Nusrat Ghani
Main Page: Nusrat Ghani (Conservative - Sussex Weald) Heritage Public Houses Bill
Nusrat Ghani Excerpts(4 weeks, 2 days ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Watch Debate
Adam Jogee
It is a case of a first time for everything: I do not think I can be accused of not making the case for Newcastle-under-Lyme as often as I can, Madam Deputy Speaker.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. Just to remind Mr Jopp: there are many more colleagues in the Chamber than Mr Adam Jogee.
Lincoln Jopp
Madam Deputy Speaker, you may or may not be aware that there is a rumour at large in Parliament and alive in the Tea Room that hon. Members only have to mention the name of a pub in their constituency, then send to that pub the hard copy of Hansard where the name is mentioned, and the next time they go in there, they get a free pint! That is, of course, completely untrue—a point I have had to make to the landlords of the Happy Landing in Stanwell, the King’s Fairway in Ashford, the White Horse in Sunbury and the Wheatsheaf & Pigeon on the Staines-Laleham road, a pub where I will be going tomorrow to lodge my “Save Kempton Park” banner for a week as it tours my Spelthorne constituency.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood) on bringing this debate. The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) is not in her place anymore, but there was a genuine exchange of ideas there on whether the protections envisaged in this private Member’s Bill are required. The story of the Crooked House is a salutary one. I have in my constituency a number of very historic pubs, including the Admiral Hawke, an 18th century pub named after the former First Sea Lord and Member of Parliament for Portsmouth, and the Bells in Staines. Imagine if they were to burn down under suspicious circumstances—they are not listed and nor are they listed as assets of community value. They would be further protected under this private Member’s Bill, so I think it has merit.
The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch said that her sort of “so what?” was: “Well, we should all therefore be encouraging our communities to get together if they do value their pubs and to have them registered as assets of community value.”
That clearly is not happening as much as the legislation envisaged, hence this private Member’s Bill.
I want to make one observation: normally, when we call pubs “Assets of Community Value”, we do so to try to protect them when they are in trouble. Let us take away the capital letters and just say that those pubs are assets of community value, encouraging all our people to invest in them by going to them. Tragically, the British Beer and Pub Association reports that this year we are on track to lose a pub a day in Britain. Some 300 have closed in the first nine months of this year. We have not had much of a sense of the challenges that they face. I will not go too political on this, but the landlords I speak to are very aware of the additional challenges: business rates, the minimum wage and employers’ national insurance. The onus is on all of us. It is tragic that, when a pub closes, everyone is up in arms, but when I ask people how often they had been there, they might say, “Oh, I went there last year.”
Pubs really need our help. If the Bill were to come to a vote, I would support it but I am delighted that we have had an opportunity raise some of the issues of the British pub industry, its challenges and the protections that it needs.
Adam Jogee
It is. On a point of order, the hon. Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp)—in the pink shirt with a constituency in Surrey—intervened on my speech earlier, which led me to mention his constituency in my remarks. The hon. Member must correct the record. He said that I mentioned his constituency more than my own, which is of course nonsense and untrue. I have just checked Hansard and my notes: I made 20 references to Newcastle-under-Lyme, 14 specific references to areas in Staffordshire, six references to individual areas in Newcastle-under-Lyme, and six references to the hon. Member’s constituency. How can the hon. Member correct the record and ensure that an apology is given to me and my constituents?
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Mr Jogee, I am not sure that that is a good use of a point of order, but you have indeed corrected the record yourself. We will not continue this in the overall debate, so there is no need for a point of order from Mr Jopp.
Anna Dixon
My hon. Friend is celebrating his post-war new town. Saltaire in Shipley is one of the original model towns, built by the great factory owner Sir Titus Salt, who was also a philanthropist. He built many things in that village for the community—a church, a school, a library, high-quality homes and some almshouses—but one thing he did not put in the village was a pub. He was a religious man, and he decided that it was not a good thing for his workers to have access to a pub. As a consequence, the historic Victoria pub—now grade II listed—was built on the edge of Saltaire in 1875, but it had to be on the outskirts. Sadly, it is now a pubco and is seeking a tenant for its ongoing use, which shows some of the challenges for our pubs. I would—
Kevin Bonavia
My hon. Friend makes a really important point: we need places to come together, whether we are drinking alcohol or not. In the old town in Stevenage, we have plenty of pubs. We also have lots of buildings that were pubs but are still meeting places. Conversely, we have buildings that were used for other purposes but are now pubs. For example, we have a snooker club that is now partly a microbrewery with a taproom. That has benefited from the previous Labour Government’s encouragement of microbreweries, and it has a nod to its heritage.
Dr Prinsley
I will come to that in a moment. I certainly do have a favourite beer. [Interruption.] If you’ll allow me one moment—
Dr Prinsley
I have something written on my phone, which has been sent to me, that I would like to read.
Alex Ballinger
What a magnificent story! I just want to reflect on the community value that pubs and breweries can add, on top of their location and heritage. In my constituency, the Hunting Tree pub has recently been taken over by new owners, who are doing a fantastic job at bringing in families through activities in the garden, while raising money for Guide Dogs. Could my hon. Friend talk about other examples in his constituency of where the community has benefited not just by going to the pub, but through the activities of pubs and breweries?
Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. Before you get to your feet, Dr Prinsley, I remind you that you are speaking through the Chair. I must not be staring at your back.
Dr Prinsley
I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker.
It is well known that Charles Dickens stayed at the Angel hotel in 1835, and it later featured in “The Pickwick Papers”. He returned regularly to give readings next door. Two centuries on, guests can still stay in the very same room associated with his visits. Of course, most hoteliers would simply settle for a good online review.
The Masons Arms occupies a building dating back to the early 16th century. In Stowmarket, the Royal William, a traditional backstreet pub that was granted its licence only in the 1960s, serves real ale by gravity. There are plenty of things I would like to see modernised, but certainly not that.
I come to my favourite pub, the Nutshell. [Hon. Members: “Aha!”] It is listed in the “Guinness Book of Records” as the smallest pub in the country, at just 15 feet long by 7 feet wide, complete with a mummified cat. In 1984, an extraordinary 102 people and a dog called Blob reportedly squeezed inside. Any of us who struggle to find a seat at Prime Minister’s questions should count their blessings.
Stowmarket once had a pub called the Hop Pole Tavern, which had a railway siding running all the way through it. I support travelling to the pub by train, but that was taking integrated transport rather too literally.
I have already read out one of the ditties about Bury St Edmunds’ pubs, so I shall not tell the House another one, although there are several.
Alex Ballinger
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point about the health benefit of the cigarette ban in pubs. I, too, welcome the Tobacco and Vapes Act and the measure to increase the age limit periodically so that people who are young today cannot smoke. Do you think that, because there has been such a reduction in number of people who are smoking, especially at a younger age, in due course it may become a benefit for pubs? The drag of no longer being allowed to smoke inside would no longer be a problem because people are not smoking.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. Before Dr Prinsley gets to his feet, I remind Members that there should be no “you” or “yours”, because they are speaking through the Chair.
Dr Prinsley
I simply think that the smoking ban is an utterly brilliant thing to do. I cannot predict what will happen to pubs as a result of it, but it has not been good for country pubs.
Before I conclude, I want to make one remark about the issue of supermarkets and the cost of beer in convenience stores. In the convenience store at the bottom of my street, it is less expensive to buy a slab of lager than to buy a slab of Coca-Cola. Something has gone seriously wrong with the pricing arrangements for beer. I see that Greene King has now discontinued its off-licence production and will now only sell beer in pubs. I would like very much to see something done within our tax system to make it much less attractive to buy alcohol in convenience stores and supermarkets.