Covid-19

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Monday 2nd November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Many of the decisions we make in this House pass over the heads of the general public, sometimes because they only affect a small group, and other times because they take a long time to show an effect. But as the hon. Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) has starkly illustrated—I will not go through it all for the sake of time—the decisions that we are making today will have an immediate impact on people across the country and a detrimental impact on their businesses, wellbeing and health.

I will make three observations. First, many of the decisions that we have made and are making here are based on the views of experts which, unfortunately, we have accepted uncritically. Of course, it is human nature, when we are faced with situations that we do not understand and that have a bad impact on our lives, to turn to those who we believe have some knowledge and understanding.

In primitive societies, when famines, plagues or diseases struck, people turned to the medicine men, who came with a bag of bones that they threw on the ground. They then made their analysis and told people what sacrifices had to be made to satisfy the gods. I suspect that our sophisticated society is not much different. We call them chief medical officers and they bring their computers with their models. They tell us what the problem is and what the sacrifices have to be, regardless of the impact on society.

We are criticised for criticising experts, but given some of the predictions that we have heard, we have to ask whether they have shown that they understand it. We were told that there would be 500,000 deaths by now and, in the middle of September, that there would be 50,000 new cases a day by the middle of October. Neither has happened. We bought, or ordered, 90,000 ventilators because we were told that the national health service would be overrun; we used fewer than 4,000 of them. I could go on. We have to ask whether we uncritically accept the words of those who say that they are expert advisers.

Secondly, we must look at the entirety of the impact of the decisions we make. Unfortunately, we seem to have become obsessed with coronavirus and the impact on the health service, without looking at the impact on the economy and on people’s lives.

Thirdly, we must ask ourselves what the alternatives are. The evidence shows that this disease does not affect the whole of society. It has a disproportionate impact on a particular part of society—elderly people—yet we are using instruments that affect everybody. Very few deaths occur among people of working age, and many who are infected do not go on to have any real detrimental effects, yet we treat everyone the same. I do not have time to explore this, but the Great Barrington declaration advocates a targeted approach, and I believe that the Government should be looking at adopting that approach, rather than this blunt instrument of bashing the economy and bashing the populace in an unmerciful way.

Coronavirus Act 2020 (Review of Temporary Provisions)

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Wednesday 30th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

In the face of pictures from hospitals in Italy and reports from China of the number of people who were dying from this disease, this House gave the Government untrammelled power in this Act to take action to protect the public; but I have to say, Minister, that that power has been used in a way that has frustrated many people across the country. Their ability to work, to socialise, to go to school and to travel has been affected. Often the measures taken have been seen as illogical, inconsistent, contradictory and unnecessarily damaging.

[Jim Shannon]

Very quickly, one of the issues that has come to my attention—the number of emails has been enormous—is to do with the enforcement of vaccines on those people who do not wish to have them. I personally would take such a vaccine, but others will not. Does my hon. Friend agree that when it comes to vaccines, it should be by choice only?

[Sammy Wilson]

Well, of course, that is an issue that the Government will have to address in the future, if ever a vaccine is found.

The important thing is the frustration that many in the public are experiencing at present. It might not have been totally wiped out, but I believe there certainly would have been far more scrutiny if this House had not just had the ability to listen to statements or ask questions, but had actually had the real sanction that if the Minister did not make a consistent and competent case for the measures that he was introducing, they could be voted down. That is why the demand that there be effective scrutiny by this House is important.

We have listened to what the Minister has said, but I am not convinced that we will see that effective scrutiny; because if I heard him right, first, it would only be for matters that are significant. Now, who will make the judgment on whether the issue is significant? I can tell the Minister that, if I own a business and it is decided that it could be closed down, that is significant; yet we do not know who will make that final decision.

The scrutiny will only be for issues that are national. Sixteen million people are currently affected by a range of local decisions and local restrictions. That, to me, is as bad—half the nation, half the country, is affected—yet according to the Minister’s definition today that would not be covered because it would not be a national decision. And, of course, scrutiny will happen where possible. I suppose if the Government wished to escape scrutiny they could always say, “But this has suddenly emerged,” even though the data could have been collected days and days before. So who will decide whether it is possible to have the time to do this?

[Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)]

As ever, my right hon. Friend makes the most powerful points. Does he agree that perhaps a special committee to decide what is significant—do lots of locals make a national?—would be a good way forward, so that we can decide what should be debated in this House and what can be left properly to Ministers to decide on a regular and rapid basis?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is significant to me to try and get as many Members in as possible. Please let us try to make sure we leave time for others.

[Sammy Wilson]

It certainly should not be left to those who have wanted to rush through decisions and those who in the past have wanted to escape scrutiny because the decisions have been illogical and inconsistent, and people cannot understand them, and even some of those who have made the decisions do not understand them and sometimes have a different interpretation.

This is not just about MPs having a sense of their own importance. This is important if the measures are to have acceptance among the public, because with that kind of scrutiny, with a final vote, at least if we were not convinced that the measures were necessary, if we were not convinced that they would not have disproportionately damaging effects, if we were not convinced that they would actually work, if we were not convinced that the public would understand them, we would have the right to say, “Minister, you cannot proceed with them,” and have the opportunity to vote them down. I do not think we have had a convincing assurance from the Secretary of State today about when we would have that kind of role, and if we do not have that kind of role, I do not think that we should support the continuation of these kinds of measures.

Health and Social Care

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Yes. I would be very happy to do that. I was struck by my hon. Friend’s enthusiasm for solving this problem when I visited during the election campaign. The problem is absolutely linked. The inability of ambulances to get off the ramps, so to speak, at the Norfolk and Norwich, is causing problems for ambulance response times. Many other hospitals have cracked this problem. I look forward to working with him and the Norfolk and Norwich, along with other local MPs whose constituents are affected, to try to solve that problem.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

May I first welcome the announcements the Secretary of State is making today? One of the benefits of being a part of the Union is that Northern Ireland, through the Barnett consequentials, will benefit from the huge influx of money into the health service. Northern Ireland has one of the longest waiting lists and we need many reforms to our health service. What work will he do with the newly appointed Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that the money is used effectively when it comes to the Northern Ireland Executive?

[Matt Hancock]

I look forward very much to speaking to and working with the new Health Minister in Northern Ireland. I am delighted that there is a ministerial team in Northern Ireland and I pay tribute to everybody who has worked so hard to make sure that that can happen. The right hon. Gentleman is right that the funding will increase. There are significant challenges in Northern Ireland, about which he knows all too well, and I look forward to trying to resolve them. The truth is that in Northern Ireland the number of people waiting more than a year for an operation is 10 times higher than in England, despite the much smaller population. It is four times higher in Wales, despite the fact that the Welsh population is smaller. We have to solve those problems and I look forward very much to working collaboratively across the Union to make sure that they are resolved.

Contaminated Blood

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Monday 20th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ben Gummer]

As my hon. Friend will know, the existing schemes already provide additional support in the form of welfare or benefits. Any new scheme must not only include the measures in the existing schemes that work well but adjust the parts of those schemes that do not work well.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

We understand how frustrated many people will feel about the fact that the Government can rush through measures to deal with English votes for English laws—which is not even an issue in the current Parliament—while an issue that has been lingering for 30 years will now be subject to consultation that will itself be delayed, despite a manifesto promise. The results of the consultation will then have to be worked out. Moreover, the Minister has said four times that the decision will be made in the context of the spending review. Can he assure us that budgetary considerations will not delay the process even further?

[Ben Gummer]

The hon. Gentleman raises the issue of English votes for English laws. That has been deferred, because the House wishes to discuss it further.

On the issue before us, a report was delivered in March, but the general election then intervened, which effectively took six weeks out of the time in which the Government could make decisions. We began work the minute we returned to government, and I have now provided an update and the prospectus for a consultation in the autumn. It will be the first consultation that the sufferers have ever been able to enjoy, and we will finish it as quickly as possible in order to arrive at a settlement. That is rapid progress, given that it has taken us more than 30 years to reach this point.

Aerospace Industry

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd September 2014 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure, Mr Hollobone, to serve under your chairmanship. It is equally a pleasure to speak in this debate, and I thank the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Sir Peter Luff) for securing it. He has outlined the case brilliantly, although he did not mention Northern Ireland, so I will do that and correct the balance. That is important, because we have an industrious and successful industry in Northern Ireland that creates many jobs, and I will outline that in my contribution.

As the Democratic Unionist party spokesman for transport, this subject interests me, not only because of its magnitude, but because it creates many jobs in my constituency, both directly and indirectly. It creates jobs directly in the companies, and indirectly through sub-contracting. Many companies come into the engineering sphere because of the good work done through the aerospace industry.

We should all feel immensely proud of the UK aerospace industry, and we have every right to be proud of it. We boast the largest aerospace sector in Europe and we are second globally only to the United States. We should shout our successes, not from the rooftops, because we are not on the rooftops, but in the Chamber. The importance of the continued partnership of the Government and the industry through the aerospace growth partnership cannot be underestimated, as the latest figures from the ADS, which represents the aerospace, defence, security and space industries, suggest. As of 28 August, there was a record backlog of more than 12,000 aircraft and 21,000 commercial aircraft engines orders. With the economy still only making a slow recovery and thousands of jobs not yet secure, that is fantastic news for the aerospace industry and for the United Kingdom overall, with estimates that the backlog will be worth between £135 billion and £155 billion over the next nine years. That is not a paltry sum and it indicates how much the aerospace industry contributes to the economy of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The aerospace industry is extremely positive. While everything else makes slow and steady progress, the industry has been growing at a pace 10 times quicker than the rest of the economy in the last three years, outstripping many employment sectors. That is another example of the importance of the Government’s partnership with the industry. I am sure that the Minister and the shadow Minister will underline that clearly in their responses. The new orders are simply part of long-term industry growth, with estimates of demand for more than 29,000 commercial airliners between now and 2032, which is in line with the airlines’ desire to carry more passengers and expand their fleets. The future looks positive, and it is positive because of the direct attitude the Government have adopted to the industry, but—as the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire said—other things need to be done to keep us in a prominent position.

The situation certainly looks promising, and I must admit that I was keen to contribute to today’s debate not only in my capacity as my party’s spokesperson for transport, but also because of the massive contribution that Northern Ireland makes to the industry. The main factory in Northern Ireland is located in Newtownards in my constituency. I am pleased about that, of course, and I can boast of having one of the most technologically advanced and internationally focused aerospace industries in the world right in my constituency, giving job opportunities to many young people.

The hon. Gentleman referred to apprenticeships, as did the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle), who has commented on the issue before in Adjournment debates and in Westminster Hall, and I am pleased to see such opportunities coming through for people in my area. Bombardier has more than 5,000 highly skilled employees across four sites in Northern Ireland. The site in Newtownards is the biggest, but there are others in Newtownabbey and Belfast. Bombardier promotes many job opportunities, and it is important to see that happening. With first-class capabilities, the site’s operation plays a pivotal role in all of Bombardier’s families of commercial and business aircraft. It also produces and sells components for Rolls-Royce, Airbus and General Electric. Bombardier’s CSeries aircraft has significant UK content, primarily through the advanced composite wings that were designed, and are manufactured, by Bombardier Aerospace in Belfast.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Sir Peter Luff) emphasised the importance of research and development. One of the ways in which Bombardier has kept its place in the market and, in particular, kept production in Northern Ireland has been through the research and development money made available by the previous Government to ensure that the investment required in Northern Ireland to keep the competitive edge was made. Does my hon. Friend agree with the point made by the hon. Gentleman on the need to think about the long term, because the period of return is long term? It is important to think about long-term research and development incentives if the aerospace industry is to be maintained at its current standard in Northern Ireland and the United Kingdom.

[Jim Shannon]

I thank my hon. Friend for that valuable contribution. He is absolutely right. Sometimes you wonder, Mr Hollobone, whether people have looked at your notes before they make an intervention, because often they raise issues that you were going to come on to. The Northern Ireland Assembly has made a significant commitment to Bombardier—the Minister responsible for that is Arlene Foster—as have this Government and other Governments. We have a huge range of aerospace companies operating in Northern Ireland, including B/E Aerospace, Magellan Aerospace, Goodrich, RFD Beaufort and Thales, to name just a few, so it is perhaps not surprising that one in three of the world’s aircraft seats are manufactured in the village of Kilkeel in Northern Ireland. Look around the world and think of all the planes there are and remember that a third of those seats are manufactured in Kilkeel in Northern Ireland.

Even more good news for Northern Ireland and UK industry was the announcement—this relates to the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson)—of a £6.8 million advanced engineering competence centre in Northern Ireland. That is a commitment to the future and to research and development. The centre will be based at the Northern Ireland Advanced Composites and Engineering Centre in Belfast and will focus on developing innovative solutions in the advanced engineering sector. In other words, it will look at the long-term progression of aerospace, not just in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but in Europe and the rest of the world.

The centre is tremendous news locally, as it will no doubt create more jobs, but it is also brilliant news for the UK aerospace industry as a whole. As opportunities in civil aerospace grow, the UK faces increasing competition from mature and emerging markets, so the new centre will, I hope, develop new approaches for advanced engineering, because being ahead of the competitive market is the only way we can ensure that we remain first in Europe and first in the world. That is the point I want to emphasise. We are aiming at short-term goals, but we are also trying to achieve a long-term strategy.

The figures I gave are testament to just how successful and important the aerospace industry is to the UK economy and our ability to compete globally. That is why I urge the Government to work alongside their partners, not just to encourage technological innovations, which are important, but to lead the way in cutting emissions, reducing fuel burning and increasing aircraft efficiency. Those are important issues that we cannot walk away from, and the aerospace industry is trying to address them. That can be done, and we must do our best in tackling them.

One thing that is close to my heart is my wish to see the Government encouraging students and young people to undertake the necessary courses at universities and technical colleges, as the hon. Member for Burnley said. We need not only aerospace engineers and technicians to replace the current generation—we have to look at that—but staff who can work with new technologies and materials. We need further education at universities and technical colleges to work alongside the industry to ensure that the bright brains of our young people are there to take on those jobs.

I am pleased to learn that almost 70% of UK aerospace companies employ apprentices and trainees. That is tremendous news. Each year we meet some of those trainees here in Westminster, as I did this summer. It was good to meet some of the young men and women who are interested in the industry and looking for opportunities. We have a commitment from Government, both here at Westminster and regionally, to ensure there are apprenticeship opportunities for both genders. This is exactly what the industry needs. Provided we continue to develop and innovate, I believe that the future of UK aerospace is very bright indeed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con)]

It is a delight to participate in the debate under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone, and to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Sir Peter Luff), who was my colleague at the Ministry of Defence. He has done us all a great favour in raising the debate, which follows a debate we had on 22 November 2012. Many of the key points that have surfaced in today’s debate were also mentioned then. I share his recollection of the Viscount flying over Windsor because I was at school at Haileybury and Imperial Service College junior school in Windsor. Indeed, I used to fly on the Viscount 700 from the then new Heathrow airport to my home in Hamburg in Germany.

I also share an appreciation of the Farnborough air show, which takes place in my constituency. Those present who did not attend the Farnborough air show need to report to my study afterwards to explain why, because the whole world comes to Farnborough. Interestingly, this year the air show was responsible for the signing of a record number of orders for new aircraft and systems. About $83 billion of business was done at the last air show; this year $200 billion of business was signed at Farnborough. It is hugely important to the British economy and to our industry.

Farnborough is home to BAE Systems, the world’s fourth largest defence contractor, and QinetiQ, which is one of the world’s leading research companies. QinetiQ holds more than 1,500 patents, 1,000 patents pending and has 1,000 defence contracts at any one time. Farnborough also has the headquarters of AgustaWestland International. Its senior vice-president in charge of international business is no less than our former colleague Geoff Hoon, with whom I get on extremely well. He is doing a great job promoting the interests of Westland around the world. I also have a lot of smaller companies in my constituency, such as Cam Lock, which makes face masks for every US naval fast jet in operation and for the Royal Air Force. I have EWST, which makes electronic warfare testing equipment. I have Sonardyne, which makes detection equipment. A huge amount goes on in my constituency, and I hope hon. Members will understand why I am keen to take part in the debate.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire said, aerospace is a hugely successful business in the United Kingdom. We are world leaders. We have the second largest aerospace industry in the world and the biggest in Europe. We have 17% of the world market. The UK industry is split 50:50 between civilian and military. It employs 109,000 people directly and 120,000 indirectly. It is a massive contributor to manufacturing industry. Everyone is talking about the importance of the manufacturing industry for this country, but we have in our midst the world’s second most successful manufacturing industry. Let us go out there and promote it. It is not just BAE Systems, QinetiQ or Rolls-Royce, but a whole string of companies, whose names I cannot exhaust. I will single out a few: MBDA, which stands for Matra BAE Dynamics Alenia; Cobham; Marshall; Babcock; Serco; Martin-Baker; and Bombardier—formerly Short Brothers. I have seen some of the fantastic work that goes on in Northern Ireland, which is world leading in missile technology.

Aerospace manufacturing is done across the kingdom, including in Scotland, which I hope will remain part of the kingdom. As the son of a Scottish borderer, I am going to Scotland on 15 September—battle of Britain day—to fight for the maintenance of the Union of the United Kingdom.

We have hundreds of SMEs—another success story. In 2008 there were 380 enterprises engaged in this industry, according to the Library’s very helpful brief. Today that figure is 560. This industry is growing, and it provides prosperity to the United Kingdom. That is critically important. Interestingly, the 2009 Oxford Economics paper states:

“A £100 million investment in the defence industry generates an increase in gross output of £227 million, and increases Exchequer revenues by £11.5 million.”

[Sammy Wilson]

Northern Ireland is the ninth biggest European region for the aerospace industry and we therefore greatly feel the pressures. Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there are great pressures on the industry because of the high exchange rate, the difficulty in getting finance from banks—and the effect that has had, especially on the small and medium-sized enterprise supply chain—and the anti-competitive practices in other countries, where certain firms are given advantages that we do not have in the United Kingdom?

[Sir Gerald Howarth]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point about having one hand tied behind our back. Our businesses are not hugely helped by the anti-corruption legislation that we have put in place, which other countries do not sign up to as readily as we do. In fairness, I acknowledge the huge importance of Northern Ireland in the wider United Kingdom aerospace business: it is an integral part, not an add-on.

The aerospace industry contributes two things. First, there is the prosperity, which I have illustrated. Secondly, it provides us with the sovereign capability to defend ourselves. That is critically important. We can all see what is currently going on around the world. It is devastating for those of us who have been around a bit. Things have never looked so uncertain, volatile and frightening. We need to remember that we have taken our defence for granted. In much of it, we are assisted by the United States of America, its massive spending programme and its lynchpin role in NATO. In the United Kingdom we have the ability to defend ourselves. We are not reliant on other people, who might withhold technology or equipment. We must be able to generate such things in the United Kingdom.

When my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire and I were in the MOD we had a battle about whether we should have a defence industrial strategy, and whether maintaining a sovereign capability in the United Kingdom should be a key Government policy. He and I were on the same side. It is common knowledge that some of my colleagues in the Conservative party took the view we should not have any kind of industrial policy. They felt that was interventionist and socialist. I do not accept that. The Government have a responsibility for the defence of the realm. That is the first duty of Government. We have responsibility to ensure we have the means to protect ourselves. Two years ago I paid tribute to Lord Drayson, who produced the defence industrial strategy, and I do so again. It is one of best, most articulate and clearest documents to be produced on this matter. As Lord Drayson said, we have to remember that today’s kit is the result of yesterday’s investment. Therefore, we have to invest today.

I congratulate the Government on what they have done on the aerospace growth partnership and the defence growth partnership. There has been a genuine partnership, with industry and the Government working together. That is the sort of thing we need to do and I warmly welcome it. Industry is also doing well on the skills front. BAE Systems has a huge investment in taking on young people and giving them skills. Leo Quinn, the chief executive of QinetiQ in my constituency, is seriously concerned about the promotion of skills. As my hon. Friends the Member for Mid Worcestershire and for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) said, we need to do more to promote the merit, mobility, importance and excitement of the manufacturing industry, particularly in the field of aerospace and defence.

We should, however, be concerned, because the order book of BAE Systems is declining. It stands at £40 billion and that is a massive figure, but it is falling, and we know the pressure that defence budgets are under around the world. There is increasing competition from other countries. We have promoted defence exports—and the Prime Minister has been magnificent in giving a lead on that—but it is not possible to sell anything nowadays without being prepared to transfer the technology. We face a growing challenge from India and China, who want to take their place in this important marketplace. If we will have to transfer our technology every time we seek to sell the Typhoon or other important military equipment, what is there for the United Kingdom? How are we going to feed our people? That is where innovation comes in. That is where investment in technology, and defence research in particular, comes in. I could not agree more with the comment by my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire that innovation underpins growth. I have made a note that the only way we can compete is by innovation. We are all on the same page with that.

The Government have a role to play. Unfortunately, there has been a fall in defence research by the Ministry of Defence. The latest figures are not encouraging. In 1990-91 the Government spent, at 2012-13 prices, pretty well £4 billion on defence research. That figure fell to £1.8 billion in 2010-11. Fortunately, industry seems to be spending more. According to KPMG, 75% of respondents to a survey said that they would spend between 2% and 3% of revenues on research and development in the next two years; 16% said they would spend between 4% and 5%. If we are to maintain our position in the world we must do that. We must also decide where we go after the joint strike fighter. I have been visiting BAE Systems at Warton for many years. When I used to go there 20 or 30 years ago, I would always be told “We are okay for the next five or 10 years, and then there is a cliff edge.” The Typhoon came along, and now we have JSF—but where do we go after that? I do not believe that manned fighter aircraft can simply be consigned to the dustbin of history. Manned flight still has a critical role to play, particularly in situation awareness.

I welcome what the Government and BAE Systems are doing with Taranis, which is an ITAR-free programme that I launched to the press, who were not allowed to come within 50 yards of it, I am pleased to say. However, we need to maintain the technology. Taranis is a great technology demonstrator. We need more technology demonstrators and we also need a proper debate on where the industry will go, post-JSF.

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hunt]

Absolutely, because this is a package designed to deal with all avoidable harm, and hospital-acquired infections are an avoidable harm. It is designed not only to have much more transparency on the levels of harm in our hospitals, but to make sure that there is a culture of openness so that when people spot things that are going wrong, it is in their interests and in those of their hospital that they speak out. The changes are likely to result in—my hon. Friend will be the first to notice this—an increase in the amount of reported harm over the next few months. That will not be a bad thing, because it will mean that hospitals will be reporting harm that up until now they have not reported. We should welcome the fact that that will then mean that this harm will be addressed.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Although health is devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, the culture and its consequences identified by the Francis report can nevertheless occur in the health service anywhere in the United Kingdom. What plans does the Secretary of State have to share the lessons learned and actions taken with the Health Minister in Northern Ireland and, indeed, with all the other devolved Administrations?

[Mr Hunt]

I am very happy to share any of the lessons we have learned, but I do so from a position of humility, because we still have to address very serious challenges in our NHS in England. It will take us time to sort them out. I am happy to work with any devolved Administrations. Indeed, I would like to work with other countries across the world, because the challenge of how to deliver high-quality, compassionate health care when resources are tight and with an ageing population is one that all countries face.

Tobacco Products (Plain Packaging)

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Westminster Hall

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The Government face a choice: to make policy on the basis of emotion—indeed, of emotional blackmail—or to make it on the basis of evidence. I welcome the recent statement by the Government that they will look at and assess the evidence, then take a decision on that basis. That is an eminently sensible way to approach making policy.

Other Members do themselves a disservice if they take a particular position on the sale, manufacture and distribution of tobacco, saying that those activities are somehow aligned with those of child killers, cancer pushers and drug dealers. That is the import of what is being said today about people who wish to defend an industry that employs 66,000 people in this country. If we put it out of business, it will not reduce the consumption or sale of cigarettes by one; they will simply be manufactured in other countries and imported here, and they will continue to be smoked here.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that despite the statistics that have been given here today, and despite all the health warnings and pictures on cigarettes, 200,000 people are still recruited into the cigarette industry every year? It is evident that the packaging—the shape and colour, and what is on it—does not deter people from smoking.

[Ian Paisley]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I shall deal with the evidence on three issues. First, the Republic of Ireland has the tightest, harshest laws on public smoking. When it introduced those laws 10 years ago—it set the trend on this—smoking stood at 30% of the public. After 10 years of enforcement, enforcement, enforcement, today the number of people who smoke in the Republic of Ireland is 30%. There has not been one single change to consumption, yet we are told that this drive is all about reducing consumption. It does not actually work.

How do we address consumption? We do what the hon. Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) says: educate young people. In Germany, they have done that and consumption has fallen to 16%. Why? Because they educated the very young and persuaded people that smoking was not the course of action they should take. They educated them away from cigarettes. They also do another thing: they enforce. In other words, an adult cannot go into a shop, buy fags and give them to a 16-year-old. They enforce against adults who do that. Unfortunately, many people in this country go into shops and purchase cigarettes, or purchase illicit trade cigarettes out of the back of someone’s car, and then give them to young people. We should enforce against that.

I also want to deal with the myth about illicit trade. The hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) should know much better. To suggest that HMRC is on top of the illicit trade in this country is to put one’s head in the sand. Last year, HMRC gave evidence to the Select Committee on Northern Ireland Affairs about illicit trade, and tobacco was dealt with. HMRC is fighting a tsunami of counterfeit trade in this country.

In my country, 25% of all cigarettes smoked are illegal. In Scotland, the figure is about 27%. If we are pretending today that the authorities are on top of the issue, we are absolutely, totally and completely wrong. We have to recognise that counterfeiters are rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of their job being made easier. They will be able to get a simpler package cover that is standardised across the whole UK and push it out across the UK, getting people to smoke brands that are counterfeit and illicitly brought into the country. Remember that the people doing that are not Sunday school teachers; they are serious organised criminals who are involved in serious criminal endeavours.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I congratulate the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) on securing this important debate and on his excellent speech. I hope that we do have a debate and a vote in the House on this issue. I also pay tribute to the work that has been done over many years by my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams). He recently got a World Health Organisation medal for his work to try to control tobacco. That is very well deserved.

The tobacco industry clearly has a desperate fight on its hands to keep its profits. Over many years—many decades—it has resorted to a range of techniques. One story that used to be told was that if someone smokes, they are less likely to get Alzheimer’s disease. That is absolutely true, as has been said—but the main reason is that they are quite likely to die before they get Alzheimer’s disease. I am not sure that that is quite what was intended.

The question that we must ask when thinking about proposals to introduce plain packaging, which I completely and utterly support, is this: will it work? Study after study shows that with plain packaging, the packs will be less attractive to adults and to children and that that will reduce the number of people taking up smoking. Some 200,000 children take up smoking each year. We could make a real change. Smoking is presented as cool, but that is not the type of cool that we want to see. We can make a difference.

In Australia, there is already research on what the effects of plain packaging have been. It is very clear that plain packaging increases smokers’ urgency to quit and lowers the appeal of smoking. It is going the right way; it is having the right results. That is why I was so disappointed to see the Government’s decision to wait until we have a clearer view of the impact in Australia.

From a scientific perspective, it always makes sense to wait for better evidence. We could wait another year, five years, 10 years or 100 years and we will get more and more evidence, but in the meantime people will be taking up smoking and dying as a result. We simply do not have the luxury of waiting for ever to get the most perfect possible results. Australia has understood that and taken action, and many countries around the world, from Ireland to India, are following that lead. As the Australian Attorney-General, Mark Dreyfus, highlighted, the laws are “anti-cancer, not anti-trade”. That is where we should want to be.

[Sammy Wilson]

The hon. Gentleman talks about how plain packaging makes smoking less attractive, but the evidence from Australia is actually that plain packaging makes those cigarettes less attractive than those that have a brand name on them, not that it makes smoking less attractive. It simply makes one packet less attractive than the other. There is no evidence that it reduces the number of people coming forward to smoke.

[Dr Huppert]

I think that we have seen different data sets from Australia. My understanding is very clear that there is a substantial reduction there.

We will continue to see the resistance; we will continue to hear the arguments that if tobacco is legal, it must be possible to sell it freely. We have already heard the summary from “The Oxford Medical Companion” that tobacco is the only legally available consumer product that kills people when used entirely as intended. That is something that we should rightly be concerned about. Although the tobacco giants will continue to fight their case, we have a duty and a responsibility to fight on behalf of the people who will continue their lives—who will continue their healthy lives.

The fact that MPs from across the political spectrum—this is shown by the vast majority of speeches here today—have come together to ask for a U-turn on the original U-turn is proof of the political will that exists to take on tobacco. We know that that is supported by the public outside the House. I hope that we will keep raising the issue and that we will have a chance to make the difference.

Suicide Prevention

Sammy Wilson Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr McCrea]

I agree wholeheartedly about the importance of those pathways. It is vital that every effort be made to ensure that persons at a vulnerable moment in their lives—this is what the hon. Lady was talking about—receive the best possible support. I will develop that point later.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that, as well as prison leavers being vulnerable to suicidal tendencies, one of the groups at most risk are young males involved in the drug culture, and is it not odd, therefore, that some people are still campaigning to legalise drug use?

[Dr McCrea]

That is very true, and I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend’s comments. Again, I will seek to develop that point later.

The figures I gave a moment ago represent a welcome reduction on the highest-ever recorded figure of 313 suicides in Northern Ireland in 2010. Nevertheless, Northern Ireland continues to experience higher rates of suicide among adolescents and young adults, particularly young men, than any other part of the UK.

Deliberate self-harm is also a significant problem, with a growing number of cases being seen in hospital accident and emergency departments. Statistics from the Department of Health, Social Services and Public Safety suggest that almost 500 patients presented at the hospital emergency department in Belfast with deliberate self-harm between April and June 2012. Many more incidents never come to the attention of health services at all. In 2011, the highest rate of registered suicides was recorded in the parliamentary constituencies of Belfast West and Belfast North. In my constituency, 18 lives were lost to suicide, 16 of them males.