Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill (Twenty-ninth sitting)

Marie Tidball Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 25th March 2025 Public Bill Committees

This amendment is consequential on NC14.

[Dr Marie Tidball (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 518, in clause 40, page 23, line 24, at end insert—

“‘coercion’ means behaviour of a controlling or threatening character, including but not limited to emotional or financial control, or improper interference with another person’s decision-making autonomy, which is exerted by a person or organisation, with the intention of inducing that other person to make the relevant declarations or to self-administer an approved substance under this Act against that other person’s will (and ‘coerced’ is to be read accordingly);”.

This amendment provides a definition of coercion for the purposes of the Act. The terminology of “person” and “another person” reflects that used in clause 26.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment (b) to amendment 518, after “person or organisation,” insert

“including where the person is in an intimate or family relationship with that other person,”.

This would include the risk of coercion in intimate and family relationships in the definition provided by Amendment 518.

Amendment (a) to amendment 518, leave out

“, with the intention of inducing that other person to make the relevant declarations or to self-administer an approved substance under this Act against that other person’s will”.

Amendment 519, in clause 40, page 23, line 27, at end insert—

“‘dishonesty’ means not being truthful, or not acting in good faith;”.

This amendment provides a definition of dishonesty for the purposes of the Act. The terminology of “person” and “another person” reflects that used in clause 26.

Amendment 520, in clause 40, page 23, line 37, at end insert—

“‘pressure” means an act or acts, or communication, or behaviour, constituting an improper interference with another person’s decision-making autonomy, which is exerted by a person or organisation, with the intention of inducing that other person to make the relevant declarations or to self-administer an approved substance under this Act against that other person’s will.”

This amendment provides a definition of pressure for the purposes of the Act. The terminology of “person” and “another person” reflects that used in clause 26.

Amendment (b) to amendment 520, after “person or organisation,” insert

“including where the person is in an intimate or family relationship with that other person,”.

This would include the risk of pressure in intimate and family relationships in the definition provided by Amendment 520.

Amendment (a) to amendment 520, leave out

“, with the intention of inducing that other person to make the relevant declarations or to self-administer an approved substance under this Act against that other person’s will”.

[Dr Tidball]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Roger. I rise to speak to amendments 518 to 520, which respectively provide definitions of coercion, dishonesty and pressure for the purposes of the Bill.

In my speech on Second Reading, I said I would want to ensure that the final stages of the Bill define dishonesty, coercion and pressure. I have sketched out the definitions based on oral evidence given to the Committee, and am grateful for the extremely helpful input from Laura Hoyano and Max Hill, after the witness sessions, in establishing the content and parameters of the definitions. We have spent a considerable amount of time in Committee discussing the safeguards against coercion, for example, but I felt we had not spent much time discussing the content and parameters of the concepts. Although I will not be press the amendments to a vote, for reasons I will outline, it is important to ensure that our discussions of the concepts are on the public record.

I will not press the amendments to a vote as I am convinced, after discussions with legal colleagues and having considered the issues very carefully, that the risks of setting the parameters on the face of the Bill are too great. It would risk ossifying the courts rather than ensuring that they use the full parameters of the concepts to encompass scenarios for the offences under clause 26 in circumstances that the Committee may not currently conceive of. In other words, I am convinced that to limit the definitions of the concepts in statute would create the risk of excluding criminal behaviour where the threshold of the offence would otherwise be met under common law.

I believe that instead, mirroring the approach to coercion taken in the Serious Crime Act 2015—a point I will return to—the Ministry of Justice must draw up details of the concepts and examples of their application in the context of the offences set out in clause 26. Doing so will be helpful for the medical practitioners, along with other professionals, who use the Bill if it becomes law, and in the training to be provided for them under the Bill to enable medical practitioners to evaluate whether each patient has been subjected to coercion, pressure or dishonesty by another person in applying for assisted dying.

In criminal law, definitions of coercion, dishonesty and pressure are not placed on a statutory footing. First, on dishonesty, Ivey v. Genting Casinos is the lead case because there is no statutory definition of dishonesty. The case provides not a definition but a two-stage test. The courts are familiar with the legal elements of dishonesty from case law: for a long time the part-subjective and part-objective Ghosh test was applied. That was amended in 2020 by the Supreme Court in the Ivey case, which disapproved the former test but retained the question: “Was his or her conduct dishonest by the standards of an ordinary decent person?”

Similarly, “pressure” does not have a statutory definition in criminal law, but essentially means forcing someone to do something against their will. Having looked at this issue carefully, I am satisfied that the wording in clause 26 is enough to signal to anyone involved in a relevant application to bring a criminal prosecution what they should look for in terms of acts and intent. The common law is thus well placed to further develop the concepts in the context of the offences set out in clause 26.

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[Dr Tidball]

Clause 26 puts in place the elements of the offences under the Bill. It is right that it does that and draws the parameters very tightly and firmly. Under criminal law, those concepts are defined nowhere else on the face of a statute. My severe concern, having listened to the Committee and its worries about concepts such as coercion, is that we risk restricting our understanding of the concepts too tightly, and therefore excluding cases of the kinds that we want to include. By leaving them in the Bill but not defining them, we enable the common law courts to interpret the facts on the basis of the lives of the real people that come before them. I want to make sure that, where it is right and proper that those courts interpret the law on the basis of those facts, they are able to do so and are not restricted by too limited a definition in the Bill. I want to ensure that more, not fewer, cases can be encompassed.

As I said in my speech, we have talked about these concepts in quite an abstract sense. I wanted us to ground that in the reality of what we might want guidance and further advice on those concepts to look like. That would follow the convention, as I have said already, in other areas of the law, such as domestic abuse, where the primary legislation does not define the concepts but secondary legislation provides further details and real-life examples for practitioners and the courts.

[Naz Shah]

I thank my hon. Friend for her detailed explanation. She makes sense—I would not want to restrict that either. Perhaps she is entirely correct—no doubt she has researched it well—but clause 26 mentions coercion and pressure. It says all of that on the face of the Bill. My hon. Friend wants to leave it in that context—

“by dishonesty, coercion and pressure, induces another person to self-administer an approved substance”,

which is repeated in clause 26(1) and (2). I would still be minded to put at least something further in the Bill. I am not sure that it would restrict us; it would just be helpful. If my hon. Friend does not press the amendment to a vote, would the Ministers accept that there will be statutory guidance on that? I do not know whether the Ministers can respond now or want to wait until they sum up. I am happy to give way. They are not going to bite; that is fine.

Just for the record, I want to talk through the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft and why she and I feel that they are important. Amendment 518 would put in the Bill a definition of “coercion”. Amendment 520 would do the same for “pressure”. Those amendments give welcome clarity to the Bill on two important issues. Where they talk about a “person or organisation” engaging in coercion or pressure, respectively, my hon. Friend’s amendments would have added,

“including where the person is in an intimate or family relationship with that other person”.

That would make sure that we covered that.

[Dr Tidball]

I thank my hon. Friend for her speech. I think we are united in principle, but perhaps take different views on the best way to ensure that this happens in practice. To give an example, if the word “intimate” is used in those circumstances, were a court to interpret it, it might include a husband, wife or partner, but not a brother, sister or parent. So already, in using that one word, we have potentially created further risks. By defining it, in the circumstances set out by my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft, we are excluding a relationship that we would want the court to look at, to weigh and judge whether there was potential dishonesty, coercion or pressure by that person, in that relationship with the person seeking assistance. I give that as just one example of the risk created by adding language, rather than leaving it more broadly for a court to interpret on the basis of the facts of the case.

[Naz Shah]

I will re-read it. It is,

“including where the person is in an intimate or family relationship with that other person”.

The “family relationship”, I think, means that it is extended to siblings. That was my interpretation. Last week, or the week before, we spoke extensively about suicide, and women in particular. The number of women who have committed suicide, particularly following domestic violence, has increased. Indeed, it was on the front page of The Guardian today. It is defined by our lawmakers as intimate partner violence, but it could be other violence. In those cases, as a Government and as lawmakers, we do define those women who are killed by members of their family or intimate partners. Our Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls reads out that list.

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[Dr Tidball]

Alex Ruck Keene’s sage words to me were that the problem with putting in more words is that it creates an opportunity for lawyers to find loopholes. In the example that the hon. Lady has just given, when we are talking about family relationships, I think we would all agree that, having thoroughly considered the evidence in this Committee, we do not want any interpretation of the offences set out in section 26 to exclude, for example, carer relationships. That is not a family member, but a carer might give close personal care to someone with a terminal illness. We do not want the courts to think that it was the parliamentary intention of the Committee to delimit it to only intimate or family relationships. There is a risk that the more we narrow it by example, rather than leaving the term broad, as it is currently—“person”—we risk delimiting it too far. We do not want to exclude a situation involving an offence that we hope would be brought before the courts for prosecution.

[Naz Shah]

I thank my hon. Friend for her explanation, which was very good. I do not have time to go away and think more about it from a legal perspective, because I have only just heard her arguments, but at the moment I absolutely agree.

As for my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft, I thank her for her attempt to explain. She has years of experience of working in the field. She tabled that amendment in response to the amendment from my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge, with the best of intentions and to strengthen the legislation. I will look at it, and I may even return to it during the debate.

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[Rebecca Paul]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I rise to speak about amendments 518 and 520. As we have said, it is important that we understand what coercion means in a legal sense, and I am really grateful to the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge for trying to set that out, because it is not an easy task. Like her, I am concerned that defining it in this way may make it harder to prove coercion and may undermine the safeguards in the Bill.

Under the amendments, the assessing doctors and the panel are meant to look not just for evidence of coercion but for evidence of intent to induce assisted suicide, and they will have to show that the applicant is requesting assisted suicide against their will. That could make the law powerless against many kinds of behaviour that we want to prohibit.

To start with the point about intent, coercion and pressure take many forms, and they do not always involve a clear intent. Amendment (b) to amendment 518 and amendment (b) to amendment 520, in the name of the hon. Member for Lowestoft, very reasonably draw attention to family relationships. On Second Reading, the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) said:

“people do not generally write letters to sick relatives urging them to consider assisted suicide and then put those letters on file. Coercion in the family context can be about not what you say but what you do not say—the long, meaningful pause.”—[Official Report, 29 November 2024; Vol. 757, c. 1030.]

But even in more blatant cases, we cannot necessarily prove intent directed towards assisted suicide. Sue Smith, a clinical psychologist, said in written evidence that coercive control often ramps up when the abused partner receives a cancer diagnosis:

“The seriousness of the cancer diagnosis may be systematically and actively denied or minimised, claims can be made by the male partner that she is attention seeking, or she is accused of making up the effects of treatment, and can be left isolated and alone when in physical need…a woman learns to doubt her reality and experience, and is extremely isolated. This can lead to heightened anxiety, hopelessness and helplessness, and abject despair, which can lead to a person wishing they were dead.”

That could be seen as coercion towards assisted suicide, but in that scenario does the abusive partner demonstrate clear intent? I am not sure the doctor or panel could demonstrate that in that instance, especially as they need to be satisfied only on the balance of probabilities that there is no coercion. If the panel think that there is a 45% chance that there is intent, but no more than that, they have to grant the application.

The harrowing story of Ryan Wellings and Kiena Dawes shows that even when coercion can be proved, proving that an abuser intends someone else’s suicide is a completely different matter. After Kiena Dawes took her own life, Wellings was convicted of coercive control and assault. The judge told him:

“from May 2020 until her death you abused, assaulted, exploited, controlled and demeaned her. When she died it is clear that she had begun to believe your lies to the effect that she was deranged, physically disgusting, friendless, worthless and an unfit mother. You had persuaded her that she had no one to turn to.”

Before her death, Dawes wrote a note saying, “Ryan Wellings killed me.” Although he was convicted on other counts, Wellings was acquitted of manslaughter. That demonstrates that coercive control, even if it is followed by suicide, does not always mean that intent can be demonstrated. It is really tricky.

Similarly, people may pressurise a relative without intending to override their will. The barrister Ruth Hughes KC, who has been quoted before, said:

“It is surprisingly easy for a relative, whilst completing a variation on ‘the classic asset strip’, to persuade themselves that they are actually acting in their aunt Dorothy’s best interests or in accordance with her wishes”.

In other words, someone can pressurise a relative into assisted suicide without intending to. Again, including intent here could actually muddy the waters.

I have a similar concern about the phrase

“against that other person’s will”.

That sounds very straightforward, but in practice it can be much less clear. Part of the effect of coercion is that people lose confidence in their own will and adopt that of others. In written evidence, many frontline workers pointed out that coercion does not always clearly appear as someone acting against their will. Janet Reiss, a specialist doctor in palliative care in Wolverhampton, says patients will not

“even necessarily be aware of being coerced”.

Dr Jennifer Hardes Dvorak, a senior lecturer at Canterbury Christ Church University specialising in medical law, states that the Bill

“does not consider how people internalise feelings of coercion and…act on this.”

If someone has internalised a feeling that they would be better off dead, that may be their will, even if we hope we could change it.

Anni Donaldson, a domestic abuse expert at the University of Strathclyde, said:

“Decades of work examining the impact of coercive and controlling behaviour has shown that ‘coercive control’ is not merely persuasion, but a complete change in the perspective of the victim so that she truly believes that she is worthless, a burden to her partner or wider family, and would not be missed should she die…Women are regularly humiliated, demeaned, and told they would be ‘better off dead’, or, that they are a ‘useless mother’, or that the children would be better off without them. This abuse erodes women’s confidence, autonomy, and self-esteem. Cut off from support, women often come to believe these lies, fearing reprisals from their partner if they report the abuse, many choose to tell no one. This long term, relentless, dehumanising process can result in a woman believing that she is ‘disposable’.”

Similarly, the writer and campaigner Sarah Ditum warns that the Bill may not protect

“the patient who, through lengthy cruelty and coercion from a partner or carer, becomes genuinely convinced that she (or sometimes he) is a burden who would be better off dead. Such a person may even refuse treatment, causing a curable disease to become terminal and placing them within the purview of the bill.”

So we might not believe that assisted suicide is in someone’s best interests, but there is no best interest test in the Bill or the amendments—just a reference to the person’s will. If a victim of coercive control truly believes they ought to die, it is not clear how the doctor or the panel can refuse their application, unless coercion can actually be proved, and proving it is not always easy, as we have just discussed.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Wiltshire has tabled amendments to remove the phrase

“against that other person’s will”.

Obviously, that is all academic now, as we are not pressing the amendment to a vote, but I would support doing that, because that phrase does more to narrow the definition than anything else.

On another point, amendments 518 and 520 refer to pressure and coercion from organisations. I do not know exactly what the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge has in mind with that. I guess an example might be the cases we have heard about in other jurisdictions where a health insurer or provider tells someone that they cannot fund a treatment but can fund assisted dying options. It could be that the hon. Lady had other things in mind there. That would possibly count as pressure under some circumstances, but it would be very hard to show that there was intent on the part of the organisation. It is not clear that the amendments help us to identify and avoid coercion and pressure in that sense.

Before I finish, I would like to point out something else that might be missing from the amendments: it is my favourite topic, the question of undue influence—my apologies to the Justice Minister, because I know we have gone over it a few times.

[Dr Tidball]

Just to put this one to bed, which is where we all need to go at this stage, I did seek advice from those that have worked in this field, and it is not a concept used commonly in the criminal law. It is instead used in the law of equity and would not be as relevant in this context. There were other, sharper elements that could make up this concept of coercion that were better and more well understood in the context of the criminal law.

[Rebecca Paul]

I thank the hon. Lady for that clarification of the information she has been given.

We have gone over the question of undue influence a few times. I promise I will not talk about it for much longer, but it is relevant, which is why I keep raising it. In a judgment that my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull West and Shirley has previously mentioned, Lord Nicholls said that undue influence includes two things. The first is

“overt acts of improper pressure or coercion”.

The second is a kind of influence that

“arises out of a relationship between two persons where one has acquired over another a measure of influence, or ascendancy, of which the ascendant person then takes unfair advantage...The influence one person has over another provides scope for misuse without any specific overt acts of persuasion. The relationship between two individuals may be such that, without more, one of them is disposed to agree a course of action proposed by the other.”

That definition suggests something broader than what is described in amendments 518 and 520, but I take the point that the hon. Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge has just clarified. The amendments suggest that somebody will actively interfere with someone else’s “decision-making autonomy” and have an intention to induce them to do something. But Lord Nicolls’s definition of undue influence is much less dramatic; it just identifies a relationship where one person’s view holds a lot of sway. For the last time—I promise—I would be grateful for the Minister’s view on that. I am sure she will talk through that point and advise on the clarification the hon. Lady has just given.

In conclusion, the amendments are completely well intended. It is helpful that the hon. Lady tabled them and that we have had this debate, and I am grateful to her for that. However, I am inclined to think that they would narrow the definition too much. My preference would be to remain with what we have, subject to the points I have raised many times on undue influence.

[Dr Tidball]

Does the hon. Member agree that it is helpful to have it on record that we have evaluated these concepts from all sides, but determined that putting them in the Bill is not the right thing to do and would be too restrictive at this point?

[Rebecca Paul]

I would not choose to have this specific definition in the Bill. There may well be another definition that I would be more comfortable with, so I cannot rule that out. However, I completely agree with the hon. Lady that this has been a helpful debate, and I really appreciate her tabling the amendments so that we could have it.

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[Kim Leadbeater]

It is fair to say that we have had a very valuable discussion on the matters relating to these amendments. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge for the considerable amount of hard work that she has put into researching these issues. As always, her approach has been extremely thorough and diligent.

I have been on my own journey regarding the need or otherwise to place definitions in the Bill, but having undertaken the valuable discussions we have had through this Committee—I think this genuinely has been the Committee at its best—along with the expert legal input and advice that my hon. Friend and the Committee have had, I think we are in the right place to enable the courts to ensure that the law is as expansive as possible and to ensure that we do not create a scenario in which certain behaviours from those with mal-intent in relation to the Bill are excluded from its scope. I agree that we should allow the courts to do their job with the broadest possible powers to prosecute offences under the Bill. I echo my hon. Friend’s comments to the Minister about the need for the inclusion of details about these issues in guidance and codes of practice, but I thank the Committee for an extremely useful and productive discussion.

[Dr Tidball]

I am grateful for the thorough and thoughtful discussion that we have had from Members on both sides of the Committee Room. I am pleased and reassured that we have that discussion on record, so that those looking at the work that we have done in this Committee will understand the depths and levels at which we have thought about these important concepts in this space and the extent to which we have challenged and checked Ministers in making sure that they understand our concern about these provisions being properly put in place. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft for her important input, which I hope will be reflected in the training.

I am glad that we have come this far and that we have a level of unanimity across both sides of the Committee Room. That is a nice point to reach as the Committee comes towards the end of its journey, and it reflects the essence and the intention that were so evident on Second Reading. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

[Kim Leadbeater]

I beg to move amendment 392, in clause 40, page 23, line 27, at end insert—

“‘first assessment’ has the same meaning as in section 7;

‘first declaration’ has the same meaning as in section 5;”.

This is a drafting change.

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Brought up, and read the First time.

[Dr Tidball]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

This is the final new clause of the Committee. As I said in support of new clause 25 and associated amendments last week, I want to strengthen the voice of disabled people in the Bill. New clause 35 would require the voluntary assisted dying commissioner to establish a disability advisory board that would report annually on the implementation and impact of the Act on disabled people. The new clause has been designed to ensure that disabled people have a voice at the heart of the Bill and an ongoing role in monitoring its impact.

The disability advisory board model reflects a structure that was used at the Department of Health to implement the Autism Act 2009 and monitor the implementation of its provisions, statutory guidance and strategy. It was a highly effective body. Including a disability advisory board structure on the face of the Bill would entrench the board in the work of the commission, enabling a long-term and iterative structure in which disabled people could report on the reality of the impact of the Bill on disabled people across this country.

This reflects comments made by Dan Scorer of Mencap in oral evidence. He said that if the Bill was passed,

“We would want to see strong representation from patient groups…as well as from people who have been involved in the process, such as family members, advocates and clinicians, to make sure that if serious issues are being raised, they can be picked up early and addressed.”––[Official Report, Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 30 January 2025; c. 280-81, Q367.]

The board must therefore consist of

“(a) people who have a disability under the Equality Act 2010,

(b) representatives from disabled people’s organisations, and

(c) other such persons or organisations as the Commissioner considers relevant to the impact of the Act on disabled people.”

The commissioner would, within six months of being appointed, have to appoint a programme board to advise on the implementation of the Bill, and annually thereafter report on the impact of the Bill’s operation on disabled people.

The clause reflects the learning of Dr Greg Mewett, the specialist palliative care physician from Australia who gave oral evidence to the Committee about the Australian implementation taskforce, which includes a strong disability advocate. My new clause would go further, by including a rigorous reporting process that requires the advisory board to report to the Secretary of State and the commissioner within six months of the commissioner being appointed, and annually thereafter. It also provides:

“The Secretary of State must, within three months of receipt of any report under subsection (3), lay the report before both Houses of Parliament.”

In the oral evidence sessions, I asked witnesses for their views on what structures or mechanisms could work to facilitate the opportunity to hear the voices of disabled people in monitoring the implementation and impact of the Bill were it to pass through Parliament. Dr Miro Griffiths said:

“I think there needs to be further robust action around how to collect data and allow it to be analysed, to see the trends that are occurring in why people are pursuing this option and how that may play into broader political and socioeconomic issues, such as a lack of services elsewhere or frustrations for disabled people and their families in trying to access particular services…I would therefore encourage their representation on any form of advisory council. I would also request that disability studies scholars, who are often left out of the discourse around disability policy, are part of any form of mechanism to advise or scrutinise.”––[Official Report, Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 29 January 2025; c. 145, Q183.]

Subsection (2)(b) and (c) would provide for this.

Professor Tom Shakespeare corroborated the benefits of such an advisory board, calling it a “very good idea.” Importantly, Fazilet Hadi, from Disability Rights UK, stated:

“Should the Bill go through, it would be good to see a monitoring mechanism. I cannot say what that should be, but it would be good to see disabled people shape it. Some 45% of older people are disabled people, so disabled people are going to be very affected by the Bill.”

Poignantly, she went on:

“It is often our experience that we are the last people who are spoken to; maybe that is what is behind the question. We should of course be at the table now in respect of whatever mechanisms, and in the shaping of any implementation, should the Bill be passed.”––[Official Report, Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 29 January 2025; c. 175, Q227.]

There is, and there should be, nothing about us without us.

As a disabled Member of Parliament, I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Spen Valley for inviting me to sit on this Committee. Through this new clause and my earlier new clause 25, I have worked hard to put together a structure that ensures that disabled people are firmly at the table in the process of monitoring the implementation and impact of the Bill. I urge members of the Committee to support new clause 35.

[Jack Abbott]

At this point, I pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Penistone and Stocksbridge and for Bexleyheath and Crayford. They have consistently tabled really important amendments that are very close to my heart, measurably improving the Bill.

I am briefly speaking in favour of new clause 35. We have had a number of good amendments about ensuring proper representation for vulnerable people during the process. We have also had a lot of discussion about the very important need to regularly monitor and report back on the Bill. This new clause brings all this together, ensuring that there is real oversight, with real thrust and a point to it. It is not good enough just to report back some statistics; the question is what we do with them. Having this sort of panel, with expertise and life experience, would be a significant step forward for people with disabilities, learning needs and anything else that might be included.

Once again, I pay tribute to my hon. Friends for this work. I am fully supportive of the new clause.