and police officers—are often sitting in the same meeting talking about the same individual. Giving the probation service to the police and letting them manage offenders in the way they are supposed to be managed would be a huge step forward. Let us consider the health service. If we separated GPs into a different department from hospitals, everyone would think we were mad, yet we put the police and the management of criminals coming out of the secure estate into different departments. Bringing probation back would be an enormous improvement. It would signal a step change in offender management on the streets that would make a huge difference, and it would also save money.

The two other amendments are of less significance, but they might help the Lord Chancellor with her budget. The first is to do with coroners courts. I do not know how she voted on this matter, but I am a proponent of assisted dying. I have supported it for a long time, and I think it is the next great liberal cause for this country. However, there is a wrinkle in the law that causes unnecessary distress to those who travel overseas for the purpose of seeking assistance to take their own life. At the moment, if the family of the deceased return from Switzerland with their ashes, there is no inquest and they can scatter them in privacy. If, however, they wish to repatriate the body of the deceased, the coroner has an obligation to open an inquest because the death is deemed to be uncertain. There might well be an autopsy, and a criminal investigation would follow, although a prosecution would not, because the Crown Prosecution Service has already given guidance that it will not pursue the prosecution of people who have travelled overseas for the purpose of assisted suicide.

An amendment to the Bill allowing coroners the same discretion as they have in this country for those kinds of deaths, if they were satisfied of the purpose for the individual travelling overseas, would allow people to bring the body back for burial in the UK. That would save the coroners courts time and money, because several hundred people have now been involved in such cases, and it would also avoid enormous distress for families who naturally want to fulfil the wishes of the deceased, but fear an inquest and prosecution, and therefore opt for cremation overseas. Such a provision would be a small adjustment to remove an inconsistency in the law relating to prosecution by the CPS and what coroners are obliged to do, and it would relieve a huge amount of distress.

The third amendment that I hope the Lord Chancellor will consider relates to charging for alcohol and drugs testing. She might be aware that, some years ago, I managed from outside this place to get alcohol abstinence orders on to the statute book. There was a huge battle in this House and the House of Lords, but in the end we beat the then Lord Chancellor, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), who objected to people convicted of alcohol-related offences being compelled to be sober for three or six months. Anyway, we got this on to the statute book, but the Government would not agree to offenders being charged for their testing.

In similar schemes overseas, offenders are charged for their testing. In the US, for example, they pay $1 a test—about £1 a test—and that changes the psychology involved. It means that offenders who undergo testing of their sweat, urine or breath take more responsibility for their own sobriety. They are investing in their own freedom. By undergoing the testing, they are avoiding a prison sentence, which means that they can maintain contact with their families and keep their jobs, but they have to remain sober for three or six months. Having to invest a small amount in those tests means that, psychologically, they are taking responsibility for them, and it also means that the scheme is self-funding. Under such a system, police and crime commissioners, who have not taken up this disposal with alacrity, despite the fantastic results when it was tried in Croydon, would have the business case to do so, because it would be a source of funding for them.

[Dr Wollaston]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the immediacy of consequences has contributed to the success of such schemes overseas? In other words, if someone fails a test, they are immediately taken back into custody.

[Kit Malthouse]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. When I was at City Hall, we found that this disposal had taken off like wildfire in South Dakota—the judges loved it; it was enormously effective; recidivism rates were incredibly low; and the compliance percentage rates were up in the high 90s. This is all based on the notion that justice is swift and certain if an offender contravenes the rules of the scheme, and that offenders take responsibility for their own punishment and feel invested in it. Every time they reach for a drink, they have to decide whether they want to stay out of prison. As a result, the disposal has been enormously successful and is spreading across the entire United States. We have the power here; it just needs the small adjustment of allowing the police or courts to charge offenders a nominal amount for testing—money that they were spending on booze or drugs—which would allow them to invest in their own rehabilitation and therefore make some progress.

I welcome the Bill. It is a refreshing step in the right direction of breaking the dreadful merry-go-round with which I lived for far too long.