Parental Bereavement (Leave and Pay) Bill

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Friday 11th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Robert Courts]

My hon. Friend rightly draws my attention to amendment 17, and the fact that I have not referred to it directly is perhaps a drawback of dealing with the amendments in groups in the way that I have done. The amendment says:

“Employers must accept notice given in writing, face to face, by telephone or through a third party on behalf of the bereaved parent.”

Therefore, it makes clear that a low level of notification is required. I think that is along the right lines, and I ask the Minister to consider it and respond.

Similarly, in providing evidence, people should not be required to find and supply to an employer a death certificate or a coroner’s report, because that is the very last thing they would want to deal with at such a time. I appreciate that some people might use legislation to accrue a benefit to which they were not entitled, but my mind boggles somewhat at that happening in such circumstances, and legislation already exists to deal with anyone who takes such an extreme course of action. My overriding concern is to ensure that bereaved parents and carers are looked after and helped. That must be what we are seeking to do here, rather than setting up bureaucratic hurdles for them at a time when they really do not require them.

I am grateful to the House for listening to me. Suffice it to say that I support the Bill, which, although overdue, is very welcome. I wish it a speedy passage, and I congratulate once again those who have taken the standard forward and taken the Bill through the House. I commend all those who have spoken with such total bravery today. It is not easy for them to stand up in public and explain things that are so personal, but the Bill shows the enormous impact that they can have when they do so. I salute all hon. Members who have done that today and on other occasions.

[Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure, as always, to follow my always eloquent hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Robert Courts). I rise to speak briefly to amendments 2, 3, 5, 6, and 22 to 24. I should like to thank the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) and my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) for being so diligent in tabling so many amendments that are clearly intended to improve the Bill. As others have said, however, we need to be careful not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good, and it is the clear consensus of the whole House, and indeed the country, that we have to get the Bill passed.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) for bringing forward the Bill in such a considered manner, and for working so closely across the House and with the Government to ensure that we really make this happen. Like others, I also want to pay a sincere tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Eddisbury (Antoinette Sandbach) and for Colchester (Will Quince), who have championed this cause, and related causes, for so long and with such eloquence and passion. Their truly heartfelt speeches have shown this House at its best, today and on many occasions over the past few years.

I have a few constituents—I am glad to say that the number is relatively small—who have had direct experience of child bereavement. However, a large number of my constituents have contacted me to say that they support the Bill. Although a relatively small number of people have experienced the pain of losing their child, everyone can sympathise with the pain and anguish that such an occurrence brings. The loss of a child is an unbearable experience—perhaps the worst form of bereavement that a person can suffer—and we must ensure that parents are supported throughout what must be one of the hardest periods in their lives.

I want to talk about the numbers, because they are important not only for the amendments but for the overall Bill. Sadly, thousands of parents each year suffer the devastation of losing a child. The Office for National Statistics data shows that 4,300 children under the age of 18 died in Great Britain in 2016, affecting 8,000 employed parents. However, using that data and taking into consideration the assumption that some separated parents may have new partners with direct parental responsibility, the Bill’s impact assessment estimates that as many as 11,500 people will have been directly affected in 2016. So we are talking about more than 100,000 parents or carers being impacted over the course of a decade. That is not an insignificant number, and we need to consider that carefully.

There are three groups or areas that I wish to speak to today. The first, covered in particular by amendment 2, deals with extending the Bill to cover not only parents but grandparents and others with caring responsibilities. This is an important aspect, as my hon. Friends the Members for Croydon South (Chris Philp) and for Chippenham (Michelle Donelan) have mentioned. We need to think carefully not only about parents but about all those who have parenting responsibilities in the modern age. The situation is not the same as it was 30 or 40 years ago. We need to think particularly about grandparents, as my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Michael Tomlinson) has said. Grandparents are a group of people whom I champion, as I believe that they are underserved by legislation in this country today. It is important that we show them proper recognition in law.

The second grouping of amendments relates to the period in which the leave can be taken. This is addressed in amendments 3, 5, 22 and 23. The Bill allows for a minimum of two weeks’ bereavement leave for eligible employees, but how those two weeks may be taken—all in one go, for example, or perhaps in various non-consecutive blocks—has been left undecided. I have great sympathy for the sentiment behind amendment 22, which calls for flexibility on when entitled leave can be taken. Grief affects each of us differently, and while it may suit some bereaved parents to take two weeks off in one go, that will not be true for everyone. After all, the Bill intends to provide additional support to parents mourning a loss, and to be truly beneficial there should be some flexibility in the entitlement so that parents can use it to best suit their individual needs.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Linden]

From evidence given to us by CLIC Sargent, we know that the NHS provides cancer treatment for young people up to the age of 25, so there is a bit of inconsistency in Government policy, and hon. Members should be mindful of that.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman makes a valid point. We need to factor in other considerations, which is why I said “if” we need to include a cut-off point. One argument in favour of restricting the age in the definition of a child is that the financial burden on the Exchequer may be considerably greater if we extended the definition beyond the age of 18. My hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South asked about siblings, and there is some logic to being careful about how far we extend the provisions. However, the Government will spend over £800 billion this year, and the estimated cost to the Exchequer of this legislation is around £3 million. We must be careful about saying, “That’s a drop in the ocean compared with total Government expenditure,” but it is true in this particular case.

If we do extend the definition to beyond 18, how much more would it cost? Five times more has been mentioned but, again, that means £15 million. Spending £15 million out of some £800 billion of Government expenditure to do something compassionate that is so widely supported is worthy of further consideration, so I ask the Minister to examine that carefully. I understand that the matter is subject to further consultation, so I encourage people to contribute to that debate.

As I said at the beginning, this is one of those topics that shows the House at its best. I will not delay proceedings further by repeating the comments made by others, but I will encourage those who have tabled amendments not to push them to a vote, as I think they have indicated, if that might jeopardise the overall vote.

I completely support the Bill. I have never had to go through, and hope never to have to go through, the anguish and pain of losing a child, as far too many of my colleagues and constituents have. It is right that we pass this law today to show that we stand with them, and with anybody who suffers this huge pain in the future, and to show that the Government are on their side.

[James Cartlidge]

It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire (Nigel Huddleston), who made an excellent speech. I join him and others in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) on introducing the Bill.

While this has been a cross-party effort—I congratulate everyone who has contributed—I am particularly proud to be part of a cohort of heart-on-sleeve-wearing compassionate Conservatives who have done their constituents and their country proud by delivering change in an area that really matters to people. The cost of the Bill is tiny, as we have heard, but the cost to people who experience bereavement is immeasurable. I hope that I never experience such bereavement. Indeed, I regard myself as incredibly fortunate to have had four healthy children.

I rise to speak to amendments 22 and 8, and briefly to amendments 21, 24 and 25 on the cut-off point. On amendment 22, the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran (Patricia Gibson) and my hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Kevin Foster) spoke extremely well about the way in which the period of leave will be taken and the need for flexibility.

I have four children, and I was a self-employed company owner. When I had the first two, the company was basically just me, so I did not really take leave. When I had Nos. 3 and 4, I was fortunate that the company had a few more staff, so I was able to take proper leave— Nos. 3 and 4 came at the same time, meaning there was somewhat more need for my support. That period soon ran into the selection process for my constituency and a lot of time pressure, so I was pleased to be in that position, but of course many people are not.

The consultation, entirely reasonably and rationally, says that in considering the structure of the time block for this leave, we will consider the existing arrangements for maternity and paternity leave. Whenever we legislate, it is entirely rational that we look at existing measures so that we do not reinvent the wheel. Page 13 of the consultation says:

“The Bill has mirrored existing provisions for family related leave and pay rights where possible and, in particular, Paternity Leave and Pay. But where the detail is left to be set in regulations, the regulations could be different to those for existing rights.”

This is the key point:

“Paternity Leave and Pay cannot be taken in separate blocks of a week: a father or partner is merely able to choose whether to take just one or both of the weeks available.”

I have been particularly moved by the arguments made today that underline why bereavement leave is very different from paternity leave, and why the circumstances could require extra flexibility.

The hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran gave good examples of why we might want flexibility. She talked about court hearings—I think there is a different phrase for inquiries in Scotland—and the fact that more flexibility might be needed in such circumstances. It is important that what we do in this place mirrors what happens in the real world.

In contrast, when I think back to being a new dad, it seems rational that paternity leave is taken in a single block, ideally when the child is born, when help is most needed. With my first child—my daughter—I well remember the intensity of those early days, when I prayed every hour that the baby would at some point sleep through the night. There is an early period of intensity that a parent sincerely hopes will reduce, which is why there is sense in taking the block together. That is a rational position. We have heard powerful examples from hon. Members about the need for flexibility on bereavement leave, however, so I hope that the Minister will respond to them.