Representation of the People (Young People’s Enfranchisement) Bill

Luke Graham Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 11th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Luke Graham (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Con)]

I am conscious that we are short of time, although we should be having a full and comprehensive parliamentary debate on this matter. I welcome the cross-party support on this issue. I have worked with colleagues across the House on it, and I stand in support of the Bill today. This is not about party politics; it is about civic engagement. I support the Bill not because I am under some misguided belief that a 16 or 17-year-old would still consider me to be a young person but because of the evidence provided by the participation of 16 and 17-year-olds in the Scottish referendum and the subsequent Holyrood and local elections. So, what is that evidence? For anyone who was involved in the referendum in 2014, it was a pretty intense political process. One highlight of the campaign was going to the Hydro in Glasgow for a debate in which 16 and 17-year-olds came up with some of the most insightful and well-informed questions for our political leaders on one of the most important constitutional issues for our country.

This is not just about the standard of debate, however. The figures back this up as well. The Electoral Commission report on the 2014 referendum showed that 75% of 16 and 17-year-olds voted in the referendum, and the commission’s report on the subsequent Holyrood election showed that 78% of 16 to 17-year-olds voted in that election. That is higher than the figure for the 18 to 35-year-olds. I can reassure my Conservative colleagues that those 16 to 17-year-olds showed a greater propensity to vote Conservative than the 18-to-35s, so there are no worries about the direction of travel.

One issue that has been raised is that of demand. Do 16 and 17-year-olds actually want the vote? Although Scotland has led the way, the NUS should also be applauded for the campaign it has been running in colleges up and down the country to assess the level of support for voting at 16 and 17. It has run a vibrant and proactive campaign.

[Karen Lee]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that voting is an entirely positive thing, whereas drinking, smoking and gambling really cannot be seen in the same light?

[Luke Graham]

I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. Voting is an incredibly positive engagement, although I have to say that I have derived some pleasure from drinking in the past.

[Alex Chalk]

On the important issue of civic engagement, does my hon. Friend think that 16-year-olds should be able to sit in judgment on their fellow citizens on a jury?

[Luke Graham]

That is a very good point, and it is one that we should certainly review.

[Alex Chalk]

Yes or no?

[Luke Graham]

If we are allowing 16-year-olds to vote and be part of the political process, yes, they should be part of the judicial process as well.

We have talked a lot about consistency today, and I want to turn to whether there is a difference between allowing 16-year-olds to vote and allowing them to drink, to smoke or to use sunbeds, which is a question that has been raised in Wales. The only thing that is consistent about the age-related laws in this country is their inconsistency. In pretty much every aspect of our age-related laws, we choose different levels at which to give people access. For a long time, people could vote at 18 but they could become an MP only at 21. That was changed in 2006. I see no reason why we should not have differentiated laws, allowing people to vote at 16 and run for office at 18. That is entirely consistent with saying that we want civic engagement. People would be allowed to vote before taking the next step of having the responsibility of representing 75,000-plus people.

[James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that if we were to be completely consistent, we would have to raise the age of consent? In my view, that would lead to the creation of an awful lot of criminals. As the hon. Member for Hove (Peter Kyle) rightly said, in a cross-party spirit, each of these age limits has to be based on its own individual merits.

[Luke Graham]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend. We do not need to have consistency right across the board. These different age-related laws are quite separate and they are not contingent on one another. We should not allow them to muddy the waters and clog up this debate.

[Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes a perfectly valid point about the appropriate voting age, and I question whether 16 is the right one. I have just left a meeting with a bunch of schoolchildren in the education centre, where they were asking me the most sophisticated questions, some of which—dare I say it?—were far more sophisticated than the questions I get from their parents—[Interruption] —much as I respect the constituents of Mid Worcestershire, of course! I may have to dig myself carefully out of that one. My point is that there are some incredibly sophisticated children in this country, and they can be engaged in politics, but whether they should vote is a different question.

[Luke Graham]

As my hon. Friend’s point proves, age and wisdom do not necessarily go hand in hand—[Laughter.] The UK Youth Parliament and Scottish Youth Parliament representatives from my constituency have strongly advocated for votes at 16 and 17, and I applaud them for their representations. I am fortunate to have visited schools across my constituency, from Morrison’s Academy to Lornshill Academy, and the support for votes at 16 and 17 is there in the schools. Young people are engaged with the debate, and they are not only engaging within their age group, but challenging their parents and grandparents. We have a richer democratic discourse as a result.

[Hugh Gaffney (Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) (Lab)]

As a new MP visiting schools, I know that 16 to 18-year-olds are angry that they are not getting a vote. The election last year could mean no vote for five years, which has changed the age gap. These kids are upset, and I fully support the hon. Gentleman.

[Luke Graham]

I could not agree more. Colleagues across the House need to remember that today’s 16-year-olds will be reaching 20 come the next election, and they will probably have a bearing on our own electoral successes.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Another lesson that can be learned from Scotland is how the Scottish Parliament takes forward private Members’ Bills. This is the second Bill on votes at 16 this Session that is in danger of being talked out. The reality is that if such a proposal had the same amount of support in the Scottish Parliament as it clearly does here, it would go through because Holyrood’s system allows it. We need democratic reform, votes at 16 and to reform this corrupt, unfair private Member’s Bill system.

[Luke Graham]

The hon. Gentleman makes a point about the Scottish Parliament, but at the risk of getting slightly party political, I would draw his attention to the fact only one such piece of legislation was put before the Scottish Parliament in 2016-17, so its legislative example is not exactly leading the way. I will not take lectures on that from him in this place.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Whatever Members may think about the current private Member’s Bill system, does my hon. Friend agree that the suggestion that it is somehow corrupt is wholly reprehensible?

[Luke Graham]

rose—

[Patrick Grady]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I believe that the word “cruel” has been used in the past because the system can be so unfair on Members, but I withdraw the word “corrupt”.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has made his point of order. I did not like the use of the word “corrupt”, but I appreciate that he was not calling any Member corrupt, so I did not call him to order. He has recognised that moderation is best, and I thank him for his point of order.

[Luke Graham]

Returning to votes at 16 and 17, I was about to talk about the risk of having different standards across the United Kingdom, which should not be the case. As a base minimum, we should allow 16 and 17-year-olds in England to vote in their local elections, as they can in Scotland.

Education was present in the previous private Member’s Bill on this topic, but it is absent from this one, so I want to highlight the importance of civic engagement across the UK and to tackle those who say that 16 and 17-year-olds do not have the right level of education or world experience to take part in a democratic process.

[Danielle Rowley]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his generosity in giving way and for his support. As a fellow Scottish Member, does he agree that young people in our constituencies often feel more disconnected from their MP than from their councillors or MSP because they can vote for them?

[Luke Graham]

As a fellow Unionist, I think that is something we constantly need to combat. We have to remember that Westminster is Scotland’s Parliament, too. As MPs, it is incumbent on us to go into schools to make sure we are just as accessible as many MSPs or local councillors.

[Jim McMahon (Oldham West and Royton) (Lab/Co-op)]

That is the point, is it not? If young people in Scotland already have the right to vote and if young people in Wales will soon have the right to vote, and if we believe in a United Kingdom, it is right that we have a united democracy in the United Kingdom, too.

--- Later in debate ---

[Luke Graham]

I could not agree more. As a basic minimum, we should make sure everyone can participate in local elections at 16 and 17.

On civic engagement, the previous private Member’s Bill, the Representation of the People (Young People’s Enfranchisement and Education) Bill, would have specifically provided for constitutional education across the United Kingdom. Obviously, education is devolved, so the exact delivery of such education is at the discretion of the devolved Administrations, but the content should be uniform across the United Kingdom.

I remind the House again that the United Kingdom would not exist without a Scottish king. The political Union that sees the unicorn side by side with the lion, and the thistle, the rose and the harp we see in every cornice and on every bit of woodwork in this building, is a reminder that this is Scotland’s Parliament, England’s Parliament, Wales’s Parliament and Northern Ireland’s Parliament together. We should make laws that bind us together and provide rights to us together.

We spoke earlier about consistency, and my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) mentioned the judiciary. Again, I make the point that these laws are not contingent on each other. Like many in this House, I believe that 16 and 17-year-olds have the wit and wisdom to be able to differentiate between different rights and different activities. We should take each of those topics on its individual merit. If he wants to change the position on 16 and 17-year-olds serving on juries, I look forward to his private Member’s Bill, which I am sure will be forthcoming.

[Tom Pursglove (Corby) (Con)]

Often the argument is made that it would be helpful to have an overarching review of all the different qualification ages. Is that something my hon. Friend would welcome?

[Luke Graham]

I would more than welcome a review, but we have to be careful that we do not turn such a review into another royal commission and another formal debate. We need action. We usually ask for a review when we do not have any evidence, but we have clear evidence in Scotland on the participation of 16 and 17-year-olds, on how they are contributing to our democratic discourse and on how they are influencing and participating in local democracy. We do not need a review; we need more action.

[Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)]

The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech. Does he agree that, as is evident, those people in our society who are most socially excluded would be more included if they could vote at the ages of 16 and 17?

[Luke Graham]

I could not agree more. When I go round schools and community groups to speak to 16 and 17-year-olds, as I am sure the hon. Lady does, they really are at an inflection point in their lives. They are coming towards the end of their education or course and will be deciding which area of work they want to go into, or whether they want to go on to further or higher education. It is an important moment for us, combined with some of the education measures I mentioned earlier, to engage with those individuals so we can tell them how important they are, how valued they are as British citizens and how their voice matters. It is essential that, as MPs, we sit down with 16 and 17-year-olds, who are the primary users of our state-funded education system and are users of other public services, and look them straight in the eye and say, “I think your voice matters.”

[James Cartlidge]

On public services, I recently tabled a written question to the Chancellor on the amount of tax and national insurance paid by 16 and 17-year-olds. Interestingly, the figure for those who are eligible is £2,247, more than every category of pensioner, which is perhaps not surprising. Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the key issues is taxation and representation? If people are expected to pay tax and national insurance, they should have a say in how that tax and national insurance are spent.

[Luke Graham]

My hon. Friend makes a valuable point, and I certainly was not aware of that figure. I would be grateful if he shared the figure with me and other members of the all-party parliamentary group on votes at 16. This House probably should have learned the lesson by now that taxation without representation can lead to unforeseen and unfortunate consequences, so I hope that we can seek to avoid that in future. Many speeches and column inches are taken up with how to engage with young people. A huge multitude of think- tanks, debate nights and academic pursuits—