NHS: Discharge to Assess Policy

Lord Markham Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, with the permission of my noble friend Lady Wheeler, and on her behalf, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in her name on the Order Paper.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)]

It is vital for carers to be involved in critical decisions regarding their loved ones’ care. The Government will publish shortly new statutory discuss charge guidance, which will include the new statutory requirement to involve carers. NHS bodies and local authorities will be able to use that guidance as a resource to support carers from the point of hospital admission through to post-discharge care and support.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, today’s State of Caring report from Carers UK paints a bleak picture, with one in two carers still not involved or properly listened to over their loved ones’ discharge from hospital. When will the Government live up to the promise of their Health and Care Act to properly involve both patients and carers in moving from hospital to social care? While there is repeated reference from Ministers to the promise of a £500 million adult social care fund, intended to support the discharge process, when will this reach the front line?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I welcome the Carers UK report that came out today. It has provided much valued information which will be part of the information that we are using as part of the guidance we will be putting out shortly. It has taken some time because we want to get it right. We have involved NHSE, local authorities and carers, and we are using this report and the Carers UK conference that will take place on Thursday as vital inputs to make sure that we get that guidance out properly. As the report rightly states, the fact that 50% are not getting the guidance and support they need clearly shows that more needs to be done in this space. On the £500 million discharge fund, that has now been agreed, and I understand that that will go out very shortly—in a matter of days.

[Lord Laming (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister will recognise that any one of us at any time could suddenly have a major caring role thrust upon us —completely unplanned and unexpected. Carers make a huge contribution in our society and to the success of the National Health Service. Can the Minister assure the House that he will do everything he can to ensure that the contribution carers make is recognised and respected and that they are valued?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I agree. The legislation was put forward by the Government to recognise the vital role that carers have in all this. As we are all aware, there are 5.4 million carers out there, and they make a vital contribution, not only to the health of their loved ones but to the wider economy. Of those, 1.3 million receive the carer’s allowance; that shows how many of them do it completely unpaid. That is why I welcome the legislation, and I hope the guidance will show a big improvement in the way that carers feel that they are valued, because they truly are.

[Baroness Verma (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as in the register. First, carers need respite, so will the Government focus on ensuring that carers’ families are given respite so that they can have some quality of life, which, at the moment, is not readily available to them? Secondly, will my noble friend the Minister please look yet again at the minimum that councils can pay providers for delivering adult social care?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

First, I repeat that the needs of carers, including for a break, some respite, are very much understood. Part of the £292 million fund in 2022-23 is in place to try to give unpaid carers a week’s break. On the second part of the question, I will need to come back to my noble friend in writing.

[The Lord Bishop of Bristol]

My Lords, there are currently more than 160,000 vacancies in the social care sector, and, so often, the work of voluntary carers—relatives—needs the support of the wider social care system. Research from the TUC finds that one in three current care workers is likely to leave in the next few years due to low pay. It is very good to see the Government’s new Made with Care recruitment drive. However, please can the Minister set out what the Government are doing to address the concerns about pay and status in the social care system, particularly given the ongoing cost of living crisis?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Carers are well valued, and the need to ensure that our social care workers are well valued was the subject of a lengthy debate that your Lordships will remember from a couple of weeks ago. In that, we set out our plans for recruitment—not only domestically but internationally. I am glad to say that, even since then, we have seen a further uptick in the number of people recruited from overseas. Overall, it is understood that this is a vital area as part of the ABCD—which still exists. The “C” for carers is still very much part of this, so we are actively monitoring those recruitment plans and making sure that we are trying to provide every element of support.

[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)]

My Lords, I hope the Minister will forgive me for correcting his figures but the figure we generally use for unpaid carers now is nearer 10 million since the pandemic. In view of the truly shocking statistics in the Carers UK report that was published today—I am glad that the Minister said it will inform the department’s policy—have the Government given any consideration to revisiting the carers action plan, which went out of date two years ago, or, better still, reviving the idea of a national carers strategy? The first one was published more than 20 years ago.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My understanding is that part of the guidance will be informed by making sure that action for carers is there but, when I see the guidance, I will make sure that it covers those elements. I agree, as we all do, with the premise. If the carers action plan is out of date—again, this is legislation that this Government have brought forward to show that we understand the importance of carers—clearly it is something that I will take up.

[Baroness Tyler of Enfield (LD)]

My Lords, the recent survey conducted by Carers UK, which has already been alluded to, found that 63% of carers disagreed that they had been asked about their ability to provide care. Indeed, the report is littered with harrowing examples of carers who felt that the discharge of the person into their care had happened too quickly, as a result of which their condition got worse and they had to go back into hospital. Can the Minister say how the NHS will collect both qualitative and quantitative data at the point of hospital discharge to ensure that undue pressure is not being placed on families?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As mentioned, the Carers UK report and its findings made for sobering reading. It clearly shows why it was right to delay the guidance until we had that input; again, that will be followed up at the conference on Thursday. I think we all agree on the premise that we want to discharge people into their home quickly because that is the best place they can be, provided that they are medically able to be there. It is then in their home that the assessment takes place. Clearly, that must happen in a timely fashion and with the carer’s involvement but, again, the survey showed that that is not being done quickly enough in many cases. I accept that there are many things we need to learn from this but I think we can all agree on the direction: it is right to discharge people quickly provided that back-up and support are there to ensure that they have what is needed.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, as one who has been a carer in the recent past, I ask my noble friend the Minister to double-check that, before any patient leaves any form of NHS care, they have had a thorough checklist of every conceivable thing, including medicines, vaccination or any other procedure that has been undertaken on that patient.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

My noble friend makes the point well. I agree. It is my understanding that such a checklist exists but I will check that and come back to him.