Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Laura Trott]

As I would expect from a member of the Work and Pensions Committee and the head of the all-party parliamentary group on pensions, my hon. Friend makes an interesting point. In my time as pensions Minister I have tried to reduce the gap between DB and defined contribution pensions. I would be interested to talk to him about any further suggestions.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Clear, accessible pension schemes information was a priority for former Chancellor George Osborne in 2016, but the pensions dashboard programme has consistently missed its deadlines to go live. This month the Minister announced a further delay, with a new connection deadline of October 2026. Could she please explain this consistent failure to meet delivery dates?

[Laura Trott]

We are absolutely committed to the pensions dashboard programme. October 2026 is the final deadline for connection, not the point that it is necessarily available to the public. The dashboard availability point could come earlier than that, and I hope that it will.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

1. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the criteria for cold weather payments.

[Mr Speaker]

Welcome, Secretary of State.

[The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mel Stride)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I also associate myself with your remarks regarding Paul Pelosi and the Speaker in the United States. Our thoughts are with them both.

It is a huge honour to stand here as the new Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. In so doing, I pay tribute to all those who have preceded me, in particular my right hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), who was an outstanding Secretary of State and also an outstanding Minister of State for disabled people.

The cold weather payment’s design ensures that support reaches those most vulnerable. The energy price guarantee is supporting millions of households with energy costs from now until April 2023. This is on top of the cost of living support worth more than £37 billion for around 8 million households on means-tested benefits.

[Nick Smith]

Mr Speaker, may I associate myself with your remarks about the Pelosi family?

I congratulate the right hon. Member on his appointment. The £25 cold weather payment rate has not been updated since 2008. In today’s money, it should be worth £37. Parts of Blaenau Gwent are more than 1,000 feet above sea level, and the constituency itself is one of the most deprived in the UK. Will the Secretary of State look again at the criteria for this scheme? Surely areas with bad weather, higher energy costs and lower incomes should get a fairer deal.

[Mel Stride]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s question, because these are very important payments. They are automatic, as he will know. Typically, they are received within 14 days and they are targeted at those who are most vulnerable. His point about the particular local conditions and the elevation of parts of his constituency are well made and I would be very happy to have further discussions with him about that. I should point out though that I believe there are 72 different weather stations to serve as reference points for different temperatures, so it may be that there is one very close to the area he describes.

Pensions Dashboards (Prohibition of Indemnification) Bill

Nick Smith Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 26th October 2022 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

I call Nick Smith.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Mr Sharma, I am not the Labour Front Bencher on this Bill.

[The Chair]

I know, but do you want to contribute at this point?

[Nick Smith]

I will ask some questions later of the Conservative Minister, if that is okay.

[The Chair]

Yes. I call Maggie Throup.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Alex Burghart)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I hope Committee members will forgive me if I keep my remarks relatively short; as they will be able to hear, I am losing my voice. This is my first speech as Minister for Pensions and Growth, and it may be my last. If I survive the day in post, I will have two further speeches to give, and I would like to have the voice to give them.

Luckily, my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle has said just about everything that there is to say about this excellent and uncontentious Bill, which strengthens the great work that my venerable predecessor, the hon. Member for Hexham, did in his five years in office. It is fair to say that under him and his predecessors, a veritable quiet revolution in pensions has been taking place, to the benefit of tens of millions of people.

The revolution began with auto-enrolment, which, I am pleased to say, celebrates its 10th birthday today. It is difficult to overstate the success of auto-enrolment: it is one of the greatest examples of nudge theory ever seen in public policy. New figures released today show that, in the 10 years that auto-enrolment has been in place, the number of employees participating in workplace pensions has increased from 10.7 million to 20 million, which is an increase of 86%—a truly remarkable achievement. Last year alone, British people saved nearly £115 billion into workplace pensions and pension pots—a 40% increase on where we were before auto-enrolment.

The pensions dashboard is the next step in that revolution. If the first job was to help people to save, the second is to help them to understand what they are saving. We believe that that will create a further nudge of its own, as people understand what they have accumulated in their pots throughout their working life, and what they can expect to have in their retirement. This Government are helping more people to save more so that they can do more in their retirement years. I am very proud to support the latest chapter in that work today.

[Nick Smith]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Cheadle on introducing this important Bill, and I join the Minister in recognising the fantastic success of auto-enrolment, which has changed saving across our country. But I hope the Minister can help me on two points.

First, the hon. Member for Hexham has—for sure—done all the heavy lifting on introducing the pensions dashboard, but when does the Minister anticipate its proper introduction to the marketplace to support pensioners across the country? It is a great idea, but it has been in development for a long time. Secondly, I note that there is no impact assessment or consultation on the introduction of the Bill. I am sure that there are fair reasons for that, but have the FCA and the other regulators involved had any input on the development of the Bill?

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. We expect that, during the course of next year, all the requisite data will be pulled together from pension funds and assembled on the dashboard, and that the public will have access to it for the first time in the middle of 2024. As he says, it is major work, and it is important that we get it right. Through the passage of legislation such as this Bill, we will be able to ensure that our pensions system and dashboard are fit for the future. This is a major change, involving a great deal of work by a huge number of outfits, and it will make a major difference to the way people see and participate in the world of pensions.

The hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent had a further question about the FCA. Based on information gathered by sample providers, the regulatory impact assessment considers the costs of all relevant pension schemes and providers in scope of dashboards, connecting to the dashboard digital architecture and supplying pensions information. Although FCA-regulated personal and stakeholder schemes fall outside the scope of Department for Work and Pensions regulation, the Pension Schemes Act 2021 requires the FCA to make corresponding rules covering the requirements of these schemes in relation to pensions dashboards. Therefore, the impact assessment takes into account the costs for both these providers and the occupation scheme trustees.

I turn to the detail of the Bill. Clause 1, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle said, will prohibit trustees and managers of occupational personal pension schemes from being reimbursed out of scheme assets in respect of penalties imposed on them for non-compliance with the pension dashboard regulations. That is obviously an important safeguard for pensions savers. It is achieved by amending section 256 of the Pensions Act 2004, under which if a trustee or manager were to be reimbursed or knew or had reasonable grounds to believe they had been so reimbursed, they would be guilty of a criminal offence, unless they had taken all reasonable steps to ensure they were not so reimbursed. We are talking about a serious crime. The provisions will allow for a maximum sentence of up to two years in prison or a fine or both.

Additionally, were any amount to be paid out of a pension scheme’s assets in such a way, the pensions regulator would have the power to issue civil penalties to any trustee or manager who failed to take all reasonable steps to secure compliance. Section 256 of the 2004 Act already prohibits reimbursement of penalties issued under a number of other pieces of pensions legislation, so the proposed amendment to the 2004 Act is a logical change that the Government welcome.

Clause 1 also makes corresponding changes to article 233 of the Pensions (Northern Ireland) Order 2005. As hon. Members know, all aspects of pensions policy are transferred to the Northern Ireland Assembly; however, there is a convention that the pensions legislation made in Northern Ireland stays in lockstep with that of England, Wales and Scotland, to ensure parity across the whole United Kingdom. The usual procedure in the instance of Parliament making provision of a transferred policy area would be to obtain a legislative consent motion from the Northern Ireland Assembly.

However, as hon. Members will be aware, the Assembly has thus far failed to elect a Speaker, so it is not in a position to grant this consent. I am pleased to say that Deirdre Hargey MLA, Minister for Communities in Northern Ireland, has written to the Department for Work and Pensions and confirmed that she would, in principle, be content to seek agreement for the provisions in the Bill to extend to Northern Ireland. That was, however, conditional on the agreement of a functioning Executive, but there will be further opportunity for this issue to be considered by the Assembly if the current impasse in Northern Ireland is resolved before the Bill has completed its journey through Parliament.

Clause 2, as my hon. Friend the Member for Cheadle stated earlier, sets out the standard information needed for all Bills and includes detail of how provisions will come into force and their territorial extent. The Government are committed to protecting pensions savers and agree that the safeguards in the Bill provide a welcome deterrent against rogue trustees or managers exploiting pension assets for which they are responsible. We commend the Bill to the Committee.

Pension Schemes Bill [Lords]

Nick Smith Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons
Wednesday 7th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Pensions are often the biggest pot of money that anyone will have. They hold the promise of future financial security and are hugely important to millions, but they are also complex and more needs to be done to support people in understanding this crucial topic. Increasing choice through pension freedoms has had a big downside, in particular for those moving out of defined-benefit pension schemes.

In 2017, the British Steel pension scheme was being reconfigured. Steelworkers were being circled by pension sharks to encourage pension transfers. One steelworker family from Blaenau Gwent was approached by a rogue financial adviser while they were away at their caravan on a family holiday, and he sweet-talked them into a bad deal. Such rogue advisers are often propped up by completely unregulated introducers, who are still not being properly investigated by the Financial Ombudsman.

Our Parliament’s Work and Pensions Committee, in its report on this long and sorry tale, concluded that steelworkers were “shamelessly bamboozled” and that the industry’s response has often been “too little, too late”. It is a scandal that continues to have a devastating impact on steelworker families in my constituency and on thousands more across the country. The case study shows a slowness to respond by regulators. Predatory behaviour is all too common, and more action is needed to tackle it. Rates of genuine criminal enforcement against rogue advisers is low, and advice to steelworkers remains confusing, so it is vital that the Bill brings forward the protections that should have been in place for steelworkers three years ago.

I welcome the Bill’s commitment to strengthening the powers of the Pensions Regulator when it comes to enforcement and penalties; that is overdue. However, I think the Bill still leaves consumers vulnerable to being ripped off through a new market that could be created by the dashboards that have been mentioned. If the Government reject Labour’s amendments in the other place, I urge them to provide some answers to the following key questions.

Has the Minister had conversations with the FCA and other agencies about putting in place proper measures for the regulation of any new dashboard market? The FCA, in particular, seems more concerned about what happens in the City of London than what happens in the kitchens of consumers across our country. What accountability measures will be put in place to ensure that regulators protect and prioritise consumers first? People who have issues with their pensions too often face an alphabet soup of different agencies and regulators. What steps will be taken to ensure that regulators’ responsibilities are clearer for the consumer?

The Government say that this Bill will ensure that pension schemes are fit for the future. To make sure that that is the case, they must also reflect on the mistakes that have been made in the past. Protecting consumers must always be our top priority. The British Steel pension scandal may have been unique to the south Wales valleys and other steel towns across our country, but the issues that it represents can equally be found in our country’s suburbs and cities. I hope that the Government will learn the lessons of the recent past and ensure that consumers and pensioners are protected for the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

This is an important Bill for millions of everyday people: those who have already retired and those who are saving for retirement. The Bill makes pensions safer, better and greener. I thank colleagues from across the House for their support of the Bill. I am nervous when there is consensus in praise of a Bill. It is a bit like when the chairman of a football club indicates that they have confidence in the manager, and we all know how that goes in the normal course of events.

First, I would like to address some of the issues that are not in the Bill. State pensions are not a part of the Bill. The scope of the Bill makes provision for occupational pension schemes only. The points on the state pension are duly noted, but they are not within the scope of the Bill. On automatic enrolment, it is entirely true that the automatic enrolment review sets out our ambition to remove, in the mid-2020s, the lower earnings limit and the lower age threshold. That will happen, but in due course. On superfunds, I welcome the support in broad terms—I accept it is in broad terms—from the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds), and the SNP spokesman, the hon. Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray). I accept that this is an ongoing process. There is an interim regime, which has been brought forward by the pension regulator. It is something we hope to take forward, but I accept that the Government do need to address it in due course. On pensions taxation, many points have been raised. I am sure the Chancellor is listening avidly and will address the matter in due course.

The importance of the Bill has been shown by the many different and thoughtful contributions by hon. Members. The House welcomed the fact that certain Members have been willing to identify themselves as pension geeks, not least the shadow Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts). I thank all colleagues from the 2019 intake who have contributed so brilliantly, including my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Gareth Davies), who explicitly made the case for green gilts. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Mr Holden), who is my new neighbour. All I can say about him as a neighbour is that he is an awful lot better than the previous occupant of his seat, and I welcome him to it.

This Bill matters, and, as was put best by the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith), it matters most to the mums and dads in Tredegar. My hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Shaun Bailey) said that we need to look at the impact of this legislation, whether it is on the people of Tredegar or Tipton. I will be resolute in ensuring—to the best of our abilities within the confines of the Bill—that scams are stopped. It is crucial that we drive forward real change through clause 125 and the regulations that follow. As I said, I have written to the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), and given detailed evidence to the Committee. I am quite sure that we can continue the dialogue to flesh out what that will mean in the regulatory process. I am keen that the Bill is utilised to the best of our ability and that it sets out a road map to ensure that people are not scammed through their pensions. We will stop those callous crooks and ensure that transfers are carried out appropriately.

[Nick Smith]

It is great to hear the Minister speak up for the good people of Tredegar, my home town. I accept that dashboards and transparency should help in understanding schemes’ performance, fees and important matters that affect pensioners across the country, but, as the Secretary of State said in her introduction, we have 40 million-plus pensioners and there are 40,000 different schemes. Will the Pensions Minister please tell us more about how he is going to ensure that dashboards are sufficiently regulated so that there are no future problems with this initiative?

[Guy Opperman]

I will come to dashboards in more detail. I am happy to discuss this with the hon. Gentleman individually. The long and short of it is that we are keen that there is a detailed authorisation regime and that there are suitable restraints in place to ensure that the system is not open to abuse. This is different from the type of dashboard envisaged by some, which is a repository of all data. We are definitely not going down that route. With the data team, we are designing the dashboard to ensure that it is data accessed by the individual, not a pot that all parties can take data from. It is a detailed conversation and one that I would be delighted to take up with the hon. Gentleman, but I assure him that our objective is to ensure that there are no problems of the kind he raised.

Let me turn to green technology and climate change. I look forward to my visit to mid-Wales and to working with the Welsh Government. I agree with the point made that if one wants to change the world, investing in a pension is unquestionably the right way forward. I endorse the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West and my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford, and I am certain that the Treasury is listening to the idea of green gilts as an alternative vehicle for pension funds to invest in on an ongoing basis.

There is no doubt that, by including TCFDs in the Bill, we are continuing a narrative: this Government are driving forward work against climate change more than any other Government in the world. We are the first Government in the G7 to legislate for net zero. We are leading the way on environmental, social and corporate governance throughout the European Union, as is acknowledged by all our partners in the EU. We are the first Government to legislate to bring TCFDs into law in this country. Without a shadow of a doubt, this builds on the work that we have done, and on the promises and assurances made by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in his speech to the Conservative party conference yesterday.

I turn to CDCs, for which there is welcome support across the House. Royal Mail, and all the postmen and women who support all our constituencies up and down the country, are keen to see this measure. I have worked extensively with the Communication Workers Union, Royal Mail and the various organisations that have supported this policy. I do not want to be too Blairite in a spirit of cross-party unity, but there is no doubt that CDCs are the third way in pensions, and a way forward that provides an alternative to the current regime.

With the dashboards, we are trying to bring pensions into the 21st century. We are building on the work that has been done in other markets, whether energy, banking or savings, all of which have similar things with open banking, savings apps and the ability to change an energy provider. I can assure the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak that the state pension will be part of the dashboard. On the formulation of the dashboard and what it looks like, many people want to talk about the end product. I merely want to get the product up and running, but the end product will, quite clearly, have something about costs and charges, which addresses the point that the hon. Gentleman raised, as did my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire (Harriett Baldwin). I can assure her that charges are under review on an ongoing basis. The dashboard will also, we hope, do much to provide simpler statements, simplifying something that has been very technical for very long time.

We heard about the issue of small pots and the difficulties in understanding those on an ongoing basis. It may have escaped the House’s attention, but the Department has an ongoing small pots review that is working cross-industry to try to assess exactly what the particular problems are. That will include, I assure the House, a consideration of “pot follows member”. Clearly, all that would require future regulation, but we are definitely looking at it as a Department.

We believe very strongly in the importance of a Government-backed, impartial dashboard, and we have committed to having the MaPS dashboard available from the start. We strongly believe, though, that multiple dashboards will help a consumer base with differing priorities. In launching a product, do we expect the customer to find it, or do we launch the product where the customer is? There are different customers who have different expectations and needs, and some already have a relationship with a provider. A variety of dashboards can help to evolve the project.

Kickstart Scheme

Nick Smith Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dr Coffey]

It is widely recognised that getting is job is easier once someone has had work experience and is in a job already. This creation of thousands of additional jobs through this scheme will, in itself, help to stimulate young people’s chances of getting future long-term employment. This is only one of the offers being made to the young people in our country today—there will be different routes that people might take—but we are particularly focusing here on kickstart, where we are trying to avoid the long-term scarring that could happen if people do not get any work at all.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Cyber College Cymru in Blaenau Gwent gives opportunities for young people in the digital security sector, where there is strong employer demand. That industry will be vital to our future economy. Boosting jobs for young people is the right thing to do, but this needs to deliver long-term job security. Will the Minister clarify how many jobs will be created by the scheme and over what period?

[Dr Coffey]

We have currently set aside £2 billion to support this scheme, so well over 200,000 jobs could be created, but, as I have said, the number is unlimited. On different sectors, government itself is not going to create lots of jobs, although I am sure there may well be opportunities in aspects of the civil service and similar. This is about working with different sectors. We know there are growth sectors where we need more people to go into them. The hon. Gentleman recognises that there are shortages of certain skills, and indeed he refers to his local college. There will be opportunities for local employers who are needing those skills to take this scheme as an opportunity to bring a young person on, as well as help with training.

Work and Pensions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2020 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from Questions to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on 29 June 2020.

[Nick Smith]

Informed commentators say that more than 100,000 women will be impacted by this error. Many will be old women and more likely to be living in poverty. To put this right, will the Minister agree to an investigation into this issue? Will he look again at the rules on backdating to ensure that those women are treated fairly in the future?

[Guy Opperman]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s comments, and we invite anyone who thinks that they have failed to claim a state pension increase that they are eligible for to contact the Department through the Pension Service helpline. Alternatively, Pension Wise can assist.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Justin Tomlinson]

My hon. Friend is a very diligent representative of his constituents, as I saw with the casework he raised. Our forthcoming Green Paper is key, as is our national strategy for disabled people, where we will explore other ways to offer greater support, such as advocacy, signposting and removing barriers across Government and in wider society.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

What recent estimate she has made of the number of women who have been underpaid their state pension uplift as a result of an administrative error.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman) [V]]

We are aware of a number of cases where individuals have been underpaid category BL basic state pension. The Department has already taken action to correct our records, and we reimbursed those affected as soon as any errors were identified.

[Nick Smith]

Informed commentators say that more than 100,000 women will be impacted by this error. Many will be older women and more likely to be living in poverty. To put this right, will the Minister agree to an investigation into this issue? Will he look again at the rules on backdating to ensure that those women are treated fairly in the future?

[Guy Opperman]

I note the hon. Gentleman’s comments, and we invite anyone who thinks that they have failed to claim a state pension increase that they are eligible for to contact the Department through the Pension Service helpline. Alternatively, Pension Wise can assist.[Official Report, 8 July 2020, Vol. 678, c. 4MC.]

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Smith Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[Guy Opperman]

As a formerly very fat, self-employed jockey and a self-employed white-collar barrister, I fully appreciate the issues concerned. I agree with my right hon. Friend that these are issues we have to address. He will be aware that we are trialling self-employment matters on an ongoing basis with the National Employment Savings Trust and a variety of private sector organisations. We welcome unions and other organisations that wish to be part of that, and it is front and centre of what we are trying to do.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

Too many young people do not save for their pensions, so how can the Minister ensure that young workers are better represented in workplace pension schemes?

[Guy Opperman]

The statistics are actually getting better by the minute. In 2012, only 35% of young people aged between 22 and 29 saved into a workplace pension. Now 85% of 22 to 29-year-olds save, but there is more we can do, including for the self-employed. The 8% that is being saved has made a transformational difference, and the opt-out rate among the young is the lowest of all the cohorts.

Access to Pension Credit

Nick Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2019 Westminster Hall

[Chris Elmore]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. My point is that if all our constituents claimed the pension credit they are entitled to, it would cost more than providing free TV licences, so surely a good option would be to get better take-up of pension credit and to continue with free TV licences.

The new approach, when packaged in a Government press release, might at first look to some like a logical step to take, but when we unpack it and look at how many people are not accessing the financial support to which they are entitled, we see how utterly disgraceful the policy is and how much of a backward step it is. Put simply, the Government need to stop outsourcing their welfare policy to the BBC.

Of course, the Government provide a range of measures to protect the most hard-pressed pensioners, many of which are welcome and needed, yet their flagship policy to lift pensioners out of poverty—pension credit—is failing.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. Does he agree that the Government need to launch a major awareness-raising campaign about pension credit? There are more than 2,000 households in Blaenau Gwent that could be missing out on a total of £5.6 million every year. They have the right to this money, so let us make sure that they get it.

[Chris Elmore]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his intervention, and I completely agree with him that the Government need to do a lot more to encourage pensioners to claim pension credit and make them understand that there is no stigma in their gaining pension credit. However, even in my constituency of Ogmore there is more than £5.1 million that is not being claimed by pensioners, so I completely agree with him, and I hope that the Minister will respond to some of these points at the end of the debate.

Pensions Dashboard

Nick Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2019 Westminster Hall

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) on securing the debate. To state the obvious, pensions are critical, but they can also be extremely complicated. People have an average of 11 jobs over their working life, so they are bound to build up several different pension pots over time. There are more than 40,000 private pension schemes in the UK, so bringing all the information together in one place and making it easy for people to access is sensible, though clearly a big step. That is why the pensions dashboard was supported cross-party, and by the industry.

However, there are real concerns about delegating the operation to the private sector. I will emphasise the areas where we need clarity urgently. First, the Government state that they expect people’s state pension entitlement “to ultimately be part” of the dashboard, but do not elaborate. Given that that is a major segment of many people’s total pension pot, will the Minister say by what date the state pension will be part of the dashboard?

Secondly, the Government say that they expect “the majority” of pension schemes to be included on the dashboard within three to four years, but then say they would legislate to ensure that occurs within

“a reasonable timeframe agreed by industry”.

To make better progress and to aid future pensioners, will the Government set a three-year timeframe in legislation and require all pension schemes to comply with it? I understand how big this task is, but we need to be ambitious on the timeframes.

Thirdly, the Government say that they expect

“a standard level of identity assurance”

for the service. I thank the Minister for his intervention, but given that people’s most sensitive financial information will be centralised, should the safeguards here not be made as strong as possible, just as they should for our consumer banking services? That is really important.

Finally, it was reported today that the Financial Conduct Authority has only 10 staff, out of a total of 3,700, working on investment scams, which is way off being enough. Does the Minister believe that is adequate, given that nearly £200 million was lost to scams last year?

Accurate and straightforward information is essential to helping people navigate this important but sometimes complex field. We need to make sure that they have that information, so that they have peace of mind when making critical financial decisions for the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

Thank you, Ms Ryan, for chairing this debate. I thank the 16 colleagues who have supported my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord). He has brought forward a debate that is clearly topical and important. In times when some might argue that Parliament is not debating matters, here is an example of a cross-party approach, to try to address a problem for our times with a modern, FinTech solution. I believe that has application to one and all.

There is no doubt that the pensions dashboard will be part of the FinTech revolution. It is a reform that can harness innovative technology to tech-charge pensions. It will provide accurate, secure and easy-to-understand information about people’s pension pot in one place. Fundamentally, it is a democratiser. It will bring a traditional 20th-century—some would say 19th-century—industry into the 21st century, so that the information is available to one and all on an iPad, smartphone or tablet. That is surely the right thing to do at a time when, as hon. Members have outlined, auto-enrolment has been transformational. Nearly 10 million people have auto-enrolled, and 1.4 million businesses are in a position to provide auto-enrolment to their workers.

I accept the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, and I will put the auto-enrolment statistics in the Library for all Members. I will also see whether I can make a short written ministerial statement about putting it there. In his constituency, 14,000 people are benefiting from auto-enrolment, thanks to more than 2,000 employers on his patch who are supporting individuals in that way. The stats on how many individuals have the benefit of auto-enrolment, and how many business are supporting it, are available to hon. Members for each and every constituency.

As was rightly outlined by hon. Members, there is cross-party consensus. That is the right way forward, because pension policy works on a cross-party basis. The consultation closed on 28 January, and we hope to respond to it by approximately mid-March. It answers some of the points made by hon. Members. We hope that the dozens of responses submitted will provide further answers, and that the Government response will also provide some answers. Hon. Members will understand that I am constrained in how I can respond to matters raised today by the fact that I am making a live, formal response, but I will endeavour to respond to the best of my ability.

On the point about compelling individual providers, paragraph 180 of the consultation clearly sets out that it is the Government’s intention to proceed to compulsion. My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) and the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) raised the issue of the timetable for data provision by providers. I was interested to hear the suggestion of the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent of a robust three-year time limit. Several providers responded to the consultation, and we will go through those responses in some detail.

There can be no doubt, however, that compulsion is coming, and that the only issue is the timeline. Certain providers could provide the data quite quickly. By and large, they know who they are, because they are the modern master trust providers that are already up to speed. Others will take longer. There is a legitimate debate to be had in this House, as we introduce the Bill, about whether we put in place a specific time limit for data provision, or whether that is done in secondary legislation, and with merely indicative outlines.

I will briefly deal with the Financial Conduct Authority. I am conscious of the evidence given at the Work and Pensions Committee today, and I have spoken to the Chair, the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Frank Field). I accept that there must be a better way to regulate pension transfers, and to give individuals advice on how they handle their money; there was examination of that point by the all-party Work and Pensions Committee. I welcome its views.

The hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham) said that simple is good. There is no doubt that the view of the Government, and of the vast majority of providers, is that simple is the way ahead. If the dashboard cannot be accessible on a laptop or mobile phone, and give an understanding of what assets an individual has in their pension, there will be difficulties. We need to make a traditional, paper-based business accessible to the individual, and that is certainly what we will seek to do.

I do not have time to go into the detail of the difference between commercial and non-commercial providers of the dashboard. As set out in some detail in the consultation, however, it is definitely the Government’s view that there should be a commercial and a non-commercial provider; they would provide individual dashboards. To harness industry innovation and maximise consumer engagement, the right way forward is to have an open standards approach that allows for multiple dashboards in the future.

However, the delivery body—it should be the single financial guidance body, as we set out in the consultation—should be the provider of a non-commercial dashboard that is effectively state-run through a third party. Such provision is obviously dependent on the delivery model and the delivery group that is set up. That works hand in hand with the response to the consultation, so I cannot give more detail, given where we are at this stage. I hope to update the House in the formal consultation response in March.

[Nick Smith]

The Minister did an elegant soft-shoe shuffle around my question about whether the FCA had sufficient capacity to deal with financial scammers. It would be unfair to press him on it now, but I ask him to challenge the FCA privately about whether it has enough people working for it to ensure that rogues are held to account.

[Guy Opperman]

We all wish to ensure that the difficulties that the hon. Gentleman’s constituents went through with the British Steel pensions scheme do not happen again. I assure him that I met the FCA on Monday. It had an interesting time today in front of the Work and Pensions Committee. The views of the right hon. Member for Birkenhead are clear, and I will liaise with him on an ongoing basis. We know what direction we are going in, but with regard to how we proceed, the devil is in the detail. That relates to not just the transfer, but the advice to the individual thereafter, which is complex. There are various versions of a way ahead on that.

Several other issues have been raised. My hon. Friend the Member for North Warwickshire (Craig Tracey) made the point about funding. In other countries, funding has been provided through a levy system on the pensions business, as has traditionally been the case in this country. I will take away his point about occupational pensions, but I certainly anticipate that we will go down the levy route, unless others persuade me otherwise.

On my hon. Friend’s other point about the timings of the non-commercial and the commercial dashboards, again relates to the response to the consultation, and is that a matter for the delivery organisation. There is no question but that we desire all organisations to be up to speed as soon as possible. As for how we do the non-commercial and commercial dashboards at the speeds that we are talking about, that is something that we genuinely cannot say at present, but I take the point on board.

My hon. Friend knows that I am a passionate advocate of the mid-life MOT, and I am happy to discuss it in the House on an ongoing basis, because it is definitely the right thing for the future. Various companies, particularly Aviva and Hargreaves Lansdown, are pioneering it; more specifically, the Department for Work and Pensions is considering conducting one for some of its staff.

I am conscious of the time, and that I must give my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon a minute to respond to the debate. I thank hon. Members for their many recommendations. I hope that the dashboard can be used across all financial products, so that our banking apps, and information about our pension providers and our savings, all become available to us in that way in the longer term. I welcome the cross-party support that clearly exists in the House for it, and I look forward to developing it with hon. Members.