Carer's Leave Bill

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Committee stage
Wednesday 9th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

It is a delight to be a member of this Bill Committee. I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife on bringing the Bill, and I am absolutely delighted that the Government are supporting it.

Unusually, we find ourselves in violent agreement on the reasons behind the Bill. Prior to the pandemic, it was calculated that about 4.9 million people across the country were juggling some kind of unpaid care with paid work. As the hon. Lady said, it is almost impossible to quantify that work because so many carers do not identify themselves as such and often go without the support and help they need. We know that such caring work has an almost unquantifiable impact on their lives and causes undue stress. As a result, those people may find that they have to leave the workforce.

Many of us never consider that we might become unpaid carers, but Carers UK has calculated that two thirds of us will end up fulfilling that role at some stage in our lives. I saw that for myself when my mum was an unpaid carer for my nan. At the time, we were running our family business, and as I had just had my first child, my mum was part of that sandwich generation that my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster spoke about. Of course, the responsibility for caring so often falls to women, which is why so many fall out of the workforce. I saw the impact that those caring responsibilities had on my mum, on her professional life and on every aspect of her own health and wellbeing.

Staying in work while providing such care can be incredibly challenging. That is why the Bill is so important. I am honoured to chair the all-party parliamentary group on carers, which is proud to support the Bill. We know that, in prioritising someone else’s health and care needs, carers up and down the country are not prioritising their own, which can have a massive impact. People do it not for reimbursement or money, but almost entirely out of love and responsibility, and we must recognise that.

As our population ages and changes, and as the way we work changes, we need to ensure that we change with them, because the number of people juggling work and care will only ever increase. We already lag behind other countries when it comes to workplace rights for carers. Many advanced and further ageing economies—including Japan, Canada, the US, Germany, Ireland and France—have some form of carer’s leave in place.

Leave entitlement for carers was a Conservative manifesto commitment for the 2019 general election, so it is disappointing that it has not been introduced by a Conservative Government, but I am grateful to the hon. Member for North East Fife for doing so. I am pleased, however, that the Conservative Government recognise that the right for unpaid carers take up to a week of leave could make a real difference between somebody staying or leaving the workforce.

It would be a good thing for employers, too, as my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne said. We always talk about the productivity gap, the skills gap and retaining excellent and experienced staff, but people’s caring responsibilities often kick in during the second half of their working lives, when they are at their most experienced and have the most expertise. Businesses face the enormous financial burden not only of losing them and their expertise at that stage, but of the ensuing recruitment costs. I am pleased that the key definitions and parameters that are built into the Bill align with existing provisions for other family leave, making them easier for employers to implement. That is important because we want to minimise the burden on employers and make arrangements easier for employees to understand.

I think this is an excellent piece of legislation. Carers have done so much for our country—they save the NHS and our social care system so much money—so this is the best thing we can do to give something back. That is why I wholeheartedly support the Bill.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Paisley. I wholeheartedly congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife, who has fought a serious campaign on this subject. She speaks from her heart, and from her constituents’ experience, which is the best place from which to try to make a change.

I also congratulate the Government on listening, and on agreeing to this Bill, but I will challenge them a little towards the end of my speech, if that is okay. The Bill is indeed a crucial step forward. It is important partly because it is recognition of what carers do and bring to this country. They do an enormous amount, and the services that they provide save the Government a lot, but as the Bill recognises, that comes at enormous personal cost to the carer. In 2019, over half of respondents to the Multiple Sclerosis Society’s family and friends survey said that they did not have the support they needed, and more than one in three had given up work altogether to care for someone with MS. It is not right and not productive that an average of 600 people a day leave work to care for someone.

Baby Loss Awareness Week

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman is right. We are still going forwards, although nowhere near as quickly as we would want to be going, but there have been some backward steps along the way. A lot of the changes that we have introduced have not yet had the opportunity to take full effect, and I am hopeful that as we move forward we will begin to see neonatal death rates reduce. As I just mentioned, when babies are born at or close to full term, the rate has dropped significantly. It is pre-term births that are causing a lot of concern for us, which is why we are putting continued effort into this issue.

In the long-term plan that was published in January, the NHS committed to accelerate action to achieve the national maternity safety ambition. Maternity services will be supported to implement fully an expanded “Saving Babies’ Lives” care bundle across every maternity unit in England by 2020. The development of specialist pre-term birth clinics will be encouraged in England, which should help very much.

NHS England and NHS Improvement will continue to work with midwives, mothers and families to implement the continuity of carer model, so that by March 2021 most women will have a named individual caring for them during pregnancy and birth and postnatally. That will help to reduce pre-term births, hospital admissions and the need for intervention during labour. It will also improve women’s experience of care.

Let me return to bereavement care. Members will be aware that for three years the Department of Health and Social Care has provided funding to the charity Sands for it to work collaboratively with other baby loss charities and the NHS to develop and pilot the roll-out of a standardised national bereavement care pathway for parents who have experienced baby loss, whether through miscarriage, termination after receiving a diagnosis of foetal abnormality, stillbirth, neonatal death or, indeed, sudden infant death. The pathway sets out nine standards for good bereavement care and has so far been adopted by 40 trusts. I hope that many more will follow.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I was contacted by one of my constituents, whose baby died in July at 26 days. She still, now, has been unable to get counselling support. Will the Minister look into giving clear guidance to clinical commissioning groups to make sure that the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance on bereavement is there for everyone?

[Caroline Dinenage]

Yes. That guidance is there. My heart goes out to the hon. Lady’s constituent. If she wants to get in touch with us about any lack of access to care and support, we will almost certainly be able to help and look into it for her.

Bereaved parents need time to grieve. I take this opportunity to congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake)—I do not think he is present—who last year had a fantastic private Member’s Bill. As a result, from 2020 the Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Act 2018 will give all employed parents a day-one right to two weeks’ leave if they lose a child who is under the age of 18 or suffer a stillbirth from 24 weeks of pregnancy.

Finally, the NHS commits in the long-term plan to improve access to and the quality of perinatal mental healthcare for mothers, their partners and children, by increasing access to evidence-based care for women with moderate to severe perinatal mental health difficulties and personality disorder diagnosis. We also want to increase access to evidence-based psychological support and therapy, including digital options in a maternity setting; the development of maternity outreach clinics, as I have already mentioned, that will integrate maternity and reproductive health; and psychological therapy for women experiencing mental health difficulties directly arising from or related to their maternity experience.

In conclusion, the Government and NHS are fully committed to reducing the number of babies who die during pregnancy or in the neonatal period, and to providing that absolutely fundamental and much-needed support for bereaved families.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Thursday 23rd March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

Some 54,000 women are forced out of work due to maternity discrimination. Will the Government look at reducing the extortionate fees for employment tribunals, and will the Minister specifically look at extending the time for application from three months to six months?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women and Equalities (Caroline Dinenage)]

We are consulting on proposals to extend the support that is available under the help with fees schemes. We propose that the gross monthly income threshold for a full fee remission should increase to £1,250, which is broadly the level of the national minimum wage.

Visible Religious Symbols: European Court Ruling

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

I thank the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) for raising this important issue. The ruling is not as clearcut as press articles would have us believe, but it does raise real concerns about religious freedom in the workplace, including for Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab. When making their ruling, the judges relied on the concept of workplace policies that require neutrality. Neutrality has specific cultural significance in Belgium and other European countries, based on their particular meaning of secularism, which does not resonate in Britain. Does the Minister agree that this concept of neutrality is illogical, as a customer, patient or service user could not make a valid assumption as to the religious persuasion of a company, or perceive that a company is particularly favouring one religious group or another, by virtue of how its employees dress?

Women and men must be allowed to choose their expression of faith. Simply put, this judgment is not consistent with the British liberal and human rights tradition. Of real concern are the implications that this may now have for faith communities. Already, the far right across Europe is rallying on the judgment. I thank the Minister for making a clear statement today that people can express their faith, in a professional manner, in the workplace, but can she confirm that this Government believe that preventing women from wearing the hijab, as exampled in this case, is simply and unconditionally wrong?

What is the Government’s position on the concept of a dress code for staff that requires neutrality in the workplace? I am pleased that the Minister has confirmed that she will be working with the EHRC on updating the guidance to employers on this ruling. Will she confirm that it will reinforce the rights of employees in the UK to express their religious freedom?

G4S holds a number of Government contracts. Has the Minister reinforced with G4S, the employer in this situation, its employees’ rights to wear clothing necessary for their religious practice in the UK?

[Caroline Dinenage]

It would be helpful if I were to talk a little about the background to this, in order to aid our wider understanding. We are dealing with two cases here. The first, Achbita, was about whether a dress code banning the outward expression of personal belief was directly or indirectly discriminatory against a female Muslim who was sacked for wearing a headscarf. The second, Bougnaoui, concerned the same point, but it also raised the issue of whether a customer’s request not to be served by an employee wearing a headscarf can be a genuine occupational requirement. The ruling confirmed the current position under EU and domestic discrimination law: that a dress code that applies and is applied in the same way to all employees does not constitute direct discrimination but may constitute indirect discrimination. However, importantly, an employer’s willingness to take account of a customer’s wishes about staff wearing religious dress does not constitute a genuine occupational requirement. It is very important to point that out.

As I have stated, employers can enforce a dress code, but it must be proportionate and legitimate, and must apply equally to all employees. If an employer wants a neutral dress code with no religious or political symbols being worn, that must equally apply to all employees and religions. However, it remains unlawful to directly discriminate against someone because of their religion and to create any kind of spurious rules that will prevent the wearing of religious clothing or jewellery. The Government take this very seriously. Hate crime of any form will not be tolerated. The Government will not stand by and let that happen. We are very clear about where we stand on this. People will be protected in their workplace and, as I said, we will be reinforcing the guidance on religion and belief in the workplace which the EHRC has published. We will be making sure that employers are well aware of their responsibilities in that way.

Draft Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties and public authorities) regulations 2017

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Wednesday 22nd February 2017 General Committees

[Caroline Dinenage]

I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate. I start by emphasising that we fully agree that it is unacceptable that the gender pay gap exists in this day and age. The UK’s overall gender pay gap is just over 18%. While that is the lowest on record and has consistently fallen, it is doing so too slowly, and voluntary reporting has not led to sufficient progress.

This challenge faces us all. I am really proud that the Government will lead by example. The regulations, alongside those aimed at private and voluntary sector employees, will drive action that promotes better, greater gender equality in workplaces across the country. The gender pay gap obligations apply to specified public authorities if they have 250 or more employees. We estimate that around 3.8 million employees in the public sector will be covered by the new gender pay gap reporting requirement. Indeed, the combination of these regulations and those for the private and charitable sectors will cover more than 15 million employees in 9,000 organisations, representing nearly half the total workforce. That is a massive step in the right direction.

Public bodies with more than 150 employees are already required to report on the diversity of their workforce and are encouraged to publish gender pay gap information. We are very keen in the first instance to place the same requirement for gender pay gap reporting on all employers, to ensure consistency and comparability. We have started in the public sector with the threshold of 250 employees, which aligns with section 78 of the Equality Act, but we will keep the threshold under review. The regulations and the ACAS guidance will, in any case, help organisations of any size to analyse their gender pay gap. We are not limiting reporting to those with 250 or more staff. Anybody can do it, but at present, those with 250 need to.

We have consulted massively on this. The right hon. Member for Slough said that the regulations were out of date. The idea may have arisen in 2010, but we have consulted on the regulations numerous times over the past year or so in order to get them exactly right, to make them timely and relevant and to ensure we took on board the views and expectations of all the different aspects of society. The majority of respondents to the public consultation who answered the question about the proposed scope agreed that the gender pay gap obligations should apply to authorities with 250 or more employees. Having said that, I have already spoken to employers with somewhere between 200 and 250 employees who are doing that reporting because they feel it is too close for comfort and do not want to be in a position where they suddenly slip into that larger number and get caught out.

The gender pay gap reporting requirements will be reviewed by the Secretary of State five years after commencement. Although that is the formal point for reviewing the obligations, we will of course closely monitor compliance on a much more regular basis, to ensure that the measures are effective and are working as intended. Ensuring that employers comply with the regulations is, of course, of the utmost importance to the Government. The Government Equalities Office will closely monitor that compliance by reviewing the data uploaded to a Government-sponsored website.

The Equality and Human Rights Commission can take enforcement action if a particular public authority has not complied. In line with the rest of the specific duties regulations, the Commission has powers to issue a compliance notice and can apply to the courts for orders requiring compliance. We have discussed with EHRC how the new system will operate and we will work closely together after reporting begins in March.

[Sarah Champion]

The Government have been great at naming and shaming businesses that are not paying the minimum wage. Does the Minister envisage that she will be doing the same thing with the gender pay gap?

[Caroline Dinenage]

That is an excellent question. That is the whole point behind ensuring that businesses and employers have to publish their data publicly. They cannot be hidden away in the murky depths of their website. They need to be in a really accessible place so that we can compare the data and tackle any worrying sectors or employers.

The regulations do not require mandatory equality objectives connected to gender pay gap data or action plans, but all employers will be strongly encouraged to publish information on how they intend to tackle the gender pay gap in their organisations. That is why we have strongly encouraged a narrative. Many public bodies have indicated that they are keen to publish a narrative alongside their gender pay gap calculations, so that they can provide more context for any gender pay differences, and highlight work to reduce any gaps. We know that sometimes the organisations that are doing some of the best work to bring women through the pipeline have, on paper, some of the worst gender pay gaps, but they are investing in a much more long-term strategy. That is where that narrative is really important.

We know that transparency is not a silver bullet. The hon. Member for Rotherham and the right hon. Member for Slough have spoken about the things that are missing here. We are not pretending for one second that this is a silver bullet, but it will incentivise employers to analyse the drivers behind their gender pay gap, which is what this is all about, and the extent to which their policies and practices might contribute to that gap.

We are also working closely with ACAS to deliver guidance for public bodies to help employers fully understand and implement the regulations and understand why they are good for their organisations and businesses.

The hon. Member for Rotherham asked why the Government had not accepted all the recommendations from the Women and Equalities Committee. Of course, we massively appreciate the important role that that Committee plays on the issue. I was one of the MPs in the previous Government who campaigned hard to get a Women and Equalities Committee. We carefully consider all the recommendations it makes. The report makes a number for Government, several of which we have already actioned. For example, the right to request flexible working already allows those with fewer than full-time hours to request the opportunity to work more.

Many of the recommendations would involve significant cost to business and, because we are so early in the process, they would also require changes to primary legislation, which has been in place for only 12 to 18 months. In particular, shared parental leave and flexible working are very new. We would rather wait until these new policies have had time to become established and sufficient evidence has been gathered on what works before changes are made.

Draft Equality Act 2010 (Gender Pay Gap Information) Regulations 2017

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Wednesday 25th January 2017 General Committees

[Caroline Dinenage]

I speak as someone who ran a small business for 20 years before I came into Parliament, so I look at it from a different perspective. I do not want to be part of a Government that is crippling, penalising or over-bureaucratising small and medium-size enterprises. Although I am interested in what the Scottish Government have done and will keep it under review, I personally think that the regulations are the best place to start. As I will go on to explain, we want to take business with us at every stage. This is not a punitive measure on business; it is good for business. Making sure that a business encourages the growth, prosperity and development of every single one of its talented workforce is not only the right thing to do but brings massive future economic potential for this country.

The Young Women’s Trust found that 84% of surveyed women aged 16 to 30 would consider an employer’s gender pay gap when applying for a job, and 80% would compare employers’ gender pay gap data when looking for work. Of the employers and business organisations that responded to our first consultation, 82% agreed that the publication of gender pay gap information would encourage them and other employers to take action to close the gap. We can see that bringing business with us on this and convincing them of the merits of it has been one of the key successes of our how we have gone about our policy so far.

[Sarah Champion]

I support what the Minister is saying, because the 11 companies that voluntarily reported said that it led to a more open workplace where employees stayed longer. However, I challenge her on the point that she made to the hon. Member for Livingston, because what we talking about is actually a simple line of coding in an already existing payroll. It is not a big or onerous requirement, so this is not a question of putting overburdening administration on businesses; I think not taking forward reporting for smaller businesses is Government will.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I have to disagree, given that the last thing businesses need is unwieldy bureaucracy from a nosey, over-centralised, self-serving, self-satisfied Government. I speak as someone who, for 20 years, ran a business that had just under 20 employees. We were crippled by much of the legislation that came from the Labour Government. The bureaucracy and paperwork that I had to deal with on a daily basis, on all manner of things, became a real burden on my ability to employ people and create wealth and prosperity for this country. I therefore take increasing the burden of legislation on businesses seriously. If it is unnecessary, I am not prepared to do it, but we will keep the matter under review.

The regulations require employers to publish the relevant information on their own website in a manner accessible to employees and the public. Hon. Members have asked how it will be displayed, saying that it should not be squirreled away somewhere. The information will have to be accessible. All employers within the scope of the provisions will be expected to publish the required information annually, and no exemptions are envisaged. A written statement signed by a director or senior employee must also be published online. As well as confirming the accuracy of the required information, that will ensure that business leaders take ownership of tackling any identified gender pay gaps. We will also require the information to be published on a Government website.

Transgender Equality

Debate between Sarah Champion and Caroline Dinenage

Thursday 1st December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Dinenage]

My hon. Friend never ceases to amaze me with his encyclopaedic knowledge of all manner of important issues, and this is no exception. He is right that we must keep pace with modern technology and always keep it in mind when we make Government policy and change legislation.

Several hon. Members, not least my hon. Friend the Member for Bath, who has campaigned hard on the issue, talked about managing offenders. When I was a Justice Minister, my hon. Friend and I worked closely on a number of particular incidents that he raised. Managing transgender offenders has been a major concern and we have taken action. A number of events involving transgender prisoners in autumn 2015 highlighted the need for the policy on their treatment to be given a more fundamental reappraisal. When I was in the Ministry of Justice, I led on that work and last month the Government published their review and confirmed the position. That is why we will, from now on, manage anyone received into services run by the National Offender Management Service in the gender with which they identify rather than the sex assigned to them at birth.

[Sarah Champion]

Will the Minister confirm whether that includes immigration detention centres?

[Caroline Dinenage]

I will come to that. Detailed guidance has been provided to staff on how to implement the changes. An advisory board has been set up to inform policy and establish best practice on the treatment and care of transgender and non-binary offenders in prison custody and under the supervision of the national probation service. I will write to the hon. Lady about immigration detention services. I know that the advisory board had its first meeting on 25 November.

Several hon. Members spoke passionately about health, particularly the hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown). As she said, ensuring accessible and prompt health services for trans people is of continued concern. I am pleased that good, collaborative, progress is being made. Discrimination against trans people in the NHS is not allowed and is unacceptable. NHS England has convened a number of multi-agency symposiums to begin to address this issue. The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) will be pleased to know that NHS England and the General Medical Council have acted on the Select Committee’s recommendations by publishing new guidance on GPs’ responsibilities in treating trans people. We are also tackling the very long waits to access gender identity services, and we are beginning to see results: the average waiting time for patients to receive reconstruction surgery at Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust has dropped from 94 weeks to 61 weeks, and is getting better.