House of Lords Reform Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Monday 9th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mark Field]

They are the exception that proves the rule. Just look at the 120 who were made peers; we could mention particular names. It is an entirely misjudged view that the House of Lords is full of expertise. Clearly there is expertise—I do not dispute that for one minute—but it is very much the exception rather than the rule.

[Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mark Field]

No. I want to make a little progress because others wish to speak.

I think we all accept that the UK constitution has traditionally been full of anomalies. However, we also like the idea of fair play. As an MP for a seat in London, which is the capital of England and of the whole United Kingdom, I call on the Government to offer all the British people—English, Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish—a new settlement through this Bill that will be demonstrably equitable for everyone. I believe that we should move in the direction of creating an entirely new federal parliament so that we have four full national parliaments in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, together with all the existing powers of the House of Commons. The federal UK parliament would deal with defence and foreign affairs, make treaties, and administer a cohesion fund for the poorer parts of the UK. [Interruption.] My hon. Friend the Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Tracey Crouch) says that it would be expensive. In fact, it would be anything but, because it would mean that there were fewer politicians as all English Members would be members of both the English and the UK parliaments. It would reduce the number of elected politicians, which would be a much better approach. In a sense, it would be a unicameral system. I was the only Conservative who voted for a unicameral system when we had that option. To me, what we have at the moment is the most undesirable outcome of all. I would sooner abolish that, put nothing in its place, have a unicameral system, and make the positive reforms that I hope we are going to make. Abolishing the House of Lords would mean that Parliament was unicameral, but that has not proved to be a problem in Edinburgh or in Cardiff over the past 12 years.

All this and much more needs to be addressed in Committee, but, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray) said, voting down the programme motion would be tantamount to trying to wreck the Bill as a whole. As a believer in a democratised House of Lords, that is something that I am not prepared to do.

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[Laura Sandys]

Hon. Members come from many different backgrounds. Party associations select people from the parts of the country they are to represent. Our parties should not be demeaned—we should not say that they should not have that responsibility. In my case, the party has made an excellent choice.

We have a fundamental problem. We have one Parliament, but two Chambers as important as each other. Our hybrid system—one elected Chamber and one appointed —makes a mockery of our democracy and hobbles Parliament’s overall legitimacy. In addition, it creates a problem for those resisting reform. If the House of Lords is only a revising, advisory, “think again” Chamber, it is very expensive. If it is a proper part of a bicameral legislature, as I believe it should be, it must be elected if we are to sustain a self-respecting democracy.

[Louise Mensch]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that we recently had a referendum on changing the voting system for the Westminster Parliament, which the public overwhelmingly rejected? Is not the Bill an attempt to introduce that through the back door?

[Laura Sandys]

I disagree. We will have two Chambers and two electoral systems, and two different outcomes. As a result, there will be strengths in both Chambers. They will complement each other and create much greater rigour when it comes to scrutiny and the legislative process.

Back Benchers of all parties constantly complain about the diminishing power of Parliament. Many claim the Executive is too strong. How can the concentration of powers in the hands of three party leaders, who appoint hundreds of legislators to the Chamber next door, be anything other than extreme patronage gone out of control? It is unprecedented anywhere in the democratic world.

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[John Stevenson]

It is an accepted part of our constitution that the monarch does not actually veto any of the laws passed by Parliament.

As a Conservative, I believe that all those who make the law should be elected and that those who have the right to vote should also have the right to seek election, with the opportunity to make laws or govern.

[Louise Mensch]

My hon. Friend is being very generous in giving way again. If he believes that people should be elected and should be accountable to the electorate, will he not reject a system whereby people are elected for a 15-year term, but never have to face the electorate ever again?

[John Stevenson]

The most important part is that there is democratic legitimacy, whereby the people who make laws in this country are elected.

I am aware of the arguments for the present arrangement that the other place is more varied in background and that it is a place of greater expertise. I do not accept this. The average age in the other place is 70. There are more in their 90s than there are under-40s, and around 44% have a political or local authority background. Undoubtedly, there is expertise in the other place, but it is not reactive to, or representative of, the electorate.

As for the make-up of the other place, it is overwhelmingly geared towards the south of England. Where is the representation of Scotland, Wales or the north of England? Representative it is not. We need to ensure proper regional representation so that the views of all parts of the country are heard in the second Chamber. As to the principles of a functioning Parliament, let us not delude ourselves that the present arrangements are satisfactory for us in this place. Arguably, because of the current arrangements for the House of Lords, we have weakened our own Chamber as an instrument of legislature.

Debate on the Address

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Edward Miliband]

I will tell the hon. Gentleman what we did in government: we introduced the winter fuel allowance and took action on prepayment meters—far more than this Government have ever done.

Let us talk about those at the top of society, executive pay and multi-million pound bonuses—[Interruption.] It is very interesting that Conservative Members are groaning about that, because a few months ago, the Prime Minister said that he was outraged about crony capitalism. He told us that he was grossly offended by it and that it was not what he believed in. Such was his strength of feeling that in the entire Queen’s Speech, the issue did not merit a single mention.

I have a suggestion for the Prime Minister. He should accept the recommendation of the High Pay Commission to put an ordinary worker on the remuneration committee of every company in Britain. I say, “If you can’t look one of your employees in the eye to justify that you’re worth it, then you shouldn’t be getting the salary.” Come to think of it, why not start with the Government? I have the ideal candidate to be the employee on the board judging the Cabinet. She stands ready to serve—the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries). Let us remind ourselves why she is so well qualified. She said:

“They are two arrogant posh boys who show no remorse, no contrition, and no passion to understand the lives of others.”

She is only saying what so many people are thinking: it is high time the shareholder spring came to the Conservative party.

On the economy, on living standards, and on executive pay—

[Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman is coming on to the economy, so, since the shadow Chancellor cannot enlighten us, will he tell the House how he is coming along with costing his economic programme?

[Edward Miliband]

I am glad that the hon. Lady intervened, because this is what she said about the election results:

“As Conservatives, we have to learn lessons…In the spirit of non-spin, my benchmark for Labour was 700 seats”.

I think we slightly outperformed her expectations.

Ministerial Code (Culture Secretary)

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Monday 30th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What I have always said is that I have not had any inappropriate conversation about this issue—and, indeed, I have not. But clearly it is very important, in the context of this inquiry, to recall everything possible, and what I recall is that, because of the frankly rather embarrassing situation that we were in, whereby a Minister had said that he was trying to “destroy” a media company, it was perfectly appropriate for me to say that that was not correct or appropriate and that these things would be dealt with properly in future. That is a thoroughly responsible and sensible thing to say.

[Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend share my mystification as to how the Leader of the Opposition can deduce that there has been a breach of the ministerial code without seeing the texts and e-mails that passed between the Culture Secretary and Adam Smith, which are to come out in the Leveson inquiry?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend absolutely puts her finger on it. The fact is that the Leader of the Opposition does not want to wait for the evidence and does not want to wait for the information; he saw a passing bandwagon and jumped on board it. That is what happened.

Oral Answers to Questions

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, the problem is that we want more people to stay on in school, but we have to look at the working of the current system. The Labour Government commissioned research and found that 90% of those on EMA would have attended school in any event. We also have to look at the context in which EMA was introduced into this country. Let me cite what the hon. Gentleman’s parliamentary colleague, the former Prime Minister said at the time:

“We will fund this major advance in educational opportunity from savings that we have made from our success in reducing… debt.”—[Official Report, 15 July 2002; Vol. 389, c. 29.]

Is it any surprise that we are having to look at these spending programmes and work out how to get better value for money to clear up the mess we have been left?

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

Q9. My constituents in Corby and East Northamptonshire are still suffering today from the disastrous top-down housing targets imposed by the Labour Government. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the Localism Bill will restore planning power to local people in Corby and east Northamptonshire?

[The Prime Minister]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. The failure of top-down housing targets was that they not only created huge unease around the country but did not result in the building of very many houses, as house building fell to such a low level. Our more local version will make sure that where councils go ahead and build houses, they will benefit from doing so.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Tuesday 18th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sadiq Khan]

Things are desperate when the Whips have to arrange things to get most of the Liberal parliamentary party into the Chamber, but it is good to see two rows of Liberal MPs. The Deputy Prime Minister knows more about mutinies than I do, but I suspect that the situation tonight is similar to that of a football club chairman who says to his manager, “Your job is safe.” I look forward to the right hon. Gentleman’s continued contribution to debates about constitutional reform.

The Bill before us allows the Government to set in stone the date of the next general election as Thursday 7 May 2015. It also gives them time to foist a series of constitutional changes on to the country. They will reduce the size of the House of Commons by 50 MPs, redraw constituency boundaries and silence the voices of local residents through the removal of public inquiries. This Bill allows them the time to do that, and as the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin), who is not in his place, said on Second Reading, it smacks of

“gerrymandering the constitution in favour of a particular coalition”.—[Official Report, 13 September 2010; Vol. 515, c. 624.]

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to suggest that, by the Prime Minister giving up power and by making the votes of people in Corby equal to the votes of people in the Rhondda, we are gerrymandering in the Bill? That is an amazing use of language.

[Sadiq Khan]

That Bill is being discussed in the other place. It starts again at 3.30 tomorrow.

The hon. Lady should be interested in my next point, however, because the Bill before us also ties the hands of the Conservative party to the Liberal Democrats. With this Bill, their respective fates and identities become inseparable. Make no mistake: the Bill is not for the good of the country; it is for the good of the Ministers on the Treasury Bench. What compounds that outrageous piece of attempted constitutional fixing is the fact they are trying to ram it through at breakneck speed. That urgency is because Back Benchers from both coalition parties are having second thoughts about the issue, so party managers need to get them super-glued together quickly, with no way out.

Throughout the Bill’s passage, we have raised a number of concerns about its content and its scrutiny. I have no problem with the Conservative party being converts to fixed-term Parliaments.

Fixed-term Parliaments Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

We will have that debate later.

A five-year Parliament was not in either governing party’s manifesto, and was not put to a public vote. I often wonder, as I watch the coalition Government’s policies morph before me and see stories about the coalition discussions leak out in books and in the Sunday press, just how much influence Back-Bench Lib Dems had over the policy negotiations. I wonder whether they, like me, wake up and wonder which policy of theirs will be changed today. As we are getting used to saying in Wales, “Another day, another Lib-Dem U-turn.”

So, we are still no closer to understanding why five and not four years is the chosen length for a fixed term of the UK Parliament. Perhaps a wag on the Government Benches—by that I mean a wit, not the more common tabloid usage of the word—was correct when she referred to the next election date as being “ the date of the next election, cementing the coalition”. Others think that this is a response to the economic cycle, and the hope is that by 2015 the worm will have turned and the tremendous gamble with our economy, our livelihoods and our communities that we witnessed in the comprehensive spending review will have paid off, and we will be enjoying the fruits of a hard-won recovery. Either way, it appears to be a decision made from political expediency, and that is not in the best interests of the electorate or democracy.

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister currently has the right to extend this Parliament to 2015 if he wishes, so how is it an aggregation of power for him to give up the right to call an election at the time of his own choosing?

[Jonathan Edwards]

I think that the debate is about whether there is to be five years or four years between elections. I will try to address the hon. Lady’s point as the debate progresses.

Many would say that the decision to run five-year electoral terms is a result of political expediency. I have a fair bit of experience of coalitions, and their policies should not have to be welded together in a back room in the way that those of the Con-Dem coalition have been. There is huge irony in the Deputy Prime Minister’s coming to this House to say that the coalition is taking away the Prime Minister’s right to call an election at the time of his choosing, because it is not. This addresses the point made by the hon. Member for Corby (Ms Bagshawe). The one who is currently in charge can choose the longest possible time to be in charge providing that he can keep his own party happy.

The Political and Constitutional Reform Committee notes that much of the evidence it received was against the idea of a five-year fixed parliamentary term. Neither constitutional experts nor the public are in favour of the new electoral system being set at this length of time. Indeed, some experts saw a note of irony in that by spacing out the time between elections at this maximum length, the active participation of many voters in the electoral system will be reduced rather than increased or improved, as many people, sadly, choose to mark their ballot paper only in a UK general election and do not participate at other levels of democracy. That is another issue that has not been considered properly in the discussions so far.

On Second Reading, many Members, not least my hon. Friend the Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart), drew attention to the most salient concern—that of having the elections on the same day as other elections, specifically those of the devolved Administrations. There is nothing of what Aretha Franklin, or even George Galloway, might describe as “Respect” in the UK Government’s treatment of the devolved Administrations in this affair, which has been notably lacking in meaningful consultation.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The salient point is not whether the election takes place every four years, five years, three years or whatever, but that the referendum coming up next May is usurping the day of democracy and affecting issues over four years. The Minister said that the UK will be solely responsible for the costs, which implies that the amendment has, in effect, been accepted. I welcome that.

When the referendum comes around, I cannot see parties such as the Scottish National party campaigning very strongly for or against. We will have more important things to do. I would encourage the Liberal Democrats to campaign on the referendum, because we will then go and hoover up their seats. A massive mistake is being made by holding that poll on the same day as the elections in Scotland. That is why I am making the protest, and I hope it is being heard. I do not know what will happen in another place, but it should change the provision.

Gate-crashing Scotland’s day of democracy shows a lack of respect on the part of the Government. They say that they would have respected the devolved Administrations, but when pressed they tell us that the opinions of the governing parties of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland do not matter—a case of words and actions diverging greatly.

The Government need our input. They need all our voices. We need to present issues to the Government and make sure that they do the right thing.

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

Surely the hon. Gentleman cannot have it both ways. We have heard much from the Opposition Benches about respect for the devolution settlement. This is an issue reserved to the Westminster Parliament, so the question of extensive consultation does not arise. This is a Westminster issue for the Westminster Parliament under our settlement.

[Mr MacNeil]

That is why respect is important. The day has been set in legislation for the Scottish Parliament for more than a decade. All of a sudden, somebody wanders in, gate-crashes the party and takes the media caravan on to the lawn. Hon. Members cannot imagine that people in Scotland will not be upset or annoyed that that is happening.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Harper]

I think my answer stills stands.

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that there is deliberate obfuscation going on, given that some citizens eligible to vote in local elections are not necessarily eligible to vote in Westminster elections—for example, European nationals, whom we would not wish to vote in the referendum anyway? Contrary to the intervention by the hon. Member for Glasgow South (Mr Harris), is not one of the biggest predictors of voting whether someone has voted before? Is not the existence of the referendum therefore more likely to increase, rather than depress, turnout in local elections?

[Mr Harper]

My hon. Friend is spot-on. To be frank, I think that voters are perfectly capable of working out what elections or referendums are taking place. Voters in Wales will have had some warm-up practice in March, because they will have had an important referendum on the powers that the Welsh Assembly Government should have. They will therefore have had the opportunity to think about whether they want an absent vote. That will mean, I am sure, that at the front of their minds, as they approach the elections and referendum on 5 May, they will be thinking hard about whether they will be around and able to vote in person, or whether they should apply for an absent vote. At least in Wales, therefore, what the hon. Member for Glasgow South suggests might happen is unlikely to do so.

Now, where did I get to? [Laughter.] There have been so many interventions. I suspect that it was nice for everyone to break up the monotony of my voice reading out these exciting provisions, so I am happy to have taken those criticisms from the Committee.

Given that the provisions in schedules 3 to 5 are largely consistent with those I have outlined for England, I am sure that the Committee will be relieved to hear that I do not intend to go through their contents in the same detail. However, I will go through some of the key provisions we have made for Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. As I confirmed earlier, we have amended the definition of a voting area for the referendum as it applies in Scotland and Wales to provide that the referendum is to be run on the same respective boundaries as Scottish parliamentary and National Assembly for Wales elections. That will help with the administration of the elections, as the officials involved in delivering them have said.

We have kept the provisions on the timing of the count silent in the legislation to allow sufficient flexibility for the counts for the devolved elections to take place prior to the referendum count. We have based the postal voting provisions in part 2 of schedules 3 and 4 on those that apply for Welsh Assembly and Scottish parliamentary elections, making modifications where necessary to take account of the referendum. That will ensure that small differences in regional practice on postal voting will carry through to the referendum.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Monday 18th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mark Durkan]

The hon. Lady is right. That has certainly been the experience in the south of Ireland, where the Referendum Commission has played precisely that role and had to reprimand some individuals for claims—whether exaggerated arguments or not fully factual explanations—made on behalf of yes and no campaigns. It is appropriate that somebody be charged with providing neutral information, rather than the fairly colourful and possibly extreme suggestions that will come from both the yes and no campaigns. Those who are very committed might tend to be over the top in some of the material they produce. Certainly that has been the case in some referendums in the south, which is why the Referendum Commission there was developed and given this sort of role, and it is why the Electoral Commission will have to play the same role here. However, we have to be careful not to put the Electoral Commission in a difficult position in respect of the approval that it must secure in relation to anything that is issued, although campaigns obviously are—and should be—free to make their case.

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman makes an excellent point. Does he agree that an ancillary danger of the amendment is endless delay? If one campaign raised objection after objection to wording, would that not muddy the waters and endanger the very date of the referendum?

[Mark Durkan]

Yes, that is precisely what could happen, and if the controversy and disagreement on the wording all tended to come from one side rather than the other, that could create an insinuation of bias on the part of the Electoral Commission’s conduct and intent as well.

I give hon. Members a warning. Perhaps this is not a warning, but bad advice; or rather, perhaps it will turn out to be advice that I am ill-advisedly giving to some Members who would campaign against AV. The experience in some of the referendums in the south is that no campaigns have basically adopted campaigns of misinformation. They have created a lot of confusion and controversy around relatively straightforward issues, and then resorted to the tactic of campaigning on the slogan “If you don’t know, vote no”.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Louise Mensch Excerpts

Tuesday 12th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

My hon. Friend’s assertion is correct. The referendum, when it arrives, will probably receive very little attention in Scotland, because those of us involved in politics will not waste any time discussing whether we are for or against. We will have greater priorities that affect Scots day in, day out—and not a voting system for Westminster that comes along every four or five years. [Interruption.] I think that I have roused some Members.

[Ms Louise Bagshawe (Corby) (Con)]

Which is it to be: will the referendum arouse no interest whatsoever in Scotland because we have weightier matters to discuss, or will it drown out all other voices and deprive the Scottish people of the ability to consider their local elections?

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Lady misses the point which is the way in which the UK is constructed, the way in which finance goes into the media in the UK, and where the media broadcast from and are centralised. Everybody accepts that that issue will dominate.