Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill (Sixth sitting)

Luke Evans Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 24th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Justin Madders]

I think the irony is noted: the Minister says that everyone has their opportunity to speak and then does not give way to interventions.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

On a point of order, Sir George. I think it is fair to say that the Minister has given way numerous times. It is a little churlish to suggest that she has not, and I would like Hansard to observe that.

[The Chair]

As the hon. Gentleman well knows, it is not up to me to decide whether a Minister, or anyone else, should give way during a speech. So, strictly speaking, it is not a point of order, but the hon. Gentleman has made his point.

--- Later in debate ---

If we are talking about bringing back control to Parliament, Parliament does not have full control over consideration of statutory instruments. That is, first of all, the reserve of the Government. Such scrutiny as takes place is inevitably restricted to a very small number of Members of Parliament, representing a relatively small number of the political parties represented in this place. As I say, an entire nation of the United Kingdom will never get to be represented on a DL Committee, even if the legislation almost exclusively relates to that nation of the UK. It is not an acceptable way for major legislation to be introduced and considered, and it is certainly not an acceptable way for major legislation to be approved.

[Dr Evans]

If Scotland were to be independent and part of the EU, the European Council uses majority voting so members have to like or lump whatever they are given at the end of the vote. At the end of the day, someone has to make a decision and Government have to decide. How would that fit if Scotland were independent?

[Peter Grant]

I cannot speak about what decisions the Scottish Parliament will take after we are independent, but I look forward to seeing that day before any of us are very much older. I am confident that it is a modern, democratic Parliament with much improved scrutiny procedures. For example, in the Scottish Parliament it would have been impossible for us to have two changes of Prime Minister without the explicit approval of the Parliament. Nobody can become a Minister of the Scottish Government without being approved by the Scottish Parliament. There is much greater parliamentary accountability for the Executive than there is ever going to be here.

My confident expectation is that when an independent Scotland goes back into the European Union, the Scottish Parliament will have a much greater role in scrutinising the actions of our Ministers, acting on our behalf, at the European Council than this Parliament has ever had. As I have said to the Committee before, the problem with lack of accountability and scrutiny of European legislation is not because the European Union’s processes are flawed, but because parliamentary accountability in this place is fundamentally flawed.

If I intended to be part of this establishment for much longer, I would be attempting to improve its processes in order to bring it into line with proper democratic Parliaments, such as the one in Scotland. Given that neither I nor any of my colleagues from Scotland are likely to be here for very much longer, I will have to leave it to those who remain to sort out the mess of a Parliament that they have created.