Ukraine and Georgia

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Wednesday 15th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for asking an extremely good and valid question that puts the issue of Ukraine in regional context—in the context of the influence that Russia has sought to exert over its former satellite states. He is right that the frontline in Ukraine is turbulent. A full picture is yet to emerge, but we can be certain of our continued resolve to ensure that our Ukrainian friends prevail; that is the unavoidable direction of travel. The ongoing visit of Secretary Blinken reminds us of the remarkable heft and scale of western support, in which we play our part very proudly. The resolute support of the friends of Ukraine will help it to prevail, despite turbulence and Russia’s attempts to create a new dynamic on a very turbulent frontline.

The hon. Gentleman asks cogent questions about Georgia. He is right that Georgia knows more than any other country about the depredations of a Russian invasion, following the horrifying events of 2008. We are clear that Georgia has the sovereign right to pursue its own autonomous path. If it seeks to turn its eyes to the west—towards NATO membership, and maybe membership of the European Union—it is the sovereign right of Georgia to forge its own destiny. We will continue to co-operate in earnest and sincere partnership with the Georgians, with whom we have a very meaningful defence relationship. I have had the pleasure of visiting Tbilisi twice as a Foreign Office Minister, and of seeing the tremendous institutional work that we do with the Georgians, who have a fine defence tradition.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Do the Government share my view that just as Soviet failure in Afghanistan led, to a considerable extent, towards the downfall of the Soviet empire, Putin’s failure in Ukraine could have a similar effect on his future and ambitions; and that it is no coincidence that this renewed Russian attack takes place before the aid that America has belatedly decided to give Ukraine has had a chance to arrive?

[Leo Docherty]

The answer is yes. One can see the extraordinary mobilisation of the Russian state and society, and the huge expenditure that Putin is having to incur to maintain momentum in his failed military operation, as confirmation of long-term weakness.

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the shadow Minister.

[Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for securing this urgent question. It is 811 days since Putin began the full-scale illegal invasion of Ukraine. Russia has opened a renewed offensive in the Kharkiv region, but Ukrainians are continuing to fight with huge courage. The UK is totally united in support of Ukraine. The shadow Defence Secretary and shadow Foreign Secretary were in Kyiv for the last two days, and reaffirmed that Labour’s commitment to Ukraine is ironclad.

If Putin wins, he will not stop at Ukraine. That is why the Government have had, and will continue to have, Labour’s fullest support for military aid to Ukraine and for reinforcing NATO’s allies across eastern Europe. Every commitment of UK military aid since Putin invaded has had Labour’s fullest support, and that will continue. With a general election later this year, there may be a change in Government, but there will be no change to Britain’s resolve in standing with Ukraine, confronting Russian aggression, and pursuing Putin for his war crimes.

On Georgia, we are deeply concerned by the increased pressure on civil society freedoms and by the intimidation of protesters. The proposed draft law is not in line with democratic values, and risks taking Georgia away from the Euro-Atlantic aspirations of the Georgian people. What discussions has the Minister had with the US, the EU and other regional partners on the latest developments in Georgia? Is the UK putting Georgia on the agenda for the G7 meeting in Italy and the upcoming European Political Community meeting? What steps is he taking with our allies to counter Russian disinformation and hybrid activities in Georgia and across the Caucasus, the western Balkans and the rest of Europe?

What support has been given to help Ukraine build up its air defences to stop air and drone strikes on critical infrastructure, especially in the Kharkiv region? How much of the money committed to the international fund for Ukraine has been spent and how much is left to be spent? The UK will stand with the Ukrainians for as long as it takes for them to win.

[Leo Docherty]

I am glad that the hon. Gentleman pointed out the remarkable courage of our Ukrainian friends in their efforts to counter the new axis of advance in the Kharkiv region, and we sincerely welcome the continued cross-party support for Ukraine.

The hon. Gentleman expressed a concern, which we share, about the new law passed in Georgia. That is on the agenda of our discussions with allies; it is beyond my scope to comment on what might be on the agenda for the G7 or the EPC, but it is certainly an issue of concern that we discuss with trusted partners, and we have done so very frequently recently.

A huge amount of institutional effort from our side is going into countering disinformation across the entire region, as well as in the western Balkans and central Asia—the former so-called satellite states of Russia, which have a particular vulnerability to disinformation from the Kremlin. I will not go into detail about that effort, but it is a significant piece of work and will continue to be important.

The hon. Gentleman asked a good question about air defence. We have gifted thousands of units of air defence to Ukraine. There will surely be more to come. The uplift in financial support that we have announced will clearly be an issue for the Ukrainians through our gifting programme, and air defence will feature heavily in that.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on securing this important urgent question.

The brutalisation of peaceful, ordinary Georgians and the hospitalisation of opposition leader David Katsarava are utterly shameful. Can the Minister assure us that he will protest directly to the Georgian Government and call in the ambassador regarding the abuses of the public that we are seeing on our screens daily?

On Ukraine, the fall of Avdiivka at the start of this year was the shameful result of allied inaction on getting Ukraine what it needed. That falls on us. We cannot now see the same take place in Kharkiv, which is under assault for the reasons set out already in this discussion. Can the Minister please assure us that sufficient ammunition is reaching the frontline now and update us on what we are doing to procure sufficient artillery shells? Ukraine, as ever, needs us to give it enough to win and not just to survive.

[Leo Docherty]

We of course express our concerns about the direction of travel with regard to protest in Georgia. I know that the Foreign Office has made representations to the ambassador here and will continue to keep a watching brief on that issue.

My hon. Friend asks about Kharkiv. Of course, ammunition supply is a central component of our effort, both politically and in terms of what we are gifting and sourcing. We have given over 300,000 units of ammunition. However, we acknowledge that we must all, in the coalition of friendly western nations, mobilise to a far greater degree. That is why we think that initiatives coming from the Czech side and across all European and NATO partners are important. We must strain every sinew to ensure that the flow continues.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

UK Armed Forces in Middle East

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 29th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his questions and his warm welcome. He asked a series of pertinent questions, which I will seek to cover off. He asked about our efforts on maritime delivery. Clearly, the deployment of RFA Cardigan Bay is leaning into the prospect of a far greater flow of maritime aid through the Cyprus humanitarian corridor, which will seek to substantially uplift that delivered so far. That will have an important impact on the extent to which Ashdod can come into play. We make the point regularly to our Israeli colleagues that opening Ashdod would be a critical enabler of a dramatically increased flow of aid, which is seriously needed.

The right hon. Gentleman asked about the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Cardigan Bay. Colleagues will have noticed in last week’s statement to the House that there has been a very substantial uplift in defence funding. An additional £75 billion over the next six years means that morale across all three services and the Royal Fleet Auxiliary will be resilient, and higher than before. That uplift is a vote of confidence in our capabilities, of which we should all be proud—I certainly am.

I will not comment on speculation that there might be a ground role for UK forces. It would not be right for me to comment on speculation. We are very clear about the current remit. RFA Cardigan Bay is there to provide living support for the US troops involved in the construction and operational delivery of the JLOTS—joint logistics over the shore—platform.

The Defence Secretary will, as is his wont, continue to report frequently to this House, and to make oral and written statements. I am very pleased to hear that the right hon. Gentleman would like to see the Defence Secretary at the Dispatch Box more often. I will relay that desire to him when I see him. He is a busy man, but he knows that his first duty is to be in this House. His visit to the Occupied Palestinian Territories was important; his is a global role. To categorise his one visit as disproportionate, or a lack of interest, is uncharitable to say the least.

In all earnestness, we share the right hon. Gentleman’s view that a far greater flow of aid and humanitarian support is contingent on a sustainable ceasefire. This House will know that we call on Hamas to lay down their arms and release the hostages; that is the surest route to finding that sustainable ceasefire.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Defence Committee.

[Sir Jeremy Quin (Horsham) (Con)]

I commend the Government’s determination to get aid into Gaza, and I commend the work of the RAF, RFA Cardigan Bay, UK planners and the Hydrographic Office. As the Minister is aware, I would not expect him to comment on speculation, but some of the best laid and best intentioned plans can run into problems. Can he assure the House that we would only ever contemplate putting UK boots on the pier if appropriate force protection was in place?

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to the Chair of the Select Committee, who speaks with characteristic expertise. He is absolutely right that it would be improper for me, as a Government Minister, to comment on that speculation.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)]

Can the Minister confirm that the US maritime humanitarian aid corridor is required only because the Israeli Government will not allow the port of Ashdod to be used to receive the appropriate amount of aid for northern Gaza? Are the UK Government content with that stranglehold over the people of Gaza? The working assumption is that a nation will be driving trucks of aid across this American facility, but will that nation be the UK? If it is, what is the risk assessment if UK troops potentially step up for an operation that goes where American troops fear to tread? Getting aid into Gaza to alleviate the unspeakable torment of the Palestinians must be a good thing, and the professionalism and capability of UK troops is beyond question, but are Ministers seriously suggesting that the best that Euro-Atlantic allies can muster is British troops? Have Ministers forgotten how British forces operated in Palestine in the Arab rebellion of 1936? The Palestinians have not. Any risk calculation must command more robust analysis, rigour and humanitarian ambition, not simply UK Ministers’ ambitions for positive headlines.

[Leo Docherty]

Well, Mr Speaker, that was a mixed bag of questions. I will answer in the spirit of sincere debate. We should say that we are leaning into the Cypriot and Jordanian humanitarian efforts. That is very important, because those efforts need to be grounded in the region. Solutions to the problems of the region lie in the region, but clearly we have a key enabling role, along with the US. The hon. Gentleman invites me to comment on speculation in the media, which I will not do. Nor will I dwell on his reference to the history lesson from 1936. We should be upbeat and proud of the way we have significantly leaned into the delivery of humanitarian aid. That is a key component of stabilisation, and of any prospect of peace in Gaza.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We have to be careful: the question is quite framed. I am sure the Minister might want to pick part of that to answer.

[Leo Docherty]

Yes; I regard that as out of scope.

[Mr Speaker]

No, I think I do that—anyway, I call Robert Jenrick.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

No, it does not, but we continue to work very energetically and closely with our friends across Europe, including at the recently convened French summit, to ensure that the heft and military capability of all Ukraine’s allies are brought to bear in increasing Ukraine’s fighting edge.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 30th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

Ministers engage constantly with counterparts around the world, including those in the US. When it comes to the NATO response, we have seen NATO expand and grow in the last two years. Putin thought it was weak, but it is now bigger and stronger than it was in 2022.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 24th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

We are acutely aware of the challenge to which my hon. Friend alludes. We are working at pace with our mission in Pakistan and we are seized of the natural justice required and the fact that we need to do our duty to those people. That is why the full pace of our institutional effort is focused on doing just that. We look forward to keeping colleagues updated.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

My sincere condolences go out to George Lowe’s family. Consular staff remain in contact with the Cypriot authorities and the family on this case. We passed to the Cypriot authorities a letter from George’s family regarding the investigation, and have followed up for a response, most recently on 5 October. I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s advocacy in this case. We will, of course, keep in touch to see what we can do.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question and for his conveying his experience. We engage on all sides diplomatically to encourage positive progress, and we urge all leaders in the region to de-escalate and work towards peace.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the spokesperson for the Scottish National party.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

I am grateful to the hon. Friend for raising that matter. I will investigate and provide an update.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Sudan: Atrocities

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Thursday 22nd June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) for her sustained personal interest in this issue. She comes at this with a great deal of relevant experience, as the most recent UK Minister to have done travelled in the region. The House is grateful for her sustained personal interest and her questions today.

What action is being taken to prevent the violence? We are exerting all diplomatic effort, in concert with the USA and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We hope that the warring generals will see sense. Our diplomatic effort is steered through our membership of the UK core group and will promote the efforts of the African Union. We hope that, through diplomacy, we can progress this measure. We have called for a debate in the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, and I am pleased to say that we will have closed consultations in the Security Council in New York in the coming days.

My right hon. Friend asked an interesting question about the potential role of French troops. I cannot comment on that specifically, but I know that our diplomats and officials will be liaising with our allies to see what humanitarian work might be expedited by the significant French presence in the region.

Of course, I cannot comment from the Dispatch Box about future UK sanctions. All options continue to be on the table, and we will keep these issues under review. Through our diplomacy and our strong relations with the UAE and Saudi Arabia, we hope that we might influence both sides in this terrible conflict, and we think that our diplomacy with our Gulf partners has huge possibility.

I hope that my right hon. Friend the Minister for Development and Africa will engage with my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford and any civil society members she thinks are relevant to meet. We do care about Sudanese civil society. Our ambassador, Giles Lever, continues to meet where he can with members of Sudanese civil society, including youth, women and Darfuris. That reflects the scale of our long-term investment in civil society in Sudan, with humanitarian investment of some quarter of a billion pounds in the last five years.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

The hon. Lady raises a number of pertinent questions. When it comes to anticipating the upsurge in violence, we have confidence in our diplomats. It has long been a volatile situation, and I want to clearly express confidence in our diplomatic representatives, our diplomacy and our deep understanding of the region. Of course, they are not able to predict every last event, but we do have a deep reserve of regional expertise built up over many years, and we should be proud of that.

The hon. Lady asked a question about the Wagner Group. Clearly, we keep all options under review, but I agree with her assessment of the hugely damaging, detrimental and pernicious effect of the Wagner Group. That is a regional trend—it reflects the profound diminishing of Russian influence on the European continent—and we keep its activities under close watch. She also made a very good point about protection of civilians. Clearly, all our efforts are focused on pushing for a diplomatic path towards peace, because it is peace that will allow civilians to be protected and the humanitarian aid to flow.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford), who has been a steadfast advocate for the people of Sudan, for securing this urgent question. There is no question that crimes against humanity are being perpetrated in El Geneina and across Darfur. At the Foreign Affairs Committee on Tuesday, we held a session specifically on the crisis, and we heard that the fear is that diplomats are putting their trust in the men with guns rather than civilians. Given that we are the UN Security Council penholder, why are we not leading work to secure a commission of inquiry on Sudan by the Human Rights Council? That is something meaningful we could do that would make a real difference.

Secondly, please can we get a grip on our chaotic approach to dealing with the Wagner Group? We need to bring in sanctions. Can we also look at putting up balloons with allies that would provide internet access to Darfur, so that the voices that are being silenced and massacred can get out and the true scale of what is happening can be known around the world?

[Leo Docherty]

I thank my hon. Friend, the Chair of the Select Committee, for her pertinent questions. She made a very good point about alleged war crimes. We entirely agree that accountability is hugely important—it is an instrument of deterrence. That is why a lot of our work on a daily basis is about ensuring that there is institutional capacity for recording atrocities so that those responsible can be held to account.

My hon. Friend made a good point about civil society, although we have engaged and will continue to engage. On the UN route to further expedite our interest in human rights, the next step is the closed session of the Security Council, but all options are on the table with regard to the Human Rights Council. She referred to the Wagner Group, and I agree with her assessment of the threat, although not her characterisation of our policy. Of course, we keep its activities under review, and that is reflected in robust and deep institutional thinking and policymaking.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman needs a new watch.

[Leo Docherty]

I join the hon. Gentleman in thanking my right hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford for her deep expertise and experience, and for tabling this urgent question today.

We did not ignore warnings. We have absolute confidence in our diplomats, our civil servants, and those members of our institution who have deep expertise in Sudan. They do not have a crystal ball; they cannot predict every last machination in a conflict that is highly complex and extremely volatile. Diplomacy is the art of the possible, as is peacebuilding, and that is where our diplomacy, considerable humanitarian investment and expertise will be focused.

[Leo Docherty]

I cannot comment on any timescale; it would be inappropriate for me to do so.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the International Development Committee.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 13th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs (Leo Docherty)]

I think this is an issue for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, but I will look at the issue and write to the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Speaker]

Let us now come to Sir Conor Burns—congratulations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 2nd May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I can assure my hon. Friend that the High North will be at the centre of all our scientific work, and I acknowledge and praise his important role in that region.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

As I have said, I am not going to give a running commentary, but we are negotiating in good faith, we have optimism, and we are determined to secure a fair deal that recognises the researchers whom the hon. Gentleman has described. We are expectant that the negotiation will conclude in good order.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Scottish National party spokesperson.

Saudi Arabia’s Execution of Hussein Abo al-Kheir

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Thursday 16th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for describing the number of letters he has sent and pointing out that a response has been had. I am pleased that that is the case. I assure him that a range of interventions were made, as I described, at the most senior level by Lord Ahmad. That describes the energy with which he has made these representations, so we can be confident that a great deal of energy was expended in that effort. Of course, we cannot speculate as to the particulars of the case. My right hon. Friend mentioned the apparent spike in cases. Again, it might not be useful to speculate, but it might be that a pre-Ramadan surge of cases is adding to the apparent uptick. I understand that the moratorium relates to drug use rather than drug smuggling, and this case pertained to an allegation of and conviction for smuggling rather than use, which I think is relevant. It is not useful to speculate further on the particulars of this case, but we do make clear our continued opposition to the use of the death penalty, and our close working relationship with the Saudi authorities allows us to do just that in a way that allows us to appeal for clemency.

[Mr Speaker]

We come to the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

I think history shows that energetic junior Ministers can make a difference in terms of building relationships, but of course our alliance with Saudi Arabia is of such import that it merits a great deal of senior attention, which is why it gets it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I am sure the Minister will want to respond.

[Leo Docherty]

I am happy to clarify. If that is the case, I am very happy to accept that clarification.

Governor of Xinjiang: UK Visit

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Thursday 9th February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful for the constructive tone and characteristic interest that the hon. Lady shows. Is this meeting essential? We judge that this might be an opportunity to send a very strong message to someone who is involved in the governance of Xinjiang. That is at the heart of the judgment that was made about this opportunity.

The hon. Lady asked when Ministers were aware. I know that Ministers were aware in the usual, routine way and made a judgment that, on balance, it was useful to endorse the prospect of officials engaging with this individual.

The hon. Lady makes a good point about the risk of moral injury. It is important to say that, with regard to this specific proposition, FCDO officials were keen to invite Uyghur human rights groups in the UK so that they have an opportunity to express their views to this individual as a means of delivering a very strong message of condemnation. That judgment was at the heart of the decision, but she makes a good point about moral injury.

The hon. Lady asked whether the invitation will be rescinded and, of course, it is not an invitation. The FCDO did not invite this individual. Our expectation is that he is travelling on a diplomatic passport. I am grateful to have been able to answer these questions, and I am grateful for her constructive spirit.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think they will be coming to Westminster, as we would have to give permission. Let us not open that debate.

[Leo Docherty]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns) for her long-standing interest. She rightly mentions the suffering of women and children, specifically in Xinjiang, which has moved us all. Our judgment is that Erkin Tuniyaz is not travelling because of an invitation from the Foreign Office. Given that our expectation is that he is travelling on a diplomatic passport and will be here, because he is not sanctioned—

[Leo Docherty]

Because he is not sanctioned, we therefore judge that this is a useful opportunity to deliver an extremely strong message to this individual. Of course, colleagues will note that there is a differential approach with regard to the US sanctions regime.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am in the Chair. Members are meant to speak through the Chair, not face towards the back of the Chamber.

[Leo Docherty]

The judgment of Ministers is that such opportunities are useful in offering a chance to express a very forthright condemnation of the outrages in Xinjiang. I think this reflects the Government’s policy of robust pragmatism when it comes to China, which is at the heart of our wanting to continue such dialogue.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

That is more for the Minister to answer, even though I am tempted.

[Leo Docherty]

I think this is an opportunity to send a robust message from our side about everything we judge completely outrageous and unacceptable in Xinjiang. We therefore judge that there is utility in the prospect of officials meeting this individual.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

While the Minister is here he may want to put the record straight.

[Leo Docherty]

I am happy to accept that clarification, Mr Speaker.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Tuesday 8th November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am very pleased to be able to provide an answer. The money is still frozen in a UK bank account. The administrative work is being done and a licence is being applied for, but we hope it is on the start of its journey to Ukraine to help the people where they need help.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Ukraine: UK and NATO Military Commitment

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 20th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak to some of my right hon. Friend’s points. He said that Russia is not losing in Ukraine, with which I would take issue. I think that Russia is losing and that it was losing from the point of invasion. Its catastrophic losses in the west of the country and the way that it has had to refocus in the east describe that strategic loss, so I disagree with him on that.

Our domestic response will always be threat-based. My right hon. Friend made some remarks about whether NATO forces should have been deployed to Ukraine in anticipation of the Russian invasion. Our judgment is—and collectively, everyone would judge—that we got the balance right between providing reassurance and effect, while avoiding the direct conflict that would have resulted immediately from putting NATO forces directly into Ukraine.

As I said, we are a threat-based organisation. In making the argument for defence expenditure, we need to understand that there are three basic points of context that I ask my right hon. Friend to take note of. First, we do everything as part of the NATO alliance. We are one of a 30-member defensive alliance—soon to be 32—and because of that, we are a great deal stronger than we are separately. One of the significant lessons for the Russian military machine is how exposed it is by being alone. We are stronger as an alliance; as an alliance, we massively outnumber any kind of effect the Russians can bring to bear.

Secondly, it is important to recognise that we acknowledged the significant threat posed by Russia as part of our defence Command Paper, which came out of the integrated review and was released in March 2021; many right hon. and hon. Members will have read it. Page 5, paragraph 1.4 leads with the fact that

“Russia continues to pose the greatest nuclear, conventional military and sub-threshold threat to European security.”

In terms of our doctrine and our response, that is not new to UK national defence. That is a really important contextual thing to understand.

Thirdly, that is why we are making good use of the £24-billion uplift that we have had under this Government, which is driving forward the agility, deployability and lethality that we need in the new global context. Manifold lessons will be drawn from the outrageous Russian invasion of Ukraine, including the vulnerability of armour and of large bodies of troops; the potency of technology and remote fires; and the urgent importance of having a fully modernised military with match-fit technology. That is what the integrated review and the defence Command Paper do.

We have more money than we have ever had—£24 billion more than we would have had otherwise. We will always keep things under review, but we should be confident that doctrinally and militarily, in terms of kit and equipment, we are on the right lines.

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the shadow Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

I am grateful for my right hon. Friend’s question. The answer is yes. I note, with particular regard to the long-standing nature of his interest in the issue, his comments about overall defence spending.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

We acknowledge Turkey’s concerns. Work on the matter is led by the Foreign Secretary and others, and I am sure that it will be on the agenda next week in Madrid. My expectation is that those concerns will be resolved in the interests of the alliance as a whole.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis). May I thank him for doing the reading this morning?

Falklands War: 40th Anniversary

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 13th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Leo Docherty)]

It is a singular honour for me to have the privilege to respond to the debate. The House is moved by and very grateful for the contribution made by the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) and I am glad that we also had contributions from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), my hon. Friends the Members for Brecon and Radnorshire (Fay Jones) and for Bracknell (James Sunderland), the hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) and my hon. Friend the Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond), who reflected on themes such as the important role of the Royal Navy and the remarkably austere conditions in the Falkland Islands. I was also pleased to hear about the Falklands bike ride to Aldershot by Gus and Angela—something that I will look out for this week.

Let me pick up some of the themes considered by the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central. First, there is the theme of commemoration. We are all making a collective effort to ensure that this is not a forgotten war. I am pleased that over the past 74 days there have been some very significant commemorative events. Back in April, I was honoured to commemorate the start of hostilities in St Paul’s cathedral with members of the South Atlantic Medal Association. You yourself, Mr Speaker, held a magnificent beating the retreat last week. All those various activities will culminate in the national moment of commemoration at the arboretum tomorrow. I will be privileged to attend that very significant event, and Members from both sides of the House will also attend. Of course, all Members will attend events in their own constituencies. It will be my particular privilege to meet a large group of Parachute Regiment veterans at the home of the British Army in Aldershot for a very special moment this coming Saturday.

The fact that 255 men were killed in action, seven ships were sunk, three Falkland Islanders were killed and 30,000 men and women served and received the South Atlantic medal gives us some sense of the scale of all this. We must put on record very clearly our sincere thanks to all those forces in all three domains, whether land, sea or air. In commemoration of the important role played by the Falkland Islands civilians, we are very pleased that city status has been granted to Stanley by Her Majesty the Queen in this jubilee year. That is a fitting addition to the programme of commemoration and celebration.

I think we were all moved by the reflections of the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central, particularly about Sergeant McKay VC. That has a broader relevance— what I would describe as the remarkable airborne ideal. The example shown by and the reputation and commitment of Ian McKay VC had an impact on this generation like no other. Like the hon. and gallant Member, I am sure, it was reading accounts of Mount Longdon, Goose Green and Tumbledown that first drew me to an interest in the Brigade of Guards and subsequently airborne forces. The airborne ideal had a very fine expression during the Falklands conflict, but it is broader than just the Parachute Regiment. It applied to the remarkable men of 3 Commando Brigade, 40, 45 and 42 Commando, the 5th Infantry Brigade, the Welsh Guards and the Scots Guards. It applied to the 1st and 7th Gurkhas, who performed so valiantly on Mount William. It applied to all attached arms of Royal Engineers, gunners, air defence, artillery, Royal Navy, Fleet Air Arm and Royal Air Force. It was a remarkable feat of combined arms, because no one arm would have been successful without the contribution of the other. In a simple metaphor, we might see the land forces—the Army—as the fist that was launched by the Royal Navy to liberate the Falkland Islands while being protected by the remarkable heroics in the air of the Fleet Air Arm and the Royal Air Force.

We were pleased as a House that the hon. and gallant Member for Barnsley Central was able to read in complete length the citation of Sergeant Ian McKay. I thought that was a very important moment. I should mention, in parallel, a source of inspiration for me, one which many people who have come into the military in the past 20 years have. On my first day at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, I saw my first company sergeant major, Mark Cape, who was there in his Blues jumper, wearing his South Atlantic medal. It was the sight of that medal and hearing later about his experiences as an 18-year-old guardsman, fighting his way victoriously up the scree and crags of Tumbledown, that at that point provided such a deep source of inspiration. After my very short and entirely undistinguished military career, it has nevertheless continued to be a source of deep inspiration. I am therefore grateful for the hon. and gallant Gentleman’s similar reflections on the role of Ian McKay in his military career, and I am sure that all those who have served would have similar experiences and similar points of reference because of the formational nature of the Falklands war.

Drawing to a conclusion, I want to touch on two other enduring lessons of the Falklands conflict that are particularly in our minds during this 40th anniversary. The first is the legacy of human cost. I mentioned the South Atlantic medal, and we have some 30,000 awarded. As Churchill said:

“A medal glitters, but it also casts a shadow.”—[Official Report, 22 March 1944; Vol. 398, c. 872.]

That is the case for the 255 British service personnel and the three Falkland Islands civilians killed, but also for the 649 Argentinians who were killed, because behind every casualty statistic, there is a family. For that family, their experience and their burden started in 1982, and it did not end. Earlier last month, I was privileged to meet the families of those killed in the Falklands conflict in St Paul’s, and I am looking forward to seeing some of those airborne families again in Aldershot this Saturday. That is a very significant, enduring impact. We must always remember the human legacy and the human cost of war. That theme will be reflected in events over the next week.

The last lesson I want to draw is a simple one, which is very relevant today, about the power of resolve in military affairs, and the power of what we can achieve when we conduct combined arms warfare properly. The Falklands conflict demonstrates all that is good and best about the power of British military determination and what it can do when it is combined with a very clear and resolute foreign policy in the interest of freedom and as a guardian of freedom. In 1982, our Prime Minister at the time said:

“peace, freedom and justice are only to be found where people are prepared to defend them.”

We have heard about the men and women who were prepared to defend them in 1982. That is still the case, because they set an example to us all, for which we are eternally grateful.

[Mr Speaker]

It was a long time before a Speaker visited the Falklands—in fact, I was the first to do so. I thank the hon. Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) for making the point about the conditions: I had never seen snow or frost like it. When I got there and saw the moving situation of where Colonel H. Jones fell defending democracy, it was unbelievable. I will never be moved in that way again, and to lay the wreath was so important for me. On my previous visit, I went to Mount Longdon and saw where Sergeant McKay fell as well. There is nothing more moving than seeing, in the worst weather conditions ever, what we had to do to fight for the rights of the people and the Falkland islanders. John David Stroud, my constituent—well, he was not at the time; I am not old enough—died on HMS Glamorgan, so we all have a connection, we all know somebody, and we all want to unite. There is no better time for the House than when we are brought together at times such as this—a very important 40th anniversary. I remind hon. Members that the service for the Falklands will be in St Margaret’s after Prime Minister’s questions. I want as many hon. Members as possible to turn up and take part.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 13th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned Fighting With Pride; I commend its activity and rightful advocacy in this area. I entirely agree with him and I am pleased to say that there is a highly credible and eminent individual who will chair the review. My hopeful expectation is that we will make the formal announcement next week to coincide with Armed Forces Week.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister, Luke Pollard.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

I would like to acknowledge the importance of such gatherings, which I have seen regularly in my constituency. I thank my hon. Friend for his support of that hub. If I find myself near Southport in the near future, I would be delighted to visit.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

--- Later in debate ---

[Leo Docherty]

We take these issues seriously, because we recruit the soldier but we retain the family. That is why we are putting record sums of investment into SFA. In the last seven years, we have invested more than £936 million in SFA improvements, and in the coming year we will invest £176 million in SFA. We are putting our money where our mouth is.

[Mr Speaker]

To ask the same question as the other one, I call Kevan Jones.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Thursday 9th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Leo Docherty)]

We are supporting the private sector by giving a national insurance contribution holiday to those such as Centrica that employ service leavers, and we commend them for doing so. We know that military service gives people fantastic skills for life.

[Mr Speaker]

We now come to the urgent question. I have allowed the sub judice waiver before, and that will continue.

Ukraine: UK Military Support

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Wednesday 11th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

My right hon. and gallant Friend makes a very good point: we have seen the woeful inadequacy of the Russian military. I do not know whether he was able to listen to the Defence Secretary’s speech at the National Army Museum earlier this week, but it laid out the operational failings at all levels across the Russian army that have so painfully resulted in such significant casualties. He makes an interesting point about hypersonic missiles. I will not speculate at the Dispatch Box about future capabilities. However, a lot of this sort of work is done in Farnborough in my constituency by the defence industry there, and my right hon. Friend can rest assured that at the very heart of our defence proposition in the integrated review is energetic and significant investment in cutting-edge defensive technologies.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Thursday 31st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Leo Docherty)]

Veterans make brilliant employees, which is why employment is at the heart of our veterans strategy. It is also why we have introduced national insurance contribution holidays for those who employ veterans and a guaranteed job interview for veterans who want to join the civil service. Of course, I join my hon. Friend in thanking the veterans in his constituency who have so generously contributed to our collective effort on behalf of Ukraine. I also thank him for the work he does in concert with his veteran community in Banff and Buchan. If time allows, I would be delighted to visit his very beautiful constituency.

[Mr Speaker]

The House of Commons has signed the covenant, and the House of Commons Service is open to veterans.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 28th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I do agree that it is wrong and I look forward to updating the hon. Gentleman personally about that case in particular.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister, Stephanie Peacock.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 21st February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

I should put it on record that Wolverhampton has a long and very proud tradition of people in the armed forces. What we can do is point out that recruiting is undergoing constant improvement. I invite my hon. Friend to visit her Army recruitment centre on Queen Street in Wolverhampton to celebrate the amazing careers on offer for young people.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 24th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty]

We support service personnel transitioning out and seeking to start their own businesses and be self-employed through the career transition partnership, which is a hugely successful initiative. We recognise that veterans bring some of the key skills to successful self-employment: initiative, discipline and the tendency to work extremely hard. I think overall the support offered by the career transition partnership is a very positive story.

[Mr Speaker]

I welcome shadow Minister Stephanie Peacock to her place.

Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Wednesday 21st April 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Leo Docherty)]

I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments (a) to (o) in lieu.

Lords amendment 2, and Government motion to disagree.

Lords amendment 3, and Government consequential amendment (a).

Lords amendment 4, and Government motion to disagree.

Lords amendment 5, and Government motion to disagree.

Lords amendments 6 to 8.

[Leo Docherty]

Before moving to the main meat of my speech, I wish to formally put on record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer) for his fantastic work on veterans’ issues for many years and his work in getting the Bill to this point. I know that he will share my satisfaction that, with a following wind, it will make further progress today.

Importantly, although it is not in the scope of the debate, I would like to confirm to the House that a Bill will soon come forward from the Northern Ireland Office that will protect our Northern Ireland veterans of Operation Banner and address the legacy of the troubles. I know that this will be of sincere interest to many Members here today.

Defence

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Monday 18th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty (Aldershot) (Con)]

I am grateful for this opportunity to speak in the debate today. I am pleased that the Minister chose to use this opportunity to lay out the challenge of transformation that our national defence faces in this era. I have been pleased to see the outline that the Ministry of Defence has given this in the modernising defence programme, following the doctrine of the need to mobilise, to modernise and to transform. I think we are reassured that this document—the modernising defence programme—is a clear statement of intent that takes us forward to the comprehensive spending review and really goes into battle for a strong national defence. I for one am right behind it, but the proof will be in the pudding when it comes to how much money is secured in the comprehensive spending review. If we want what the document describes as the Joint Force 2025—a maritime task group, a deployable land division with three brigades including a strike brigade, a properly resourced combat air group and a special forces task group—we will have to pay for it. We will also have to pay for the equipment programme, which involves some excellent new platforms but also has some significant financial holes. As I have said, the proof will be in the pudding.

As well as needing to pay for all this, there are other things that we will need to do if we are to make the vision in this document a reality. We must ensure value for money, and that is about ensuring that we use big data to make the management of our military much more efficient, especially in areas such as fleet management and the management of large numbers of people. We have to use big data in order to become more efficient, and we need to reform the way in which we do defence procurement. We also need to win the data war. We have heard from the Minister about the cyber threats that we face, and we need to up our game in that regard. We need to acknowledge that the world is connected in a way that it has never been connected before. That is not just a matter of defence; it is also a matter of offensive cyber.

We also need to adopt a global posture. The global deployments in Bahrain, in other middle eastern countries and around the world are a force multiplier, and I am proud that soldiers from my constituency are involved. The Scots Guards are deployed in Cyprus, the Grenadier Guards are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and 4 Rifles—a specialised infantry battalion that is absolutely match fit and purpose built for engagements that involve the training of foreign troops—are deployed right around the world. They are a terrific force multiplier, and that is something we should be proud of.

Alarmingly, the document does not mention our defence response to China. That is a central challenge that we will have to grapple with in this new era of transformation. I invite the Minister to mention that in his closing remarks. Whether we like it or not—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Hopefully not, because it is not in the debate. I have allowed the hon. Gentleman to carry on, but he must not drag the Minister into something that is not covered in the debate.

[Leo Docherty]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Moving on swiftly—we will also bring our allies with us. We are committed to NATO, but we need to demonstrate that commitment by exercising at scale. Perhaps we could do a “brigade plus” exercise in Poland to show resolve against threats on our eastern flank. We need to nurture sovereign industries, such as the ones in my constituency, which in turn nurture incredible defence innovation. We also need to get the legal framework right for foreign deployments. If we are to have a military that deploys with confidence to inflict violence on our behalf, soldiers need to be able to do that without fear of being pursued through the courts on their return.

I want to turn to the central argument in all of this. It is the argument, which we need to win, about hard power. The Minister mentioned this, and it is the central argument that we will be making as we move forward to the comprehensive spending review. We have been somewhat bruised by the past 18 years of the war on terror, which has informed this generation’s understanding of conflicts abroad, and it is easy to think that the public have a limited appetite for foreign intervention or foreign deployments. However, I actually believe that the reverse is true.

The British military conducted itself in Iraq and Afghanistan with such remarkable professionalism and courage that, whatever one thinks about the politics, there is wholehearted support among the British public and an acknowledgement that our armed forces can and will do a remarkable job on our behalf when deployed. There is absolutely no hesitation at all among the British public when it comes to supporting increased defence expenditure, as the hon. Member for Chesterfield (Toby Perkins) noted. That argument is wrong, we need to debunk that myth, and we need a new commitment to a fully funded national defence in the comprehensive spending review. I look forward to making that argument in a clear, resolute and confident manner for the sake of a strong national defence in this great era of transformation.

Finance (No. 3) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Committee: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Monday 19th November 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. May I share my wisdom with you both? The debate is about the clauses and new clauses before us. Members tried to go down this route once before. The new clauses are quite clear, and the clauses are quite clear. I am sure Mr Docherty wishes to stick to that, and I am sure Members will not tempt him again.

[Leo Docherty]

You are absolutely right, Sir Lindsay. I certainly will not be tempted to stray from the clauses and new clauses that we are considering.

It is, of course, important to consider the approach to ownership of private property that the shadow Chancellor and his party laid out last year in a document that Members can obtain from the Library, entitled “Alternative Models of Ownership”.

[Leo Docherty]

It is relevant because it puts renationalisation at the front and centre of the Labour party’s economic policy. Regrettably, there are no figures in the document. That is because the cost of renationalisation, calculated by the Centre for Policy Studies, would be £176 billion: £6,471 for every single household. That is a deeply alarming fact.

That approach was given further voice when, just last week, the shadow Chancellor made a speech at an event hosted by Red Pepper. He discussed his broad economic approach, and his approach to tax and private property. He promised that the Labour manifesto would be even more radical than the last. This is relevant because, referring to Labour’s approach to the private ownership of land, the shadow Chancellor said:

“One of the big issues we’re now talking about is land, how do we go about looking at collective ownership of land”.

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Sir Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. We have strayed completely from where we should be. If the hon. Gentleman wants a debate on the Opposition, he needs to wait until the right moment. Today is not that moment. This is about the new clauses that we are discussing, and what he is talking about is not relevant. I have allowed him a little leeway, but we have now strayed too far. I would like him to concentrate on the new clauses.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lindsay Hoyle and Leo Docherty

Committee: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 21st November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Leo Docherty (Aldershot) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I should like to inform the House that on 11 and 17 October I tabled written questions in which I mistakenly omitted to include a reference to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests, which includes a visit, in September this year, to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, sponsored by the Foreign Ministry of that country. I am pleased to be able to put that on record, Mr Deputy Speaker, and I am grateful for your patience.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

That has been corrected.