Ten-Year Drugs Strategy

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Monday 6th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on an extremely good question, and a very topical one. She will be pleased to hear that this morning I met the Korean ambassador and that country’s superintendent of police, with whom we do an awful lot of work, not least on international money flows. I raised in particular my interest in the research and invention by a Korean research institute of a drugs tag—a wearable device that detects drug consumption in somebody’s sweat. We are very interested in the technology and have a fund that we can invest in such technological developments. She is right that, on sobriety ankle tags, we are seeing 97% compliance, and we think that there is a role for such checking in drugs.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lefarydd. I know and the Minister knows—we all know—that penalising drug users does not save lives, and the uncoordinated criminal justice system that we suffer makes a bad situation worse in Wales, where drug deaths have increased by 78% in the last 10 years. The devolution of justice to Wales would allow a whole-system approach to offender rehabilitation. If that is good enough for London and for Manchester, when will it be good enough for those families who presently have to grieve in Wales?

[Kit Malthouse]

I am afraid that the devolution of justice in Wales would not achieve the right hon. Lady’s suggested objectives, not least because the drug supply lines into Wales run from forces in England—from Liverpool, the west midlands and London. A co-ordinated approach to the problem is required from a policing point of view, making sure that we enforce consistently across the country where we can. My view is that enforcement in Scotland, for example, is held back by that lack of co-ordination. We would like to try to improve it. We need to work more closely together, but we cannot pretend that this problem affects the home nations separately. We must work together.

Prison Officers: Pension Age

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 16th November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Gordon Henderson]

Those stress levels will, of course, frequently have an impact upon both physical and mental health. Prison officers have to face all the challenges already mentioned, while also, like all emergency workers, working shifts and facing a working day in which almost anything can happen—including potentially having to make life or death decisions under fast-moving circumstances. There is evidence that working a shift pattern can be harmful to physical and mental health, and may shorten life expectancy, which in turn erodes the ability of officers to enjoy a well-earned retirement. The longer prison officers are forced to work, the more harm it is likely to do to their health. For that reason alone, it is beyond understanding why they are currently being forced to work six years longer than a police officer or a fire fighter, and why younger prison officers face the prospect of working until they are 68.

It is possible that the Minister will remind me that police officers have to contribute 12% towards their pension, while firefighters contribute 14%. In response, I remind her that those emergency workers get paid a far higher salary than prison officers. That leads me—

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Gordon Henderson]

I will carry on, because I have been told I have to shut up.

That leads me neatly to an important question: is it not possible that prison officers might be willing to make a higher pension contribution for an earlier pension date? The only way to answer that question would be for the Government to agree to hold new talks with the Prison Officers Association. Will my hon. Friend the Minister, for whom I have immense respect, agree to such a meeting?

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Sir Charles. I congratulate the hon. Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Henderson) on securing the debate. I would like to put on the record that I am the adviser to the co-chair of the justice unions parliamentary group, particularly at this time when it is important to refer to the register of interests.

Do the Government really think it is sustainable to attract new prison officer recruits by asking them to work up to 50 years of their lives in prisons as they stand? On top of the dangerous conditions, poor pay and high pension age make for an unattractive proposition for new staff looking for a solid lifetime career—the sort of staff that the Prison Service would like to attract.

This dereliction of duty by the Government as an employer, combined with low pay, is helping to drive the current staffing crisis. Since 2010, the Ministry of Justice’s figures show that over 86,000 years of prison officer experience has been lost. In my area of north Wales, over 130 band-3 officers have left HMP Berwyn since April this year, costing £13,000, on average, to recruit and train. That amounts to £1.7 million of public money lost and wasted. These key workers are moving on to better paid work that does not involve abuse and assaults on a daily basis.

We saw this year how dangerous the job can be when an officer suffered a near fatal attack at HMP Swansea, which prompted calls for an inquiry into staff safety. The most recent independent monitoring board report noted that there were 258 assaults on staff at HMP Berwyn, 22 of which were classed as serious. If I may, I will briefly put on the record something from an exit interview, to give an experience of staff. [Interruption.]

[Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

Order. May I ask the right hon. Member to save that quote? We will reconvene in 20 minutes, at 5.22 pm, because I think there will be two votes. We will give you an extra 10 seconds, Liz.

--- Later in debate ---

On resuming—

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I would like to put on the record a quote from an exit interview at HMP Berwyn, because it illustrates some of the situations that our prison officers face. The prison officer referred to keeping serious staff assaulters in the prison:

“I have personal experience of this, a prisoner who assaulted myself and another Officer was serving for an assault on an emergency worker. He was not a ‘do not return’ on the system. Some staff are forced to move off their wing while the prisoner who has carried out the assault continues to reside on the wing. Staff are not taken into consideration.”

However, Ministers have never provided any evidence to show that frontline prison officers over the age of 60 can work safely in such dangerous working environments. A high pension age disproportionately impacts on older and female staff, who are still required to adhere to a universal fitness test. The situation is causing resentment and accusations of unfair treatment to women and of discrimination on the basis of sex. The equality analysis of the fitness test by Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service shows that 100% of the people who failed both the standard and adjusted tests for the third time were female, which is a shocking statistic. It is also shocking that around 66% of officers who fail the test for the first or second time are women, given that less than 40% of the prison staff are female. Given those statistics, how can a pension age of 68 be fair to women and older workers who struggle physically to stay in the job?

I want to close by talking about pension contributions. I understand that this is among the issues that prison officers are prepared to discuss with the Minister—I wish that she were in her place, but I am sure I will have an opportunity to raise the issue with her in a moment—although it also has to be recognised that their salaries need to be far higher than they are at present, because they do not reflect the same situation as that for the police force. I am proud to support the “68 is too late” campaign.

[Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

It is not my duty to defend colleagues, but I put on the record the fact that the Divisions went on for some time and people are stuck in the Lobby. This is an issue that I need to raise with various Committees, such as the Procedure Committee.

[Liz Saville Roberts]

It was a comment made in the heat of the moment.

[Sir Charles Walker (in the Chair)]

I know you did not mean it like that. I, too, am disappointed that the Minister is not present.

--- Later in debate ---

[Liz Saville Roberts]

I appreciate that in this context, when a request is made to the Minister, how the Minister responds is a matter of great sensitivity. Will she commit to meet the Prison Officers Association? It is very clear in its ask for negotiations on the pension age to be reopened. If she could commit to meet the POA to discuss the matter further, that would be very welcome.

[Victoria Atkins]

As I have said, I have already met the Prisoner Officers Association. I hope I was very clear when we first met that this was the beginning of a constructive and positive relationship. I will happily meet the POA, of course, and I would be delighted if my hon. Friend the Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey would join me in that meeting. I want to be frank, though. I do not want there to be any claims of inadvertently misleading people. I cannot commit today to discussions on pensions per se, but I am very happy—as I have said in the past, in fairness—to listen to the Prison Officers Association and its members. I am very keen to do so.

I am conscious of giving my hon. Friend time to respond. The retirement age for prison officers is linked to their pension arrangements. Prison officers are classified as civil servants, so are members of the civil service pension scheme. This is a defined-benefit scheme that pays a pension for life without investment uncertainties. It has one of the lowest employee contribution rates across the public sector; employers make contributions of 27% into the scheme on behalf of the employee.

When a pension age of 65 for new entrants was introduced in 2007, I am told it was done so following great consideration of the prison officer role and the demands it makes of prisoner officers and other operational roles in the civil service. I am told that the POA signed up to this scheme. Following the introduction of the alpha scheme in 2015, the normal pension age for prison officers is set at state pension age, which is between 65 and 68.

Afghan Citizens Resettlement Scheme

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Monday 25th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Victoria Atkins]

As I have said to other hon. Members, the fact is that we do not have British Army presence or consular presence in Afghanistan, and we are very much bound by those constraints now. I am very conscious of the impact on family members, and we have to try to find international solutions to this. We are working across the region with third countries to try to come up with solutions, but as I have said to the House repeatedly, there are no easy answers. I am very conscious of that in all our discussions.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Home Office Afghan citizens resettlement scheme has yet to make it clear how vulnerable Afghans who are still in Afghanistan will be categorised for eligibility. We know that there are particularly high-risk groups, including high-profile women, human rights activists, LGBT+ people and journalists. Could the hon. Lady explain how her Department is making full use of the information already provided by such desperate people to the Foreign Office’s public hotline and emergency email address? This is readily available evidence for identifying and prioritising those people who are most at risk. Will she also tell the House what has happened to this data?

[Victoria Atkins]

In relation to communications with the Home Office, as I said in the “dear colleague” letter, we are collating that data and will consider how to use it in due course. We have to look at how else we can support and bolster the claims that people put forward.

The right hon. Lady will appreciate that in a population of 40 million, half of whom are female, very many people will fall into the initial category of being vulnerable and scared for their existence. We cannot, however, accommodate 40 million people, so we have to make some incredibly difficult decisions. That is why it is taking us time to ensure that we get the scheme right. We are speaking to respected international organisations to ensure that we get the criteria and the methodology right, because as I said at the beginning, we want this scheme to work, and we want people, when they are here, to have the warm welcome of which we have spoken so much in recent weeks and months.

Sexual Misconduct in the Police

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I understand that 750 police officers have been accused of sexual misconduct between 2016 and 2020, including 40 from Welsh police forces. While the numbers are in the public domain, in many cases the outcomes of the accusations are not, even though, as I think everyone here would agree, there is evidently an issue of legitimate public interest. I appreciate that the inquiry will be independent, but I think the public want to know that there is consistency of sanctions when the findings uphold those accusations. Could the Minister make a commitment to me that, in his dealings with the independent inquiry, he will be urging it to consider that within the terms of reference?

[Kit Malthouse]

I am happy to consider that issue—absolutely. As I said earlier in my statement, we are about—I hope in the new year—for the first time to publish internal force statistics which will give us the full picture. At the moment, we publish national statistics to do with the IOPC inquiries in this area, but a number of allegations are dealt with internally in a force. Once we have that data and it is out in the public domain, we will be able to make a judgment, exactly as the right hon. Member says, about consistency of disposal, and consider what more needs to be done.

LGBTQ+ Afghan Refugees

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 21st September 2021 Westminster Hall

[Kate Osborne]

Yes, I do share those concerns. Again, I ask the Minister to address that point in her response.

The Nationality and Borders Bill plays into the situation. While the support for LGBTQ+ Afghan refugees from the UK Government is welcome, the provisions in the Nationality and Borders Bill will create significant dangers and obstacles to asylum and permanent residence for LGBTQ+ people facing similar levels of persecution. Many people who have been welcomed into this country’s LGBTQ+ community would not be here under this potential law and would not have had the chance to rebuild their lives free from homophobia, biphobia and transphobia. Enacting the Bill as it stands would undermine the UK Government’s commitment to being a global leader in advancing the rights and dignity of LGBTQ+ people. The UK is convening a global LGBTQ+ summit in 2022 and co-chairing the international Equal Rights Coalition of 42 states.

The inherent contradiction in the Bill is that those arriving by their own means are treated differently. They are penalised for making their own way here. Can the Minister confirm that LGBTQ+ people who travel via third countries will not be subject to different treatment, as set out in the Nationality and Borders Bill? The Bill also introduces provisions for accommodation centres outside the UK while people’s applications for asylum are assessed or, before that, while it is being decided whether their asylum claims are admissible in the UK.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Jarrow (Kate Osborne) on securing this debate. I am sure she will agree with me that there is great concern about the way in which the Bill paves the way for processing refugee applications from abroad, which will make it much more difficult for LGBTQ+ people to provide the evidence in the environment of the camps in which they are likely to find themselves. They may find abuse and threats to their person in those camps as well.

[Kate Osborne]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her contribution. These types of accommodation centres pose risks to LGBTQ+ people seeking asylum, such as those from Afghanistan. The isolation of offshore processing would also make it more difficult for LGBTQ+ people to prove their sexual orientation or gender identity, as required to be granted asylum. They would find themselves in an impossible situation—being compelled to hide their sexual orientation or gender identity from those around them, while at the same time being expected to provide evidence of it to the Home Office. Will the Minister work with Government colleagues to remove plans to put people in offshore accommodation centres, given the risk of violence and abuse towards LGBTQ+ people?

I will end by reiterating that the UK Government need to do all they can to help LGBTQ+ Afghan refugees to survive, resettle and thrive. It is crucial that the UK Government‘s policies are stress-tested against LGBTQ+ people’s safety in the evacuation and resettlement efforts.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 14th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Robert Buckland]

Again, the hon. Lady is way off the mark. The idea that there is not a clear plan was plainly negatived by yesterday’s statement from the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins). We have a very clear plan for Afghan judges. If the Scottish National party wishes to conduct a proper dialogue and a proper debate, I shall be interested to hear it; thus far, I do not hear it.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

22. What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness of the Parole Board’s communications with victims’ families when deciding whether offenders sentenced to life imprisonment should be released on licence.

[Robert Buckland]

It is for the probation service, through its victim liaison officers, rather than the Parole Board to notify victims of upcoming parole reviews and to ensure that they are able to exercise their statutory rights to make a victim personal statement or request licence conditions. It is understandably distressing when victims are told of an offender’s release, and we are therefore investing heavily in the probation service and its designated professional staff to give them further support.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

My constituent Michael McGrath is battling for justice for his family. His sister Rachel McGrath was murdered in a brutal stranger attack by Nicholas Burton in 1997. The trial judge described Burton as merciless and manipulative, and stated that no Home Secretary—as the arrangement was at the time—would ever be likely to allow his release. Rachel’s elderly parents were recently told that Burton would walk free next year. They have not even been able to make a victim statement, and they believe that correct procedure has not been followed. Will the Secretary of State please agree to a ministerial meeting with the family to help to ensure that they have all the information they need, and that their voice is heard and respected?

[Robert Buckland]

I thank the right hon. Lady for raising that extremely sensitive, distressing and frankly appalling case. Yes, of course I would be delighted to meet the family. May I also make a general point? We—and, in fairness, I think that this applies across all parties—are very keen for victims to be not spectators but participants in these matters, so their voice shall be heard, and we will continue to do everything possible to strengthen that voice.

End-to-end Rape Review

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Monday 21st June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Robert Buckland]

My right hon. Friend has very graphically illustrated some of the appalling experiences that many complainants and victims have undergone, and that is very much at the core of this review. We need to move away from the fixation with the credibility or believing of the victim and be much more about the perpetrator. If someone’s house is burgled, they do not expect to have a long trawl into their personal history and whether they had left an upstairs window unlocked or whether they had been drinking; it is about trying to find out who did it and who is responsible for the crime. It is that sort of approach that we need in rape and serious sexual offending.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The prevalence of rape myths and the lack of understanding of consent are known to act as barriers to justice for rape victims, and the Lord Chancellor rightly mentions the need for culture change. Will he therefore commit to bringing forward a strategy to provide training for the investigation of rape and alleged rape complaints, not only for the judiciary but for all jury members hearing such prosecutions?

Protecting the Public and Justice for Victims

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 9th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC) [V]]

Covid-19 and Westminster austerity simply serve to highlight the fundamental problem that Wales is the only nation in the UK without powers over its own policing and justice systems. Justice is devolved in Scotland and the north of Ireland, and there is no rational basis for Wales to be treated differently. Giving Wales powers over justice should not be simply for its own sake; it is a necessity to deliver real justice for victims and create a better, safer society. As Lord Thomas’s Commission on Justice in Wales report noted,

“there is no overall alignment of policy and spending which is essential if the criminal justice system is to be effective in reducing crime and promoting rehabilitation.”

That lack of alignment is starker than ever, with the Westminster Government pushing through the law and order policing Bill, which will do nothing to tackle the violent and squalid state of many prisons, aid rehabilitation or break the costly cycle of reoffending, which is estimated to cost £18 billion per year.

With the highest incarceration rate in western Europe, Wales cannot afford to lock more people up in prisons such as HMP Berwyn, where prisoner violence and assaults on prison staff increased by 143% and 25% respectively in 2020, or in the overcrowded Victorian-era Swansea prison, where 79% of prisoners report that they have a mental health problem, according to the prison inspectorate.

But there is an alternative. With the proper powers, we could build a holistic system that promotes protection and rights for victims, rehabilitation of offenders, and long-term prevention of crime. This would be brought about by integrating the justice system with Welsh social, health and education policy, and services alongside the growing body of distinct Welsh law. Last month’s Senedd election returned a super-majority for further powers and devolution to the people of Wales. It has a clear and strong mandate for the devolution of significant further powers from Westminster to Wales, which will have a real, positive impact on the lives of people across Wales. It is time to act and to deliver on that mandate. In today’s debate in the Senedd, Plaid Cymru is calling on the Labour Government in Cardiff to turn their rhetoric of home rule into reality and to deliver the stronger Wales and the stronger Senedd that the people have voted for by delivering on their manifesto commitment to pursue the devolution of justice.

Oral Answers to Questions

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Kit Malthouse]

I understand that my hon. Friend is concerned about the perception of his constituents, but I hope he will explain to them that we have quite interesting and clever plans to deal with offenders, not only in prison but after prison. For example, from early next year, we will GPS tag every single burglar who leaves prison on licence so that we are able to locate them, particularly when a burglary takes place in their community, so that we can at least rule out those prolific offenders in the future. There is lots that we can do in the criminal justice system that is much more smart than severe.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

A third of prisoners transferring from HMP Altcourse to HMP Berwyn last month tested positive for covid. I understand that Berwyn has requested a stop to transfers. Will the Secretary of State agree to that request, considering the extreme concerns about community infection?

[Robert Buckland]

The hon. Lady knows that, since the beginning of this pandemic, we have taken unprecedented steps. All new arrivals in prison receptions are quarantined as part of our strategy of compartment- alisation. We are also now testing new arrivals at HMP Berwyn. That is an additional measure that allows us to identify positive cases early and put the right precautions around those individuals. It is with testing that we can improve the way in which we administer the prison system through this crisis.

Sentencing White Paper

Liz Saville Roberts Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Robert Buckland]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to make the point that as a point of principle those people who have been grimly accustomed to and far too familiar with the criminal justice system in the accumulation of sentences merit stiffer terms of imprisonment or stiffer forms of sentence. The courts should and must take that into account when assessing the overall sentence to be passed. With regard to prolific offenders, the tightening up of the minimum term provisions that we are announcing today goes quite a significant way towards the desired outcomes that he and millions of other people seek.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

A stalker caught with a murder kit in his car could be charged only with a minor offence because the victim, Dr Ian Hutchinson, was unaware that he had been stalked for over four years. The offender, Thomas Baddeley, was sentenced in August but has already been released. Dr Hutchinson was not informed. Will the Secretary of State commit to a review of sentencing in stalking cases and to strengthening the rights of victims?

[Robert Buckland]

I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for taking up the baton on that issue from her predecessor in Dwyfor Meirionnydd. She is absolutely right to draw me back to a campaign that I helped to champion in order to criminalise stalking and to enhance and improve the law further. I will look at that case more carefully, if I may. I am sure that more work can be done, particularly with regard to awareness and training of police and prosecutors with regard to the true seriousness and invidious nature of stalking and what it can lead to.