EU-UK Summit

Debate between Sarah Olney and Richard Tice

Thursday 22nd May 2025 Westminster Hall

[Sarah Olney]

I am so sorry to hear about the resentment that the hon. Gentleman feels at the deal that his Government negotiated. However, he must accept that that is the basis on which the new deal has been struck. That was the starting point for the negotiation. I am sorry to hear it was so terrible, but that was the starting point.

The betrayal by those who advocated for the opportunities of Brexit did not end there. Of course, it was not just the Conservatives, but the leader of the Reform party. The public were promised that immigration would fall. Instead, it has risen to record levels. Far from the economic liberation that the Brexiteers pledged leaving the EU would bring, the OBR has estimated that barriers to trade with Europe will reduce the output of our economy by 4% over 15 years.

More than that, we know how much public opinion has shifted on this issue, as many have come to realise that the promises of the leave campaign were so detached from reality. The leave campaign promised £350 million a week to the NHS, but the truth has become painfully clear. The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) gave the game away in an interview in December. Speaking about America, he said that

“it’s got cheap energy, because it ‘drill baby drills’, they’ve got lower regulations and they’ve got lower taxes.”

That is the real Brexit agenda: environmental vandalism, stripping away regulations that keep us safe and cutting taxes for the rich. I hope Members will acknowledge the extent to which that campaign misled the public.

[Richard Tice]

We have heard lots about reducing bills, but the hon. Lady has just confirmed that the greatest bill, which affects so much, is the cost of energy, and America enjoys energy prices that are a third of ours because it uses its own domestic energy treasure.

[Sarah Olney]

I am so glad that the hon. Gentleman raised that point, because what he will need to accept in time is that the way forward for cheaper electricity bills in this country is to invest in renewable energy. That, more than anything else, is what will reduce the cost of energy for consumers and businesses. The more renewable energy we have, including from wind farms off the east coast, the quicker we can get to reduced bills for our constituents.

The Liberal Democrats welcome many parts of the new agreement. It marks a distinct and positive step towards reversing the damage caused by the Conservatives’ pitiful negotiations with Europe, and I welcome the progress on those issues. I am sure that the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith) will welcome the fact that the Liberal Democrats would echo his call for a return of the European Scrutiny Committee; I agree with his comments on that.

According to a recent study from the London School of Economics, the Brexit deal reduced goods exports by £27 billion, or 6.4%, in 2022. Smaller firms were the most affected. The Government say that the new deal will add £9 billion to the UK economy, and we welcome the decisive step to address the disastrous damage that Brexit brought to our economy.

However, ahead of the last general election the Labour party drew itself some self-defeating red lines. The timidity in negotiations with Europe seems to be driven more by a fear of the Reform party than a commitment to bring forward proposals that would benefit the British people. Joining a new customs union with the EU is one such line. However, they are acting less like lines and more like chains weighing down on UK growth and prosperity.

Budget Responsibility Bill

Debate between Sarah Olney and Richard Tice

2nd reading
Tuesday 30th July 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker; congratulations on your election.

The Liberal Democrats understand the importance of a stable economy to the wellbeing of our nation, and we will support the Bill as it makes its way through Parliament. We have seen the effects of the chaos and uncertainty wrought by the previous Conservative Government in their horrendous mismanagement of the economy, and we know that future prosperity can be built only on a firm foundation.

The former Member for South West Norfolk may have intervened to prevent officials from using the phrase “disastrous” mini-Budget in the King’s Speech document, but this was a disaster for which many millions across the country continue to pay the price. Liberal Democrat MPs have been returned to this House in greater numbers than ever before, because we understand how much our constituents have suffered from the increase in mortgage payments, higher fuel bills and escalating food prices that resulted from the disastrous mini-Budget. We will do all we can to tackle the cost of living crisis being felt by so many, and we welcome the new Government’s commitment to building a strong platform for economic growth. We welcome the Bill as a symbol of strengthened fiscal responsibility and transparency, which we hope will prevent a repeat of the Conservatives’ disastrous mini-Budget under Liz Truss from ever happening again. After the turmoil of the outgoing Conservative Government, we welcome the seriousness of intent from this Government as they rebuild trust with the financial markets and the business and financial sector as a whole.

The financial irresponsibility and unfunded tax cuts in the mini-Budget sent mortgage rates soaring and continued a pattern of low growth, falling living standards and business uncertainty under the Conservatives. Millions of people across the country continue to see the devastating impact of their disastrous governance in their food and energy bills and to feel its heavy burden in their personal finances.

A recent report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that 320,000 people have been pushed into poverty because of mortgage interest rate rises caused by the incompetence of the previous Conservative Government. It has been devastating to hear the stories of so many households dragged into poverty, and to know that so many families are struggling under the worst cost of living crisis in a generation. It is painful to reflect on the thousands of people who were hoping to make progress in their life and improve the circumstances of their family, but find themselves pulled backwards by the weight of the costs now piled upon them. The IFS report tells us that the number of adults unable to keep their home warm enough increased from 1.8 million in 2020 to 4.6 million in 2023. The IFS attributes that increase to the rise in mortgage interest rates during that period. The statistic lays bare in shaming detail the enormous and ongoing impact that the Conservatives’ disastrous mini-Budget had on all our lives.

The positive responses that this Bill has evoked from the broader business and finance sector are indicative of the desire for industry stability. We welcome the engagement from economists and industry experts, who advise of the Bill’s beneficial impact on confidence in public finances. Even the former Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Jeremy Hunt), has acknowledged that he is minded to support the Bill. We will carefully scrutinise its details to ensure that it will achieve its intended aims. In particular, we will look closely at the threshold for fiscally significant measures, set out in the legislation as measures worth at least 1% of GDP or approximately £30 billion, and will consider whether that provision could be circumvented by Government announcing major changes just below that threshold.

The proposed terms set a substantial threshold that would have to be reached before the OBR could insist on intervening. That raises questions about how easy it would be for a Government to skirt the rules and avoid scrutiny from the watchdog. We understand that the bar has been set relatively high to prevent a large-scale irresponsible fiscal event, such as the disastrous mini-Budget, but we are aware of the limitations that places on the Bill. In particular, an announcement could have a largely indirect fiscal effect—it could have an impact on the economy, but come at a small up-front cost to the Government—and therefore not trigger the fiscal lock. We therefore ask the Chancellor: can a GDP measure alone adequately capture the impact of a spending or taxation measure on the economy? Should the Government examine the possibility of using additional criteria in establishing the threshold?

We must consider the wider context in which the Conservatives’ damaging mini-Budget came about to determine whether the measure that we are debating would be sufficient to prevent such a disaster ever happening again. The Conservatives’ period in government, and the last two Parliaments in particular, were characterised by a distaste for the institutions that provide checks and balances on power, and efforts to actively undermine them. Throughout the past few years, we have seen attacks on the judiciary, the civil service, the BBC, the Bank of England, the EU and any British citizen who dared express the view that the Government’s botched Brexit deal was doing enormous damage to our economy. We have seen the provisions of international treaties airily discarded. Conservative Ministers even illegally prorogued Parliament. Even now, in the Conservative party leadership contest, it seems that the one thing all candidates agree on is a promise that the UK will leave the European Court of Human Rights.

The disastrous mini-Budget emerged from the philosophy that the power of central Government, exercised by successive Conservative Prime Ministers, can trump that of other vital independent institutions, and it is precisely that philosophy that we must never again see from Government. The ongoing failure of the former Member of Parliament for South West Norfolk to apologise for the disastrous mini-Budget underlines the fact that she thinks she was both entitled and correct to unleash it on an unsuspecting country that voted for neither it nor her.

Truly addressing the causes of the systemic failure that led to the disastrous mini-Budget will take a great deal more than this Bill. It requires the Government to work alongside institutions that exist to support and challenge their decision making. It requires the Government to submit their proposed measures to parliamentary scrutiny. The Liberal Democrats think that reforms devolving power to local bodies to decentralise decision making would also strengthen our ability to take long-term decisions in the national interest. This Bill and other measures are encouraging signs of this new Government’s intention to ensure that those in power act with more integrity and transparency, but ultimately, unless all Governments are committed to upholding the principles of fiscal responsibility, transparency and sound governance, the risk of future disasters such as the mini-Budget will remain.

In our general election manifesto, we set out the need for every fiscal event to be accompanied by an independent forecast from the OBR. More broadly, we wish to see the Government foster stability, certainty and confidence by managing the public finances responsibly, getting national debt falling as a share of the economy and ensuring that day-to-day spending does not exceed the amount raised in taxes. We must make the tax system fairer by asking some of the wealthiest companies in the world to pay their fair share—the big banks, the oil and gas producers and the tech giants—instead of adding even more to the burden on hard-working families. To improve stability and growth, we need to fix our broken trading relationship with Europe and set up an industrial strategy, helping to make Britain one of the most attractive places in the world for businesses to invest. We must work in partnership with responsible, sustainable businesses to tackle the climate emergency, and spur the growth that is needed for investment in health, social care, education and other essential public services.

Responsibly managed public finances are essential if we are to have the stability, certainty and confidence that drive economic growth, and they are vital in getting mortgage rates under control, too. Under the outgoing Conservative Government, we found out just how much pain and damage can come from fiscal irresponsibility. The Liberal Democrats want a thriving British economy that provides jobs and opportunities and is attractive to businesses and investors. We welcome this Bill as a useful step in that direction that will help to improve long-term stability and responsible economic management.

[Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker.