Lord Stunell
Main Page: Lord Stunell (Liberal Democrat - Life peer)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell)
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)
With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:
New clause 8—Sunday trading hours - power to amend or repeal—
‘Notwithstanding any existing statutory provisions, a local authority may, for its area, impose its own regulations on Sunday opening hours for retail outlets that currently have a restriction in place to either—
(a) reduce the existing hours, or
(b) extend the existing hours.’.
New clause 10—Recall elections—
‘(1) If 25% or more of the registered voters in the constituency of an elected local government member sign a relevant recall petition then a recall election must be held on the same date as the next election (whether or not a local election) to be held in the constituency of the elected government member, provided that that election is not less than 12 weeks after the threshold has been reached.
(2) In order for a recall petition to be relevant the appropriate returning officer must be satisfied that—
(a) the petition has been submitted in accordance with the rules provided for in subsection (3) and;
(b) there is evidence contained in the petition that the elected local government member has—
(i) acted in a way which is financially dishonest or disreputable,
(ii) intentionally misled the body to which he or she was elected,
(iii) broken any promises made by him or her in an election address,
(iv) behaved in a way that is likely to bring his or her office into disrepute, or
(v) lost the confidence of his or her electorate.
(3) The Secretary of State must lay regulations before Parliament within six months of the passing of this Act setting out—
(a) how notice of intent to petition for recall is to be given,
(b) how “registered voters” are to be defined for different types of constituency,
(c) the definition of “appropriate returning officer”,
(d) the ways in which registered voters can sign a recall petition,
(e) the ways in which signatures to such petitions will be verified,
(f) entitlement to vote in, and the conduct of, the recall election,
(g) rules on any other related matters as considered necessary by the Secretary of State, and
(h) consequential, saving, transitory or transitional provision (including amendments to existing statutory provision, whenever passed or made).
(4) The Secretary of State must issue guidance to returning officers on how to make assessments under subsection (2)(b) within six months of the passing of this Act.
(5) The question that is to appear on the ballot papers in a recall election is “Should [name of elected local government member] be recalled from [name of body or office]?”.
(6) If at a recall election more votes are cast in favour of the answer “Yes” than in favour of the answer “No”, then—
(a) if the elected representative has been elected under a first past the post or alternative vote electoral system, he or she is recalled and a by-election must be held within three months in which the recalled candidate may stand, or
(b) if the elected representative has been elected under a system of proportional representation, the next candidate on the relevant party list shall take the seat.
(7) In this section “elected local government member” means any person elected to the Greater London Authority, a county council in England, district council, or London borough council, including an elected mayor of the council; and the Mayor of London.
(8) Regulations under this section may not be made unless a draft of the statutory instrument containing the regulations has been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament.
(9) Subsections (1) and (2) come into force six months after the day on which the regulations under subsection (3) are made.’.
New clause 27—Low pay policy statements—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must by regulations made by statutory instrument require relevant authorities to prepare a pay policy statement for lower paid staff within six months of this Act coming into force.
(2) In this section “lower paid staff” means—
(a) the lowest paid member of staff, and
(b) any member of staff paid less than 20 per cent. above the amount paid to the lowest paid member of staff.’.
New clause 28—Local authority contractor pay policy statements—
‘(1) The Secretary of State must by regulations made by statutory instrument require relevant authorities to prepare a pay policy statement for the highest paid staff and the lower paid staff of local authority contractors within six months of this Act coming into force.
(2) In this section—
(a) “local authority contractors” means a company or organisation (a “contractor”) that supplies services or executes works for the relevant authorities to the value of more than £250,000 in any financial year;
(b) “lower paid staff” means—
(i) the lowest paid member of staff, and
(ii) any member of staff paid less than 20 per cent. above the amount paid to the lowest paid member of staff,
(c) “highest paid staff” means the highest paid member of staff by remuneration, which shall include payments made by the contractor to the member of staff in connection with that staff’s employment, any relevant bonuses and benefits in kind.’.
Amendment 37, page 4, line 22, clause 5, at end insert—
‘(6A) The power under subsection (1) or (2) may not be exercised to amend, repeal, revoke or disapply—
(a) this Part of this Act,
(b) Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964 section 7 or section 13,
(c) Small Holdings and Allotments Act 1908 section 23,
(d) Children Act 1989 Part 3 and Schedule 2,
(e) Childcare Act 2006, Parts 1 and 2,
(f) Child Poverty Act 2010 Part 2,
(g) Equality Act 2010, section 88,
(h) Equality Act 2010, section 149,
(i) Care Standards Act 2000,
(j) Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 section 21,
(k) Transport Act 2000 section 145A,
(l) Local Authorities’ Traffic Orders (Exemptions for Disabled Persons) (England) Regulations 2000,
(m) Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2007,
(n) Disabled Persons (Badges for Motor Vehicles) (England) (Amendment No. 2) Regulations 2007,
(o) Carers and Disabled Children Act 2000,
(p) Carers (Recognition and Services) Act 1995,
(q) Disabled Persons (Services, Consultation and Representation) Act 1986,
(r) Mental Health Act 1983 Part 8,
(s) Community Care, Services for Carers and Children Services (Direct Payments) England Regulations 2009,
(t) Public Health Act 1875,
(u) Public Health Act 1936,
(v) Commons Act 2006,
(w) Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000,
(x) Natural Environment and Rural Communities Act 2006 section 40,
(y) Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 section 25 or section 28E,
(z) Environment Act 1995 Part 4,
(z1) Dangerous Wild Animals Act 1976,
(z2) Prevention of Damage by Pests Act 1949,
(z3) Hedgerow Regulations 1997,
(z4) Planning (Listed Building and Conservation Areas) Act 1990 section 66 or section 72,
(z5) Ancient Monument and Archaeological Areas Act 1979 sections 12 and 13,
(z6) National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949,
(z7) Animal Welfare Act 2006 section 30,
(z8) Zoo Licensing Act 1981,
(z9) Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009 Part 6,
(z10) Flood and Water Management Act 2010 Schedule 3,
(z11) Working Time Regulations 1998 Regulation 28,
(z12) Education Act 1996 section 15ZA,
(z13) Food Safety Act 1990 Parts 1, 2 and 3,
(z14) Freedom of Information Act 2000,
(z15) Housing Grants, Construction and Regeneration Act 1996 section 1,
(z16) Housing Act 1996 Part 7,
(z17) Homelessness Act 2002,
(z18) Housing Act 2004 Part 2,
(z19) Local Government Act 1972 Part VA, section 99 or section 148,
(z20) Local Government Act 2000 Part 3 section 21 or section 37,
(z21) Children and Young Persons Act 1969 Part 1, or
(z22) Adoption and Children Act 2002.’.
Government amendments 44 to 50.
Amendment 36, page 5, line 32, clause 7, at end insert—
‘subject to the exceptions specified in section 5 (6A)’.
Government amendments 51 to 98.
Amendment 42, page 193, line 27, schedule 2, leave out from beginning to end of line 39 on page 195.
Amendment 43, page 198, leave out lines 4 to 25.
Amendment 2, page 199, leave out lines 30 to 43 and insert—
‘The elected mayor is to be returned under the simple majority system.’.
Amendment 3, page 200, line 6, leave out from ‘one’ to second ‘vote’ in line 7.
Amendment 38, page 205, leave out lines 29 to 31.
Amendment 1, page 208, line 48, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘2.5’.
Amendment 39, page 209, leave out lines 3 to 25.
Amendment 40, page 209, leave out lines 26 to 47.
Amendment 41, page 211, line 18, leave out from beginning to end of line 31 on page 213.
Amendment 15, page 213, line 40, at end insert—
‘9OZA Elected Mayors and Reduction of Councillors
(1) Where a local authority has an elected mayor, that local authority must reduce within four years of the election of the Mayor the number of local councillors to one-third of pre-mayoral levels.
(2) These provisions will apply retrospectively to local authorities which already have an elected mayor and the reduction in councillors must take place within four years of this legislation taking effect.’.
Amendment 4, page 215, leave out line 17.
Amendment 5, page 215, leave out lines 34 and 35.
Government amendments 99 to 129.
Amendment 365, page 15, line 44, clause 16, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.
Amendment 366, page 16, line 4, leave out paragraph (c).
Government amendments 130 and 131.
Amendment 367, page 16, line 31, clause 17, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’.
Amendment 302, page 18, line 28, clause 21, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 303, page 18, line 30, leave out ‘A senior’ and insert ‘Subject to subsection (2)(b), a,’.
Amendment 304, page 18, line 31, leave out ‘its chief officers’ and insert—
‘(a) its chief officers and its lower paid staff; and
(b) the chief officers and the lower paid staff for each employer of indirectly employed staff, subject to paragraph (c);
(c) nothing in this Chapter shall be taken as requiring the publication of a pay policy statement where:
(i) it relates to indirectly employed staff; and
(ii) the aggregate value of all funding received by the indirect employer of the staff from a relevant authority does not exceed £250,00 in any financial year.’.
Amendment 305, page 18, line 41, at end insert
‘and the lower paid staff
(h) the total level of remuneration of the highest paid chief officer (A);
(i) the total level of remuneration of the lowest paid member of staff (B);
(j) the total number of staff being paid the amount set out in paragraph (3)(i);
(k) the number of staff paid less than 10 per cent. above the amount set out in paragraph (3)(i);
(l) the number of staff paid less than 20 per cent. above the amount set out in paragraph (3)(i);
(m) the highest paid chief officer’s remuneration as a multiple of the lowest paid member of staff’s remuneration using the formulation A/B;
(n) the pay multiple to be maintained as set out in paragraph (3)(m).’.
Amendment 306, page 19, line 1, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 307, page 19, line 3, at end insert ‘and lower paid staff’.
Amendment 308, page 19, line 5, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 309, page 19, line 11, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 310, page 19, line 13, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 311, page 19, line 16, at end insert—
‘(6) Where any of the posts to be included in the pay policy statement are not full-time, the information given in the pay policy statement must be expressed as a full-time equivalent.’.
Amendment 312, page 19, line 29, clause 24, at end insert—
‘or its lower paid staff.’.
Amendment 313, page 19, line 30, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 373, page 19, line 39, leave out ‘senior’.
Amendment 314, page 20, line 35, clause 26, at end insert—
‘(g) any employee of the relevant authority whose remuneration exceeds that of any chief officer as defined in this section.’.
Amendment 315, page 20, line 35, at end insert—
‘(2A) In this Chapter “lower paid staff’, means each of the following—
(a) the lowest paid member of staff,
(b) staff paid less than 20 per cent. above the amount paid to the lowest paid member of staff.
(2B) In this Chapter “staff” means any staff whether directly or indirectly employed by a relevant authority and who are not chief officers.
(2C) In this Chapter “indirectly employed” means staff employed other than by a relevant authority to undertake work for a relevant authority and which is funded by that authority. Any reference to indirect employment, indirect employer or indirectly employed staff, shall be construed accordingly.
(2D) In this Chapter the provisions of section 231 (associated employers) of the Employment Rights Act 1996 shall apply to indirect employment arrangements.’.
Amendment 316, page 20, line 36, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘, or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 317, page 20, line 38, after ‘officer’s’, insert—
‘, or lowest paid member of staff’s’.
Amendment 318, page 20, line 40, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘, or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 319, page 20, line 41, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 320, page 20, line 43, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 283, page 20, line 44, leave out ‘is’ and insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff is’.
Amendment 284, page 20, line 45, after ‘officer’s’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’s’.
Amendment 285, page 21, line 1, after ‘officer’s’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’s’.
Amendment 286, page 21, line 4, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 287, page 21, line 5, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 288, page 21, line 7, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 289, page 21, line 8, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 290, page 21, line 11, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 291, page 21, line 13, after ‘officer’, insert—
‘or lowest paid member of staff’.
Amendment 292, page 21, line 15, after ‘officers’, insert—
‘or lowest paid members of staff’.
Government new clause 13—Further warning notices.
Government new clause 14—Further EU financial sanction notices.
Amendment 353, page 22, line 1, leave out clause 30.
Government amendments 132 and 133.
Amendment 354, page 22, line 28, leave out clause 31.
Government amendments 134 and 135.
Amendment 355, page 23, line 41, leave out clause 32.
Government amendments 136 to 138.
Amendment 356, page 24, line 23, leave out clause 33.
Government amendments 139 and 140.
Amendment 357, page 24, line 38, leave out clause 34.
Government amendments 141 to 143, 183, 211, 216 and 217.
Government new clause 22—Pre-commencement consultation.
Government amendment 266.
Andrew Stunell
New clause 12 refines one of the central elements of the Bill—the general power of competence. I shall say more about that shortly and also address the other new clauses and amendments in this excessively long group.
The Government are committed to the radical decentralisation of power and control from Whitehall and Westminster to local government, local communities and individuals. We are pushing power back down to the lowest possible level, and this Bill is about shaking up the balance of power and revitalising democracy. It will give power to councils, communities, voluntary groups and the people, giving local authorities the power to take decisions that are right for their areas, and giving to local people the power to influence those decisions.
This Government trust local authorities to know what is best for their areas, we trust local councillors to know what they are doing and we are freeing up local government from the shackles of central Government. The Localism Bill does just what it says on the label.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
I welcome the Minister’s opening remarks and wonder whether he is, therefore, just about to get on to the fact that he supports my new clause 8, which would give local authorities the opportunity to vary Sunday trading laws. If what he says is true and he wants to pass all such decisions down to the lowest possible level, that is surely what he is about to announce.
Andrew Stunell
I look forward to hearing my hon. Friend’s case deployed in the debate.
I am pleased to report that there is a very broad measure of agreement, both inside and outside the House, on the Bill’s principles and, indeed, on many of its specific provisions.
Local authorities will need to ensure the delivery of more responsive services in a more transparent way, so that their citizens can see what is going on. To do so, local councils will need to innovate, to work across traditional boundaries and to ensure clear lines of accountability to their residents. That will be characterised, above all, by the way in which local democracy is renewed.
Within this very large group of proposed changes, there are a number of new clauses and amendments that hon. Members from all parts of the House have tabled, including the one to which my hon. Friend just referred. We shall debate them, I will consider carefully the points that hon. Members raise and I hope to have the opportunity to respond to them before the close of this debate.
We had a consensual time on the whole in Committee, and I hope that we can carry that forward in our discussion on this group of proposed changes.
Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)
Not wanting to become non-consensual at this early stage, I note that the Minister talks about limits on power, and we are still concerned about the Bill’s 142 extra powers for the Secretary of State. I am puzzled why new clause 12 specifies only the powers in clause 5(1), because they are exactly the same as those in clause 5(2). If there is a concern about limiting the powers of the Secretary of State, it should apply to both subsections. I wonder whether the Minister might cover that point.
Andrew Stunell
I hope to have satisfied the hon. Lady by the time I have completed my remarks. If not, I am sure that she will let me know.
All the Government amendments and new clauses, one way or another, are designed to improve the effectiveness of the Bill, given the range of issues that were raised in Committee, as the Minister of State said, and given outside events, including in particular the passage of the Welsh referendum, which means that some of the provisions that were in prospect earlier on can now be made a reality. To that extent, I hope I can reassure the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards) that we are not inserting a whole lot of totally new provisions; we are simply making available to the Welsh Executive the same powers that are being made available in England. I hope he finds that somewhat reassuring.
We have, where appropriate, taken into account feedback from the consultations that have been carried out on elements of the Bill and representations that we have received from a wide range of organisations that have been interested in—and, in some cases, very excited about—the prospect of the Bill coming into force.
Andrew Stunell
I take note of that, and I will return to it in two or three minutes’ time, if I may.
The hon. Lady is of course right that there was not agreement on everything. I recognise, in particular, that there were different views on mayors, not only between Government and Opposition Front-Bench teams but among some of my hon. Friends. I will listen carefully to the points made today on the mayoral proposals in the Bill, particularly on such issues as shadow mayors and mayoral management arrangements. Overall, however, I was struck by how much we had in common and how much consensus there is about the need to change the power balance in this country in line with the direction that the Bill takes. I hope that the House will recognise that, through the range of new clauses and amendments that we have tabled, we have tried genuinely and thoroughly to address the points that have been raised.
Let me turn in more detail to new clause 12 and some of the other Government amendments. I appreciate that I have to strike a difficult balance between using up the available time for debate and giving the House a reasonable explanation of the measures before it. I will steer as good a course as I can, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I am sure you will let me know if I go astray. New clause 12 and its related amendments impose conditions on the use of the delegated powers in clause 5(1) in relation to the general power of competence. Clause 5(1) sets out a power for the Secretary of State to remove or to change statutory provisions that prevent or restrict the use of the general power of competence. We have termed this the barrier-buster power.
Amendment 64 is the equivalent provision for the general power of competence for fire and rescue authorities in England and Wales. The amendment imposes conditions on the use of the delegated powers in new section 5C(1) of the Fire and Rescue Services Act 2004, which is inserted by clause 8. New section 5C(1) sets out a power for the appropriate national authority—Welsh Ministers for the devolved matters relating to Wales, but otherwise the Secretary of State—to remove or to change statutory provisions that prevent or restrict the use of the general power for fire and rescue authorities.
Concerns were expressed about the scope of the delegated power at clause 5(1)—the barrier buster—and the equivalent powers in relation to fire and rescue authorities. The Government reflected on those concerns and decided to introduce specific preconditions as to the use of the barrier-buster power and the limitations on its scope. These include a proportionality test and a requirement to achieve a fair balance between the public interest and the interests of any person adversely affected by an order. In addition to the current requirements that the Secretary of State has to satisfy—in particular, that he must think that a provision prevents or restricts the use of the general power and must consult on his proposals—subsection (1) now provides that he must also consider the conditions set out in subsection (2), in relation to the general power, and in section 5C(1) in relation to the fire provision to have been satisfied in relation to the proposals.
The new conditions that the clause introduces ensure that the use of the provision is proportionate to the policy objective intended, that there is a fair balance between the public interest and the interests of any person adversely affected, that there is no removal of any necessary protection, that no person will be prevented from continuing to exercise any right or freedom that they might reasonably expect to exercise, and that any provision is not of constitutional significance. In the light of Opposition amendments 36 and 37, it is perhaps worth explaining the effect of these conditions in a little more detail. The first condition is that the effect of the provision made by the order is proportionate to its policy objective. It might be possible to achieve a policy objective in several different ways, some of which might be more onerous than others and could represent a disproportionate means of securing the desired outcome, so the Secretary of State must satisfy himself that that is not the case and that there is an appropriate relationship between the policy aim and the means chosen to deliver it.
The second condition is that the provision made by the order, taken as a whole, strikes a fair balance between the public interest, on the one hand, and the interests of the person adversely affected by the order, on the other. While it may be possible to make an order that will have an adverse effect on the interests of one or more persons, the Secretary of State must first be satisfied that this is outweighed by beneficial effects in the public interest. The third condition is that the provision made by the order does not remove any necessary protection. The notion of necessary protection can extend to economic protection, to health and safety protection, and to the protection of civil liberties, the environment and national heritage.
The fourth condition is that the provision made by the order will not prevent any person from continuing to exercise any right or freedom that he might reasonably expect to continue to exercise. To take a leading example, any right conferred or protected by the European convention on human rights is a right that a person might reasonably expect to keep. The fifth and final condition is that the provision made by the order is not constitutionally significant. That condition will allow orders to amend enactments that are themselves constitutionally significant, but only if the amendments are not constitutionally significant. The condition puts it beyond doubt that repeal of legislation such as the Human Rights Act 1998 or the European Communities Act 1972 is outside this power.
In addition to these preconditions, we are seeking to amend the Bill so that an order under clause 5(1) or section 5C(1) of the 2004 Act may not make provision in relation to certain specified limitation. Subsection (3) prevents orders from being used to delegate or transfer a function of legislating, ensuring that a power to make legislation given by Parliament to the Secretary of State or to another body cannot be transferred to a local authority in the interests of barrier busting. It is right that those decisions should remain with Parliament. Subsection (4) gives a definition of the function of legislating—that is, legislating by order, by rules, by regulation or by subordinate instruments. Subsection (5) prohibits an order from abolishing or varying any tax. It could be argued that removing a tax payable by a local authority would be the removal of a barrier, but it is not our intention that clause 5(1) should be used in that way, so the new clause will prevent an order to vary tax from being made.
Taken as a whole, the Government’s proposals will provide the protections that the Opposition seek in amendments 36 and 37, but without the inflexible and heavy-handed mechanism that they propose. Amendment 36 would amend the definition of a statutory provision by excluding from that definition a long list of statutes, which is set out in amendment 37. That appears to have been prompted by various strands of work that are being undertaken to gather information about local authority duties. This appears to be an attempt to make a point about front-line duties and the desirability of many things that local authorities have to do. Indeed, that is what the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) set out on her website as being her intention. She has fairly given me notice that she
“will be pressing ministers in the Commons debate…to be clear about which other vital council services can be protected.”
I am happy to tell the hon. Lady that the general power is not designed as a means to do away with duties that Parliament has imposed on local authorities. The general power does not oblige local authorities to act in a particular way; it is not the same thing as a duty imposed by legislation. It will give local authorities real freedom to innovate and act in the interests of their communities. The Opposition seem to have developed a misunderstanding about the scope of clause 5(1). It provides the Secretary of State with powers to remove or change statutory provisions that prevent or restrict the use of the general power. That restriction or limitation is one that bites on the general power by virtue of clause 2. The provision is about removing barriers to the legal capacity of authorities to act innovatively and in the best interests of their communities. It is not aimed at removing duties, nor is it, nor could it be, a general-purpose tool to remove any legislation that places a burden on local authorities.
New clause 12 and the connected Government amendments will increase the safeguards on the use of the power in clause 5(1). In addition, the Secretary of State must consult before exercising the power and the appropriate parliamentary procedure for scrutinising any proposed order will be determined by Parliament.
Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)
Does the Minister accept that clause 5, when taken in conjunction with the review that his Department is carrying out into burdensome regulations, might lead to the fear, which many of my constituents have expressed to me, that important protections and duties that exist within local authorities might disappear?
Andrew Stunell
The review of statutory duties is a separate exercise. We have made it clear several times that the review of statutory duties will not remove duties to provide vital services, and that any changes to statutory duties that come about as a result of that review will subsequently be properly considered and consulted on. There is no connection between the two processes.
I urge the House, when the time comes, to support new clause 12 and to reject amendments 36 and 37.
I will turn to the other proposals in this group, on which I hope I can be helpful. When the Committee discussed the standards of behaviour required of councillors, we discussed whether a local authority should have to publicise that it has a code of conduct. My hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) made a powerful speech on the difference between may and must. I think that was one of the Committee’s high spots. Although we consider it right that a local authority can choose whether to adopt a code of conduct for its members, it must be under a duty to disclose whether it has done so and whether it has revised or abolished its code. That duty will ensure that local people are made aware when their local authority adopts, changes or withdraws its code, while leaving it for authorities to decide how best to publicise and deal with these matters.
Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)
The Minister is putting the completely absurd proposition to the House that the local authority will be under a duty to publicise a code of conduct that it may decide not to have. Will he please recognise that that is nonsense? Abolishing the requirement for a code of conduct in every local authority in the country is a serious, retrograde step, of which the Government should be profoundly ashamed.
Andrew Stunell
The right hon. Gentleman asked me a question and the answer is no, I do not accept that at all. When we exchanged words in Committee, I thought that this was an outrage, so I am glad that it has been downgraded a little. The important point is that the decision a local authority takes should be transparent, so that the local electorate are aware of it and the local authority are accountable to them. We have accepted the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East put to the Committee, and Government amendments 130 and 131 deal with that.
Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con)
Does the Minister expect to give any guidance under the powers in the Bill on what a code of conduct might contain, or will it simply be left to the local authority to do its best?
Andrew Stunell
The Local Government Association has given notice that it sees itself as—I do not want to put words into its mouth and say the custodian—the focal point for ensuring that a standard code of practice is available. I would have thought that the huge majority of local authorities will continue to have a published and open code of conduct. Indeed, I should have thought that it would reflect adversely on the reputation of a local authority if it chose not to do so. However, the right place for that decision to be taken is in that local authority in the light of the views of its electorate; it is not something that should be imposed from above.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
In Northern Ireland, we have a stringent code of conduct for local authorities. Has the Minister had any discussions with local authorities in Northern Ireland on using that blueprint for a code of conduct under these proposals?
Andrew Stunell
I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is aware that the Bill is not applicable in Northern Ireland. Currently, every local authority in England has to have a statutory code of conduct, so we are not for want of an example. We are saying that there should be flexibility about the shape and nature of the code, and that that flexibility should be exercised by the local authority.
On EU fines and infractions, I assure the House and the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South that we will ensure that any process to pass on an EU fine is fair, reasonable and proportionate, and we will consult on that. We will pass on a fine only if an authority has clearly caused or contributed to causing it, and has the power to remedy the situation and can afford to pay. That is set out in new clauses 13 and 14 and in Government amendments 132 to 143. The measure is not about Ministers reclaiming every penny; it is about giving a strong encouragement not to incur fines in the first place. Local authorities must not be able to assume that if they make a mistake and are in the wrong, the UK taxpayer will pay their bill for them.
It is perhaps worth rehearsing what the process is. EU grants are given with conditions attached. At present, the monitoring, and therefore the risk, falls to central Government and their agencies. In the new, devolved world, that will not always be the case, and with the transfer of control has to come a transfer of risk. The Government do not seek to offload risks that are beyond a local authority’s control—mention has been made of air pollution targets and so on.
That will all be set out in a policy statement, and I can say today that we are making good progress on that. I am placing in the Library a paper from the Greater London authority that has emerged from some of our earlier discussions, and I would very much welcome comments on it. We do not necessarily agree with every single part of it, but it will provide a strong basis for discussion over the next few weeks and we are committed to taking that discussion forward. We have also engaged with the Local Government Association and will continue to do so.
We debated fire and rescue authorities in Committee, and our amendments 92 and 93 are a response to the concerns that the Opposition raised and feedback that we have received from industry partners. They relate to authorities’ powers to charge for attending persistently malfunctioning or wrongly installed automatic fire alarms. It is not in dispute that there should be such a provision for non-domestic premises, but the point was made that domestic premises would also be caught by that power, and probably wrongly so. The amendments simply remove that option from fire and rescue authorities.
We also discussed pay accountability in Committee, and we undertook to return to the House on the matter of greater accountability on low pay in light of Will Hutton’s report on fair pay in the public sector. His report made some clear recommendations, particularly about the benefit of setting decisions on senior pay in the context of the pay of the rest of a body’s work force. Some of the Opposition’s amendments are in the same tone. We are sympathetic to that idea, particularly the potential for linking lower pay with senior pay, and we will consider the best way to take that forward. If necessary, we will return to it in the other place. As we do so, we will remain mindful of the level of burden placed on authorities and ensure that pay decisions remain ones for the appropriate local employer to take and are not dictated by us.
On the other hand, we do not think it would be helpful to use the Bill to address the pay of contracting bodies. Councils, the voluntary sector and businesses, especially small firms, have called on the Government to remove unnecessary burdens and break down barriers in local authority contracting, not increase them. That does not prevent a local authority from developing a local policy to ensure that bodies with which it contracts are open about their rates of pay as a matter of contract. That should remain an issue for local decision making, not central determination.
We have a very large group of amendments, and you no doubt have a large group of Members wishing to speak, Mr Deputy Speaker. I apologise to the House on the one hand for taking so long and on the other for dealing with some very important topics only in skeleton form. I am pleased to move new clause 12, and in due time I will wish to move the other Government new clauses and amendments in the group. I undertake to listen carefully to Members’ contributions as the debate proceeds.
Barbara Keeley
I am glad that Ministers are still so interested in my website—it makes it worth all the effort of keeping it up to date.
I shall speak first to amendments 36 and 37, which are related to new clause 12. They are intended to protect a list of the most important duties of local councils from the powers that the Secretary of State wants to take in clause 5(1) and (2). I should remind the Minister that he did not answer my question about new clause 12 not applying to clause 5(2). I see that Ministers are looking at the Box and seeing if they can find some inspiration over there.
As I said on Second Reading, the Secretary of State’s power under clause 5(1) and (2) is chilling, because it would allow him to
“amend, repeal, revoke or disapply”
any statutory provision. The Government can keep calling that barrier-busting, but it will still end up being the same swingeing power. The difficulty for those who are opposed to it is that it would leave local councils and the people who use their services at the mercy of the ideology of the current Government and Secretary of State. I know from the debates that we had in Committee that some of the Ministers were opposed to giving Secretaries of State such a level of power in previous local government Bills, and spoke against it. Perhaps they would like to think about why they have had such a change of heart.
Since our debates on the Bill started, the Department has launched its review of the statutory duties of local councils. That means that the nature of the power in question, and how it will be used to sweep away what councils are starting to see as burdens, is now much more under the spotlight. The Government’s focus on duties as “burdens” has caused alarm and great concern to people who rely on the services of their local council. Their concern about the extent of the Secretary of State’s powers to sweep away councils’ duties is greater because of the language that the Government are using to describe the vital duties on which people depend. In the review, councils and the public were asked to specify the bureaucratic burdens that they wished to throw away. In fact, Ministers have allowed all the duties of councils to be listed, and voted on, as “burdens”, “red tape” or “bureaucratic barriers”. In using that language, they do not appear to have considered the importance of many of the statutory duties of local councils.
Strangely, we now find ourselves bartering to try to find out which particular duties might be safe and protected from the Secretary of State. The Department’s website states that the only duties that might be protected are those on libraries and child protection, but the Under-Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill), ventured in a recent letter to The Guardian that allotments were also safe. It is not reasonable to have only vague reassurances on three out of all the duties of local councils. We have therefore tabled amendments 36 and 37, and I say to Ministers that they must be clearer about protecting the vital duties of local councils—duties that legislation has created, which provide important protections and services on which people rely—from the power that the Secretary of State wants to
“amend, repeal, revoke or disapply”
any statutory provision.
Members should make no mistake about it: there are real concerns about that power. Professor Luke Clements is a leading expert on community care law, and in an article about the statutory provisions that could be swept away by the new power, he stated:
“The list includes large swathes of the Mental Health Act 1983, the Children Act 1989 as well as virtually every community care and carers statute. The suggestion that protecting children or frail elderly people from abuse could be…‘burdensome’ is further evidence of the coalition government’s disdain for the very notion of a welfare state.”
He said of the Government’s approach:
“It is a contempt that has already created a largely lawless regime where fundamental rights, such as the right to a face-to-face assessment”
and
“the right to have assessed needs met regardless of resources…are openly flouted. It is a regime that fuels the daily news stories of disabled, elderly and ill people being failed by public bodies, and experiencing neglect and extreme indignity. In the face of this, the response of the coalition government is not to strengthen the law, but to suggest that it be trashed.”
Andrew Stunell
I have really been disappointed by the hon. Lady’s remarks, which are a travesty of what is in prospect. I spent perhaps a little too long in my speech explaining precisely what new clause 12 will do and making it absolutely clear what it will not do. I am sorry to say that she is making it up, which is not good.
Incidentally, I can answer the hon. Lady’s question about clause 5(2)—as she suggested, inspiration has arrived. It relates only to overlapping powers, so by definition it will not change local authority powers or duties because it will take away only one of the overlapping powers.
Graham Jones
I accept what the Minister has said on the record, which he made absolutely clear. The new clause has no value, but I would say—
Graham Jones
No.
The Minister of State had the opportunity before to say what he has said this evening, but there are real issues—[Interruption.] That is fine, but it is the Government who are putting forward their new clause, which now has no teeth.
In conclusion—because I was wrapping up—the LGA says that the proposal will be problematic to enforce. What are the Government enforcing? How can local government increase recycling rates for residents? If action is to be taken, it will hit some of the poorest communities that have higher recycling rates, not some of the wealthiest ones, and the same goes for landfill taxes. I appreciate Ministers’ comments, but as far as I am concerned, I am delighted that all the teeth have been taken out of this proposal.
Gavin Barwell
I want to comment briefly on three of the amendments that have been discussed so far.
I have a huge amount of sympathy for the arguments advanced by my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) about a recall procedure for councillors, but, although I hope that the Government will reflect on the points that have been made and that such a procedure will be introduced eventually, I think it would be inappropriate for the House to introduce it before introducing a similar procedure for Members of Parliament.
I found it incredible that the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley)—who would not take an intervention—should criticise the Government for forcing referendums on the governance structure of local authorities, given that the Government whom she supported forced virtually every council in the country to adopt executive systems of governance with no recourse to referendums.
Finally—I am conscious of the time—I strongly support the new clause about Sunday trading that was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies). He and I do not agree on many issues, but we agreed on two today, sentencing and Sunday trading. I also had a lot of sympathy with the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) about first past the post. He spoke of the need for consistency, but his amendment would introduce a big inconsistency between the Mayor of London and other elected mayors. The Government should consider that issue in the context of the results of the referendum.
Andrew Stunell
The Localism Bill does what it says on the label. In Committee we tested and tweaked it, and today we are taking another step forward. I urge my hon. Friends and Opposition Members to give—