Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill

Debate between Liz Kendall and Kirsty Blackman

2nd reading
Monday 3rd February 2025 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

As I said, the court will always look at whether the person needs a car for their job, but we cannot say that people are allowed to get away with fraud in different parts of the country. This is about getting money back. The measure is for people who have repeatedly refused to engage with us, and who we know have the money to repay what they owe. We can bring them to the table and have a discussion about that repayment. I think that most members of the public would think that that is totally reasonable and fair, and that is the new power that we will have.

Let me turn to the strong new safeguarding measures in the Bill. First, as I have said, there will be independent oversight in the Bill for the eligibility verification measure, and new powers for the DWP and the Public Sector Fraud Authority to investigate fraud. I will appoint an independent person to oversee how the EVM is being used and its effectiveness. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Queen’s Park and Maida Vale (Georgia Gould), will also appoint an independent person to review the use of the PSFA measures. Both will be required to provide reports to the Government, which will be published and laid before Parliament. His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services will oversee the investigation powers of the DWP and the Public Sector Fraud Authority. Any complaints about the use of the new search and seizure powers in the Bill will be referred to the Independent Office for Police Conduct.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

This is a genuine question on the power to request information: will the DWP be able to request information from charitable organisations that are perhaps providing support to people, or from Members of Parliament, who may be providing support to constituents who come through our door?

[Liz Kendall]

The eligibility verification measure is for banks and financial institutions. It has been tightly defined, which is one of the reasons the Information Commissioner has written his response now. The last Conservative Government just referred to third-party data. That was not a serious proposal, narrowly defined with proper independent oversight. We want the legislation to pass and be used proportionately and effectively. That is why we have included the proposals as drafted.

The second important point is that there will be a statutory code of practice on how the powers can be applied, which we will consult on during the passage of the Bill, to clearly define the scope and limitations. Thirdly, there will always be vulnerability checks for each individual under the new debt recovery powers to ensure that people are not forced to pay back money that they cannot afford. Last, but by no means least, final decisions affecting benefit entitlement will always be made by a human being. Those decisions will sit alongside the right to reviews and appeals—no ifs, no buts. Put together, I believe that those new safeguards will provide the reassurance that the public and some Members of this House need that the Bill’s powers are proportionate, safe and fair.

The Bill delivers the biggest upgrade to the DWP’s anti-fraud powers in more than 14 years. It brings in new powers to tackle fraud right across the public sector by empowering the Public Sector Fraud Authority, and not before time. Our approach is tough but fair: tough on criminals who cheat the system and steal from taxpayers; tough on people who refuse to pay back money; fair on claimants, by spotting and stopping errors earlier, helping to avoid people getting into debt; fair on those who play by the rules and rely on the social security system; and fair on taxpayers, by ensuring that every pound is spent wisely, responsibly and effectively on those who need it. We were elected on a mandate for change, and that is what the Bill will deliver.

Women’s State Pension Age Communication: PHSO Report

Debate between Liz Kendall and Kirsty Blackman

Tuesday 17th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

The pension schemes Bill will do precisely that. One of the really important things that we want to do is to consolidate smaller pension pots, so that they deliver better value and better results for those in retirement. That is exactly what that Bill will do. We want to see the very best for pensioners and also the very best for UK plc, which is why our pensions reforms are so important. My hon. Friend the Minister responsible for pensions will be delivering on that in the months and years ahead.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Anas Sarwar said that, under his leadership, WASPI women will finally receive the justice they deserve. Is the justice they deserve being paid less than their male counterparts throughout their career? Is the justice they deserve being sacked or forced to resign from their jobs when they had children? Is the justice they deserve the removal of the winter fuel payment? Why are the Labour Government absolutely determined to take every opportunity to screw over 1950s-born women?

[Liz Kendall]

I am proud of the last Labour Government’s record on helping the lowest-paid women pensioners and of the improvements that we delivered. This is not about that issue; this is about the way that the state pension age was communicated. If the hon. Lady wants a different approach, the SNP Government in Scotland can provide that by using the £4.9 billion settlement—the biggest ever in the history of devolution—that we have provided.

“Get Britain Working” White Paper

Debate between Liz Kendall and Kirsty Blackman

Tuesday 26th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

I have talked about what we aim to do to prevent mental health problems from happening in the first place, with more mental health support in schools and in the community. I see this as a fundamental overhaul of the way the DWP and the NHS work together, so that support to get people with mental health problems into the right jobs becomes part of what the NHS does, by putting employment advisers into the NHS. The individual placement and support service, which began under the last Government through the NHS, has shown quite phenomenal results—40% of people are in work after five years. Their use of the health service—the number of relapses and days they spend in hospital—are also reduced. That is better for work and for mental health. This requires a big change in the way we work, but my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary and I are determined to make that happen.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Many disabled or ill people were terrified by the Tories’ proposals to cut £3 billion from sickness benefit. Given that Labour is continuing that cut, will the Secretary of State promise to sign up to the principle of “nothing about us without us” and ensure that disabled people, those with ill health and those with lived experience of these systems are round the table, making the decisions on how this moves forward?

[Liz Kendall]

I have always been a big champion, including when I worked in social care, of working in partnership with people to get the decisions right first time. That is really important, which is why the Minister for Social Security and Disability and I are absolutely clear that we will work with disabled people in the relevant organisations to get this system right. I want to be really clear that the system is not working. People have to wait weeks on end to get an assessment, which often is overturned at tribunal. We do not do enough to prevent people from falling out of the workplace. Ninety per cent. of people who get back into work after a bout of sickness do so within the first year, but we do not use that opportunity to provide the help and support that they need. We need change. I understand how worried people are when they hear about change, but I think they would also say that the change needs to happen, and we are determined to put that in place.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Liz Kendall and Kirsty Blackman

Monday 7th October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Kendall]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point about learning the lessons from the last time we were in government and lifted more than 600,000 children out of poverty, and looking at similarities and differences, not least that there are more children growing up in poverty in households, whether in the private rented sector or in social housing, and that there are more children growing up poor in a household where somebody works. Getting and creating more good quality jobs, and helping families into those jobs, is absolutely a crucial part of our child poverty plan.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

Yet we have a situation where families with more children are impacted by the two-child cap and the benefit cap, and the Government are refusing to get rid of those things. At a stroke, they could lift thousands of children out of poverty and improve, overnight, their life chances. I appreciate the fact that the Government have the child poverty taskforce, but that is not making a difference to these children today, is it?

[Liz Kendall]

I am under no illusion about the impact 14 years of the Conservatives and the social security system has had on child poverty. That is why we are determined to take action across government to increase family incomes, drive down costs and, crucially, put in place long-term support, particularly in the early years. We will produce the strategy by spring. I am absolutely sure that every part of the plan will lift more children out of poverty.