Prevent: Learning Review

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

It may be hard for newer Members to understand how difficult this is for more experienced Members, such as the right hon. Gentleman, who spent so many years on these green Benches, working so closely with a much beloved colleague. I see that the right hon. Gentleman is sitting below another shield. Members across the House understand the pain experienced with the loss of our colleagues, and our shared determination to work together and with others to do everything we can to ensure that those who serve in this House have the support and the protections that they need and deserve.

The right hon. Gentleman rightly took the opportunity to reference one of Sir David’s many achievements: the city status of Southend. That certainly would not have happened without Sir David’s campaigning over many years. I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for acknowledging the work that will take place with Essex police. I understand the important concerns that he has raised about Prevent. The terms of reference of the Southport inquiry rightly are still a matter of discussion between the Home Secretary, the Home Office and the families in that particular case, so I am unable to make a judgment about that at this point. What I can do is not only reiterate the point that I have already made, but offer a further commitment from the Home Secretary and me to look very carefully at this, to continue the conversation with the late Sir David’s family and other Members, and to work out the best mechanism to provide them and all Members of this House with the answers that they both want and deserve.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

The murder of Sir David Amess cut to the very heart of democracy. Clearly, he was the very best of British. The Minister talked about parliamentary security in his considered statement. I have spoken to many colleagues across the House who have said that they feel that abuse and harassment are peaking, and many feel unsafe. Of course, it is unwise to go into details of specific measures, but is the Minister confident that these measures will make us feel safer in this House?

[Dan Jarvis]

As always, I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his thoughtful contribution. “Best of British” is precisely the right phraseology to apply to Sir David. My hon. Friend asked an important question about how we defend our democracy. He asked about my confidence in the work that we are doing to ensure that Members of this House and elected representatives elsewhere can perform their duties with the confidence that they are safe. I must be honest with him and say that that is an ongoing process. All of us in this place will have experienced threats, harassment and intimidation. That is worse particularly for women Members. It is a stain on our society that there are those out there who feel that they can abuse female elected representatives.

What I can give my hon. Friend is an absolute assurance that we are organising and marshalling the resources that we have across Government, working with law enforcement and operational partners, and co-operating very closely with you, Mr Speaker, and the House authorities, to ensure that those who step forward to serve can do so with the security and comfort of knowing they are properly protected. I will leave no stone unturned in my work with colleagues across Government to ensure that is the case. Where individuals have concerns, wherever they may be, I will always make myself available to discuss those concerns with them.

Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Bill

Mike Tapp Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 10th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Chris Philp]

I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman knows which Government gave an effective asylum amnesty; it was the previous Labour Government. If he is so interested in the asylum backlog, does he know whether it has gone up or down under the new Government? It has gone up, as has the number of illegal migrants crossing the channel, leaving a safe country—France—from which there is no necessity to depart in order to find safety. France has a fully functioning asylum system, does it not?

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

In 2018, 400 people crossed. On the Conservative Government’s watch, 130,000 people crossed the border. Will the shadow Home Secretary apologise?

--- Later in debate ---

[Kenneth Stevenson (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

I shall begin by committing my support to the Government’s efforts today. After years of the Conservatives failing to secure our borders with failed projects such as the Rwanda scheme, it is refreshing to see legislation come forward in this place that will smash criminal smuggling gangs and disrupt their ability to carry out small boat crossings. When debating such issues, we must not forget the lives lost in small boat crossings. They include women and children, often fleeing violence and persecution, and they are treated in the most abhorrent manner by criminal gangs who put them on those small boats with no care whatsoever for their safety, or indeed for whether they make it across the channel. We must be in no doubt that the sole focus of these criminal people smugglers is profit. They care not for the lives of the vulnerable and frightened, but only for lining their own pockets and the continuation of their despicable criminal enterprise.

Although not a surprise, it remains absolutely absurd that Reform UK and increasingly the Tories, under the Leader of the Opposition, point the finger at a Government that are actually working to address this issue, rather than work co-operatively to save lives, punish criminals and secure our borders. It would be fair to say that Reform UK is engaging in a form of politics that absolutely scrapes the barrel. It is focused on pitting working people against one another. Its language and manner have seen people who have been settled in this country for decades become increasingly frightened about walking their own streets, and it has no care whatsoever if its actions erode the great British values of tolerance, inclusivity and respect.

[Mike Tapp]

Does my hon. Friend agree that perhaps the reason Reform is not here tonight is because it has so many other jobs to attend to?

[Kenneth Stevenson]

I certainly agree with my hon. Friend.

As the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary have said, the acts of criminal gangs must be treated as a global security threat, and as such must be addressed using counter-terrorism tactics. I am pleased that this legislation will allow immigration enforcement, the police and the National Crime Agency to seize electronic devices from people who come here illegally, if intelligence suggests that this would help to gather information on organised immigration crime. Indeed, I am reassured that these measures have been established in co-operation with law enforcement and by learning best practice from other examples of tackling and defeating sophisticated and organised crime.

In taking these steps, we will limit and disrupt the operations of the criminal gangs, which is critical to securing our borders. This stands in stark contrast to the previous Government, who spent £700 million of taxpayers’ money on their failed Rwanda scheme. Their costly gimmick sent just four volunteers to Rwanda and caused a complete collapse in asylum decision making. What a difference serious government makes. Is it any wonder that the people of this country voted for change?

We have debated in great detail the technicalities of this legislation, but I would like to briefly look at my own constituency of Airdrie and Shotts. Lanarkshire is a place where many communities from across the globe have settled, where their culture has been respected and enjoyed, and where people have been welcomed after fleeing situations that could only be described as horrifying. However, just last week when I held my surgery on Friday, I took a walk around Airdrie and found graffiti in our town centre that can only be described as racist, abhorrent and hostile. It was the sort of language that is not welcome in Airdrie and Shotts, and I reiterate my support and solidarity for those communities who have made our towns and villages their home over many generations and contributed positively to our local area.

Immigration must be controlled, but it can and does work. I conclude by reminding those on the Opposition Benches that people are watching. People are listening to their rhetoric, and if they continue to embark on a campaign of rhetoric and divisive messaging, they risk destroying the historic ties, tolerance and unity that make Britain great.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

The British people are firm, but they are fair. They believe in order. They believe in justice. They know that security and decency are not rivals; they are partners. Those are the values that built our country, and they must be the values that shape our future, but for too long we have seen those values undermined. The promise of secure borders became a false hope. The system buckled under failure. Where there is failure, there are some who seek to divide us: to turn neighbour against neighbour and to fuel fear instead of fixing problems. They wrap themselves in our great flag, yet they offer nothing but empty slogans and false patriotism.

Border security is not a game. It is not a slogan. It is a fundamental duty of any serious Government. For years, the British people were promised control; instead, they got failure. We inherited open borders. Small boat crossings skyrocketed from just a few hundred in 2018 to 150,000 since. The last Government talked tough but were paralysed by their own failure. Under Labour, that ends.

In just six months, the Government have already taken decisive action. We have set up the Border Security Command and we have fixed and strengthened important international alliances. Nearly 4,000 illegal workers have been arrested since we came into government. Vitally, we have deported 16,400 people who have no right to be here—that is more in six months than the last Government managed in an entire year. The British people were told that this could not be done, but we are proving otherwise.

Today, we take another crucial step with this important Bill. The smuggling gangs are not petty criminals or opportunists; they are predators, and they make a mockery of our borders. We promised the British people that we would treat them like the national security threat they are, and that is exactly what the Bill does.

We do not wait for terrorists to carry out their plans before we act. We disrupt them, we intercept them and we take them down before they can do harm. We hit their networks, seize their assets and cut off their ability to operate. The Bill gives us the power to do the same against the smuggling gangs, to stop those vile criminals before they reach our shores. It allows us to use intelligence to take action, just as we do with terrorists. When our security services, police and the Border Security Command know what those criminals are doing, under the Bill they can act immediately, not sit back and wait for another overloaded boat to capsize in our channel.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I kindly say to the hon. Gentleman—he will know that that is my form when I ask questions—that there is a serious problem with the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, with people coming in through the Republic, into Northern Ireland and across to the mainland. What are the Minister and the Government doing to address that issue for us in Northern Ireland and the whole of the United Kingdom?

[Mike Tapp]

My understanding from the Minister earlier was that the Bill would work across all borders coming into the United Kingdom—I am sure that will be clarified later.

The Bill removes the loopholes that have allowed criminals to exploit our system. Smuggling is an industry, and we are dismantling it boat by boat, gang by gang. The British people know that an asylum and immigration system only works if it is properly enforced. They know that border security is not about hostility; it is about order and rules. They know that we must not allow criminals to decide who comes into this country. There is no silver bullet, but this Government are taking that control back. We will be firm, because the British people demand it; we will be fair, because that is who we are; and we will be decent, because strength without decency is weakness. Division is easy. It takes moral courage to lead with decency and strength. We are delivering security, and we play the ball, not the player. The Bill will help turn the page on failure, restore order to our borders and protect the country we serve.

Southport Attack

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, as I always am, for his very sensible and reasonable question. I am very happy to arrange a presentation in the way that he has described, if he and other right hon. and hon. Members think that that would be useful. I think it would be and I think it is a helpful suggestion. The truth of the matter is that, in the context of the Prevent programme, we will be dealing with a wide range of different threats. We have spoken previously about our increasing concern with regard to the number of young people who are presenting for a variety of different reasons, but those reasons do include very significant concerns that relate to mental health, autism and neurodivergence. We are looking at those things incredibly carefully. As I know that he will understand, the public inquiry will of course look at them as well. I referenced earlier on in my remarks some pilot trials that we will be launching next week. They are about looking at how we can manage data in a more effective way and how we can ensure that those people who currently do not meet the thresholds for referral into the Prevent programme can be guaranteed the support that they obviously require in order to mitigate the risks that they are exposed to. I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s approach. I will think on it further and come back to him with thoughts about a presentation.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

It is right that the Prevent system is reviewed in detail to ensure that any failings can never happen again, and I thank the Security Minister for his important and constructive statement. Our judicial system and the rule of law are at the very heart of British values, yet we have seen repeated attempts by some opposition to demean our values. The Government’s insistence on following legal advice has ultimately led to a successful prosecution. Imprisoning murderers and terrorists should never be put at risk, so does the Minister agree that the House should unite on national security issues, as it has done in the past, instead of playing political games?

[Dan Jarvis]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. I agree with him. I hope the House knows that the Government will always want to work in a constructive, co-operative and cross-party way with regard to matters relating to national security. That is, I think, the right approach. I can give him an assurance that in the aftermath of the terrible attack back in July last year, the Home Secretary and I were absolutely determined to ensure that we did nothing and said nothing that would interfere with ongoing proceedings. We would, rightly, never have been forgiven had we interfered with that process in a way that might have undermined a trial. That was our motivation: securing justice for the victims and their families.

Extremism Review

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Tuesday 28th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Dan Jarvis]

The hon. Member has been consistent in raising his concerns in this particular area. I hope he will understand that I was clear earlier that many documents are produced across Government as part of commission work that are not implemented and that do not constitute Government policy. To be absolutely clear with him, this is a leaked document, but the work did not recommend an expansion in the extremism definition. These are not Government plans; this is not Government policy.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

If the Conservatives now consider it okay for public servants to leak documents relating to national security, I hope they will not object if we see leaks on matters relating to their time in charge, such as the risks arising from Russian donors to the Tory party and to our great country—whatever happened to British values? Does the Security Minister agree—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Shelbrooke, your voice has continued even though I don’t see as much of you these days.

[Mike Tapp]

Thank you, Mr Speaker—I am not surprised Conservative Members are wound up by that. Does the Security Minister agree that at least one party in this House needs to behave within our values when it comes to security, and that security leaks are wrong?

[Dan Jarvis]

All leaks are wrong, but let me take this opportunity to say that I am actually very proud of the civil servants in the Home Office, who work extremely hard day in, day out to keep our country safe from a diverse range of threats. A number of Conservative Members here have worked in the Home Office, and I very much hope that they share my view that we should be extremely grateful to those civil servants who work around the clock to keep our country safe, and I am grateful for their efforts.

Southport Attack

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member will know that a referral to Prevent can be for young people who may have expressed an interest in school massacre, as opposed to those who have committed a crime. The point of the Prevent programme is early intervention to take action preventing young people from committing crime. My view is that the powers are not strong enough currently to prevent young people from committing crimes or getting drawn into extremist violence. That is exactly why we need to introduce the youth diversion order—a stronger power for the police to take action in these extremely serious cases.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

It is important to note that this attacker is a terrorist. He has been charged under the Terrorism Act 2000 and the Biological Weapons Act 1974. The man is a terrorist. The attack itself has not been labelled terrorism because of the lack of a clear ideological motive—that is a decision for the police and the CPS. Will the Home Office look into how our legal frameworks might be updated to recognise the full horror of acts intended to terrorise?

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend is right. We need the legal framework to be up to date to ensure sufficient scope, powers and sentencing are in place to deal with acts that are intended to terrorise, even where there is no ideology. He is also right to say that this man has been charged under the Terrorism Act and has pleaded guilty to a terrorist offence, and I can confirm that he will be treated as a terrorist offender in prison.

Terrorism (Protection of Premises) Bill

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 9th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

This legislation is a fitting tribute to Martyn Hett and the lives of 21 others that were tragically cut short in the 2017 Manchester Arena attack. It is also a testament to the tireless efforts of Martyn’s mother, Figen Murray, who has campaigned with such dignity and determination to ensure that no family endures the pain that hers has suffered. This Bill is about increased resilience for us as a country. It seeks to make our public spaces safer by requiring premises and events to take proportionate, practical steps to prepare for and mitigate the impact of a terrorist attack. It is about ensuring that if the unthinkable happens, lives are saved and harm is reduced. I speak with personal conviction on this matter. Having served in a counter-terror role, I have seen at first hand the devastating consequences of terrorism and the critical importance of the prior preparation that this Bill lays out. It is essential that our laws and systems keep pace with an ever-evolving risk.

[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that Manchester, in a way, stimulated or catalysed this legislation. It is bigger than that, but it is no more tragic, for it could not possibly be, as he has described. He is also right to say that terrorists are becoming more adaptable, so we have to adapt the way we deal with them. Legislation is part of that. It is difficult, because legislation takes a long time to perfect, if properly scrutinised in this House. The amendments that have been tabled today are an attempt to improve the Bill, not to frustrate it. Does he agree that the Minister and the Government will need to regularly review the provisions of the legislation—there is reference in the Bill to reviews, guidance and so on—and that that will become an ongoing part of how we deal with that increasing adaptability on the part of those who seek to do us harm?

[Mike Tapp]

I thank the right hon. Member for his intervention. Any threat that this country faces is continuously reviewed by the Ministry of Defence, MI5, the police and the Government, and we adapt our approaches to suit.

That brings me to the fact that since 2017, MI5 and the police have disrupted 43 late-stage attacks, yet we have seen 15 domestic terror attacks in this country. These incidents underline the ongoing and difficult nature of the threats. I am sure the whole House will agree that we have the finest intelligence services in the world, and we owe it to them to enable their work as much as we possibly can from this place. This Bill is another step towards achieving that. The approach it proposes is both practical and proportionate for small and large venues. I commend the Government for engaging widely in the development of the Bill and for working with businesses, local authorities and security experts to ensure that it is both effective and proportionate. It is right that we in this House support the Bill, and in doing so, we send a clear message that we will not only remember those we have lost but act decisively to protect those we serve.

[Jerome Mayhew]

Mention has been made during the course of this debate of cross-party consensus and what a good thing that is. In some senses that is absolutely right. We should have absolute cross-party consensus on honouring the memory of Martyn Hett and all those who were killed and injured in the Manchester Arena attack in May 2017, but I raise a note of caution because sometimes when we stop being adversarial in this place, we create legislation that is not as good as it could be. That is particularly the case where we have a very emotive issue such as this, and where there is a huge amount of personal sympathy across all the parties in the House. There is a risk that extreme circumstances provoke a natural reaction of saying, “Something must be done. This has to be prevented from ever happening again,” and we end up with bad law.

There is a good example of this risk in the Bill’s progression from its development under the previous Administration, through the election and out the other side. The initial intention of clause 2 was that the standard duty would apply to premises with a capacity to welcome 100-plus people. In my view, this would have had a wholly disproportionate impact on the kind of community buildings that I represent as a church warden, as well as on the village halls that we have already discussed. Pretty much every village hall has the capacity to accommodate 100 people. Every church, bar the very smallest chapels, can expect to welcome 100 people at a wedding or funeral from time to time. There is a tiny, infinitesimally small risk of terrorism in these typically rural areas, yet the previous Administration’s Bill would have imposed very significant costs and time commitments on volunteers. I have already mentioned a couple of times that I am a church warden and, again, I emphasise the risk of unintended consequences when we are all so keen to get on that we do not challenge each other.

Police Reform

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his comments. It has been a great pleasure to work with him on various Committees over the years. He is correct that this is an operational matter. It is for chief constables to decide how they use the resources available to them. My understanding is that very little time is actually spent on non-crime hate incidents, but I will check that with His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

Coming from a policing family, and having served with the National Crime Agency, I am immensely proud of British policing. However, I am equally devastated at the decline overseen by the Conservatives. Can the Minister outline what we are doing to rebuild British policing and return it to being the best in the world?

Asylum Seekers: Hotel Accommodation

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle]

We have a relatively new Government in France just bedding in. I reassure the right hon. Gentleman that we are working closely with them to see how we can strengthen and deepen our co-operation and partnership.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

The right hon. Member for Stone, Great Wyrley and Penkridge (Sir Gavin Williamson) who raised the urgent question appears to be suffering from some memory loss. Under the Conservative Government, we saw 130,000 small boat crossings and record backlogs at the Home Office. The Conservatives opened 400 hotels—that is, 21,000 places costing £8 million per day to the taxpayer. Does the Minister recall him raising that issue under the previous Government?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

No, I do not. I noticed the revelations at the weekend about why the Conservatives decided to call the election earlier than some of us had perhaps thought. One reason set out in Tim Shipman’s book “Out” was that illegal migration was a problem,

“with a new armada of small boats predicted and the issue of whether they would be able to get a repatriation flight to Rwanda in the air before polling day.”

They evidently decided that they could not. We are now hearing this complete fiction from Conservative Members that somehow the Rwanda scheme was just about to work before we scrapped it, when they had spent £700 million on an increasingly futile and ridiculous attempt to get the scheme off the ground.

Small Boat Crossings

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 6th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

In 2018, 400 crossed the channel. Since then, more than 140,000 have crossed, the majority of them on the Conservatives’ watch. All they could introduce were ridiculous gimmicks, such as Rwanda, which cost taxpayers millions of pounds. Does the Minister agree that the new injection of cash into border security command is a better use of taxpayers’ money than the gimmicks that the Conservatives introduced?

[Dame Angela Eagle]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. The issue here is dealing with cross-border organised immigration crime. To do that, we have to talk to our international allies and co-operate with them across borders. That is exactly what the creation of the border security command will do, both operationally and politically, and we will see the results.

Police Accountability

Mike Tapp Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member makes an important point, because often when we talk about trust and confidence for communities, young people, who are frequently those who have the most contact with the police, feel left out of those discussions. It is important that they, too, have confidence in the police to keep them safe. Restoring neighbourhood policing and having back in our communities police officers who know the local area, and whom young people can get to know, is one of the most important and powerful ways to rebuild trust and make sure that everybody has confidence. That is also how we prevent crime and damage in communities.

[Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)]

It is important that such officers remain anonymous until conviction, and I fully back this statement. As the Home Secretary will know, it is not just the officers facing trial who have to go through intimidation and threats, but their families. Justice is essential, as is protecting our brave officers. Will the Home Secretary join me in acknowledging the huge toll that these policing roles can take not just on officers, but on their families?

[Yvette Cooper]

I agree. Families often face some of the most challenging burdens and pressures, and we hear from police officers that their concern about the impact on their families often affects them strongly. That is why the presumption of anonymity to the point of conviction is really important to support families, as well as officers.