Football Governance Bill [HL]

Lord Shamash Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 13th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shamash (Lab)]

My Lords, I am delighted to be able to follow my dear noble friend Lord Triesman; he is now not in his place, but I was delighted to see him here at all.

I have to congratulate the Government and my noble friend the Minister on introducing this Bill so early in this Parliament. Listening to this debate, it is clear there is considerable interest across the House, and it is clear from the speeches that preceded my contribution that the introduction of the regulator will be, on the whole, welcomed.

I must declare an interest in that I am currently a director of Manchester United Supporters Trust and was its former chairman over the past decade. It is a substantial trust with over 100,000 members. It came into being following the takeover in 2005—which my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Harlech, referred to—by the American family, the Glazers, who used a leveraged buyout to acquire the club. I was the proud owner of a number of shares at the time of the takeover and I felt, like many other fans who held shares, that I owned part of the club—albeit probably only a blade of grass on the pitch, but it was my blade of grass. However, company law required that the minority shares had to be sold to the Glazer family. The funds received by the fans who were shareholders were in a considerable number of cases put into what was then known as the Phoenix fund, and the cash has been managed by our trust for the benefit of the fans as a whole.

In context, following the highly publicised leveraged buyout, the debt at the club at the time was £500 million, which I think was referred to earlier. As I understand from recent reports in the New York Times, that debt at the moment is approaching £1 billion. As I have said, I welcome the creation of the regulatory framework set out in the Bill, but a question I pose for the Minister and indeed the Government is whether the independent regulator would have the power to interfere with such a leveraged buyout of the kind that took place in 2005.

Regulation in football was first raised in 2014 in the lead-up to the 2015 general election. I was involved in setting up a specialist working party to formulate the policy that included fan ownership. Reform of football governance was subsequently in the Labour Party’s manifesto for the 2015 general election, and I subsequently learned that in fact it would have been in the Queen’s Speech if Labour had won that election. As has been discussed this evening, this new Government, following the fan-led review under the chairmanship of Dame Tracey Crouch, have now laid the Bill before this House.

At the core of football are of course the fans. There are many types of fans, and indeed the Bill does not seek to set out the impossible task of trying to define what a fan actually is. Fans range from those who sit on a sofa and watch matches regularly to others like me who have season tickets, have had them for many years and attend games, in my case not just at Old Trafford but at grounds across the country and indeed in Europe. I have been a fan for over 70 years.

The Bill sets out fan consultation as a condition on a club and the issues on which a club must consult. Consultation is to be with

“persons elected by the club’s fans to represent their views, or … persons otherwise appearing to the IFR—

that is, the regulator—

“to represent the views of the club’s fans”.

Quite rightly, the Bill does not seek to be prescriptive. However, it does not refer to the substantial network of supporters’ trusts that exist: of 92 league clubs, 73 have what could be described as community benefit societies in the form of supporters’ trusts. To be added to this number are similar trusts within the National League and below. I ask the Minister to recognise that supporters’ trusts in my experience are democratically elected, have a membership and constitution, and in many cases are regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority and operate under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014.

Active trusts in many cases properly and fully engage with their clubs, and a growing number of them have fan advisory boards made up of members of the trust and those of the club. I am concerned that, if there is not a properly established trust that the club could deal with, there is the likelihood that a group of fans could set themselves up and the club could deal with them as they may offer a less critical view of the way the club is run. This of course will be a matter for the regulator through guidance and further consultation with those involved in the administration of various fan groups and the club in the future.

I am delighted that the Bill is now before the House and I am aware that most supporters will welcome the creation of the independent football regulator as being to the benefit of football in England, so that football can continue to make a major contribution to the economy of the country with its huge popularity across the globe.

Football Governance Bill [HL]

Lord Shamash Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 9th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)]

My Lords, I speak to my Amendment 78, and I would like to begin with a quote, that

“there is no reference to players as a group the regulator should co-operate with … There is not a single mention of players, even though they are the main employment group within the regulated clubs. This means that the decisions that the regulator makes could have a tangible impact on their employment. For example, if the regulator exercises its powers to withdraw approval for a competition or refuses a licence to a club owner, there would be a direct consequence on the contracts of and conditions for players … Just as with fans, the professional game could not exist without players, so will the Minister explain why players are not mentioned in this part or elsewhere in the Bill?”—[Official Report, Commons, Football Governance Bill Committee, 16/5/24; col. 129.]

Those are the words of the then shadow Sports Minister, Stephanie Peacock MP, on 16 May, when the original version of this Bill was in Committee in another place. For that reason, I know that I am pushing at an open door here, because Stephanie Peacock is of course now the Minister for Sport.

As shadow Sports Minister, Stephanie Peacock not only robustly argued in favour of her amendment but then forced the matter to a vote, which, as is always the case with opposition parties in Committee in the other place, was lost. Therefore, it was both surprising and disappointing to myself and a number of others to find that this Bill—amended only in minor ways from the Tory Bill—did not include mention of players. Ms Peacock’s amendment in May this year included five categories of people and organisations to be added to Clause 8. I have taken out four of those so as to focus on much the most important: namely, the players.

Jock Stein, one of the greatest managers ever, once said, “Football without fans is nothing”. He was right, of course. As evidenced in 2020 during the pandemic, all games at the top level in England were played behind closed doors, and I defy anyone to say it was worth the effort. We all know it was driven shamelessly by the financial aspect of it, but as an experience it was, exactly as Mr Stein said, nothing.

Important as fans are—I am very much one of them—it was shown to be possible to play matches without them. Try doing the same without players. The players are not simply another stakeholder group in football, and it is fatuous, not to say insulting, that they should be categorised as such. Decisions made by the regulator have the potential directly to impact their careers and their contracts, as Stephanie Peacock said. It should not be left up to the regulator to decide whether they need to engage with them or not. In essence, this is, I believe, an employee relations issue rather than a football issue, as is the need for players to be viewed as distinct from other stakeholder groups.

The PFA—Professional Footballers’ Association—represents a very high proportion of the professional players in the Premier League and the English Football League. You might think that young men earning millions of pounds each season would not feel the need to join a trade union. You might, but according to the PFA, membership among Premier League players is close to 100%. Based on my experience as a full-time trade union official, that is remarkable in any sector of employment. But for such wealthy individuals to have calculated that there is benefit to them in becoming part of a union and working collectively, and having people work on their behalf, is astonishing. To suggest that players and their trade union should not be a group of people that the regulator should—to quote Clause 8—“proactively and constructively engage” with is frankly a nonsense.

The absence of players and their representatives constitutes a clear and obvious lacuna in this Bill so, with respect, I say to my noble friend, please sort it.

[Lord Shamash (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendment 80 in my name seeks to include football supporters’ trusts on the face of the Bill to ensure that they are consulted on all matters relating to fan engagement as set out in the Bill. It is not intended to restrict the regulator, as the Bill states, or to restrict other fan groups being involved.

I declare an interest in that I am currently a director of Manchester United Supporters Trust and was its former chairman over the past decade. It is a very substantial trust with over 100,000 members, and initially came into being in 1998 in opposition to the Murdoch bid for the club, followed by the bitterly opposed leveraged takeover by the Glazer family in 2005. However, in the last decade, the trust has developed a constructive relationship with senior management which delivers fan consultation and representation for supporters. Supporters’ trusts are uniquely equipped to perform this role, and every club would benefit from engaging with such a body.

Currently, there are 149 supporters’ trusts across the football pyramid: 16 in the Premier League, 18 in the Championship, 20 in League One, 15 in League Two and 80 in non-league football. Most, if not all, trusts are registered with the FCA and operate under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014.

I invite my noble friend the Minister to accept this amendment on the basis that supporters’ trusts provide an existing substantive platform for fans to have a voice in club decisions. It is a structure that should be utilised to the benefit of football as a whole. It is an existing and vibrant structure that I envisage the independent regulator would welcome working with from the outset.

It is important for the Committee to appreciate the many facets of supporters’ trusts and how they contribute to football as a whole. Invariably, the trusts are democratically elected, operating, as I have said, under FCA-approved constitution and rules. They help to ensure the interests of the wider fan base and community they represent. This is vital in sustaining the contact with fans and in the case of smaller clubs.

Trusts often emphasise local community values and initiatives. The trust can help to maintain strong ties with the local fan base, fostering a sense of belonging and identity. This is relevant to the Premier League as well as non-league clubs. Many clubs have charitable foundations that, in my experience, work closely with their trusts. Foundations work with local schools, using their links with the club to assist teachers in their roles. Many also support local food banks.

Trusts, by raising funds through their membership and donations, can contribute to the financial health of the club. This can be particularly beneficial in the smaller clubs that face financial difficulties, as has been seen in recent history, where trusts have been instrumental in saving their clubs.

Trusts invariably advocate for transparency in club operations, hoping to make club management accountable. This can, of course, lead to better governance practices and more ethical decision-making. The Bill, of course, very helpfully and constructively sets out the criteria which clubs and fan groups have to take into account. Supporters’ trusts wish to focus on the long-term sustainability of their club rather than short-term profits, which is often the case for the owners of clubs. This perspective can lead to more responsible management of resources. Where supporters’ trusts are represented on club boards, they can influence strategic decisions, ensuring that the fan perspective is included in the governance, which, of course, is crucial.

All fans can join trusts, and this can promote inclusivity within the club, assuring that the fans, regardless of background, have the opportunity to participate in club activities and governance. As has been seen in times of crisis, such as financial troubles or ownership disputes, trusts can mobilise fan support to advocate for the club’s best interests, potentially influencing outcomes in the interests of supporters and the club as a whole. An obvious recent example was the attempt by a few clubs, including Manchester United, to establish a closed European super league.

Overall, supporters’ trusts enhance the governance of football clubs by fostering a more inclusive, accountable and community-oriented approach. Therefore, with great respect to my noble friend the Minister, I urge that this amendment be accepted.

[Lord Mann (Lab)]

My Lords, my Amendment 81 stands in contrast to my noble friend’s amendment, which is very exclusive in suggesting that the only format of supporters’ group should be the trust format. In this country and, indeed, across the rest of the world there is a huge range of different kinds of football cultures and football groups.

I should declare an interest, of course. Although I have no pecuniary interest whatever—I own no shares, and I receive no dividends or payments—I have the joy, or the pain, of being able to discuss with my many thousands of members the trials and tribulations of Leeds United Football Club. A number are in this Chamber even this evening—more than one.

However, there are different kinds of fan group. If the Government—or, at a later stage, the House—wish to see the regulator having to liaise with fan groups, then in essence there is a range of choices. It could be randomised—whoever the regulator chooses, but that seems neither appropriate nor efficient. It could be, as my noble friend suggests, exclusively for the trusts, or it could be, as I am suggesting, any fan group that has some kind of democratic structure. The reason for a democratic structure is that you are then representing somebody rather than representing yourself.

Football Governance Bill [HL]

Lord Shamash Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 16th December 2024 Lords Chamber

I commend noble Lords for these amendments, many of which are thoughtful and helpful, and I hope that the Government will continue to engage constructively on these issues. As we move towards Report stage, we need to ensure that fan engagement is embedded in a way that respects the individuality of clubs while upholding the principles of transparency, respect and accountability. I look forward to discussions on how we can ensure that the amendments in this group can achieve their intended goals.

[Lord Shamash (Lab)]

My Lords, I am a very happy Manchester United fan. The last few minutes of yesterday’s game were bliss; they reminded us of what happened in 1999 when we won the treble.

I rise to talk again in relation to supporters’ trusts. I have been pressing this; I pressed it in debate the last week and, indeed, at Second Reading. The supporters’ trusts should be there on the face of the Bill. As I mentioned last week, there are 149 supporters’ trusts in the pyramid. Nearly all of them are recognised by the FCA and they operate under the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act.

I ask my noble friend the Minister: why reinvent the wheel? We have a structure that works; it works very well indeed. I would ask that my amendment, “including supporters’ trusts”, be accepted. We understand—we are not trying to be prescriptive—that there will be other fan groups and people who might like to become involved in communicating with the club, but, having supporters’ trusts that exist throughout the UK, it would be a very sensible and easy move to make. I hope this amendment will be accepted.

[Lord Mann (Lab)]

My Lords, there is nothing wrong with supporters’ trusts, but working-class fans have other models as well, historically and currently; that voice also needs to be heard. Supporters’ trusts are one model and should be empowered, but they are only one model for football.

I have eight amendments here more or less doing the same thing. There is an issue here, which the noble Baroness, Lady Brady, alluded to and spoke to, with the fan advisory boards. There is a fundamental choice here, and I would advise the Government to be careful with the politics of this. Some clubs are choosing the fans to go on their fan advisory board; it is not the fans choosing the representation but the clubs. That is one model, but it is many miles away from the Crouch review. It is the total opposite of what fans would hope to see. The fans in this country have not gone for the German model and demanded comparative boards, 50% et cetera, supervisory boards, and that kind of power in relation to the clubs.

I have helped to establish a range of Jewish supporters’ groups. These are Jewish supporters who want no more than to be meeting up with other Jewish supporters of their club—full stop. But they do hope as well to be able to give the occasional bit of advice, sometimes very productively and positively, to their club—if the club does not refuse, as one has, to recognise a large group of Jewish supporters who simply want to be themselves—and, if there are any issues, they want to be listened to. It might be about the provision of kosher food, or ticketing policy, or that there are a lot of fixtures on a Friday night and people are finding it difficult to be religiously observant and still be able to go. It might be to do with giving advice on issues relating to racism within the stadium. On issues like these, this is a group that should be listened to; it is not a group that should have the power to tell a club what to do.

But the idea that fan advisory boards should be chosen by the club is anathema to fans. Fans are perfectly capable of choosing their own representatives. Let us think about what will happen if this Bill goes forward and the regulator has powers, but clubs can still say to fans, “No, we will choose who the fan voices will be. We will pick persons 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. They will be there under our criteria. You, the fans, will have no say”. What will happen is that conflict will emerge, and the Government will not come out of the conflict well. The perception will be that the Government had the chance to ensure this.

Let us think about a supporters’ trust, made up of people giving of their free time to organise. As a member, you elect whoever to be your representatives, and they are then your representative; it is not the club coming in and saying, “No, we will pick Lord Shamash because we love Lord Shamash. If he is elected, that is all well and good because he represents what we would like to see in Manchester United”. That would be an invidious position for anyone to be in. I hope the Minister can give some reassurance that the fan voice on those big issues—moving the ground, changing the colour, changing the name—will actually be a fan voice. If it is not, then government and Parliament will become unpopular at some stage.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Maude of Horsham (Con)]

I would like to make a short point, but it is an important one that has barely got a mention. Football clubs have a very strong interest in consulting their fans. The fans are their customers. The truth is that, if you look across the gamut of clubs all the way down the pyramid, the composition of those fan bases will be very different. Broadly speaking, the higher up the pyramid you go, the more dispersed the fan base will be. Famously, almost none of Manchester United’s fans actually live in Manchester.

[Lord Shamash (Lab)]

Do you think I should get up and answer that?

[Noble Lords]

No.

Football Governance Bill [HL]

Lord Shamash Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 18th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bach (Lab)]

My Lords, this is the first time I have spoken in Committee. I am rather late to it but I spoke at Second Reading. On this matter of history, it is not usual that I come out in support of a previous Conservative Prime Minister, but the truth is that once the fans showed their feelings—I agree that they did—the then Prime Minister, within a short number of hours or certainly days, quickly came up and took over the issue, as it were, on behalf of his Government. That was well done and, along with the fans’ disagreement, it had a profound effect on the clubs, some more reluctantly than others, which withdrew from that mad scheme.

[Lord Shamash (Lab)]

My Lords, I specifically remember this as it involved Manchester United. It is propitious that the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, has arrived as it was his brother, the then Prime Minister, who said “I would drop a legislative bomb on this proposal”. Do your Lordships remember the language? That is precisely what happened and it killed it dead.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

We have interventions on interventions here and we should move on.