Oral Answers to Questions
Michael McCann Excerpts(9 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
7. What assessment he has made of the effects of the distribution of housing benefit in Scotland.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (David Mundell)
In recent months, I have met every local authority in Scotland to discuss a wide range of issues, including housing benefit.
Mr McCann
A report by my trade union, the GMB, shows that huge sums of housing benefit are paid to company landlords in Scotland. Bearing in mind the Secretary of State’s earlier answer, will the Minister meet me to discuss how we can bring together the UK, Scottish and local governments to ensure that we get best value for housing benefit and that we can create new houses and new jobs, rather than fill the pockets of company landlords?
David Mundell
I would certainly be happy to meet the hon. Gentleman, with a view to convening such a meeting.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael McCann Excerpts(10 years ago)
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Mr Carmichael
Indeed. My hon. Friend gives me an opportunity to remind the House that the United Kingdom has the fastest growing economy in the G7, and that Scotland is the second wealthiest part of that economy.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
10. The people of Scotland want facts, so will the Secretary of State tell us on what date, if Scotland chooses to separate, will it either have to begin printing its own money or, failing that, start using the pound as a foreign currency?
Mr Carmichael
The hon. Gentleman invites me to look into the future and make a prediction, which is never an easy prospect—it is an unwise prospect for anyone in politics. The truth of the matter is that all these things are uncertain, and they bring enormous risks in areas where we do very well as a result of being part of the United Kingdom.
Scotland’s Place in the UK
Michael McCann Excerpts(10 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to follow such a thoughtful and emotional contribution from the hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart).
I want to talk about the reasons why Scotland is stronger when we pool and share our resources as a United Kingdom, but let me start by outlining what I believe to be the three main elements of the debate on the streets of Scotland. First, it is about the things that we know will change. Secondly, it is about the things that would not change. Thirdly, it is about the issues that would require negotiation. It has become apparent that there is a nationalist plan to move as many items as possible from the negotiation box into the box for things that would not change: the pound, membership of the European Union and membership of NATO, to name just three. It is pretty clear that the motivation for that move is to create an atmosphere in which people in Scotland feel that separation is not a risk. I hope that the yes campaign will change its strategy and tactics because a victory based on a deceit would be no victory at all.
We also know that many people have stepped in to make their views known, most notably and recently the Governor of the Bank of England. I hope that people will continue to do so without fear and will make positive contributions to the argument on both sides, but I must place on record my concern that the apparatus of the state is being abused by those in power. The White Paper, which I have in my hand—Members will be delighted to know that it is not my speech—was billed as the document that would answer all the questions on independence, but it does not. Sir Peter Housden, the permanent secretary to the Scottish Government, must explain why taxpayers’ money was used to create and issue that document. The Secretary of State, the Cabinet Office and the head of the civil service should explain why they have maintained their silence while the impartiality of the civil service has been compromised.
Let me give just two examples. On page 37, the White Paper states:
“The Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government in Edinburgh are responsible for a range of ‘devolved’ matters”
before going on to list them. It then states:
“The Westminster Government—currently a coalition of the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties—and the Westminster Parliament have ‘reserved’ responsibilities”
before going on to name those rights. What can we take from those two statements? There is no mention of the United Kingdom Parliament and it refers to a Westminster Parliament and Westminster Government that do not exist. It is factually incorrect, so why did civil servants allow the document to be released and published at the taxpayers’ expense?
It does not end there. Each page is filled with similar partisan comments that belie the Scottish Government’s position that the document was designed to illuminate. One example really makes my blood boil, and it was mentioned a few moments ago by the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). Page 13 is entitled “Gains from independence” and states:
“Abolition of the ‘bedroom tax’ which will save 82,500 households in Scotland—including 63,500 households with a disabled adult and 15,500 households with children—an average of £50 per month”.
What could be more despicable and reprehensible than preying on the fears and concerns of the most vulnerable people in Scotland? That statement and the words of SNP Ministers on the issue were designed to create the impression that the Scottish Parliament could not remove the tax without independence. This week, by their own actions, they have confirmed that as a deceit.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech, not just dissecting the White Paper as what it is, a work of fiction, but saying that the Scottish Government’s current powers can be used in such a way. Does he think that the people of Scotland will be asking serious questions of the SNP Government about why they have waited more than 12 months to abolish the bedroom tax in Scotland?
Mr McCann
I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. There are many more examples and each page of the document is filled with similar deceits. It is not fair on the people of Scotland, who should be relying on informative documents from the Scottish Government to inform the decision they will have to take on 18 September.
Scotland is part of the most successful political and economic union that the world has ever seen, as has been mentioned by other hon. Members.
Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)
Is it not also the case that the UK has not been invaded by a foreign body for more than 750 years? Surely that in itself demonstrates just how successful the Union has been.
Mr McCann
I will defer to my hon. Friend on the amount of time, given that he was probably there for most of it. He is absolutely correct.
If people vote no in the referendum, they can wake up on 19 September knowing that they will keep the pound, that the United Kingdom will remain a member of NATO and that we will retain our EU membership. They will know that brave men and women, a lot of them Scots, are looking after our national security and much more. They will know that those matters will not be subject to negotiation.
There is one more crucial point. The United Kingdom is successful because we pool and share resources. Money earned in more prosperous parts of the United Kingdom can be shared with areas that have fewer resources and, as history tells us, areas of wealth are not always fixed. The size, depth and sheer diversity of the United Kingdom mean that we will always have sources of wealth for redistribution, even when certain natural resources cease to exist. Our ability to pool and share our resources, coupled with the certainty of currency and international agreements to which we are party, insulates us as a United Kingdom in ways with which smaller nations cannot possibly compete.
There is a human element too. I was a trade union official, elected and full time for 26 years of my career, and I have worked with colleagues and friends across the United Kingdom. Walking down a street in London, Darlington, Cardiff or Belfast is, apart from the accent, no different from walking down the streets of Glasgow, because people have the same problems. We share much more than currency and membership of international agreements. We share a history, and we share the same hopes and aspirations for future generations. Last night, there was an addition to the McCann family. My niece Maria had an 8 lb 4 oz baby boy in Wishaw general hospital. Members will be delighted to know that mother and child are doing well. I hope that that child gets the same chance to grow up in the United Kingdom as I have had.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael McCann Excerpts(11 years ago)
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David Mundell
I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, which I will take forward with EventScotland and Shona Robison, the Scottish Government Minister with responsibility for the Ryder cup.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
The Ryder cup is a unique golf tournament, because the competitors compete not for cash prizes but for the pride of representing their country or continent, so it is perverse that volunteers will be asked to pay to deliver their services. Will the Minister add that point to his representations when he meets the event’s organisers?
David Mundell
I will certainly be happy to add the hon. Gentleman’s concerns to those expressed by the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan).
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
Q1. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 24 April.
The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
Before I list my engagements, I am sure that the whole House will want to join me in paying tribute to Lance Corporal Jamie Jonathan Webb of 1st Battalion the Mercian Regiment, who died in Afghanistan on Tuesday 26 March. He was described as
“an outstanding professional; bright, engaging and hugely talented.”
We must pay tribute to his heroic service to our country.
This morning I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
Mr McCann
The whole House will wish to associate itself with the Prime Minister’s tribute to Lance Corporal Jamie Webb. We pass on our deepest condolences to his family and friends.
Labour market statistics show that, even after the tax changes, real earnings have dropped by £1,700 since the last general election. Knowing that hard-working families across our country are being hit hard in their pockets, does the Prime Minister want to show any remorse, or indeed apologise, for giving millionaires, including himself, a tax cut?
The Prime Minister
The people who should be apologising are those in the party that created the mess in the first place. We will ask the richest in our country to pay more in every year of this Parliament than they paid in any year of the last Parliament. That is the truth.
Constitutional Law
Michael McCann Excerpts(11 years, 4 months ago)
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Michael Moore
I think that there would be a price to pay for that. If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I shall return to that issue shortly.
The three referendums held under the auspices of the Electoral Commission have been: the north-east regional assembly referendum in 2004; the referendum in Wales in 2011 on further devolution; and the referendum on the voting system for the UK Parliament, also held in 2011. In all three cases, the Electoral Commission reviewed the Government’s proposed question and provided its advice. The Government responded by revising the questions in line with that advice. Of course, in the past, some Members on the SNP Benches have referred to the wording of the proposed question for referendums on local council tax.
The Government made it clear when they brought forward the regulations to provide for those referendums that discussions were ongoing with the Electoral Commission on the wording of the question. Revised regulations were tabled on 8 January and the Electoral Commission has confirmed that it is content with the revised wording.
Under the terms of the Edinburgh agreement, it will be for the Scottish Government to respond to the advice of the Electoral Commission. The Scottish Government have committed to putting before the Scottish Parliament their response to the Electoral Commission’s recommendations. That means that the Scottish Government will be held to account by the public and Parliament alike for how they respond to that advice. All Opposition leaders in the Scottish Parliament have stated their intention to abide by the Electoral Commission’s judgment in this case. To do otherwise would be a significant step, for which there would be a political price.
As I have set out, both Governments recognise that the referendum process must be seen to be fair by both sides of the campaign. That applies across the process, but particularly to the financing of the campaign. As part of the Edinburgh agreement, the Scottish Government committed to consulting the two campaign organisations for their views before proposing spending limits for the referendum campaign to the Scottish Parliament.
The agreement ensures that the independent Electoral Commission will provide the Scottish Government with advice on the appropriate spending limits for the two campaigns and the parties. That is what has happened in previous referendums, such as the 2011 referendum in Wales on further powers for the Welsh Assembly. In that referendum, the Electoral Commission recommended that the spending limit for designated campaign organisations should be set by reference to the expenditure limits that apply to elections to the relevant legislature. In its response to both Governments’ consultation documents, the Electoral Commission provided its view that the model remains appropriate for the Scottish independence referendum. The Electoral Commission has met the parties represented in the Scottish Parliament to seek their views on the finance arrangements.
When the Scottish Government set out their final proposals for financing the referendum campaign in the referendum Bill, they must set themselves aside from their own campaigning interests and recognise that their approach is being watched by all of Scotland, and indeed by the international community. That is a point that the Deputy First Minister recognised when she rightly said that the poll must satisfy the highest international standards. All people must believe that there is a fair process and, therefore, a fair result.
Both Governments agree that the basis for the franchise will be that for the Scottish Parliament elections—that is, those UK or EU citizens who are resident in Scotland. That is set out in the Edinburgh agreement. In addition, the Scottish Government propose to give 16 and 17-year-olds the right to vote. I recognise and respect that there are differing views on that issue in the House. My party, the Liberal Democrat party, supports the principle of 16 and 17-year-olds participating in all elections. Our coalition partners do not, however. Views on both sides of the argument can be found on both sides of the Chamber.
In devolving the power to hold the referendum, however, we respect that this is a matter that should be debated and determined by the Scottish Parliament. Indeed, where the Scottish Government and Parliament have the power to hold referendums and elections already, they have chosen to allow some 16 and 17-year-olds to vote. However, the Scottish Parliament’s decision with respect to health board and crofting commission elections in Scotland has set no precedent for any elections for which the UK Government are responsible. I fully expect that the Scottish Government’s proposals will be debated robustly in the Scottish Parliament. However, let me be clear that it will be for the Scottish Government to make the case for this proposal in the Scottish Parliament and to deal with the issues that arise. Let me be equally clear that any decision taken by the Scottish Parliament for the referendum will not affect the voting age for parliamentary and local government elections in the United Kingdom. That remains the responsibility of this Parliament alone to determine.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
Have there been any practical discussions between the UK Government and the Scottish Government about the ability to implement this measure ahead of the referendum, given that there has been much talk of the inability to do so because of the state of the electoral register?
Michael Moore
That issue was discussed during the negotiations leading up to the Edinburgh agreement. However, as we made plain in the agreement and as I have repeated this afternoon, as we are devolving that power, it is for the Scottish Government to bring forward their proposals. That will require legislation and that legislation will be properly scrutinised by all of us and, in particular, by MSPs. That process is yet to get under way.
Mrs Laing
I am quite certain that my hon. Friend is right. If the First Minister was confident that a vast majority of people in Scotland would vote for Scotland to separate from the United Kingdom, as he wishes they would, he would not be worried about the Electoral Commission, or about spending, the question or anything else. It is because he knows that, actually, the reason he has his majority in the Scottish Parliament at present is because of the circumstances that pertained when people went to the polls at the last Scottish election. They were not voting for Scotland to separate from the United Kingdom; they were voting against the Labour party—but I shall not go down that route now, as you would not allow me to, Mr Deputy Speaker. We all know, however, that that is what—[Interruption.] They were voting against the Conservative party as well, I freely admit it, but that is not the point. The point is that the First Minister of Scotland knows that—he is a clever politician and he can analyse it. He knows the true intentions of the people of Scotland, and that is why he is afraid. That is why he is delaying, and that is why he is messing about with the franchise.
Mr McCann
The hon. Lady is wise not to stray too far from the subject, but party politics is important. Does she agree that members of the Scottish National party are trying to fuse the two issues of party politics and the constitution together, and are making the mistake of underestimating the Scottish people? The Scottish people know that a decision in a general election lasts for five years, while constitutional change will last for 300 years.
Mrs Laing
Yes, the hon. Gentleman sums it up absolutely perfectly. When people vote in any kind of election, the effect is for the short to medium term; when they vote in a referendum, it is for ever—people know that. Actually, I think it is because the First Minister does not underestimate the Scottish people that he is afraid, but he knows what they really are likely to do. We in this House certainly do not underestimate the Scottish people, but I still ask the question: why is the First Minister afraid of the Electoral Commission? If he is not afraid, he should come out now—so should the hon. Member for Moray, who did not do so this afternoon, and the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire who is now, happily, in his place—and tell us that the Scottish Parliament will adhere unequivocally to whatever the Electoral Commission has to say. Well, he is not going to, and the silence speaks for itself.
My next concern is timing. Every business person in Scotland and everyone who is concerned with business and economic prosperity in Scotland will say that the uncertainty of the present situation is damaging for the Scottish economy, and therefore for the Scottish people. It simply does not make sense, having spent decades and decades building up the Scottish National party as a machine with just one goal—to take Scotland out of the United Kingdom—that when at last that party is in a position to do so, it does not but hesitates and will not take action. Again I ask: what are SNP members afraid of? Are they really waiting for the anniversary of the battle of Bannockburn? Are they really expecting some sort of upsurge in nationalist feeling because we are going to have the Commonwealth games in Glasgow? Exactly the opposite happened in the Olympics. Was it not wonderful to see Team GB? Was it not fantastic to see people from Scotland, England and Wales all working together as a brilliant team in the Olympics? The games are not going to fuel nationalism; they will do exactly the opposite.
Iain Stewart
The hon. Gentleman is making a point about a continuing process of devolution and, in the future, it might fall within the competence of the Scottish Parliament to decide these things. That is a separate debate. But to make the decision unilaterally for one poll in what I believe is the self-interest of the party—whether that is misplaced or not is another question—is fundamentally wrong in my view.
Mr McCann
It might interest the hon. Gentleman to know that the Scottish Parliament does have control of other elections. It has control of local government elections and, in 2012, it decided not to extend the franchise to 16 and 17-year-olds. I fear he may be getting incorrect information from the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart).
Iain Stewart
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that helpful point of information. I return to the fundamental point. If the age of franchise is changed, it should apply to every election or none, and not to one poll. I do not have sufficient knowledge of the referendum on crofting, but I suspect that is not quite as significant an issue as the future of the United Kingdom. There should be consistency and the debate should be in general terms, not unilaterally for one poll.
My next concern is about the electorate. As my hon. Friend the Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) eloquently and powerfully explained, it is utterly wrong that an EU citizen temporarily living in Scotland should have a say on the future of the United Kingdom, but a Scot living in England does not. If I, for example, chose to live and work in Barcelona, I would not feel any right to take part in Catalonia’s future constitutional relationship with the rest of Spain. It would not cross my mind to exercise an opinion on that, so why should a Spaniard living in Edinburgh or wherever decide on the future of the United Kingdom?
Ian Murray
I am delighted by that intervention, because it shows the entire raison d’être of the current majority in the Scottish Parliament—a Parliament that was not designed for any one party to get a majority, as the right hon. Member for Gordon (Sir Malcolm Bruce) said. Now that the SNP has the trust of the Scottish people—who have given it a mandate through its majority in the Scottish Parliament—it is using all the power that has been bestowed on it to deliver constitutional change, rather than dealing not just with long-term unemployment, but with the absolutely shameful scenes of queues outside food banks such as in my constituency. I would rather that the entire effort of the civil service and the Scottish Parliament were focused on those issues, not just on dealing with the constitution. Many Members on the Labour Benches who talk to their constituents on the doorsteps realise that the issues out there are far wider than the constitution, which ranks very low down on the list of priorities of the people of Scotland.
The latest piece of devolution that we have in our hands today is the biggest question of all to be given to the Scottish people. Some have used the phrase, “a referendum made in Scotland”. This has to be a referendum not only made in Scotland, but by the Scottish people: not a referendum concocted by the First Minister and the SNP, not a referendum that is to deceive, and not a referendum that is unclear, ambiguous or a sham. That is why consensus in the Scottish Parliament is so important. In every major constitutional debate about Scotland in this House and in the other place under the previous Government, we sought consensus. Consensus is the way to take devolution work forward and to provide trust to the Scottish people.
The Select Committee on Scottish Affairs commented on that point in the report it produced last week, as the Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Mr Davidson), mentioned earlier. I will not give a précis of that speech for the SNP Members who staged a walk-out when he was speaking. The Committee’s report concluded that while the Scottish Parliament will have full powers to run the referendum following the passing of the section 30 order, it should not just force through decisions using the SNP’s parliamentary majority, and consensus should be sought to make the referendum fair, concise and conclusive.
I worry about that aspect. Can we trust—here is another Scottish word for the Hansard reporters—the sleekit First Minister and the SNP to do what is in the best interests of Scotland, rather than what is in the best interests of the First Minister and the SNP? I think the jury is well and truly out on that point. The track record of the SNP and the First Minister on a variety of issues in the past few months has cast doubt on their ability to be fair, transparent and honest about the referendum and the consequences for the future of my country. We have had the First Minister’s confusion about whether he received advice on Scotland’s membership of the European Union. We have had a flip-flop on what Scotland’s currency would be. Would it be the euro, the pound, or the groat? We have even had suggestions from SNP Members that we might even use the Chinese renminbi in Scotland. We have had the First Minister taking credit when unemployment in Scotland has been falling, but blaming everyone else when it has been going up.
Mr McCann
Does my hon. Friend share my concerns about the head of the Scottish civil service? It has been accused in the past by many people of being native and refusing to speak truth to power. Is it not a concern that, when it comes to the referendum, it will not have the courage to speak up against the First Minister who controls all?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We are in danger. We are debating the section 30 order, rather than the referendum. A lot of Members want to speak, so I do not want to tempt Members on to another subject.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
That must be the first time in the history of Parliament that there have been 21 minutes of non sequiturs in a single speech. The questions that were asked during the debate were not answered by the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) at any point. For the first 10 or 11 minutes, I did not know what was going on.
I support the order to devolve to the Scottish Parliament the ability to hold a referendum on whether Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom or becomes a separate nation. The most important words used by the Secretary of State at the start of the debate were that the referendum must be legal, fair and decisive. On the referendum’s legality and fairness, the House must recognise that once we pass the order today, that responsibility passes to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government. Most importantly, responsibility for the decisiveness element passes to the Scottish people. It is important that we recognise that.
Nobody can take away the SNP’s victory in 2011. In political terms it was truly stunning, but that victory was not about Scotland’s constitutional future. It was about party politics. Perhaps in this month of January, when we will celebrate our national bard, I should remind Members from the Scottish National party of some words from “Tam o’Shanter”:
“But pleasures are like poppies spread—
You seize the flow’r, its bloom is shed;
Or like the snow falls in the river—
A moment white—then melts for ever.”
That is what happens when fighting political campaigns. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose; but you do not stay in power for ever.
All that changed because the SNP changed its political colours. Previously it was a political chameleon, taking on the colour of the territory it was fighting in. In 2007, it changed to a centre-left agenda, and continued that in 2011. In a perfect storm the SNP won a truly outstanding result in the 2011 elections, winning an outright majority in the Scottish Parliament. The party that places a separate Scottish state in big letters and big bright lights—that is the reason for its existence—then received the holy grail, a route map to a referendum on Scottish separation. The SNP has won the right to a referendum and we should not begrudge it that right because of its victory in 2011.
This is an opportunity to put the issue to bed not just for a generation, as the First Minister of Scotland wants, but for many, many generations. We should bear it in mind that the last time the issue was decided was 306 years ago come this May. It is my overwhelming desire that the fruits of democracy are plucked from the tree that was given to us in the result in 2011. If it were up to me, we would do it much sooner than the proposed date of autumn 2014.
However, many speakers in the debate have made the important point that we all share some trepidation about the motivation of the people who will receive the power if the order is passed. Some people once mused that devolution would see off Scottish nationalism for ever. Others thought that the voting system in Scotland was so cleverly devised that no single party would ever seize control, and certainly not the Scottish National party. How wrong can you get? Those are possibly two of the worst conclusions reached since Michael Fish said in October 1987:
“Earlier on today, apparently, a woman rang the BBC and said she had heard that there was a hurricane on the way. Well, if you’re watching, don't worry, there isn’t.”
We have to remember that, until a few months ago, the SNP was still arguing that it had the power, without the amendment to schedule 5 going through this House, to hold a referendum. We also have to look at how it has used its power in the Scottish Parliament—this is a perfectly valid point—since it gained an overall majority in 2011. It has ruthlessly shut down debate in the Scottish Parliament and, unlike this place, where hon. and right hon. Members of whatever political hue are free and able to scrutinise the work of Government Departments on Select Committees, no such scrutiny is allowed in Scotland. For those reasons I am not filled with any great hope that the SNP will not manipulate or attempt to manipulate the referendum to favour its preferred result.
I want to raise a new issue, which is perhaps unusual at this point in the debate. I hope that you will bear with me, Mr Deputy Speaker, because it is an important issue about the civil service. I intervened earlier on my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray) and made the point that the mechanics will be handled by the civil service. Civil service powers have not been devolved to the Scottish Parliament, but they will play a crucial role.
I hope that the Under-Secretary will address two elements. First, questions have been asked about the permanent secretary and how he behaves towards the SNP Government. We have to be assured that the people at the top of the civil service in Scotland can give truth to power, and we must know that, if questions are raised about the legality or fairness of certain decisions, the civil service will stand up to its political masters. Secondly, there are 30,000 UK public servants in Scotland working for a range of different Government Departments. They have to have the ability to express their views in this debate and be free to speak. I would therefore welcome an assurance from the Under-Secretary that those individuals will have that freedom and that it will not impinge on their contracts of employment, under which they have to be impartial in their duties as civil servants. I hope that the Under-Secretary will touch on those two points when he responds to the debate.
In conclusion—I hope you recognise, Mr Deputy Speaker, that I have cut back my speech substantially—it is important for the public, particularly the Scottish public, to recognise that all that this order does is devolve the power for the next stage of this debate to the Scottish Parliament. The date, the actual question and the rules of the referendum, including the financial rules, which have been discussed by a number of hon. and right hon. Members, will all be decided by the Scottish Parliament, which is dominated by an SNP majority. The eyes of Scotland, the United Kingdom and, indeed, the world will be on them—do not let us down.
Referendum (Scotland)
Michael McCann Excerpts(11 years, 7 months ago)
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David Mundell
I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman. The consequences for the Scottish Government of ignoring the Electoral Commission with the people of Scotland would be significant, and would diminish their argument in the process. I have confidence in the ability of the people of Scotland to see through it.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
My daughter, Erin, turned 18 last week, so she will definitely have the vote—and she has already assured me that she will vote to remain in the United Kingdom, because she knows that we are better together. I remind the Minister that the SNP had the opportunity to extend the franchise in the 2012 local government elections, but chose not to do so. Is the Government’s confidence in ceding this territory in the negotiations based on the fact that it will be impossible to implement in the time scale envisaged?
David Mundell
I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s daughter’s support for Scotland remaining part of the United Kingdom. She reflects the views of many 16, 17 and, indeed, 18-year-olds, as demonstrated by the polls in Scotland. As the process continues, it will be important that we take forward the issues and debates in the Scottish Parliament and that the people of Scotland are engaged.
Oral Answers to Questions
Michael McCann Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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David Mundell
The Government are aware of those concerns, not just in Scotland, but throughout the rest of the United Kingdom, and the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), has reported to that effect. The Government will seek to do all they can to minimise the impact of such greening measures, if they are adopted.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
4. What assessment he has made of the effect on the Scottish economy of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games.
Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)
6. What recent assessment he has made of the effect on Scotland of the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic games.
Mr McCann
The Olympic and Paralympic games show how great sporting events can be used to regenerate large parts of our cities and their surrounding areas. Will the Secretary of State ensure that the lessons from London 2012 about regeneration and legacy are shared with the organisers of Glasgow’s Commonwealth games?
Michael Moore
The hon. Gentleman has focused on exactly the right issue—legacy. When congratulating all the Scots and others who participated in the Olympics and Paralympics, we are reminded of this summer’s great festival of sport and its fantastic outcomes. Apart from inspiring a generation—obviously, that is already under way—what matters is that we get regeneration in the regions around London and across the UK. I believe that the economic legacy will be strong, and I hope that the lessons from London will be learnt in Glasgow as well.
Supermarkets And Public Land (Scotland)
Michael McCann Excerpts(12 years, 2 months ago)
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Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Competition among supermarkets in our country is at times a cut-throat business. A desire for dominance and market share has meant that in different parts of the UK competing supermarket chains are knocking seven bells out of each other to secure new stores. That is all perfectly legitimate if no laws are being broken. However, if we add to the mix the ingredient of public land, we change the dynamic completely. Tactics felt to be legitimate in private sector supermarket wars cannot necessarily be used when the deal, or part of the deal, involves our public assets. My Adjournment debate is about a veritable supermarket car crash in my constituency involving public land, where it would appear that perspective and common sense were replaced by avarice and intransigence. The net result is a situation where an agency of Government charged with creating economic wealth became so detached and consumed by a flawed land sale that it prevented jobs from being created in my constituency.
In this debate I seek to draw attention to the unacceptable behaviour of Dawn Developments and Scottish Enterprise in a land deal in the heart of my constituency, the unacceptable behaviour of a senior Scottish Enterprise executive and the failures of the civil service to investigate my evidenced complaints. I have advised the Minister of the contents of my speech, and, as you mentioned, Mr Speaker, I have sought and taken advice from the Table Office and your office on what I intend to say to ensure that I remain inside the rules of parliamentary privilege.
Let me deal first with the nature of the deal constructed between Dawn Developments and Scottish Enterprise. The story begins in 2004. Scottish Enterprise—or, more precisely, the public—owns land in an industrial estate in East Kilbride in my constituency. The site was marketed and five bids were received, ranging in value from £2.5 million to £15 million. A bid from Dawn Developments was accepted which, to reach the agreed price, would have required the local authority to re-zone the land from industrial to retail use and grant permission for a supermarket development. The Dawn Developments bid was £15 million and it, in turn, expected to sell the land to Asda for a minimum of £22 million, with a cool £7 million profit.
Scottish Enterprise and Dawn Developments had no discussions with South Lanarkshire council on the viability of that proposal, nor did they submit a request for the site to be re-zoned for retail use through the established local plan process. Missives were concluded on 25 October 2007. Around that same time Alan MacDonald, the chairman of the Dawn Group, met South Lanarkshire council officials and was told that the site was not suitable for a supermarket development. Undeterred, Dawn Developments submitted a planning application in October 2008 for the creation of a class 1 retail food superstore. The application was processed and South Lanarkshire council’s planning department produced a recommendation that the application be refused, and those documents are a matter of public record.
With the prospect of a refusal in the offing, Dawn Developments decided to withdraw its application before the planning meeting took place. That presented Scottish Enterprise with an opportunity to withdraw from the deal, as the conditions stipulated that parties were released from their obligations once the planning process concluded. Despite this natural break, Scottish Enterprise inexplicably entered into a new deal with Dawn Developments on precisely the same terms.
In mid-2009, South Lanarkshire council received a planning application for a supermarket on a different site from a different consortium. A short time later, Dawn Developments resubmitted a planning application for the Scottish Enterprise site. The new application was identical to the application that had been processed and recommended for refusal. That marked the start of the supermarket war. The council approved the new, rival application and Dawn Developments withdrew its planning application from the local authority on the grounds of non-determination and then sent it to the Scottish Government.
The application was independently assessed by a Scottish Government reporter and again rejected. Simultaneously, Dawn Developments also legally challenged the rival supermarket proposals that had been cleared, accusing the local authority of behaving improperly. Scottish Enterprise, by dint of its relationship with Dawn Developments, was party to that legal move. The case was taken to the Court of Session in Scotland and lost.
These tactics would be immaterial to the public interest if they involved two private companies slugging it out for the right to build a supermarket in my constituency, but that is not the case when one side is partnered with Scotland’s economic development agency. Myriad questions arise. If this was such a good deal, why was the application not promoted by Scottish Enterprise to maximise the return for the taxpayer? Why did Scottish Enterprise not carry out an independent assessment of whether the site was suitable for a supermarket? Did Dawn Developments inform Scottish Enterprise that in private discussions with South Lanarkshire council it was told that the site was not suitable for a supermarket development? Why did Scottish Enterprise re-sign a deal that had already been through the planning process and recommended for rejection? Did Scottish Enterprise agree to a strategy which saw its partner, Dawn Developments, challenge the integrity of the well-respected local council and take the Scottish Government to court? All those questions remain unanswered.
The chief executive of Scottish Enterprise, Lena Wilson, appears to be oblivious to the fact that the organisation she commands is a partner in a deal that has cost taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds, has prevented a legitimate application that could create hundreds of jobs in my constituency from proceeding and, going back to the original deal, has secured no capital receipt for the taxpayer.
Let me now move to the actions of Scottish Enterprise executive Mr Stephen Gallagher. On 31 March 2010 Stephen Gallagher, the managing director of Scottish Enterprise Commercial, wrote to the chief executive of South Lanarkshire council, Archie Strang, offering a share of the capital receipt for the West Mains road site if planning permission for the supermarket was granted. In plain language, Stephen Gallagher offered South Lanarkshire council money to pass a planning application.
On 14 April 2010, Archie Strang wrote to Lena Wilson, Scottish Enterprise’s chief executive, making it clear that Stephen Gallagher’s actions could be perceived as an attempt to influence the outcome of a planning application. On 16 April 2010, Archie Strang received a response to his letter from Jim McFarlane, Scottish Enterprise managing director of operations, which stated:
“Can I first of all apologise unreservedly that this letter has been received by your Council at this present time? This simply should not have happened.”
It further transpired that Stephen Gallagher had also written to the council’s planning department on two separate occasions, objecting to the rival supermarket application and asking the council to favour the Dawn Developments-Scottish Enterprise deal. That led to Archie Strang writing again on 19 April 2010 to Lena Wilson, chief executive, about the letters the council had received from Stephen Gallagher dated 6 and 8 April, both of which objected to the rival supermarket bid.
Archie Strang said in his letter:
“My main purpose in writing to you...is to express concern at the apparent attempts by Scottish Enterprise to influence the Council to resist this application, and to support SE’s own proposal, with Dawn Developments, at West Mains Road. This concern arises from the comments made in the letter, dated 6 April, where the Council is effectively threatened with a legal challenge if it is not seen to have ‘properly addressed’ all issues associated with the Redwood Drive submission. This is wholly inappropriate as it appears to cast doubt on the Council’s ability to deal with planning applications in an impartial manner and questions the professionalism and integrity of planning officers.”
In a response dated 23 April 2010, Jim McFarlane stated:
“Until your letter of 19 April was received, I was not aware that further letters of 6 April and 8 April had been submitted to your Council. In my view these letters were ill advised and should not have been sent.”
I take the view that at best Stephen Gallagher’s behaviour should have been viewed as gross misconduct. I further take the view that the thread running through Mr Gallagher’s behaviour was consistent with a reckless attempt to allow the Dawn application to proceed, whatever the cost, but what beggars belief is that Mr Gallagher was not subjected to any disciplinary procedure by Scottish Enterprise and was allowed to leave the organisation with a taxpayer-funded severance package.
Once again Scottish Enterprise chief executive, Lena Wilson, has refused to answer any questions on the matter. For example, was Stephen Gallagher acting independently when he issued the official Scottish Enterprise letters dated 31 March, 6 April and 8 April? Did Scottish Enterprise’s management believe that Stephen Gallagher behaved in an acceptable fashion by offering cash to a local authority in return for a planning consent? If not, why was he not disciplined? What discussions took place between Stephen Gallagher and Dawn Developments on these matters? What internal investigations took place in Scottish Enterprise to determine Stephen Gallagher’s motivation for writing these letters? Why was Stephen Gallagher allowed to leave Scottish Enterprise with a substantial package funded by taxpayers?
That brings me to the final issue I want to address—the abject failure of the civil service to investigate my evidenced complaints. Having hit a communications brick wall at Scottish Enterprise I sought answers from what I concluded was the United Kingdom civil service chain of command. I first wrote to Sir Peter Housden, the permanent secretary to the Scottish Government, who, sadly, is fast building a reputation as the Scottish National party’s cheerleader in Scotland. I asked him to investigate these matters, but he refused to do so. He accepted Scottish Enterprise’s position without, it appears, carrying out even a perfunctory examination of the facts. Undeterred, I then wrote to his boss, Sir Gus O’Donnell. I assumed that the head of the civil service would not resile from his obligations to ensure that the service’s staff behave according to its code, which states that it must be accountable to the public and should meet the highest possible standards in all it does. Sadly, he did not. Instead, he merely wrote to the Scottish Government and replied to me reaffirming their original assessment of the matter. So, we have a procedure in which each complaint I have made has been rejected not on the basis of an investigation but because each part of the civil service hierarchy involved has reaffirmed their subordinate’s position. That simply is not good enough.
What does all this mean for my constituents? We know that the development opportunities that were available in 2004 when the land was first marketed no longer exist. The world has moved on. We also know that the decision of Scottish Enterprise to enter a joint venture in pursuit of a larger capital receipt was a blunder, and the resulting loss of perspective has dragged it into a totally inappropriate legal battle that has challenged the integrity of one of Scotland’s leading local authorities.
Mr Speaker, I sought your advice on the next matter that I wanted to raise and you agreed that the sub judice rule could be waived. I will heed your advice to be careful. I am grateful for your decision because it allows me to advise the House that Dawn Developments continues to take legal action against the Scottish Government’s decision to refuse planning permission at the publicly owned site. The madness continues but there is a train of thought that, given the collapse of every legal action thus far, the action is merely a device to put off the fateful day when Scottish Enterprise will be fully exposed on all these matters and held to account. The reputation of Scottish Enterprise has been tarnished by the actions of its partner Dawn Developments and it should apologise unreservedly for its lack of judgment on this matter and the damage it has done in my constituency, where the employment opportunities that would have been created for the many people who find themselves unemployed have not been created. I have not worked out whether what has happened is a result of conspiracy, incompetence or a combination of both, because the questions I have asked have not been answered. However, I do know that Stephen Gallagher’s behaviour was, without doubt, wholly unacceptable, and that Scottish Enterprise did nothing about it. The question I ask is, why?
In conclusion, I put the following points to the Minister. We all have a mutual interest in ensuring that each component part of the UK is economically successful, and I ask the Minister to enter into a dialogue with Scottish Ministers to ensure that steps are taken to allow a proper investigation to take place, to ensure that those responsible are held to account and to ensure that lessons are learned. Most importantly, an exit strategy should be devised for this whole sorry mess. Will the Minister also agree to engage with his ministerial colleagues in the Cabinet Office to examine new methods of working to ensure that an elected Member’s legitimate complaints are properly investigated and not simply paper-shuffled from one part of the civil service to another?
David Mundell
I am satisfied that the terms of the code are appropriate and are appropriately administered. As the hon. Gentleman knows, complaints regarding the Scottish Government and their agencies which have gone through those organisations’ own formal complaints procedure can also be raised with the Scottish public services ombudsman. It is for the public services ombudsman to deal with these matters, and it is right that the appropriate avenues are used. The Scotland Office does not have any locus in such matters and it would not be appropriate for us to take on any investigatory role in relation to these matters.
Mr McCann
Having served for a considerable time in my career as a full-time trade union official in the civil service, and having represented people who work in Scottish Enterprise, I know how the procedures operate. In the situation that I described, I made a formal complaint to the head of the civil service that someone, as I set out in my opening address, committed a serious disciplinary offence. No action was taken whatsoever, and he was allowed to leave the service with a handsome package paid for by the taxpayer. Those questions have never been answered. Therefore the question that I must put to the Minister is how am I to pursue such questions to a logical conclusion when all I got from the civil service was a brick wall constructed in front of me and my questions not being answered?
David Mundell
As I set out in my opening remarks, the hon. Gentleman has had the opportunity this evening to place all his concerns on the record. I undertake to ensure that a transcript of tonight’s proceedings is conveyed to all the relevant parties that have been discussed, including Scottish Enterprise, the Scottish Government, Sir Peter Housden, the Information Commissioner, and the current head of the civil service, Sir Bob Kerslake, so that everyone who has an interest in the matter can read the points that the hon. Gentleman has raised. However, the Scotland Office is unable to take forward further investigations. Indeed, it would be inappropriate to do so while a criminal investigation and civil court proceedings are taking place. As I have said, he has used the important opportunity of an Adjournment debate to place his concerns on the record.
Scotland Bill
Michael McCann Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Michael Moore
If the hon. Gentleman wishes to make his case in that way, people may or may not pay attention to him. What I am suggesting is based on Scotland’s size and where it is within the United Kingdom. I respect the fact that he and I fundamentally disagree about our vision for the future of Scotland. Those of us who are committed to the United Kingdom want a sustainable new financial basis on which Scotland is part of the Union. We believe that the Bill provides that basis, unlike the proposals that his party advocates.
The Bill and the Command Paper are not just about finance. The Calman commission examined the whole of the devolution arrangements and found that the division of policy responsibilities in the original Scotland Act worked well. It did, however, make recommendations to improve it further, which are reflected in the Bill. On justice, we will give the Scottish Parliament the power to legislate on air weapons, and give Scottish Ministers the power to set the drink-drive limit and a Scottish national speed limit. On health, we will give Scottish Ministers the power to decide which doctors in Scotland should be able to use drugs for the treatment of addiction. We will give the Scottish Government a formal role in key appointments to the BBC Trust and the Crown Estate.
Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)
On the question of health, will the Secretary of State explain why the power to make decisions on abortion in Scotland will not be devolved?
Michael Moore
If I may say so, that is a delicate subject, which was debated carefully in relation to the original Scotland Act. The decision of the House at the time was that the matter would not be included within that Act, and there was no such proposal brought forward by the Calman commission or in any representations that I have received subsequently.
We will give the Scottish Parliament power to administer its own elections, processes and procedures. There are also some areas where, for good and practical reasons, the Calman commission recommended re-reservation of powers to Westminster. These, too, are included in our Bill: for example, the regulation of health care professions and corporate insolvency.
Finally, we have taken the opportunity to address the question of the official title of the devolved Administration: “the Scottish Executive”, as it is currently styled. The term “Scottish Government” has now become broadly recognised. We propose to make that official.
Mrs Laing
It was; the right hon. Lady is right. As I said when I paid tribute to Donald Dewar a moment ago, that was not what I said in 1997 and 1998. The position of the Conservative party at that point was to oppose devolution. Of course it was; it is no secret. I for one thought that that was the best settlement for Scotland. I appreciate, however, that the Scottish Parliament has grown in stature and become an important part of the lives of the people of Scotland. It is there, it performs an important duty and it defends the law of Scotland—the right hon. Lady will agree that I always defend that. The Scottish Parliament performs an important function in our new constitutional settlement in the United Kingdom.
Although I would originally have preferred to have seen an enormous amount of taxpayers’ money saved by our not setting up the Scottish Parliament, I now appreciate—I speak only for myself, not for my party—that it performs an important duty. As I have said for more than 12 years, however, it is essential that the constitutional settlement be improved. Donald Dewar, to whom I am still in the middle of paying tribute, worked for decades to achieve the Parliament and I am sure that all hon. Members will agree how sad it is that he did not live to see the complete fruition of his labours. Had he done so and remained the First Minister for a longer term, I believe the standing and status of the Scottish Parliament would have grown more quickly. However, it is where it is now.
Mr McCann
I might not agree with the hon. Lady’s view of the economic situation, but does she share my view that the difference between the parties in this House that back the Union and those on the nationalist Benches is that we want to finesse the devolution settlement to make it better, while they see this as a foot in the door to move further towards independence?