Owen Smith
Main Page: Owen Smith (Labour - Pontypridd)Department Debates - View all Owen Smith's debates with the Wales Office
(10 years, 1 month ago)
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Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab)
I beg to move,
That this House expresses deep concern at the impact of the Government’s policies on Wales; notes the Government’s real-terms reduction of the Welsh budget by £1.5 billion; notes that Wales currently suffers from the lowest average rates of pay in Britain and has the highest proportion of individuals affected by cuts to social security including the bedroom tax; further notes that Wales suffers the highest energy bills in the UK and that these, along with low pay, have compounded the cost of living crisis in Wales; and calls on the Government to immediately scrap the bedroom tax, freeze energy bills and undertake measures to increase pay rates in Wales.
When devolution was created in 1997-98 by the last Labour Government, it was very much intended as a measure to make Wales more accountable, to give us a greater level of self-determination, and to see autonomy for the Welsh people and bespoke Welsh solutions for Welsh problems. The unspoken motivation behind that, especially in Wales where the miners strike was so fresh in our memories, was to protect the Welsh people from the prospects of a future Tory Government. Pit closures, steel closures, the legacy of de-industrialisation and people shunted on to incapacity benefit to languish there for so many years, were fresh in our minds, and they were absolutely behind the idea that we would, with devolution, have an additional bulwark against the destructive economic philosophy of the Tory party.
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Is the hon. Gentleman admitting here in this Chamber that one of the reasons Labour supported devolution was not because it wanted to change the constitution, but because it thought that it could control the Welsh Assembly at all times?
Owen Smith
No. We had campaigned for devolution for 100 years, and it was absolutely about changing the accountability to the Welsh people, making all the obvious constitutional changes. However, for many of us on the left in Wales it was also about guaranteeing a Government who would to a greater extent reflect our values and defend Welsh people against the values of the hon. Gentleman’s party and this Government. Four and a half years on from the return of a Tory Government, we now have an opportunity to measure exactly what the impact of that Government has been and, six months from the next election, think hard about how effective those defences have been.
Owen Smith
We would have done, as my hon. Friend knows—he promotes me unduly and unfairly—and perhaps we should have done, but we are always fair-minded and therefore did not do so. However, I think we are convinced that what we did do was afford Wales some extra protection against the ravages of a Tory Government, about which we are about to hear more.
Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con)
I just want to give the hon. Gentleman an opportunity to correct his statement that the Labour party had campaigned for devolution in Wales for 100 years. I know that he is a great admirer of Aneurin Bevan. I come from the same town as Aneurin Bevan, and I am sure that he did not campaign for devolution.
Owen Smith
I hate to say it, but the hon. Gentleman really ought to study his history a little harder, because Kier Hardie, even when elected in 1895—not as a Welsh MP, but in West Ham—spoke in this House about devolution, and when elected to Merthyr as a Labour MP in 1905 he was absolutely a campaigner for home rule and devolution for Wales. The hon. Gentleman’s history is wrong; mine is perfectly accurate.
Recent history—the past four and a half years—shows that the Labour party is still campaigning for rights for Welsh people and standing up for Welsh Labour valleys. Thus we have seen Jobs Growth Wales, the most effective youth employment programme anywhere in Britain, 1,000 jobs created only last week, and massive increases in inward investment, all positives that have come as a result of devolution and the protection of the Welsh people.
The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb)
The shadow Secretary of State mentions Jobs Growth Wales. Of course we applaud any initiative that gets people into work and helps increase opportunities for young people, particularly in Wales, but he must be aware that the independent study of Jobs Growth Wales commissioned by the Welsh Government showed that around 75% of all the young people on the programme would have found work anyway. He needs to answer this question: is that a good use of taxpayers’ money?
Owen Smith
I think that the evidence for Jobs Growth Wales is absolutely clear to us all. It has proven to be the most effective youth employment programme anywhere in Europe. It is succeeding in creating 16,000 opportunities for young people, and it is succeeding in keeping those young people in work beyond the six months. It is widely supported by the business community right across Wales. I cannot imagine for a minute that the Secretary of State should wish to undermine it, especially when it stands in such stark and promising contrast to his Government’s Work programme.
Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)
Is my hon. Friend as amazed as I am by what the Secretary of State has just said? He has effectively said, “Well, we shouldn’t do anything for young people, because most of them will probably get jobs anyway.”
Owen Smith
Around 750,000 young people in Britain are still unemployed. Although that is fewer than the 1 million who were unemployed just a couple of years into this Government’s time in office, and we welcome that fall, I suggest that 750,000 is an enormous number of people to be left languishing on the dole, but that is what we have come to expect from a Tory Government.
Stephen Crabb
In response to the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), those are not my words, but those of an independent inquiry into the matter. Of course the business community supports Jobs Growth Wales, which has made good inroads into giving opportunities to young people. However, when about 75% of young people are considered to be able to get work anyway without the need for a support programme, we should bear in mind the question of whether it is a good use of taxpayers’ money.
In comparing Jobs Growth Wales with the Work programme, the shadow Secretary of State is comparing apples and pears. The Work programme does not work with bright young graduates who are fresh out of university but with people who face the biggest hurdles in getting back into work—the 200,000 people in Wales who never worked a day in their life under Labour.
Owen Smith
I do not want to belabour the point, but the Secretary of State needs to consider carefully whether he wants to denigrate Jobs Growth Wales, which does not, by and large, work with undergraduates but with youngsters aged 16 to 24, most of whom will not be undergraduates. It has been demonstrably successful in Wales, and he should be welcoming and supporting it, not seeking to undermine it.
David Wright (Telford) (Lab)
As someone who represents a constituency in a border county on the Welsh Marches, let me say that we would like to see more support and help for young people to get them into work, and to follow some of the examples in Wales that have been getting people into work. It is important for the economies of the Welsh Marches and the border counties that Wales has a strong economy. That is why this debate is so important for us all.
Owen Smith
I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who is absolutely right. That is why Labour has said that, unlike the Tory Government, we will learn from Jobs Growth Wales and transplant it to the rest of the UK. Under the next Labour Government, we will see similar success, I am sure, as a result of the measures we will undertake.
Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)
The Secretary of State talked about the people who are not able to get into work. Will he comment on a fantastic course that is being run in Bridgend at The Zone, which is helping people who find it difficult to promote themselves and to deal with going for job interviews? It covers the body language, listening and time management skills that will help them to get into work through Jobs Growth Wales.
Owen Smith
The Secretary of State cannot comment on it yet, but perhaps he can later. I would happily come and see that project in Bridgend, which sounds excellent.
My fundamental point is that devolution has already proved to be something of a protection against the Tory Government. Workers’ rights have been stood up for on blacklisting and on the Agricultural Wages Board, and jobs and services have been protected in Wales in a way that they have not been in England.
Owen Smith
I will make a little more progress and then give way.
However, devolution does not show that, of itself, even with a Labour Government in Wales, it can fully inoculate Wales against the virus of Tory economics. Unfortunately, the “trickle-down” belief of Tory economics that wealth will be spread by favouring the people who already have the most and punishing those with the least is demonstrably leading to lower living standards in Wales. In a moment, I will enumerate some of the symptoms of that virus that we can see right across Wales.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
My hon. Friend knows that today the Welsh Government have published their latest index of multiple deprivation, which shows that Lansbury Park estate in Caerphilly is now the most deprived community in Wales. Does he share my anger at that fact? Does he agree that nothing shows more clearly the real impact of central Government policies on poor communities in the south Wales valleys?
Owen Smith
I do share my hon. Friend’s anger, and I will express it here today. I also express my anger that Government Front Benchers laugh when we hear of the scale of the poverty that is still being visited on people right across the country.
Stephen Crabb
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The shadow Secretary of State has just claimed from the Dispatch Box that I was laughing at the news that the ward in Caerphilly is now the most deprived—[Interruption.] Not at all—it is a complete untruth, and I ask him to withdraw it.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I am sure that the shadow Secretary of State has taken your comments on board.
Owen Smith
Let us look at some of the symptoms in Wales of the disease of Tory economics, starting with food banks, because they are a useful barometer of this Tory Government’s impact. The volume of food banks in Wales has grown at a faster rate than anywhere else in Britain. In the first six months of this year, 40,000 people in Wales were forced to use them. That is a tenfold increase since 2010, when just 4,000 people used them. By the end of this year, it will have been a twentyfold increase, which is an extraordinary statistic.
Mrs Siân C. James (Swansea East) (Lab)
I am sure that, while congratulating the city and county of Swansea, my hon. Friend will greet with some concern its decision to introduce food collection points across my constituency. It is a sad state of affairs when people have to be encouraged to go along to a council property to drop off food for less fortunate citizens, but they are to be applauded, and I urge everybody to support the food banks.
Owen Smith
The food banks are to be applauded, but the fact that they are required should shame us all, particularly the Government who are presiding over the explosion in their usage. It is very clear why they are required: the Trussell Trust has made it plain that the vast majority of people who use them do so because their benefits have been changed or stopped.
The emerging trend—at 22%, up from 15% last year—is for the recipients of food parcels to be in work. They are earning a living, but it is insufficient to pay for something as fundamental as food. That should surprise none of us, because we now know that, under this Tory Government, 13 million people in Britain are in poverty while in work. They are earning their poverty in this country, and that scandal and disgrace should shame us all.
Owen Smith
I am aware of that, but I am grateful to my hon. Friend for reminding the House about it. Right across Wales, wage inflation last year was just 0.6%, while price inflation was 2.2%. That real-terms fall in people’s wages comes on top of the fact that wages in Wales are already the lowest in Britain. Average weekly earnings in Wales are now just £473.40, compared with the UK average of £518. One in four workers in Wales earns below the living wage, which should shock the House in the 21st century.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that we have not only some of the lowest wages in the UK, but the lowest disposable income, the highest energy bills and the highest levels of energy debt, which are also contributory factors?
Owen Smith
Yes. All those things contribute enormously: they are all symptoms of the widespread, systemic problem in our society and economy, which this Tory Government’s current policies are unfortunately making worse. In fact, the Welsh Government have calculated that by next year, £1 billion will have been taken out of the Welsh economy directly as a result of the welfare changes made by this Tory Government. It is estimated that the average annual loss per working-age adult in Wales will be £500 by 2015-16. The bedroom tax, the most pernicious and cruel example of this Government’s welfare policies, hits Wales harder than anywhere else in the UK. The Department for Work and Pensions statistics confirm as much—more than 40,000 Welsh men and women hit by the bedroom tax, 26,000 of those, disabled.
Chris Ruane
My hon. Friend talks about averages in Wales being about £540. Is he aware that in Rhyl West—until this morning the poorest ward in Wales, but it has been overtaken by a Caerphilly ward—the actual hit for those people, the poorest in Wales, was £1,450, as opposed to the richer ward of Efenechtyd in the south of the county, where it was only £270, so the impact on those poorest people in Wales has been five times greater?
Owen Smith
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention. Yes, of course that is right. The evidence is right before our eyes: over 50% of Welsh local authorities have had to use top-up discretionary housing payments to deal with the volume of problems created by the changes to welfare in Wales, versus just 27% in England. That is more evidence that Wales is being hit harder on the watch of the Secretary of State and the Minister than anywhere else in the UK.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Alun Cairns)
Will the shadow Secretary of State explain, therefore, why only three of the 22 local authorities have applied for additional discretionary housing payment to help with hardship as a result of the spare room subsidy changes?
Owen Smith
Some 54% of local authorities in Wales have used up most of their discretionary housing spending. The figure for England is 27%. Wales is harder hit than anywhere else and we are having to spend more money. If the Minister seriously suggests that the DWP figures are wrong, and that Wales does not have a greater volume of people hit by the bedroom tax than anywhere else, he can tell us, but I am sure that he will not disagree with the DWP. I am sure that he will agree with me that 40,000-odd people in Wales are affected, 25,000 of whom are disabled.
Alun Cairns
I will happily clarify that Cardiff, Caerphilly and Conwy are the only three local authorities, of the 22 in Wales, that have asked for an uplift in discretionary housing payment to help with hardship. Why did other local authorities around Wales not do so if the situation is as bad as the hon. Gentleman suggests?
Owen Smith
Let me tell the hon. Gentleman something very simple that he could do to stop this back and forth about numbers: he could think about the impact on people in his constituency and mine, and those of all other hon. Members, and he could scrap the bedroom tax tomorrow. That is what Labour will do if we are elected. We will get rid of it in a heartbeat. Frankly, the nonsense about who has applied for which grant demeans this debate, which is a serious debate about the impact on real people.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
Does not this argument miss the fundamental point, which is that if the Government have to create a system in which there is a discretionary housing payment, which means that some local authorities will be mean at the beginning of the year and generous towards the end of the year, and that some local authorities will be meaner than others, they have completely lost the plot? That is why we have to get rid of the bedroom tax in its entirety.
Owen Smith
Introducing a tax that is reliant on people being able to move to smaller properties was, in and of itself, barmy, because there are not the properties for people to move into. That is why 60% of social housing associations in Wales are struggling to rehouse people.
Of course, it is not just the people who are hit by the cuts to welfare payments that are affected, but the wider population. Sheffield Hallam university produced a report just a few weeks ago that said that the welfare cuts will result in a £1,000 reduction in the incomes of all people across the south Wales valleys eventually, as reductions in aggregate demand, reductions in spending and further job losses—it suggested that 3,000 jobs might be lost across south Wales—result in a less dynamic and resilient economy. It is not just the people who are directly impacted by the welfare cuts who are affected, but the wider economy.
On top of the welfare cuts, ordinary workers who are not in receipt of benefits are losing £1,600 a year. That is why Labour will do something about low wages in Wales. We have made it very clear that we will set the national minimum wage at 58% of median earnings by 2020. That will mean a minimum wage of £8 in Wales and will put an extra £2.50 per week in the pockets of working people. It will mean 60 quid a week or £3,000 a year for hard-working families. [Interruption.] The Secretary of State laughs and giggles once more, as I discuss low wages.
Owen Smith
He is laughing even as he comes to the Dispatch Box. I am talking about low wages in Wales and the Secretary of State is giggling. I do not know what he wants to tell us, but he can have another go.
Stephen Crabb
There is no laughing or giggling, but we can smile because the hon. Gentleman trumpets, in his usual proud, puffed-up way, the idea that the Opposition would increase the minimum wage to £8 an hour. Under the proposals that the Government have put in place, the minimum wage would be higher than that. Why is he proposing a cut in the minimum wage?
Owen Smith
It is nonsense to suggest that we are proposing a cut in the minimum wage. We will increase the minimum wage to £8, which will bring massive benefits for hard-pressed workers in Wales.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
On the income of the poorest workers, should we not bear in mind the impact of the bedroom tax? There simply is not smaller council housing for people to move into. In the event that people move into private housing, their rent goes up and the housing benefit goes up. In other words, it is simply a tax on the poorest for the sake of it. We will take it away when we get in, which will raise their incomes.
Owen Smith
My hon. Friend is of course right. That is why it looks increasingly as though the bedroom tax will cost the Exchequer money, not save it money. It is voodoo economics of the worst kind, because it penalises the most vulnerable people in our society. It is having an even greater impact in Wales, and the Secretary of State should acknowledge that.
Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)
On the bedroom tax and the discretionary grant, the Secretary of State will know that the grant is given to local authorities, and most of it is made up of local authorities’ own money, not a direct extra grant from central Government.
Owen Smith
My right hon. Friend is entirely right. Of course, it is not only the changes to welfare that are having an impact on people in Wales. A culture of fear and insecurity is increasingly becoming the norm in the workplace, with between 50,000 and 70,000 Welsh workers now employed on zero-hours contracts. Some 200,000 Welsh workers are self-employed. I note that the Secretary of State has said in the press today that those people are effectively entrepreneurs, but the reality is that they are people who are increasingly being forced into bogus self-employed status and counted as entrepreneurs by the Office for National Statistics.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
My hon. Friend will know that there has been a rally today of UCATT, Unite and other unions—and I will take no jeering at union members by coalition Members on this issue—on behalf of construction workers. They are now working for bogus, so-called umbrella companies who sanction—take out of—their pay the employer’s national insurance contributions to annual pay, so they go home with a far smaller wage at the end of the week. That is despicable, but I remind coalition Members that it is a function of the sort of economy and the hands-off Government that we have.
Owen Smith
Yes, it is an economy of maximum insecurity for the work force and maximum security and flexibility for employers. Invariably these days the employers are umbrella companies, supply agencies or contract companies, and often people do not even know who is employing them. We do know that the number of self-employed workers in Wales has gone up by 17,000 since the Government came to power, but their incomes have crashed by more than a fifth. Similarly, in Wales there are now 71,000 part-time workers who wish they were working full time. That is up from 54,000—an increase of almost one third under this Government. Those are the hallmarks of the culture of insecurity—the culture of fear—in the workplace that is now affecting Wales and the rest of the country.
Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)
Is the hon. Gentleman suggesting that Labour would scrap all zero-hours contracts? If so, I would like to know how the NHS and education in Wales would cope without the flexibility of bank nurses and bank teachers.
Owen Smith
No, we have been clear that we will tackle all abuses and exploitation of zero-hours contracts. We will introduce rules to give new rights to employees on zero-hours contracts. We will ban employers from requiring zero-hours workers to be available on the off-chance that there might be work for them. We will stop employees being required to work exclusively for one firm if they are on a zero-hours contract. We will ensure that zero-hours workers who have their shifts cancelled at short notice are recompensed. That is what the next Labour Government will do; that is what this Government could and should be doing.
Owen Smith
I will not give way any more, because I have gone on for quite long enough. I need to wind up my remarks because other hon. Members wish to contribute to the debate—at least on this side of the House.
The reality is that workers’ rights have been eroded under this Government. It is not just wages that have crashed—employees’ rights have crashed. The Government have made it more difficult for workers to take employers to court. They have watered down health and safety legislation and they have bribed workers to sell their rights for shares. They have talked up anti-strike laws, they have halved the consultation period for redundancies in large employers, they have allowed blacklisting to flourish and they have tried to silence campaigning activities by trade unions and others. It is the antithesis of what the Government need to be doing to increase security and loyalty, to increase receipts in our work force and to increase productivity. Fear has become the norm in the workplace. The minimum wage is no longer the minimum: all too often, it is the going rate. Rights have been diminished and wages have fallen.
The next Labour Government will do things radically differently. We will right those wrongs, ban zero-hours contracts, freeze energy bills, fix the rip-off market, increase the minimum wage, and stand up for the Welsh NHS, investing in new doctors and nurses through a mansion tax. We will scrap the bedroom tax and liberate the 26,000 disabled Welsh people from the fear of it. We will cut taxes for the lowest-paid. We will increase taxes for the richest. We will rebuild Wales and Britain on the foundations of fairness, not fear. We will build an economy that works for working people once more, for the many and not the few.
Stephen Crabb
I meet regularly the Farmers Union of Wales and NFU Cymru and I am aware of what they say. I also speak to a lot of individual farmers and, again, I point out that there is a split. There are some strongly held views on both sides, so the Prime Minister's strategy of trying to settle the debate for the long term and get it out of the way is absolutely right.
Time and again over the past four and a half years, the Labour party has got the big calls about the economy wrong. Their dire predictions about increasing unemployment have not materialised. Their prediction that the Welsh private sector was too thin or weak to support the rebalancing of the economy has been proved wrong.
There is, however, one thing about which the shadow Secretary of State has been right, not wrong, and on which we absolutely agree with him. He was recorded saying to activists—at his own party conference, I think—that his leader was not quite up to the job, and that his party had lost touch with its core voters. We entirely agree with his analysis in that instance.
Owen Smith
If the Secretary of State is going to repeat what is frankly nonsense—if he is going to come out with unsourced gibberish like that—he really needs to come up with some corroboration. Otherwise, he can withdraw what he said right now.
Stephen Crabb
Well, I do not know. I read the press, and I see what the press report.
Owen Smith
On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Secretary of State has just uttered an untruth in this Chamber. I do not know where he has come up with that untruth, but I ask him to rescind it immediately, and apologise.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)
Order. The Secretary of State will not have deliberately misled the House. If it has been pointed out that he is incorrect, I am sure that he is capable of making the correct entry in the record now.
Owen Smith
I am grateful, because we have to correct these facts. He knows that the volume of people coming from England to Wales has increased over the past few years, whereas the volume of people going from Wales to England has decreased. He also knows that on cancer, for example, the health board he mentions, Aneurin Bevan, performs better than the one over the border, so quite why people would cross the border for worse care, I do not know.
David T. C. Davies
The hon. Gentleman will know that most people on the English side of the border who have been treated in Wales have no choice about that. They are registered with GPs connected with the Aneurin Bevan health board, so they have absolutely no choice in the matter. Many of them have formed action groups of English patients who are treated in Wales and do not want to be because they know they will get a better standard of health care in England. One of those is called Action For Our Health; if the hon. Gentleman has a smartphone, he can look it up. He ought to know about these facts. He talks about cancer. The figures for urgent cases are pretty similar, within a percentage point of each other, but he did not mention diagnostic times, which are significantly worse in Wales than in England, or the cancer drugs fund. It is a pity that he did not want to talk about the NHS in his 40-minute speech.
The hon. Gentleman did not want to talk about education, either. One of the few advantages of the Welsh Assembly is that it has allowed us to make simple comparisons. We can now see the difference between what a Conservative-led coalition Government can offer and what can be delivered by a Labour Government. We know that Wales now has the worst educational rankings in the whole of the United Kingdom after 16 years of Labour domination.
The Labour Government have a terrible record on the economy—that is pretty well known—but they also have a shameful record on public services. I am looking forward to the next general election, so that we can remind people that tax-and-spend Labour cannot be trusted with the economy and cannot be trusted with public services, either. As somebody who used to drive a van—I am glad to say that it was a blue one as well—we will never, ever sneer at hard-working people who want to go out and better themselves, work hard, and pay taxes. We are the true party of working people. At that election, I look forward to fighting alongside the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Wales to make sure that next time round we have a truly Conservative Government who can deliver even better policies for the people of Wales.